Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

[selassie]

I think Welbeck will always be a useful option because of his athleticism, he just needs to explode like Sturridge did really in terms of goal scoring. I was also pretty disappointed with his return last year, the worrying thing was that you couldn't even accuse him of missing sitters because he was never in those positions to begin with, I guess that comes from learning the role and knowing when to make the runs. Some of the goals he's scored for us and also England have the hallmarks of a decent striker though, so I think he could potentially surprise us.

That's what I was hoping for with Welbeck, a "Sturridge" type transistion. Also agree that he never got himself into the right positions, but as you said he has done pretty well for England albeit against slightly weak opposition, the potential is there though.

[Dein-machine]

:lol:

See? That's how WUMming should be done.

Take your word for it - you're the expert.

[Letters]

I tend to WUM by accident by being rational and not having man-child tantrums every 5 minutes.
If that winds others up then so be it. :shrug:

[Dein-machine]

I think there's an accident in a lot of your posts.

[BOBN]

Sturridge didnt suddenly get good, he was an exceptional talent at 15/16. Like obvious future international good.

[PGFC]

I tend to WUM*

There we have it.

*may be edited/misquoted and taken out of context but if it's good enough for the rest of GW it suits us well.

[Kano]

£25m! We can afford him no problem.

But haven't we had enough with 'great young talent? Our squad is stacked with guys still with something to prove. That's why we've got Ox, Wellbeck and Theo still figuring what they are good at, Ramsey still not finding his role, Jack still developing, Coq with a under a years experience, Bellerin still learning his role, Gibbs underdeveloped. I agree we needed to look outside of just a striker if the market was a bare as mentioned but we need certified talent that can come straight in a make a difference.

[Syn]

-----------------Cech------------------

Debuchy----Mert----Kos------Monreal

----------Coquelin--Ramsey----------

Bellerin----------Ozil-------------Ox

----------------Sanchez---------------

[selassie]

Sturridge didnt suddenly get good, he was an exceptional talent at 15/16. Like obvious future international good.

Welbeck was a big talent too from a young age. TBF when he broke through at United under Fungus he did look quite a talent at one point. I agree Sturridge didn't suddenly get good and I am in no way suggesting that Welbeck will improve to Sturridge level but he certainly has all the right attributes to mould IMO. If Welbeck produced numbers similar to Ade did then we would have a very good player on our hands.

[Bumble]

I like welbeck, he has the right attitude and can score important goals like the United cup one. He does need to be more clinical but I think that can be taught. He is more dynamic than Giroud and will harass defenders and with him and Sanchez doing that it would put the opposition under pressure straight away. I do think Welbeck could get 20 goals a season fitness permitting too. I think Wenger said he will be back in training after the international break.

[Syn]

He's got a few things going for him but unfortunately it looks like he'll be chasing his first touch for the rest of his career.

Also: I like Welbeck. Even did in his Man Utd days. Great attitude and athletic ability. Doesn't make him a good footballer though.

[Ollie the Optimist]

A manager who expects the bulk of goals to come from midfield rather than his forwards :rolleyes:

Here's an idea, why not sign a player who can get you 25-30 goals up front, then any goals from midfield are a bonus, he needs his head checked with some of his theories, he's been obsessed with goals from midfield, goalscoring midfielders are few and far between and we don't really seem to have any, even when we did we had a top striker who would get loads of goals up front.

I can still remember when he first came out with this 1 striker formation where he expected the 5 midfielders to score the bulk of the goals, it never worked then and won't work now, it always made us look toothless and watching the midfielders miss chance after chance was painful, but then he's always been totally obsessed with midfielders (well ever since his winning teams, which it could be perceived achieved the trophy haul due to leadership on the field with minimal input from the sideless), he's been overloading us with midfielders for years now, hence the reason we stick central players out wide and barely have any natural wingers.

I don't know where you have been for the past year, but he did do that. He signed this bloke called Alexis Sanchez, who scored 25 goals for us last season.

[I am invisible]

If we can get 30 goals out of lazy, egotistical donkey like Adebayor, then we must be able to do something with Welbeck! I don't expect he'll ever be a super-sharp shooter, who can arrow the ball into any corner he likes at 100mph, but I do think there's something there that we can turn into something decent?

I really think he'd benefit from someone taking him to one side and telling him to simplify his shooting a bit, and concentrate more on using his momentum and timing to better effect. If we can get him doing things like arriving for crosses and cut-backs at the right time, rounding the keeper, getting unexpected / early shots off when the keeper's not ready, or has shifted his weight the wrong way, then most of the time he'll probably be able to get away with almost passing the ball into the net? Henry was another level entirely, but how many bread-and-butter goals did he used to get like that?

[Syn]

I think even that relies on natural ability to a certain extent. he doesn't have that strikers instinct. He can do a decent job but no better than Giroud, which doesn't help us. He is probably best on either flank where his workrate can be useful. That period where Giroud was injured, we got a fair few goals through Welbeck and Sanchez nicking the ball off the opposition in their own half. It's not quite the same as having a top class forward though.

Our best bet is sticking Sanchez upfront. He can get 30+ goals and contribute to the team in the way that others like Walcott can't.

[Power n Glory]

I like welbeck, he has the right attitude and can score important goals like the United cup one. He does need to be more clinical but I think that can be taught. He is more dynamic than Giroud and will harass defenders and with him and Sanchez doing that it would put the opposition under pressure straight away. I do think Welbeck could get 20 goals a season fitness permitting too. I think Wenger said he will be back in training after the international break.

I really don't know. He struggles to get 10 goals a season and that Utd goal was a gift. He had 9 back to back games in the league as striker and could only manage 2 goals. One against Villa and the other against Hull City. In that 9 game run we played our main rivals, City, Chelsea, Utd, Spurs and he didn't score or get an assist in any of them. We didn't win any either. Lost against Chelsea and Utd, drew against Spurs and City. We even lost against Swansea and drew against Hull City. He got the goal equalizer against Hull at least.

Champs League he made 4 appearances. 3 goals against Galatasaray but nothing against Dortmund or both Anderlecht ties. From September to late November he was our main striker. Something like 14 back to back games in all comps. 5 goals and 2 assists. He got recalled again as striker and FA Cup was gifted a goal from Utd but he was having a poor game if we're being honest. Had another chance in the semi's against Reading and it went to extra time without a goal from him. I'm not convinced.

[Dein-machine]

I think even that relies on natural ability to a certain extent. he doesn't have that strikers instinct. He can do a decent job but no better than Giroud, which doesn't help us. He is probably best on either flank where his workrate can be useful. That period where Giroud was injured, we got a fair few goals through Welbeck and Sanchez nicking the ball off the opposition in their own half. It's not quite the same as having a top class forward though.

Our best bet is sticking Sanchez upfront. He can get 30+ goals and contribute to the team in the way that others like Walcott can't.

Tbh I think Wenger bought Sanchez with him being our "Suarez" in mind. His first couple of games after joining were with him up top pre-season but without success. When we played him deeper, we saw not only his ability to drive at defenses but also his work-rate in winning the ball back. Personally, I'd like to see it given a try but I would want Ox & Theo playing wide, driving at defenses, getting in behind the full backs. Either this or Sanch & Ox playing wide of Welbeck in the hope that this somehow clicks. Just think its crazy that we have to worry about trying to find a striker when we are supposedly one of Europe's top clubs & our manager has been her forever. The striker situation should have been dealt with when RVP left. He was world class, we needed to replace with world class.

[Globalgunner]

There is something there with Welbeck, he has the tools but not the finesse. My problem is who is going to teach him to be a dead eye assassin. Boro Primorac?. Who has made great strides in quality amongst our front players in a decade. Only RVP and he had been marked for greatness early on. Given how poorly Walcott has progressed over the years i have scant hope that Welbeck will get there. Chuba Akpom seems ahead of him at the same age. I hope he stays on loan for a few more seasons at other clubs, rather than coming back to stagnate in our unfit for purpose training regime.
Now if we could get Bergkamp, Henry or Wright to come and work with the strikers then maybe. But not likely with Wenger in charge of all things Arsenal.

[Dein-machine]

Love to see Henry back at the club but Wenger would not want a big personality alongside him who may open his mouth in relation to the continuous mistakes Wenger makes. Much better to have Bouldy who I think is now a mute coz i never see him speak.
Can you imagine the confidence our guys would get with sessions from Henry - for the likes of Akpon it would be superb. Henry will know the best coaches in the game, coaching a style of play to suit us going forward which needs to be updated on Wengers system that very team knows how to play against. The rest of it is down to picking the team, motivating the players, working on tactical stuff & buying the best players to fit into the system. People on here will say Henry would be a risk as manager - I disagree. He has played football at the highest level & won all of the top club honours far more recently than when Wenger was having success. We need a modern approach, not another dinosaur that used to win things years ago.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Love to see Henry back at the club but Wenger would not want a big personality alongside him who may open his mouth in relation to the continuous mistakes Wenger makes. Much better to have Bouldy who I think is now a mute coz i never see him speak.
Can you imagine the confidence our guys would get with sessions from Henry - for the likes of Akpon it would be superb. Henry will know the best coaches in the game, coaching a style of play to suit us going forward which needs to be updated on Wengers system that very team knows how to play against. The rest of it is down to picking the team, motivating the players, working on tactical stuff & buying the best players to fit into the system. People on here will say Henry would be a risk as manager - I disagree. He has played football at the highest level & won all of the top club honours far more recently than when Wenger was having success. We need a modern approach, not another dinosaur that used to win things years ago.

Henry is currently working at the club, doing work to get his badges. Think he is mainly working with the youth sides, or at least that is what i read, but he is at the training ground working with the club.

[Syn]

Top players don't necessarily make good coaches. Many examples but take Tony Adams. Henry seems like bit of an idiot, unfortunately. Talks a ridiculous amount of shit. Understandable, it came very naturally to him but he's not going to be someone who can teach limited players like Welbz to get to their best.

If we're going ex-players, the one who usually talks intelligently about the game is Keown. Important to have some extra perspective that the Sky clowns don't have and he is a lot more insightful. Would like to see him take on management/coaching elsewhere first.

[Power n Glory]

There is something there with Welbeck, he has the tools but not the finesse. My problem is who is going to teach him to be a dead eye assassin. Boro Primorac?. Who has made great strides in quality amongst our front players in a decade. Only RVP and he had been marked for greatness early on. Given how poorly Walcott has progressed over the years i have scant hope that Welbeck will get there. Chuba Akpom seems ahead of him at the same age. I hope he stays on loan for a few more seasons at other clubs, rather than coming back to stagnate in our unfit for purpose training regime.
Now if we could get Bergkamp, Henry or Wright to come and work with the strikers then maybe. But not likely with Wenger in charge of all things Arsenal.

I really don't know how you rate Welbeck over Walcott. I don't see it at all. Welbeck had no effect on the way we played when up front. Still can't play him in behind the striker because his movement is poor and his link up play wasn't that great either. He just seemed anonymous for most games. I'll give him a chance over Giroud based on potential but I don't think he's better than Giroud. For most of our players there is something there. Even Sanogo. If that kid could sharpen up his first touches and have more zip in shot we'd have our man. His link up play with the team is very good, it's just the other areas. With Welbeck, I can't say he excels at anything besides being a nice lad. He works hard but it's nothing exceptional.

Also, speaking of development, there is a reason why Sturridge left Chelsea and Welbeck Utd. They were tired of playing on the flanks and weren't progressing. It's a similar story for Theo but he's actually progressed as a player in that position but not to his full potential. I don't know what striker in this day and age gets his training on the flanks and I think Wenger has led him wrong.

[Globalgunner]

Top players don't necessarily make good coaches. Many examples but take Tony Adams. Henry seems like bit of an idiot, unfortunately. Talks a ridiculous amount of shit. Understandable, it came very naturally to him but he's not going to be someone who can teach limited players like Welbz to get to their best.

If we're going ex-players, the one who usually talks intelligently about the game is Keown. Important to have some extra perspective that the Sky clowns don't have and he is a lot more insightful. Would like to see him take on management/coaching elsewhere first.

We are talking about coaches, not managers. Two very different things, which you seem to have confused yourself over. How the heck is a defender Keown going to coach Welbeck to be a better striker.

[Syn]

We are talking about coaches, not managers. Two very different things, which you seem to have confused yourself over. How the heck is a defender Keown going to coach Welbeck to be a better striker.

Ah. Fair enough. Not convinced Henry would make a good coach in any case, for the reasons I outlined. if he's got a bit more to his insight that he's hiding from the sky cameras then fine. He comes across as a thick twat on there though. Would sooner listen to Neville.

[Globalgunner]

I really don't know how you rate Welbeck over Walcott. I don't see it at all. Welbeck had no effect on the way we played when up front. Still can't play him in behind the striker because his movement is poor and his link up play wasn't that great either. He just seemed anonymous for most games. I'll give him a chance over Giroud based on potential but I don't think he's better than Giroud. For most of our players there is something there. Even Sanogo. If that kid could sharpen up his first touches and have more zip in shot we'd have our man. His link up play with the team is very good, it's just the other areas. With Welbeck, I can't say he excels at anything besides being a nice lad. He works hard but it's nothing exceptional.

Also, speaking of development, there is a reason why Sturridge left Chelsea and Welbeck Utd. They were tired of playing on the flanks and weren't progressing. It's a similar story for Theo but he's actually progressed as a player in that position but not to his full potential. I don't know what striker in this day and age gets his training on the flanks and I think Wenger has led him wrong.

as bad as England are, Welbeck has scored goals playing for them. Even ye old England manager is not stupid enough to play Walcott as a striker. This is not a shout out for Welbeck but he would be a better coice as striker than Walcott. he has almost all of Walcotts pace with a physical presence added. He needs to add composure which both he and walcott both lack. Giroud could be a monster player, but he is not a warrior, gets easily cowed by defenders, has no pace , no tricks and is one footed. He is also not going to get any better with age, Welbeck might.

[Power n Glory]

Top players don't necessarily make good coaches. Many examples but take Tony Adams. Henry seems like bit of an idiot, unfortunately. Talks a ridiculous amount of shit. Understandable, it came very naturally to him but he's not going to be someone who can teach limited players like Welbz to get to their best.

If we're going ex-players, the one who usually talks intelligently about the game is Keown. Important to have some extra perspective that the Sky clowns don't have and he is a lot more insightful. Would like to see him take on management/coaching elsewhere first.

He should have stayed on. He was working with our defence during that CL final run and when we had the best defensive record. Bould's had a positive impact on our defence as well.

I don't think Henry can work miracles with our strikers but I think he could teach them a thing or two about time in the box, not rushing chances and getting a good clean strike on the ball. It's very simple but was listening to Ian Wright talk about striking technique and I think we need a coach that can show these boys how to sort their feet out. Welbeck and Sanogo are the worse and look like Bambi on ice when it comes to sorting their feet out. Gervinho had the same problem.

[fakeyank]

We needed to spend proper money on a proper striker. I don't know whether we failed to because we didn't try enough, because the players weren't available, or didn't want to come to us or whether Wenger is simply putting his trust in the players he has. Either way on his head be it if we fail to challenge again, but signing another player with potential, or signing another 'Welbeck' for the sake of having another player wasn't the answer.

Do you seriously believe the things you say? Or do you have this standpoint just so GW stays alive? I understand if its the later because as a mod, this is a fantastic line of thinking.. if its the former, then I dont even know what to say!

[Globalgunner]

Ah. Fair enough. Not convinced Henry would make a good coach in any case, for the reasons I outlined. if he's got a bit more to his insight that he's hiding from the sky cameras then fine. He comes across as a thick twat on there though. Would sooner listen to Neville.

You are expecting a bit too much from TV personalities. Not everyone can be like Roy Keane, who doesnt give a FK and seems to hate every other inhabitant of this planet. Next thing youll be telling me you expect politicians to say what they really think.

[Dein-machine]

Top players don't necessarily make good coaches. Many examples but take Tony Adams. Henry seems like bit of an idiot, unfortunately. Talks a ridiculous amount of shit. Understandable, it came very naturally to him but he's not going to be someone who can teach limited players like Welbz to get to their best.

If we're going ex-players, the one who usually talks intelligently about the game is Keown. Important to have some extra perspective that the Sky clowns don't have and he is a lot more insightful. Would like to see him take on management/coaching elsewhere first.

Top players don't necessarily make bad coaches either - doesn't mean Henry won't be a good manager just because you think he's an idiot - he speaks quite highly of you.

[Özim]

I don't know where you have been for the past year, but he did do that. He signed this bloke called Alexis Sanchez, who scored 25 goals for us last season.

Sanchez isn't an out and out striker, he's more of a winger/attacking midfielder, scores plenty of goals but we still need an out and out 25 goal striker and Sanchez is not him.

[Dein-machine]

Do you seriously believe the things you say? Or do you have this standpoint just so GW stays alive? I understand if its the later because as a mod, this is a fantastic line of thinking.. if its the former, then I dont even know what to say!

But he sometimes Wums by accident!!

[Dein-machine]

Sanchez isn't an out and out striker, he's more of a winger/attacking midfielder, scores plenty of goals but we still need an out and out 25 goal striker and Sanchez is not him.

Nor was Henry when we bought him. Because of our disaster of a manager, we will have to do whats best to try & break defenses down. The tippy tappy football that everyone knows how to defend against is all that Wenger seems to know so we will have to get on with it until the clown leaves. If it means we have to play Sanchez up top because he's the only one that offers the movement to open up tight defenses that that's what he'll have to do but the problem is that I couldn't even rely on Wenger to identify that solution.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I really don't know how you rate Welbeck over Walcott. I don't see it at all. Welbeck had no effect on the way we played when up front. Still can't play him in behind the striker because his movement is poor and his link up play wasn't that great either. He just seemed anonymous for most games. I'll give him a chance over Giroud based on potential but I don't think he's better than Giroud. For most of our players there is something there. Even Sanogo. If that kid could sharpen up his first touches and have more zip in shot we'd have our man. His link up play with the team is very good, it's just the other areas. With Welbeck, I can't say he excels at anything besides being a nice lad. He works hard but it's nothing exceptional.

Also, speaking of development, there is a reason why Sturridge left Chelsea and Welbeck Utd. They were tired of playing on the flanks and weren't progressing. It's a similar story for Theo but he's actually progressed as a player in that position but not to his full potential. I don't know what striker in this day and age gets his training on the flanks and I think Wenger has led him wrong.

As you say the only thing about Welbeck is his work rate, fair play to him he rolls his sleeves up but he has about the same level as finesse as Giroud...but without being able to hold up the ball

Can play wide to stretch the game as he has pace to burn but that's it

Sanogo is 22, which means he is too old to to improve in terms of a better first touch....another player who works his nuts off as well, but he seems to have barely mastered bipedal movement and often runs as if he has muscle rickets.

[Özim]

What possessed him to spend 16 million on Wellbeck, a player who couldn't cut it at Man U and who's finishing has been poor throughout his career, especially when we already had Giroud who is an average finisher, Walcott who once again isn't capable of taken the chances when they come to him regularly and Sanogo who just can't shoot.

Was he trying to put together the worst group of strikers in PL history? If so get the champagne out because he might well have a good chance of picking up that trophy.

Wenger doesn't seem to like players who as good as guarantee you goals, he seems to want to find those that don't in the hope he can turn them into the new Henry, guess what though, that happens once in a lifetime and Wenger's used up all of his lucky punts.

[Letters]

Do you seriously believe the things you say?
What part of the post you quoted do you disagree with?

Edit: Oh, and yes. Obviously, I do. And if you stopped acting like a toddler and tried thinking and looking at what I'm saying you would too. You just disagree with anything I write by default these days whether you actually agree with it or not. I doubt you even bothered reading the post you quoted before replying with that kneejerk nonsense. Let me break it down for you, see if that helps. This is my post you quoted, bit by bit:


We needed to spend proper money on a proper striker.

Do you disagree with this? :blink:


I don't know whether we failed to because we didn't try enough, because the players weren't available, or didn't want to come to us or whether Wenger is simply putting his trust in the players he has.

Again, which part of that do you disagree with? I've no idea why he didn't get his man. None of us do.


Either way on his head be it if we fail to challenge again.

Is that the bit you disagree with? I doubt it.


but signing another player with potential, or signing another 'Welbeck' for the sake of having another player wasn't the answer.

That is the only part of the post you quoted you may dispute. Personally I think we have a big enough squad, numbers-wise.
What we do need, particularly up front, is more quality. And signing some kid with 'potential' or another player at the level of Welbeck isn't going to improve us so personally I'm not bothered that we didn't. I am more bothered we didn't sign proper quality.

[Power n Glory]

as bad as England are, Welbeck has scored goals playing for them. Even ye old England manager is not stupid enough to play Walcott as a striker. This is not a shout out for Welbeck but he would be a better coice as striker than Walcott. he has almost all of Walcotts pace with a physical presence added. He needs to add composure which both he and walcott both lack. Giroud could be a monster player, but he is not a warrior, gets easily cowed by defenders, has no pace , no tricks and is one footed. He is also not going to get any better with age, Welbeck might.

That all sounds great but Welbeck had a long run up front for us and managed 5 goals and 2 assists in a 14 game run from September to early December. Break it down further, he had 16 starts as a striker and could only manage to score on 4 separate occasions. Is that good enough?

The pace and physical element he's supposed to bring to our game is all theory. We looked no better with him in the team compared to Giroud because he didn't provide a different sort of threat. His England record is impressive but that's for England and Peter Crouch has a fantastic record for England.

With Theo, I won't go into what he might be capable of, I'll just say his goal scoring record and assists from a wide position are better than Welbecks. As striker, Theo scored 4 goals in 2 games as striker last season. The longest run Theo has ever had as striker was 2012/13 and he played 5 back to back games scored 4 with 4 assists. A hattrick against Newcastle and 1 goal against Reading plus assists in the other games besides the City game. He has a lot to learn about playing as striker but he's scored more goals up front than Welbeck in a shorter space of time. In recent years we're talking 8 games as striker and he's scored 8 goals. Those are the facts.

[Power n Glory]

Sanchez isn't an out and out striker, he's more of a winger/attacking midfielder, scores plenty of goals but we still need an out and out 25 goal striker and Sanchez is not him.

Out of all the candidates, I think Sanchez is the one that could be a superstar goalscorer. I'm not comparing him to Messi but comparing the transition from a wide position to the centre. I don't think Wenger will play him there anytime soon because he likes to hold the ball in the opponents possession and likes a striker that can play the percentage passes over someone that makes runs at defenders or takes risks.

[Syn]

You judge far too many things in fantasy football points, PnG. In reality, all that's important is what's best for the team. Walcott and Ramsey are selfish cunts and they'll get goals and assists. It doesn't mean the team performs any better. I agree Walcott has a slight edge over Welbeck, but neither seem like good bets to do well for Arsenal. If Walcott stays injury free and starts putting the team first, the situation changes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Out of all the candidates, I think Sanchez is the one that could be a superstar goalscorer. I'm not comparing him to Messi but comparing the transition from a wide position to the centre. I don't think Wenger will play him there anytime soon because he likes to hold the ball in the opponents possession and likes a striker that can play the percentage passes over someone that makes runs at defenders or takes risks.

I tend to agree out of all the possible people that can conceivably play up front Sanchez has been experimented with least in that area. For me he habitually cuts inside anyway and usually he doesn't get muscled off the ball without a defender giving away a free kick, that's what I like about him he runs with the ball and draws fouls rather than passing into congestion.

[fakeyank]

What part of the post you quoted do you disagree with?

Edit: Oh, and yes. Obviously, I do. And if you stopped acting like a toddler and tried thinking and looking at what I'm saying you would too. You just disagree with anything I write by default these days whether you actually agree with it or not. I doubt you even bothered reading the post you quoted before replying with that kneejerk nonsense. Let me break it down for you, see if that helps. This is my post you quoted, bit by bit:



Do you disagree with this? :blink:



Again, which part of that do you disagree with? I've no idea why he didn't get his man. None of us do.



Is that the bit you disagree with? I doubt it.



That is the only part of the post you quoted you may dispute. Personally I think we have a big enough squad, numbers-wise.
What we do need, particularly up front, is more quality. And signing some kid with 'potential' or another player at the level of Welbeck isn't going to improve us so personally I'm not bothered that we didn't. I am more bothered we didn't sign proper quality.

I disagree with the fact that you are giving Wenger 'another chance' after the shambles this summer has been. Very few (if any) on here are saying that we shouldve signed someone for the sake of signing someone... people cant wrap their head around why he wouldnt sign or even attempt to sign proper back ups like Wanayama, Vidal, Schneiderlin etc. Majority on GW are sick of his quotes of "We will only sign top top quality" and then going and signing a Sanogo or Kallstrom.

And yes, I disagree with pretty much anything you have to say regarding Arsenal... thats because what you are saying is wrong.

PS: I want you to prove me wrong... but we all know that aint happening.

[Letters]

I disagree with the fact that you are giving Wenger 'another chance' after the shambles this summer has been.
I didn't say anything about that in the post you quoted.

[Letters]

And yes, I disagree with pretty much anything you have to say regarding Arsenal... thats because what you are saying is wrong.

Oh, and thanks for the heads up about that. :rolleyes:
Although as you clearly don't bother to read or understand or consider in any calm way what my opinion is, I don't think I'll take that statement too seriously.

[fakeyank]

I didn't say anything about that in the post you quoted.

I will not going to be pain of quoting again, but this certainly means giving wenger another chance


Either way on his head be it if we fail to challenge again

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Outside of Goonersweb it doesn't really matter whether Letters thinks Wenger should go now or at the end of the season, anyone with any realism will tell you though that he won't be punished for his inaction in the transfer market and that's why for him it's more of a risk to buy than not to buy.

Does anyone seriously believe he's going to be sacked unless he finishes outside the top four?.

Even if every single Arsenal fan in unison wants him to go, it will make not a jot of difference.

I don't think he should be sacked right now because we would be cutting off our nose to spite our face unless you are idiotic enough to genuinely believe that any manager could do a better job than Wenger. A lot of managers could do a better job unquestionably, but we want a better manager not ANY manager.
Also it won't change anything because we still have a team lacking goals and midfield solidity, which can't be addressed until January anyway.
I'm sick to the back teeth of his excuses and how when he shows an inkling of changing his ways he immediately reverts to type again because he's so damned stubborn.
But I'm still not 100% convinced that our majority shareholder isn't conniving behind the scenes to stop us from spending our capital in order to assist his own financial ends.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I disagree with the fact that you are giving Wenger 'another chance' after the shambles this summer has been. Very few (if any) on here are saying that we shouldve signed someone for the sake of signing someone... people cant wrap their head around why he wouldnt sign or even attempt to sign proper back ups like Wanayama, Vidal, Schneiderlin etc. Majority on GW are sick of his quotes of "We will only sign top top quality" and then going and signing a Sanogo or Kallstrom.

And yes, I disagree with pretty much anything you have to say regarding Arsenal... thats because what you are saying is wrong.

PS: I want you to prove me wrong... but we all know that aint happening.

The thing is though, if you look at his transfers over last few windows, thats exactly what he has done. Cech, Ozil, Sanchez are genuine world class players. Gabriel so far has looked a very good player (perhaps its time he replaces Per in the line up for good but thats another debate). Ospina is a good back up, i like the look of Chambers but admit he's raw but as fourth choice its fine. Debuchy again is good back up. I don't think Schneiderlin is better then Coqulein and at 25 million, not sure its worth it, Wanayama isn't the best so again its signing for the sake of it even as back up. Vidal would replace Ramsey and that wouldn't happen, no point benching Ramsey and vidal wouldn't come unless first choice.

Wenger in his mind has over the last 3 years developed a squad that he thinks is good enough to challenge/win, although he tried for a world class striker, but that failed. Its a lot easier to take a punt on a squad with players like Ozil, Sanchez, Cech in it then ones with Song, Denilson, Bendtner.

[alexander]

The thing is though, if you look at his transfers over last few windows, thats exactly what he has done. Cech, Ozil, Sanchez are genuine world class players. Gabriel so far has looked a very good player (perhaps its time he replaces Per in the line up for good but thats another debate). Ospina is a good back up, i like the look of Chambers but admit he's raw but as fourth choice its fine. Debuchy again is good back up. I don't think Schneiderlin is better then Coqulein and at 25 million, not sure its worth it, Wanayama isn't the best so again its signing for the sake of it even as back up. Vidal would replace Ramsey and that wouldn't happen, no point benching Ramsey and vidal wouldn't come unless first choice.

Wenger in his mind has over the last 3 years developed a squad that he thinks is good enough to challenge/win, although he tried for a world class striker, but that failed. Its a lot easier to take a punt on a squad with players like Ozil, Sanchez, Cech in it then ones with Song, Denilson, Bendtner.

well put :good:

[Özim]

Outside of Goonersweb it doesn't really matter whether Letters thinks Wenger should go now or at the end of the season, anyone with any realism will tell you though that he won't be punished for his inaction in the transfer market and that's why for him it's more of a risk to buy than not to buy.

Does anyone seriously believe he's going to be sacked unless he finishes outside the top four?.

Even if every single Arsenal fan in unison wants him to go, it will make not a jot of difference.

I don't think he should be sacked right now because we would be cutting off our nose to spite our face unless you are idiotic enough to genuinely believe that any manager could do a better job than Wenger. A lot of managers could do a better job unquestionably, but we want a better manager not ANY manager.
Also it won't change anything because we still have a team lacking goals and midfield solidity, which can't be addressed until January anyway.
I'm sick to the back teeth of his excuses and how when he shows an inkling of changing his ways he immediately reverts to type again because he's so damned stubborn.
But I'm still not 100% convinced that our majority shareholder isn't conniving behind the scenes to stop us from spending our capital in order to assist his own financial ends.

He won't be sacked even if he ends up outside the top 4, that's pretty clear, I can remember the board saying we don't have to be in the top 4 every year we have enough money to be able to cope when we were looking like we could miss out.

Wenger is going nowhere regardless of what he does, there's no consequences for his actions, he can do what he likes when he likes, he has way too much job security and power.

[Özim]

The thing is though, if you look at his transfers over last few windows, thats exactly what he has done. Cech, Ozil, Sanchez are genuine world class players. Gabriel so far has looked a very good player (perhaps its time he replaces Per in the line up for good but thats another debate). Ospina is a good back up, i like the look of Chambers but admit he's raw but as fourth choice its fine. Debuchy again is good back up. I don't think Schneiderlin is better then Coqulein and at 25 million, not sure its worth it, Wanayama isn't the best so again its signing for the sake of it even as back up. Vidal would replace Ramsey and that wouldn't happen, no point benching Ramsey and vidal wouldn't come unless first choice.

Wenger in his mind has over the last 3 years developed a squad that he thinks is good enough to challenge/win, although he tried for a world class striker, but that failed. Its a lot easier to take a punt on a squad with players like Ozil, Sanchez, Cech in it then ones with Song, Denilson, Bendtner.

Clearly it isn't, he signed a few top players and a lot not so great players like Debuchy, Chambers, Flamini, Kallstrom, Sanogo etc, so he's not done what he claims he would only do, it's the usual rubbish he comes out with.

[Letters]

I will not going to be pain of quoting again, but this certainly means giving wenger another chance

:lol: what does 'give him another chance' mean?
Wenger is our manager. He will be our manager all season. What you or I or anyone else think about that makes no difference. Saying I'm 'willing' or 'not willing' to give him another chance makes no sense as it's not in my power whether he's our manager or not.

But clearly a season can only be judged at the end, like a game can only be judged at the end.
Do you judge a game when you're 4-0 up at Newcastle half way through or at the end when you've slumped to an embarrassing draw? I'm not happy with the lack of activity this summer but ultimately the season can only be judged at the end although the longer the season goes on the more valid the assessment of it is.

[Globalgunner]

Clearly it isn't, he signed a few top players and a lot not so great players like Debuchy, Chambers, Flamini, Kallstrom, Sanogo etc, so he's not done what he claims he would only do, it's the usual rubbish he comes out with.

Just watch this brilliant squad he has put together huff and puff its way to a meandering 4th place

[Power n Glory]

You judge far too many things in fantasy football points, PnG. In reality, all that's important is what's best for the team. Walcott and Ramsey are selfish cunts and they'll get goals and assists. It doesn't mean the team performs any better. I agree Walcott has a slight edge over Welbeck, but neither seem like good bets to do well for Arsenal. If Walcott stays injury free and starts putting the team first, the situation changes.

That's all fact, my friend. Not fantasy. If you agree that Walcott edges Welbeck, that's the point I'm making. Sometimes there is no point in saying this player has a better touch, movement and so forth. I'm just pointing out the fact that Welbeck had a very long run as striker and we looked just as toothless in many games as Giroud or Walcott's recent outing. In comparison, Theo has had a shorter run of games up front but has played better and the teams looked better, quicker and more lethal when he's played well there. I'm not saying we can't do better because I believe we could have a serious threat in Sanchez. I'm just looking at internal options now that the window has closed.

Speaking of Sanchez, he's a selfish player as well. Have you seen how many times he's dribbled for too long when a pass was the better option? Or the bad decisions he can often make? Why not highlight that along with Walcott's and Ramsey's selfish play? Honestly, I have no problem with Walcott and Ramsey going for goal and being selfish in that area. Positional awareness is something they need to work on and not neglecting defensive duties, but we need players willing to shoot. We need that from Ozil. Call it selfish but I think players need to be more brave and take responsibility. Take a risk and not always play the percentages.

I have no problem with Sanchez taking risks as well. It's what makes him stand out and get goals. We don't need him to become institutionalised like the rest of them and we don't need another team player striker. We need someone more selfish up front. I don't know what player up front you thinks good for the team but so far, we're not getting the right results from Giroud and the same goes for Welbeck. We need to take a risk somewhere if we want a change in fortune.

I don't want a striker up front that just helps us to keep the ball in our opponents half with endless passing. If that's the team game you mean, we need to do away with it. Our attacks need to be faster, shorter and more efficient. Bursts of attacks rather than just going through the motions. None of this long drawn out 500 passes before a shot or mistake concedes possession. I'd rather we had players that take risks and lose the ball high up the pitch but we have an organised solid midfield and defence ready to win the ball back so we can mount another attack.

[Niall_Quinn]

The thing is though, if you look at his transfers over last few windows, thats exactly what he has done. Cech, Ozil, Sanchez are genuine world class players. Gabriel so far has looked a very good player (perhaps its time he replaces Per in the line up for good but thats another debate). Ospina is a good back up, i like the look of Chambers but admit he's raw but as fourth choice its fine. Debuchy again is good back up. I don't think Schneiderlin is better then Coqulein and at 25 million, not sure its worth it, Wanayama isn't the best so again its signing for the sake of it even as back up. Vidal would replace Ramsey and that wouldn't happen, no point benching Ramsey and vidal wouldn't come unless first choice.

Wenger in his mind has over the last 3 years developed a squad that he thinks is good enough to challenge/win, although he tried for a world class striker, but that failed. Its a lot easier to take a punt on a squad with players like Ozil, Sanchez, Cech in it then ones with Song, Denilson, Bendtner.

Fair points but we have a lot of catching up to do after many lean years. This summer was not the time to pause, it was the time to build on what your rightly point out as a more positive and developing trend. Just two more players and I believe we would have had a serious chance at this title and maybe even a run in Europe. A whole summer to plug one of those holes. This is a major fuck up which can only be put right if somehow he manages to drag 12 more points out of the same squad that couldn't compete last year - bar a keeper who may save a few points for us but won't be up the other end scoring.

Why Wenger does this to himself is anybody's guess. After a slow start every setback will be jumped on as further evidence of how he's screwed this window. Giroud is under immense pressure now and he doesn't seem the sort to handle pressure very well. It's fingers crossed that Coquelin can stay fit and ban free. And £200mill sitting in the bank. It makes zero sense. We can all try to figure out why Wenger has chose to do this, but the fact remains he didn't have to because there was a much better alternative available to him for months.

[Niall_Quinn]

And another thing to consider which Wenger really ought to get a whole lot more stick for. If Coquelin hadn't fortunately fallen in his lap we'd be stuck with an ageing Arteta and past it Flamini. It's pure fortune Coquelin is here at all, Wenger didn't see it. So it makes you winder if he is even qualified to judge the top, top, top quality that has breezed past him this transfer window. You would have thought he'd build on that fortunate turn of events and reinforce his good luck with some cover for Coquelin. But not Wenger. Arteta and Flamini will do, players who can not shift a kid Wenger was all set to get rid of until he proved the manager 100% wrong.

Wenger is wrong again by the way.

[BOBN]

Ah. Fair enough. Not convinced Henry would make a good coach in any case, for the reasons I outlined. if he's got a bit more to his insight that he's hiding from the sky cameras then fine. He comes across as a thick twat on there though. Would sooner listen to Neville.
Youve got to be thick to say he comes across as thick.

Hes just not an analytical thinker regarding football, like most flair players across the sports. His grasp of English is better than most Brits in the game.

[Injury Time]

And another thing to consider which Wenger really ought to get a whole lot more stick for. If Coquelin hadn't fortunately fallen in his lap we'd be stuck with an ageing Arteta and past it Flamini. It's pure fortune Coquelin is here at all, Wenger didn't see it. So it makes you winder if he is even qualified to judge the top, top, top quality that has breezed past him this transfer window. You would have thought he'd build on that fortunate turn of events and reinforce his good luck with some cover for Coquelin. But not Wenger. Arteta and Flamini will do, players who can not shift a kid Wenger was all set to get rid of until he proved the manager 100% wrong.

Wenger is wrong again by the way.
Pfft 19 is over the hill we've got a 17yo in our Chumps league squad
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3220198/Arsenal-select-teenager-Jeff-Reine-Adelaide-Champions-League-squad.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

[Power n Glory]

Youve got to be thick to say he comes across as thick.

Hes just not an analytical thinker regarding football, like most flair players across the sports. His grasp of English is better than most Brits in the game.

I think Thierry would be alright. Simple little tricks and tips will go long way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3CpiT6p8UE

[BOBN]

I think Thierry would be alright. Simple little tricks and tips will go long way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3CpiT6p8UE
Who better to school a youngster on strike play. Bergkamp? That guy could barely score half a dozen goals in a season ffs.

[BOBN]

Top players don't necessarily make good coaches. Many examples but take Tony Adams. Henry seems like bit of an idiot, unfortunately. Talks a ridiculous amount of shit. Understandable, it came very naturally to him but he's not going to be someone who can teach limited players like Welbz to get to their best.

If we're going ex-players, the one who usually talks intelligently about the game is Keown. Important to have some extra perspective that the Sky clowns don't have and he is a lot more insightful. Would like to see him take on management/coaching elsewhere first.
Talking 'intelligently' about the game doesnt mean shit btw. Alex Ferguson could barely string two words together.

Nobodys trying to listen to damn Keown. Even Senderous turned his nose up.

[selassie]

The thing is though, if you look at his transfers over last few windows, thats exactly what he has done. Cech, Ozil, Sanchez are genuine world class players. Gabriel so far has looked a very good player (perhaps its time he replaces Per in the line up for good but thats another debate). Ospina is a good back up, i like the look of Chambers but admit he's raw but as fourth choice its fine. Debuchy again is good back up. I don't think Schneiderlin is better then Coqulein and at 25 million, not sure its worth it, Wanayama isn't the best so again its signing for the sake of it even as back up. Vidal would replace Ramsey and that wouldn't happen, no point benching Ramsey and vidal wouldn't come unless first choice.

Wenger in his mind has over the last 3 years developed a squad that he thinks is good enough to challenge/win, although he tried for a world class striker, but that failed. Its a lot easier to take a punt on a squad with players like Ozil, Sanchez, Cech in it then ones with Song, Denilson, Bendtner.

Whilst I accept that Wenger has bought fairly well over the past few years he still has a tendency in the market to be the "kid in the candy store" picking up what he likes and not what the team actually needs. Seriously, was Ozil really needed? He's a good player, he adds quality to our team but not star quality. We all know what we needed that summer and we managed to completely screw up.

Wenger has had 2 Summer Windows to buy a striker and he has failed, it would be a sackable offence at any other big club in Europe, they absolutely wouldn't put up with it.

Wenger has clearly improved the squad, that isn't up for debate, what is up for debate is that he is mismanaging windows and leaving gaping holes in the squad. He has a stack of money to sort out these issues out. It's gross negligence.

[Alpha]

Arsenal needed two players : A quality striker and a defensive midfielder as a cover in case Coquelin is not available .

1) Striker : we need a top quality striker . An upgrade of what we always have and not just a striker . Two only were " in the market "
Karim Benzema and Edison Cavani .

Real Madrid made it clear they were not going to sell and they meant it . Why would they have sold in the first place ? They are the best club in the world and still need their player . Wenger made a bid and failed . Is that his fault ? Wenger wins here .
PSG asked for 50M + with a huge wages for a player turning 29 very soon . Is there any guarantee he would have hit the ground running straight away ? I am not really sure .But he would have needed time to adjust and by that time he would have been 30 or 31 near the end of his career and investing 50 M here wouldn't have been wise .Wenger wins again .
2) Defensive midfield : we have Francis Coquelin as our rising star . He is doing his job superbly .Would it have been wise to stop his " momentum" with another player ? No really . we have two experienced cover in Arteta and Flamini who have had a limited game time because of Coquelin . Are we thinking in case of suspension or injury to the Coq ? Why would we be so negative about our own player ? Wenger wins again here .
I wish we had bought one or two top players if they were available but I understand why Wenger did not buy anyone on this occasion . The next thing would be for the whole team to step up and work twice as harder . Buying new players or not , only hard work will pay off .

[Ollie the Optimist]

And another thing to consider which Wenger really ought to get a whole lot more stick for. If Coquelin hadn't fortunately fallen in his lap we'd be stuck with an ageing Arteta and past it Flamini. It's pure fortune Coquelin is here at all, Wenger didn't see it. So it makes you winder if he is even qualified to judge the top, top, top quality that has breezed past him this transfer window. You would have thought he'd build on that fortunate turn of events and reinforce his good luck with some cover for Coquelin. But not Wenger. Arteta and Flamini will do, players who can not shift a kid Wenger was all set to get rid of until he proved the manager 100% wrong.

Wenger is wrong again by the way.

The thing is though, there is always an element of luck in football. It looks like now that Bellerin is first choice right back, clearly Wenger knew he had talent, but it took for Debuchy to suffer a long term injury in January for him to get a long run in the team. You always get an element of luck when players are injured and suddenly others take their chance. I dont think there is any doubt that luck was with Coquelin but he took his chance and has earned his place. However, if he had failed, I think we would have signed Schnderlein, given previous interest.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Clearly it isn't, he signed a few top players and a lot not so great players like Debuchy, Chambers, Flamini, Kallstrom, Sanogo etc, so he's not done what he claims he would only do, it's the usual rubbish he comes out with.

I think its unfair to write off Chambers, hes young and shown he has a lot of potential. Debuchy is good back up too. Obviously Flamini and Kallstrom were mistakes.

[Niall_Quinn]

The thing is though, there is always an element of luck in football. It looks like now that Bellerin is first choice right back, clearly Wenger knew he had talent, but it took for Debuchy to suffer a long term injury in January for him to get a long run in the team. You always get an element of luck when players are injured and suddenly others take their chance. I dont think there is any doubt that luck was with Coquelin but he took his chance and has earned his place. However, if he had failed, I think we would have signed Schnderlein, given previous interest.

Ollie, why defend him? He should have acted in the transfer window, surely everyone knows that? He's paid the big bucks to make the big plays - excuses are not allowed at that level. D Day plus one and I'm bored of talking about it now. 34 games ahead and we'll all get behind the team, apart from Zim. But Wenger, he's infuriating. His own worst enemy in the end.

[PGFC]

So, the Welbeck news has bollocksed this up, so he's officially a cunt.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the Welbeck news? Don't tell me he's out for "2 weeks" :o

EDIT: Oh right, I see it on the other thread. Out for months - isn't that "career over" in Arsenal Injury Speak? If 2 weeks = 1/2 season then "several months" must be a very, very long time.

Anyway, I doubt Wenger knew about this when he opted to sit on his arse during the transfer window. I'm thinking Danny woke up this morning and said, I fancy a bit of surgery. And Arsene would have been like, "Urgh, dude, you could have little bit told me!"

[Marc Overmars]

More unnecessary pressure the club heaps on itself, given they knew he was going to be missing for months before the window shut. Bit of a joke really.

[selassie]

More unnecessary pressure the club heaps on itself, given they knew he was going to be missing for months before the window shut. Bit of a joke really.

Despite all of that the Kim Kallstrom one will take some beating, bringing in a player with a broken back to cover injuries in Midfield, still laughing about that one, only at Arsenal would this happen!

[Power n Glory]

Despite all of that the Kim Kallstrom one will take some beating, bringing in a player with a broken back to cover injuries in Midfield, still laughing about that one, only at Arsenal would this happen!

That remains top of the pile.

[Gooner23]

I still like the Joel Campbell one. Dick Law spent weeks and weeks being given the run around trying to get him signed. Then he couldn't play in England for 2-3 years, and when he finally is eligible Wenget decides he isn't good enough. Yet he is still at the club without a hope of playing.

[fakeyank]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15205/9977270/arsenal-transfer-inactivity-criticised-by-paul-merson

This is a brilliant piece. Though I still maintain that till Wenger changes his tactics and plans how to approach different opponents, we will challenge for fuck all. But yea, a little ambition in the transfer window would have been a boost in morale.

Cant wait for 2017 when he is 'supposed to leave'. I think someone should start a clock, similar to the one that was started when we hadnt won a trophy for a while. That'll give some hope to Arsenal fans.

[Master Splinter]

More unnecessary pressure the club heaps on itself, given they knew he was going to be missing for months before the window shut. Bit of a joke really.

Arsenal are the world's first multi-million pound trolling operation.

With the greatest WUM in history at the head of the company.

[Özim]

I'd give Campbell a run, can't be any worse than what we have and he seems to have talent, not like we have loads of choice now.

Only Wenger would be some incompetent to not sign a striker when one of your (admittedly sh*t) strikers is out till xmas.

[Injury Time]

Arsenal are the world's first multi-million pound trolling operation.

With the greatest WUM in history at the head of the company.
They signed Letters in the transfer window? Arsenal PR dept :rose:

[alexander]

What's the Welbeck news? Don't tell me he's out for "2 weeks" :o

EDIT: Oh right, I see it on the other thread. Out for months - isn't that "career over" in Arsenal Injury Speak? If 2 weeks = 1/2 season then "several months" must be a very, very long time.

Anyway, I doubt Wenger knew about this when he opted to sit on his arse during the transfer window. I'm thinking Danny woke up this morning and said, I fancy a bit of surgery. And Arsene would have been like, "Urgh, dude, you could have little bit told me!"

Probably dead.

[Özim]

The people who said "if we don't get any injuries" we have a good chance of the title, we already have injuries so there's is no "if" with Arsenal just when, that's of course unless you're talking about transfers, in which case it's a very big "if".

[LDG]

Arsenal are the world's first multi-million pound trolling operation.

With the greatest WUM in history at the head of the company.

:lol:

Arsenal.com actually had a goal of the month winner, with Giroud scooping the award ahead of Own Goal.

[Letters]

:lol:

Arsenal.com actually had a goal of the month winner, with Giroud scooping the award ahead of Own Goal.

:haha:

[GP]

:lol:

Arsenal.com actually had a goal of the month winner, with Giroud scooping the award ahead of Own Goal.

Ahead of Ox.

[Letters]

Wenger :bow:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3222231/Arsenal-right-hide-Danny-Welbeck-injury-better-window-Premier-League-club.html

:run:

[Power n Glory]

Wenger :bow:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3222231/Arsenal-right-hide-Danny-Welbeck-injury-better-window-Premier-League-club.html

:run:

All logical and reasonable explanations for why we've done what we've done.

I just hope Wenger knows what he's doing and delivers on the pitch. It has to go beyond showing faith in the same players that have let him down. I'd rather he'd take a risk at this stage because I think we'll fall short with the tried and tested.

Here's a new one. From 2006 to 2014 we've paid Wenger £64m in wages. :lol: Saw it in the comments section. That doesn't add up.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Cavani is often played out of position and the central striker position is given to Ibra. Don't get me wrong I think Cavani is massively overrated but to state he isn't an upgrade on Giroud is risible.

Total nonsense, doing nothing is never a better idea. Who cares if we'd have paid above the odds for the players it's not like we'd be living beyond our means.

Even if that was a rational argument, why would you not look to bring in a striker on loan if only just to add numbers up front.

The indecision is not a tactical masterstroke, it's indecision commonplace in a prevaricating manager.

[Özim]

Seems to me the truth is Wenger doesn't want to spend the money at his disposal, it's not his style, he wants to put faith in the players he has and believes they are good enough to win everything, he's long put faith in his players, even if they've usually failed to repay the trust, problem is he never really learns or adapts. Consequently we see the same cycle over and over again, a logical man would identify a weak area, do his homework and sign someone as quickly as possible, sadly being logical is not something we can accuse Wenger of being guilty of.

He's a perfect fit for this club in many ways, the board will always be happy if he keeps spending low and then achieves 4th place, it's more money in the bank so why wouldn't they, the fans of course aren't thrilled, but they keep coming anyway and eventually accept that that's the way it is.

In reality there's no end to this cycle, not until Wenger decides he's had enough, which IMO is probably 5 years away at least.

[Özim]

Cavani is often played out of position and the central striker position is given to Ibra. Don't get me wrong I think Cavani is massively overrated but to state he isn't an upgrade on Giroud is risible.

Total nonsense, doing nothing is never a better idea. Who cares if we'd have paid above the odds for the players it's not like we'd be living beyond our means.

Even if that was a rational argument, why would you not look to bring in a striker on loan if only just to add numbers up front.

The indecision is not a tactical masterstroke, it's indecision commonplace in a prevaricating manager.

Totally agree, Cavani may not be the greatest footballer but he will score goals, more goals than the players we have up front.

Regardless of this though, we should have had a list of at least half a dozen options (if not more) before the summer started, the fact we failed to sign anyone when we had the best part of three months to do so is incompetence of the highest order, there really is no excuse for it. We seem unable to find anyone in January or in the summer, maybe the FA should consider scrapping the windows and let clubs sign players all year again so we have time to find someone.

To be honest, i'm not even convinced we tried to sign a striker, the only evidence is press nonsense, there was nothing concrete from what I saw, we probably put the rumours out ourselves to make it look like we were active.

Next summer we'll probably be linked with Neymar and allegedly spend all summer chasing him, even though Barca say he's not for sale and the players says he's happy and doesn't want to leave, no doubt we'll see a pic of him visiting london or wearing a red top with the Arsenal badge superimposed on it.

[BOBN]

Cavani is often played out of position and the central striker position is given to Ibra. Don't get me wrong I think Cavani is massively overrated but to state he isn't an upgrade on Giroud is risible.

Total nonsense, doing nothing is never a better idea. Who cares if we'd have paid above the odds for the players it's not like we'd be living beyond our means.

Even if that was a rational argument, why would you not look to bring in a striker on loan if only just to add numbers up front.

The indecision is not a tactical masterstroke, it's indecision commonplace in a prevaricating manager.
On one of the Arsenal podcasts, somebody said Pedro wouldnt get into our team ahead of Ox (even though Ox doesnt get in to the team) and that "strikers dont win you titles", its defence.

People lose their minds when it comes to defending Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

Cavani is often played out of position and the central striker position is given to Ibra. Don't get me wrong I think Cavani is massively overrated but to state he isn't an upgrade on Giroud is risible.

Total nonsense, doing nothing is never a better idea. Who cares if we'd have paid above the odds for the players it's not like we'd be living beyond our means.

Even if that was a rational argument, why would you not look to bring in a striker on loan if only just to add numbers up front.

The indecision is not a tactical masterstroke, it's indecision commonplace in a prevaricating manager.

I've argued that point about Cavani myself. That's the point in the article I don't agree with but I don't know if PSG were willing to sell him. But I can understand why we'd play down Welbeck's injury.

Also, I wouldn't go as far as what Merson said and pay over the odds for Benzema and Cavani. £75m is crazy talk. That's lunacy. As much as I think those strikers are an up grade on Giroud, I have doubts that we'll a serious difference to our play. What if they struggle just as much against teams that park the bus or the tippy tappy style just doesn't get the best of them like we're seeing with Ozil? It's a tough one. £25m - £30m, no problem but £75m isn't on. If Wenger spent that much and they flopped in a major way leaving little for the new manager to spend, I'd be pissed. All this talk of inflation and money collecting dust in the bank is ridiculous as well. We won't get that money back from Cavani or Benzema. It's possible if players like Ozil, Sanchez, Ox explode with a good run of form but not from players in their late 20s.

Honestly, I'd rather Wenger gamble on playing Sanchez, Walcott or Campbell through the middle and buy a wide player to fill the gap they've left. Either that or he'd have had to gamble on someone like Benteke or a lesser known striker. Whatever the case, I just hope we don't try the same tactics, formation and squad selection that has failed on numerous occasions.

[Bumble]

According to Arseblog we did try to get a striker on loan but it didn't work out but he didn't sound that excited about it, so I imagine we would be most unimpressed.

Perhaps we should have strengthened defensively instead as an injury to Coq and we are screwed more so that if Giroud got injured. Then we can go back to the good old days of 1-0 to the Arsenal. Also I don't think teams really park the bus against us well apart from the Chavs. Liverpool and West Ham did attack as well during the game.

Wenger knows we will finish top 4 regardless, so is it really worth the effort bringing in a £50m striker which ultimately probably still wont mean we win the league and we will still go through our CL group anyway.

For us to finish above Chelsea or City they will have to play poorly. Next four games Stoke (h) Chelsea (a) Leicester (a) United (h) 7-9 points would be a pretty good return and as long as we don't lose to Chelsea and United 2nd place could be up for grabs.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I've argued that point about Cavani myself. That's the point in the article I don't agree with but I don't know if PSG were willing to sell him. But I can understand why we'd play down Welbeck's injury.

Also, I wouldn't go as far as what Merson said and pay over the odds for Benzema and Cavani. £75m is crazy talk. That's lunacy. As much as I think those strikers are an up grade on Giroud, I have doubts that we'll a serious difference to our play. What if they struggle just as much against teams that park the bus or the tippy tappy style just doesn't get the best of them like we're seeing with Ozil? It's a tough one. £25m - £30m, no problem but £75m isn't on. If Wenger spent that much and they flopped in a major way leaving little for the new manager to spend, I'd be pissed. All this talk of inflation and money collecting dust in the bank is ridiculous as well. We won't get that money back from Cavani or Benzema. It's possible if players like Ozil, Sanchez, Ox explode with a good run of form but not from players in their late 20s.

Honestly, I'd rather Wenger gamble on playing Sanchez, Walcott or Campbell through the middle and buy a wide player to fill the gap they've left. Either that or he'd have had to gamble on someone like Benteke or a lesser known striker. Whatever the case, I just hope we don't try the same tactics, formation and squad selection that has failed on numerous occasions.

Perhaps, though I'm not sure either Walcott or Campbell can play up front unless it's part of an interchangeable front three. My personal preference would have been to take the risk on someone like Mauro Icardi from Inter who we did enquire about apparently and could potentially play anywhere within the front three.

[Power n Glory]

Perhaps, though I'm not sure either Walcott or Campbell can play up front unless it's part of an interchangeable front three. My personal preference would have been to take the risk on someone like Mauro Icardi from Inter who we did enquire about apparently and could potentially play anywhere within the front three.

What about Sanchez? Touted as a forward in the summer of last season so talk of us needing a striker cooled. But the season kicks off and he's not getting games there.

http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/329183.html

[adzzzbatch]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/wenger-becomes-a-verb-20150904101720


TO go out shopping and return home empty handed is now described as to ‘Wenger’.

The Oxford English Dictionary said ‘Wengering’ is a tendency found in stubborn, parsimonious middle aged men who cannot handle the concept of inflation.

Examples of ‘Wengering’ include: “I went to Marks And Spencer under orders to buy some new socks. But they didn’t have any like the last ones I bought in 1976, so I Wengered, came home and asked my wife to darn old my old pairs instead.”

Or there is: “My toilet had sprung a leak but the plumber I called was charging £50 an hour. So I Wengered – I had my son try to fix it instead, as part of my youth policy. The toilet flooded the bathroom but the important thing is, I stuck to my philosophy.”

Or alternatively: “I am a multi-millionaire whose children desperately need new bikes for Christmas. But I went to Halfords only to Wenger when I saw the prices.

“Imagine the faces of my children when they open their presents on Christmas day, to find their old bikes patched up with sellotape. I will explain to them that now they are mended they are the same as new bikes.

“In any case, they will be more than adequate for the brief trip we are making to Europe this year.”

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

Arsenal.com actually had a goal of the month winner, with Giroud scooping the award ahead of Own Goal.

So close to not being able to have a goal of the month award due to a complete lack of goals. But we definitely don't need a striker. Owen Gol has scored twice as many as the rest of the team combined and he cost us precisely zero. Now THAT is value for money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What about Sanchez? Touted as a forward in the summer of last season so talk of us needing a striker cooled. But the season kicks off and he's not getting games there.

http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/329183.html

The problem is whether it's Theo or Sanchez you use in that position you are requiring a period of adaptation that especially with goals not being forthcoming from other areas of the team you are asking for trouble. Don't get me wrong I was also one of those who believed we'd be signing Sanchez as a striker.

[Letters]

Seems to me the truth is Wenger doesn't want to spend the money at his disposal, it's not his style, he wants to put faith in the players he has and believes they are good enough to win everything.

But the minute the new financial deals were in place he went out and bought Ozil and then Sanchez. :shrug:
Over those 2 summers we outspent pretty much everyone.

My take on this summer is he tried to get a player who would properly push us on and failed. We can blame him for that, we should do if the result is we don't challenge. But what I don't blame him for is not signing either a kid or another Giroud-level striker (who isn't as bad out as ou make out, but isn't going to win you the league), just for the sake of signing another playa. We've got plenty of playa, and IMO we're not far off a squad that can properly challenge. Another journeyman wouldn't have pushed us on.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Giroud has goal stats that would be very good if you were playing for a mid table side, but to state that there were only one or two players out there that would be an improvement on him is risible. Transfers are a risk, you may end up in a situation where you have spent a lot for a dud but if you want to challenge for the title it's not a risk we should be shying away from.

Who is to say whether Icardi, Dybala, Martinez, Lacazette would have proved to be significant improvements but if you accept that there is a problem with Giroud and that there are players out there with the potential to offer you something more, you are paid 8million a year to take that risk and go over the market odds to get that player....if Wenger cannot take that risk he needs to hand the baton to someone who can.

I actually don't believe he had any intention of signing a striker until a) he realised that the goals weren't coming on the pitch and b) he realised the extent of welbecks injuries and makes comments in post match interviews that he hadn't previously made like "you always look to bring more goals into your team".
This for me sums up my belief that Wenger approaches the market reactively rather than proactively, he waits for a deal to fall in his lap rather than actively pursuing one.

Whether we should have signed schneiderlin or not is a different matter but to leave Coquelin as our only bona fide defensive midfielder suggests prevarication, oh if I buy this player it will kill Coquelin, not necessarily and even if it did who gives a fuck? He's there to be ruthless and win the team titles not to nurse his players egos.

So the lack of activity sums Wenger up, complacent in believing a side that did not challenge for the title last season could do so this season without significant strengthening based purely on the back of a strong second half of the season when there was no real pressure on us anyway and when we had the opportunity to finish higher than third for the first time in ten years which would have really laid a marker for this seasons aspirations we flounder.



This bares the hallmarks of a man who has admitted he has only felt real pressure to keep us in the top four.

[Power n Glory]

The problem is whether it's Theo or Sanchez you use in that position you are requiring a period of adaptation that especially with goals not being forthcoming from other areas of the team you are asking for trouble. Don't get me wrong I was also one of those who believed we'd be signing Sanchez as a striker.

That's nothing new. We may have required that for a new signing anyway and with Giroud not exactly firing on all cylinders, I say it's worth the risk. It's not ideal but I'd rather that then wait to see if Giroud picks his game up. He's been out of sorts since preseason and shouldn't have been starting the opening games for us.

[Kano]

But the minute the new financial deals were in place he went out and bought Ozil and then Sanchez. :shrug:
Over those 2 summers we outspent pretty much everyone.

My take on this summer is he tried to get a player who would properly push us on and failed. We can blame him for that, we should do if the result is we don't challenge. But what I don't blame him for is not signing either a kid or another Giroud-level striker (who isn't as bad out as ou make out, but isn't going to win you the league), just for the sake of signing another playa. We've got plenty of playa, and IMO we're not far off a squad that can properly challenge. Another journeyman wouldn't have pushed us on.
That's a very narrow view of the situation. Getting a striker was not the only position we needed to address as a priority. To suggest there was no-one on the market as good as or better than Coq is ridiculous. Wenger made the call that a guy who hasn't even played a full season of football and three ageing midfielders were sufficient. Likewise on the wing, we have no-one who naturally plays that position which is why fans are always complaining about lack of width. They all want to stay in the middle. The manager has decided that this squad is enough, even though they've shown no progression over the past two seasons in the league.

[I am invisible]

That's nothing new. We may have required that for a new signing anyway and with Giroud not exactly firing on all cylinders, I say it's worth the risk. It's not ideal but I'd rather that then wait to see if Giroud picks his game up. He's been out of sorts since preseason and shouldn't have been starting the opening games for us.
In some ways, this ties in with what we were saying in the other thread [about how the game has changed because of the new offside laws, and how defensive lines have started to sit deeper] - maybe Sanchez and Walcott are already being used as strikers where they currently are? Maybe wide attack is just where you have to play that type of striker in a lot of games now, because there's no room in the middle? Put an unglamorous battering-ram like Giroud or Welbeck in the middle to push the CBs around, and have your wide forwards follow in behind to pounce on any gaps that they make (or overlap on the counter if anyone's stupid enough to play high)?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's nothing new. We may have required that for a new signing anyway and with Giroud not exactly firing on all cylinders, I say it's worth the risk. It's not ideal but I'd rather that then wait to see if Giroud picks his game up. He's been out of sorts since preseason and shouldn't have been starting the opening games for us.

Oh I definitely agree, I think we have to do that now...I'm just saying ideally we shouldn't be in the position where that is our only realistic option.
To be honest if Wenger wasn't going to buy a striker I'd have preferred us to start with Sanchez up top in pre season. I think the only reason Wenger doesn't do it is because he thinks sticking Walcott on the left will leave Monreal too exposed...my answer to that?? Don't play Monreal hes too fucking slow and is he really that good to begin with?.

[Letters]

I disagree, IMO striker was the priority, it's definitely our weakest position.

[Kano]

I disagree, IMO striker was the priority, it's definitely our weakest position.

You are honestly of the belief that a player with less than a years experience in the Prem is sufficient enough? Along with two midfielders who rarely get a game and Cazorla who isn't able to pitch in with defending much. Wilshere is always injured, Ramsey plays out wide or behind the strikers (in the last game) so who else is there? We look good on paper in terms of numbers but when you analyse things we haven't got much there.

And saying it is a priority to get a striker is one thing but not realising it is a requirement at all to help out Coq is quite an oversight. We realised early on probably getting the 'star' striker we wanted wasn't happening, so why weren't other areas of concern addressed?

[Letters]

I'm pretty happy with our squad in general apart from up front.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm getting used to the idea of being 2% away again. Make do and mend will have to get us through the season now, and considering how much the manager and players get paid you'd have to hope they can make at least a semi-decent effort at the title.

[Power n Glory]

In some ways, this ties in with what we were saying in the other thread [about how the game has changed because of the new offside laws, and how defensive lines have started to sit deeper] - maybe Sanchez and Walcott are already being used as strikers where they currently are? Maybe wide attack is just where you have to play that type of striker in a lot of games now, because there's no room in the middle? Put an unglamorous battering-ram like Giroud or Welbeck in the middle to push the CBs around, and have your wide forwards follow in behind to pounce on any gaps that they make (or overlap on the counter if anyone's stupid enough to play high)?

Yeah, I see what your saying. It's the same strategy we tried with Chamakh. Space is in the wide areas and I can see that Walcott has stopped playing as a winger and Wenger now has him playing closer to the striker. He dribbles and carries the ball forward far less than he used to and it relates to Wenger telling him to study Ljunberg.

The problem with Ground, Welbeck and Chamakh is that they don't have that explosive movement in the box to worry defenders. They're movement doesn't create space for others. Giroud hardly moves. He'll make a pass and then admire his work. Also, they're not strong enough to be a battering ram like a Drogba type or Adebayor. Defenders don't fear or worry about marking them. That's the problem with it in practice although I understand the theory.

With someone like Sanchez or Theo up front, they lack the physical presence but they have the movement and energy. Playing short one twos in front of the opposition and they'll just ghost past the defenders. Similar to the false 9 Messi played, someone more nimble and quick can play between the lines and make up the ground to get back onto the box. I remember Gervinho played the role once and the movement and chances we created were dangerous.... but it was Gervinho! He couldn't finish.

[Power n Glory]

Oh I definitely agree, I think we have to do that now...I'm just saying ideally we shouldn't be in the position where that is our only realistic option.
To be honest if Wenger wasn't going to buy a striker I'd have preferred us to start with Sanchez up top in pre season. I think the only reason Wenger doesn't do it is because he thinks sticking Walcott on the left will leave Monreal too exposed...my answer to that?? Don't play Monreal hes too fucking slow and is he really that good to begin with?.

Yeah, we really shouldn't be in this position. He should have gave Theo and Sanchez a proper run up front last season. When Ground was in his funk he should have been hooked for Theo but Wenger waited until the very end of the season which was silly. Theo took his chances when player there but the season ended and then Wenger decides to bench him again. It's not good for confidence and momentum especially after having good games up front.

As for Sanchez, Wenger should have stuck by him up front fro much long at the start of the season before we even considered Welbeck. He dilly dailies on these decisions too much and surely he has seen enough of Giroud.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm shit arsed, but the way I see it we're going to win the league.

Never knew Arsene was an alcoholic - but at times like this we see eye to eye.

[Kano]

I disagree, IMO striker was the priority, it's definitely our weakest position.

So you believe none of the points about ageing midfielders who rarely play, inexperience and lack of suitability for a deep central role are valid? That none of the above are true? Even though we have old midfielders who rarely play and an inexperienced DM?

[Maestro]

Yeah, we really shouldn't be in this position. He should have gave Theo and Sanchez a proper run up front last season. When Ground was in his funk he should have been hooked for Theo but Wenger waited until the very end of the season which was silly. Theo took his chances when player there but the season ended and then Wenger decides to bench him again. It's not good for confidence and momentum especially after having good games up front.

As for Sanchez, Wenger should have stuck by him up front fro much long at the start of the season before we even considered Welbeck. He dilly dailies on these decisions too much and surely he has seen enough of Giroud.

Even with the "internal solutions" at his disposal, and transfers aside, he's inept at getting the maximum out of the squad he has. Idiotic decision making at times, repeatedly and quite a few times over ......not calling him an idiot, but gosh this manager sure as hell handicaps us because of his "know it all stubbornness".

[Letters]

So you believe none of the points about ageing midfielders who rarely play, inexperience and lack of suitability for a deep central role are valid? That none of the above are true? Even though we have old midfielders who rarely play and an inexperienced DM?

I think it's valid but I don't think it'll stop us winning the title. The lack of a proper world class striker is more likely to.

[LDG]

I'm shit arsed, but the way I see it we're going to win the league.

Never knew Arsene was an alcoholic - but at times like this we see eye to eye.

:lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think it's valid but I don't think it'll stop us winning the title. The lack of a proper world class striker is more likely to.

Really? You don't think if Coquelin gets injured or suspended we are completely fucked? That's interesting

[Power n Glory]

Really? You don't think if Coquelin gets injured or suspended we are completely fucked? That's interesting

I agree with Letters for once. IF is the key word regarding the DM position. But with the striker position, we certainly are fucked if we're relying on Giroud.

Coquelin might not get injured. Also, Arteta might try to come back with a point to prove if that were to happen. But I've said it before, even if we signed a DM, I don't see it making a major difference to our title chances without a top class striker.

[Heisenberg]

I think that the position we most needed strengthening in at the start of the summer was goalkeeper, which we did. After that, it would be midfield and forward, so I'm still disappointed we didn't do anything in those respects.

[Injury Time]

I think that the position we most needed strengthening in at the start of the summer was goalkeeper, which we did. After that, Wenger is useless lazy cunt, he really should leave as he couldnt find his arse let alone a signing in the midfield and a forward, so I'm still disappointed we didn't do anything in those respects.

:gp:

[Özim]

I think that the position we most needed strengthening in at the start of the summer was goalkeeper, which we did. After that, it would be midfield and forward, so I'm still disappointed we didn't do anything in those respects.

Not convinced, we needed a reliable keeper but I wouldn't have put that top of the list (keepers sometimes have bad seasons and then follow it with a very good season), our keepers weren't disasters, they did make mistakes but all keepers do.

Our lack of a quality DM has hindered us for years as has the lack of an out and out striker since rvp left.

For me a top keeper is last on the list, the outfield players like strikers play a bigger part, we've had keepers that weren't top class (like Lehmann) and still won trophies, having a top keeper is a bonus.

[Özim]

Incidentally IMO we'll never see another Vieira type player at the club whilst Wenger is here, which is surprising as he was such a key signing, he made such a huge difference from the day he arrived, you only need to look at the impact Toure has at Man City to understands the merits of such a player, Wenger however has different ideas he doesn't seem to bring any kind of physicality into his team, preferring ball players (too many of them).

[Kano]

Incidentally IMO we'll never see another Vieira type player at the club whilst Wenger is here, which is surprising as he was such a key signing, he made such a huge difference from the day he arrived, you only need to look at the impact Toure has at Man City to understands the merits of such a player, Wenger however has different ideas he doesn't seem to bring any kind of physicality into his team, preferring ball players (too many of them).

He seems to believe a 33 year old non-DM who played 11 times last season and never starts a game, a 31-year old who is only here because he couldn't agree terms with Galatasaray and is hardly even on the bench, another 31-year old who obviously prefers attacking more than helping Coquelin, Wilshere who is injured more than he plays and a guy he lucked out with who has yet to play a full season of football in this league - all have enough amongst them to suddenly improve the heartbeat of our midfield. It's quite astonishing really.

[Özim]

He seems to believe a 33 year old non-DM who played 11 times last season and never starts a game, a 31-year old who is only here because he couldn't agree terms with Galatasaray and is hardly even on the bench, another 31-year old who obviously prefers attacking more than helping Coquelin, Wilshere who is injured more than he plays and a guy he lucked out with who has yet to play a full season of football in this league - all have enough amongst them to suddenly improve the heartbeat of our midfield. It's quite astonishing really.

I know some people say Wenger isn't an idiot, but he does show a lot of evidence that's he's not all that smart at times with his decision making, he talks a good game however.

[fakeyank]

Why is this thread still open?