Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ozil, Sanchez, Walcott and Cazorla are all starting line up players. We'd be looking more so at Welbeck, Wilshere, Ramsey and Ox to fill gaps and those guys aren't that reliable in the big games either.

As said, we're not going to spend £20m on DM cover so just get over it. We need more fire power for the first team starters. If Arteta is starting game ahead of Coquelin, i'd see your point but if he's not, this is all a fuss about nothing.

Just because you say something doesn't make it so, unfortunately like most seasons where we fail to strengthen our squad sufficiently to put on a laudable title challenge I will have to "get over it". But nothing you will say will convince me it's not reckless abandon to only have one capable defensive midfielder in the side, it's the point I'm making between quality and quantity. Arguably I think we should be signing a 30-40million DM who is better at being the focal point turning defence into attack than Coquelin and having him as the understudy, but hey I'm not the manager.
There is nothing wrong with Arteta apart from the fact that he's not a defensive midfielder and hasn't the legs to sustain a title run in, in that position (five years ago possibly) and I'm much more concerned about that than welbeck or oxlade chamberlain having to step up to fill in.
If you're saying to me that a striker is of great importance, you'll get no argument from me....I think going in with Giroud as essentially our only out and out striker is equally reckless, but I personally hold a defensive midfielder of equal importance....and the likelihood is that we will sign neither. As from Wengers own mouth he seems to feel that transfer activity from Arsenal is about recruiting a player he happens to like if he becomes availability rather than strengthening key positions.

[Penguin]

I'm warming more to the idea of signing a wide forward like Reus or Draxler and giving Sanchez a go at CF. Wenger needs to be a bit creative if the players he wants aren't available.

[Power n Glory]

Just because you say something doesn't make it so, unfortunately like most seasons where we fail to strengthen our squad sufficiently to put on a laudable title challenge I will have to "get over it". But nothing you will say will convince me it's not reckless abandon to only have one capable defensive midfielder in the side, it's the point I'm making between quality and quantity. Arguably I think we should be signing a 30-40million DM who is better at being the focal point turning defence into attack than Coquelin and having him as the understudy, but hey I'm not the manager.
There is nothing wrong with Arteta apart from the fact that he's not a defensive midfielder and hasn't the legs to sustain a title run in, in that position (five years ago possibly) and I'm much more concerned about that than welbeck or oxlade chamberlain having to step up to fill in.
If you're saying to me that a striker is of great importance, you'll get no argument from me....I think going in with Giroud as essentially our only out and out striker is equally reckless, but I personally hold a defensive midfielder of equal importance....and the likelihood is that we will sign neither. As from Wengers own mouth he seems to feel that transfer activity from Arsenal is about recruiting a player he happens to like if he becomes availability rather than strengthening key positions.

As long as Arteta isn't starting ahead of Coquelin, I'm fine because Coquelin was performing at a top level last season. One of the best DM's in the league. I'm ok with that. Far from an Arteta fan but I think our new team ethos on defending together should benefit him if called upon and he can play at a high level on occassions. I've criticised his performances often but believe his flaws are exposed further when playing with Wilshere and Ramsey.

Also, I forgot that Calum Chambers can possibly play as DM. Wenger may also go to the market looking for a CB that can also play as DM.
We have that new kid in reserves we bought last season in January as well. We have options and we may fibd the quality there but until we bring in a quality forward, I just don't see any point in stressing over a position we already have a very good starter for.

[selassie]

I don't completely buy the 'if somebody becomes available line'. I think you have to make players available by showing the colour of your money at times. Then suddenly unavailable becomes available.

As most know, I have no fundamental problem with Arteta but I also have no issue with having 2 top players in each 11 positions. Let the better of the two come to the fore.... There are players around the globe who could seriously push Coquelin and for less than 20 million.

I will accept whatever the manager's decision is on a central midfielder but I think we really need to be adding another devastating attacking player to the fold. Preferably a CF (as Walcott and Alexis are capable of 20 goals) but a wide forward capable of 20+ goals (from a wide position that is) would have a significant impact and take the pressure off Giroud/Welbeck.

:gp:

This, especially the part I highlighted. NQ already touched on it in an earlier post, there are players available, we just need to be assertive in our pursuit. It saddens me that Wenger seems to have reverted to type, this laissez faire attitude will get us nowhere, there are areas of the team/squad that need upgrading, our team/squad isn't perfect, it's strong I'll accept that but there is room for improvement. Our rivals are all upgrading problem positions in their team/squad, why aren't we?

[Power n Glory]

All predictable stuff. Wenger said before not for us to expect massive signings this window and I knew we'd find out more once training started. I'm just hoping he sees the weak areas in the coming weeks. Giroud can't play as our main striker. We need a 30 goal machine to lead the way. It's the most obvious weak area at the moment.

[Letters]

When does Wenger ever say anything about transfer dealings which reveals anything helpful?
I honestly don't know why anyone is analysing anything he says and inferring anything from it.

[I am invisible]

I'm honestly not sure what I'd do, re: defensive midfielders this summer?

On the one hand, if our preferred formation and best XI includes a midfield destroyer, then it only makes sense to double-up on that type of player, and get some quality back-up / competition for them, for all the usual reasons.

On the other, there seems to be a growing opinion in the game that the role of the midfield destroyer is becoming a little redundant (certainly at the 'elite' level)? Quality holding midfielders and deep-lying play-makers are still valued highly, and, whilst you're always going to want players who are able to win the ball back when they have to, I kind of think that should be expected from every outfield player now? In general, the most successful of the top European sides seem increasingly unwilling to sacrifice a valuable place in the team for a purely destructive player - first and foremost, every player is expected to be comfortable in possession, and able to contribute confidently and positively with the ball. To that end, Coquelin himself could be viewed as the back-up option for a first-choice midfield that's built around players like Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla, Rosicky, etc? An emergency measure to turn to if we're getting overrun, or if we want to see a comfortable game out, but not necessarily an option that we need to use for 90 minutes of every game? If he's used more sparingly / tactically, then we may actually be alright with the options we have?

I think I'm happy to go either way on this? If we sign a top-quality defensive midfielder, then far out! If not, then I won't be unduly bothered if we focus on the attack* and defence.

(*One caveat - if the plan is to start using Ramsey, Wilshere et al. in those deeper midfield roles, and not invest in a new midfielder, then we really will need an extra man in attack, if only to cover for the loss of Ramsey.)

[Dein-machine]

When does Wenger ever say anything about transfer dealings which reveals anything helpful?
I honestly don't know why anyone is analysing anything he says and inferring anything from it.

I don't know of any manager that reveals too much about transfer dealings. I agree its not worth trying to analyse Wengers comments but I think the issue is that unlike other managers he doesn't seem to have any plans going into a transfer window & this attitude of "lets see what come available" & "we will add if the right quality player is available" just seems clueless. Other managers end the season knowing the weaknesses & spend the summer trying to put those things right. We have strengthened the starting line up with Cech but it is obvious to all Arsenal fans that we need another quality CB,DM & striker, especially with our history of injuries. Just to take the DM situation, we have not bid for Schneiderlein, Vidal or Carvalho - all players seemingly available at affordable prices & would improve our starting 11. He says that the only reason other teams are paying lots of money for new players is because they are all worried about the teams around them - too bloody right Arsene, so should you be.

[Dein-machine]

All predictable stuff. Wenger said before not for us to expect massive signings this window and I knew we'd find out more once training started. I'm just hoping he sees the weak areas in the coming weeks. Giroud can't play as our main striker. We need a 30 goal machine to lead the way. It's the most obvious weak area at the moment.

Don't you think he's been there long enough & is paid well enough to already know our weak areas prior to pre-season training. You & I both now them & we're not paid £8 mill a year to address it.

[Penguin]

Wenger's had the whole of last season to check out the squad, I don't understand what new things he's expecting to see now. He's seen most of these players day in day out in training for years so he should know enough about his players and their weaknesses. He's not fooling anyone though, he's so obviously trying to delay the pressure to buy for a few weeks.

[Bumble]

still surprised a bit that people think only have coquelin is the answer. he played Jan to May and that's it. Surely we need someone else there. The other thing we ended the season well, but we end most seasons well when we are out of the CL. So was Coq driving the improved performances or was it our usual end of season run. Coq did do a good job but I don't think we should be getting carried away about him being the best DM in the league.

I don't expect us to sign any more than 2 more players and then I really only expect us to sign one more and probably knowing Wenger it will be a mini-attacker type.

[I am invisible]

£6m bid on the table for Joel Campbell from Sociedad - if that's accepted, then that'll be Campbell and Podolski sold, Diaby released, and Sanogo and Jenks out on loan (so far)... regardless of the ins, it does at least look like we're having a damn good clear-out!

I suppose it's too much to hope that we're actually making room for something...

[Özim]

Is that what strengthening a squad is about -"finding a miraculous player who wins you everything"? And are we seriously using the FA Cup as a measure of our capability to compete with the top teams in Europe? And isn't it taken for granted the squad moves forward together? Is this automatically the opportunity cost of dipping into the transfer market?

If the manager isn't throwing a smokescreen here then it sounds like our summer is done and dusted. In which case, it will be an intersting battle with Utd for 3rd. But not an inspiring one.

Typical Wenger this, the team have a good run at the end of the season and he thinks they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and are about to dominate football for the foreseeable future.

He never learns unfortunately, else he would have had targets and maybe signed them by now. Hisstubborness is the main reason we're also rans these days.

Yes of course people will say when does he ever give anything away, the question should be when does he actually do enough to address the problem areas by signing adequate players.

[Power n Glory]

Don't you think he's been there long enough & is paid well enough to already know our weak areas prior to pre-season training. You & I both now them & we're not paid £8 mill a year to address it.

The weak area is up front for sure. But I think we have possibly internal solutions. We can give Theo a run up front for starters and see how he fairs. Wenger should have given Theo a run last season ages ago instead of leaving him on the bench for so long. Also, he could try Sanchez or Welbeck. Some preseason games may sort out the movememt problems we had with them when tried last season.

I can kinda understand the hold up with the striker situation this year. But we really should have signed someone 3 or 4 windows ago.

[Kano]

We've got Alex Iwobi, we'll be fine. He'll bury those Singaporeans for shizure.

[GP]

Reckon he might give Akpom a shot.

[Dein-machine]

The weak area is up front for sure. But I think we have possibly internal solutions. We can give Theo a run up front for starters and see how he fairs. Wenger should have given Theo a run last season ages ago instead of leaving him on the bench for so long. Also, he could try Sanchez or Welbeck. Some preseason games may sort out the movememt problems we had with them when tried last season.

I can kinda understand the hold up with the striker situation this year. But we really should have signed someone 3 or 4 windows ago.

Agree with this - but forgetting our C.L. opposition for the moment ( the forward options for Barca & Madrid are beyond our means ), we have to compete with the likes of City & Chelsea who don't go into a new season wondering who will be their main striker or wondering if they can adapt a winger to become the main striker. Wenger will do this, in the hope that Theo hits the ground running or that Giroud amazingly becomes the best finisher in world football.
Everyone has seen enough of Theo & Giroud to know they are not lethal enough infront of goal & they never will be - everyone bar our manager.

[Power n Glory]

Agree with this - but forgetting our C.L. opposition for the moment ( the forward options for Barca & Madrid are beyond our means ), we have to compete with the likes of City & Chelsea who don't go into a new season wondering who will be their main striker or wondering if they can adapt a winger to become the main striker. Wenger will do this, in the hope that Theo hits the ground running or that Giroud amazingly becomes the best finisher in world football.
Everyone has seen enough of Theo & Giroud to know they are not lethal enough infront of goal & they never will be - everyone bar our manager.

That's where we differ. I've always said Theo could be a dangerous striker and that's where he should be starting games. He's more likely to score a hat trick and keep up a relentless attack compared to Giroud. But yes, we shouldn't be going into the season in this position. Not at all. But i'd be even more pissed if Wenger decides to start the season with Giroud upfront and go with the tried and tested.

[Dein-machine]

That's where we differ. I've always said Theo could be a dangerous striker and that's where he should be starting games. He's more likely to score a hat trick and keep up a relentless attack compared to Giroud. But yes, we shouldn't be going into the season in this position. Not at all. But i'd be even more pissed if Wenger decides to start the season with Giroud upfront and go with the tried and tested.

Yes we do differ - Arsenal football club shouldn't be looking to play a striker who "could" be dangerous. If we are to compete we have to have a striker who is dangerous & able to score 30+ goals a year. Theo is not composed enough infront of goal & physically he is a chocolate teapot. Giroud should be at Stoke. Its normally a fair shout to say that whoever scores the most goals wins the league. With this in mind we can't have "could be good" players in such key positions on the pitch.

[I am invisible]

I suppose an encouraging thought is that, even though we only finished 2 goals shy of Chelsea's total last year, there's every reason to expect more goals out of this current group of midfielders and attackers? Sanchez, Giroud and Cazorla (from his deeper role) all weighed in with the kind of numbers that I would have hoped/expected from them, but we missed out on a lot of goals through Walcott's absence, and I don't see why we shouldn't be looking at guys like Welbeck(8), Wilshere(2), Ozil(5) and Oxlade-Chamberlain(3) to be doubling (or getting close to doubling) their season-totals next time around? Even Ramsey was down on his previous season's contribution (10 in 41 down from 16 in 34).

Obviously the main concern with this is keeping everyone fit enough to deliver...

[Dein-machine]

I suppose an encouraging thought is that, even though we only finished 2 goals shy of Chelsea's total last year, there's every reason to expect more goals out of this current group of midfielders and attackers? Sanchez, Giroud and Cazorla (from his deeper role) all weighed in with the kind of numbers that I would have hoped/expected from them, but we missed out on a lot of goals through Walcott's absence, and I don't see why we shouldn't be looking at guys like Welbeck(8), Wilshere(2), Ozil(5) and Oxlade-Chamberlain(3) to be doubling (or getting close to doubling) their season-totals next time around? Even Ramsey was down on his previous season's contribution (10 in 41 down from 16 in 34).

Obviously the main concern with this is keeping everyone fit enough to deliver...

To me this emphasizes the need for a proven goalscorer. If Maureen hadn't splashed out on Costa & "done a Wenger" hoping he could convert a wide player or expect Remy to suddenly become World class (like we seem to think will happen with Giroud) then I would strongly suggest Chelsea wouldn't have won the league. As you mention, we have a good spread of goals in the team with room for improvement - put a 30+ goals proven striker in there & you have a chance.

[I am invisible]

Reckon he might give Akpom a shot.

Just banged in a hattrick in our first friendly...

[Power n Glory]

Yes we do differ - Arsenal football club shouldn't be looking to play a striker who "could" be dangerous. If we are to compete we have to have a striker who is dangerous & able to score 30+ goals a year. Theo is not composed enough infront of goal & physically he is a chocolate teapot. Giroud should be at Stoke. Its normally a fair shout to say that whoever scores the most goals wins the league. With this in mind we can't have "could be good" players in such key positions on the pitch.

Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

I don't think you can add Giroud into that bracket, he's not a young up and coming he's as good as he's ever going to be and that's not good enough.
He is Sylvain Wiltord for 2015, a decent squad striker but shouldn't be playing week in, week out.
Theo has been with us ten years if he was going to make it as an out and out striker he would have done so by now, he can function as part of an interchangeable front three with similar players....but actually on his own up front....not in a million years...he doesn't hold up the ball well enough or have the reading of the game.
And then you have Welbeck who for England actually plays well as a central striker but that's because he has Rooney playing behind him.

[I am invisible]

To me this emphasizes the need for a proven goalscorer. If Maureen hadn't splashed out on Costa & "done a Wenger" hoping he could convert a wide player or expect Remy to suddenly become World class (like we seem to think will happen with Giroud) then I would strongly suggest Chelsea wouldn't have won the league. As you mention, we have a good spread of goals in the team with room for improvement - put a 30+ goals proven striker in there & you have a chance.

Mate, I doubt you'll find any Arsenal fan out there who's wish-list doesn't start with a world-class (or potentially world-class), 30-goal-a-season forward! If we can do it, then I'm all for it.

For what it's worth, I don't think Wenger would hesitate either, if a player of that standard suddenly came on the market - the problem, as I see it though, is that I don't think he's interested in anything less than that, and that's where we currently find ourselves. We'll either do a shock deal for someone awesome, or we won't do anything. Unfortunately we all know which one of those scenarios is more likely, but it is probably he right call - anything less than the very best doesn't really improve us.

Honestly though, there seems to be veeeeeeeeeeeeery little happening out there right now in terms of elite-level CFs moving around. Apart from Jackson Martinez (and I would hesitate to call him truly world-class just yet), has anyone else moved anywhere? Does anyone even look close?

[Dein-machine]

Dude, come on! Anelka, Henry, Adebayor, RVP....this is what Arsenal football club have been doing for a long time now with strikers. It's cool if you don't think it's the right way to go for this year but talking as if this isn't something we do as a club or below us just ignores a lot of what we've done successfully.

We've been more success at creating our own type of striker than actually going out and buying a ready made one under Wenger.

Only Henry was a converted wide player from those you mention - the rest were bought as strikers. All of those made an impact within a year or two, how long do you want to give Theo - another few years maybe?
I would suggest not buying the correct players for correct positions has been disastrous for us - not a success. Henry was an amazing buy but he had natural ability that Theo can only dream about & he was big enough to take what defenders like to dish out. He is the only success in this case. Not buying a quality, proven goalscorer since RVP left whilst he has bought the likes of Giroud, Welbeck & Sonogo is terrible management from Wenger. It also would suggest that even Wenger doesn't think Theo can fit the role to buy the dross he has & put them in ahead of him.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think you can add Giroud into that bracket, he's not a young up and coming he's as good as he's ever going to be and that's not good enough.
He is Sylvain Wiltord for 2015, a decent squad striker but shouldn't be playing week in, week out.
Theo has been with us ten years if he was going to make it as an out and out striker he would have done so by now, he can function as part of an interchangeable front three with similar players....but actually on his own up front....not in a million years...he doesn't hold up the ball well enough or have the reading of the game.
And then you have Welbeck who for England actually plays well as a central striker but that's because he has Rooney playing behind him.


Where did I mention Giroud? That last paragraph I wrote applies to Giroud.

As for all the talk on what Walcott can and can't do, I heard the same being said about Coquelin whilst loaned out to Charlton. Until a player gets a good run of games we'll never know and so far Walcott has done well up front so far. Sounds so foolish when people say he can't play there.

I'm all for buying a striker this year but I'm not against Wenger trying something new up top.

[Dein-machine]

Mate, I doubt you'll find any Arsenal fan out there who's wish-list doesn't start with a world-class (or potentially world-class), 30-goal-a-season forward! If we can do it, then I'm all for it.

For what it's worth, I don't think Wenger would hesitate either, if a player of that standard suddenly came on the market - the problem, as I see it though, is that I don't think he's interested in anything less than that, and that's where we currently find ourselves. We'll either do a shock deal for someone awesome, or we won't do anything. Unfortunately we all know which one of those scenarios is more likely, but it is probably he right call - anything less than the very best doesn't really improve us.

Honestly though, there seems to be veeeeeeeeeeeeery little happening out there right now in terms of elite-level CFs moving around. Apart from Jackson Martinez (and I would hesitate to call him truly world-class just yet), has anyone else moved anywhere? Does anyone even look close?

I agree - its hard to come up with an Aguero/Suarez type striker that would fit the bill but where were we when Liverpool bought Suarez or when City bought Aguero - too busy trying to turn Bendtner into a player or thinking Giroud was the answer.
Last year Dybala had made a name for himself as the new Aguero. Juventus get in quick & snap him up. Where were we again?
If these type of players are like rocking horse shit, we have to be more pro-active in getting to them before others, especially in key positions on the pitch.

[Syn]

Tbh the Giroud we saw this season is good enough to lead a title challenge. He was scoring at a good rate and his general all-round play is right up there with any striker in Europe IMO. He's actually more of a creative player than a goalscorer. Walcott is the polar opposite, very selfish but will guarantee you goals. I'm sure if Walcott played up top for a full season without injuries he'd match Harry Kane and get 30 goals. But would the team be better off? I don't know. As much as people like to claim strikers should be selfish, it is ultimately a team game and your strikers need to be aware of options around them. A mix of Walcott and Giroud is Van Persie. He was perfect, for the 3 years he was injury free. Hard to find a player like that right now.

[Power n Glory]

Only Henry was a converted wide player from those you mention - the rest were bought as strikers. All of those made an impact within a year or two, how long do you want to give Theo - another few years maybe?
I would suggest not buying the correct players for correct positions has been disastrous for us - not a success. Henry was an amazing buy but he had natural ability that Theo can only dream about & he was big enough to take what defenders like to dish out. He is the only success in this case. Not buying a quality, proven goalscorer since RVP left whilst he has bought the likes of Giroud, Welbeck & Sonogo is terrible management from Wenger. It also would suggest that even Wenger doesn't think Theo can fit the role to buy the dross he has & put them in ahead of him.


RVP wasn't a striker when we bought him or a proven goal scorer, neither were Anelka and Adebayor for that matter. None of them were dead on certs to score 30 goals a season and that's the point I'm making. Refutes your point about us not being a club that goes into seasons taking a gamble on players that could be dangerous.

In fact, unless I'm mistaken, weren't you arguing the other week that we should push out Arteta and Rosicky to try out our young reserve players that have zero first team experience?

[Syn]

Also, is Welbeck better than Akpom? Wenger's (hopefully) last panic buy has it all to do.

[GP]

Just banged in a hattrick in our first friendly...

Against the mighty Singapore Select XI, no less.

Job done.

[Power n Glory]

Tbh the Giroud we saw this season is good enough to lead a title challenge. He was scoring at a good rate and his general all-round play is right up there with any striker in Europe IMO. He's actually more of a creative player than a goalscorer. Walcott is the polar opposite, very selfish but will guarantee you goals. I'm sure if Walcott played up top for a full season without injuries he'd match Harry Kane and get 30 goals. But would the team be better off? I don't know. As much as people like to claim strikers should be selfish, it is ultimately a team game and your strikers need to be aware of options around them. A mix of Walcott and Giroud is Van Persie. He was perfect, for the 3 years he was injury free. Hard to find a player like that right now.

Seeing how Giorud was able to learn how to link up with the team and get the passes flowing, do you think it's possible for Walcott to learn? RVP had to learn that also and was a very selfish player when we bought him.

[I am invisible]

I agree - its hard to come up with an Aguero/Suarez type striker that would fit the bill but where were we when Liverpool bought Suarez or when City bought Aguero - too busy trying to turn Bendtner into a player or thinking Giroud was the answer.
Last year Dybala had made a name for himself as the new Aguero. Juventus get in quick & snap him up. Where were we again?
If these type of players are like rocking horse shit, we have to be more pro-active in getting to them before others, especially in key positions on the pitch.

Again, I don't think you'll find many gooners who disagree with the sentiment (although, to be fair, I think we were generally still too busy being skint when Suarez and Aguero first moved to Liverpool and City back in 2011?)

But, yeah, we definitely need to get our scouting network doing it's shit again, especially now we have the means to do something about it.

I don't really know enough about Dybala to be able to say whether he's worth the hype yet, but it feels like there's a general shortage of those kind of up-and-coming talents too? I suppose there's Lacazette at Lyon, but he's not that young at 24, and not really a million miles off what we have in Walcott. Is anyone tearing up the Dutch league these days? Or Belgium? Eastern Europe? Anyone other than the obvious big names who we should be looking at in the big leagues?

[I am invisible]

Also, is Welbeck better than Akpom? Wenger's (hopefully) last panic buy has it all to do.

Welbeck is an impressive combination of attributes at the moment, but sadly not too much more just yet.

I have hope for the lad though - if we can get 30 goals out of AdebayEeyore, then surely we can help Danny towards at least the mid-teens? Surely?

[I am invisible]

Seeing how Giorud was able to learn how to link up with the team and get the passes flowing, do you think it's possible for Walcott to learn? RVP had to learn that also and was a very selfish player when we bought him.

Maybe we just need to treat them more as cogs in a machine? On their own, both players may have a couple of deficiencies that stop them being considered truly top class - Giroud lacks the pace, so it's easy to play a high line against him, and Walcott lacks the strength and hold-up play, so it's easy to sit deep... put them in the same XI, and all of a sudden you're giving opponents something to worry about (especially when you also have someone like Sanchez alongside them who can do the lot)...

[Bumble]

Again, I don't think you'll find many gooners who disagree with the sentiment (although, to be fair, I think we were generally still too busy being skint when Suarez and Aguero first moved to Liverpool and City back in 2011?)



I don't think we were ever skint really, if you can pay a manager £7m a year and have 3rd highest wage bill in the country. you are not skint. I think at one stage we were paying £1m a week more in salaries than Spurs were.

[I am invisible]

I don't think we were ever skint really, if you can pay a manager £7m a year and have 3rd highest wage bill in the country. you are not skint. I think at one stage we were paying £1m a week more in salaries than Spurs were.

Could we do both though (big salaries and big transfer fees)? Bearing in mind the kind of player we're talking about here. I'm sure we could have pinched a bit of money here and there from our wage bill, but I don't think it would have gone very far...

[fakeyank]

I am perfectly fine going into the season with Welbeck, Akpom and Giroud as hold up strikers with the possibility of Theo and Sanchez playing there too. Unless Suarez becomes available again for 40 million quid and 1 pound, there is no one else I can see realistically who can improve us.

IF we are talking about converting Reus and the likes, I think we should show a little more patience with Welbeck. This guy has all the characteristics to be a Sturridge type striker but so far I havent been impressed!

There is only one position that needs strengthening and we dont have a single good back for- Defensive Midfielder. Besides Coq, there is not one good player for that position. Arteta and Flamini are horribly out of their depth and the rest of the CM's cant play that position half as well as Le Coq. This is the reason we need to get someone like Wanayama. We wasted a perfectly good opportunity to get someone like Cabaye and Schneiderlin.. lets not let another one get out of hand too!

[Dein-machine]

RVP wasn't a striker when we bought him or a proven goal scorer, neither were Anelka and Adebayor for that matter. None of them were dead on certs to score 30 goals a season and that's the point I'm making. Refutes your point about us not being a club that goes into seasons taking a gamble on players that could be dangerous.

In fact, unless I'm mistaken, weren't you arguing the other week that we should push out Arteta and Rosicky to try out our young reserve players that have zero first team experience?

Yes I was arguing that but as I pointed out to you I was talking about the squad. When it comes to the starting 11 we have to have quality to compete.
My squad point is highlighted again today. We have played Flamini today - why?. What don't we already know about a fairly average player ( normally what you get when you pay nothing for someone ) that struggled last year to even make the bench with the emergence of Coq. He is simply taking up a space in the squad & getting game time ahead of the likes of Zelalem & BielIk.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Yes we do differ - Arsenal football club shouldn't be looking to play a striker who "could" be dangerous. If we are to compete we have to have a striker who is dangerous & able to score 30+ goals a year. Theo is not composed enough infront of goal & physically he is a chocolate teapot. Giroud should be at Stoke. Its normally a fair shout to say that whoever scores the most goals wins the league. With this in mind we can't have "could be good" players in such key positions on the pitch.
Probably the best point you've made in some time.

Though I would ask....who do you think we should be pursuing.


I agree - its hard to come up with an Aguero/Suarez type striker that would fit the bill but where were we when Liverpool bought Suarez or when City bought Aguero - too busy trying to turn Bendtner into a player or thinking Giroud was the answer.
Last year Dybala had made a name for himself as the new Aguero. Juventus get in quick & snap him up. Where were we again?
If these type of players are like rocking horse shit, we have to be more pro-active in getting to them before others, especially in key positions on the pitch.

Dybala seems to lack the physicality and power Aguero has, even if he has the balance and poise. Signing him would have hardly been without its risk. Also I think we should appreciate that when Liverpool bought Suarez it still represented something of a risk, though if I were the scout commissioned to watch him at the time personally, for 50 games, I don't imagine I'd have been up to my neck in doubt.

[Dein-machine]

Probably the best point you've made in some time.

Though I would ask....who do you think we should be pursuing.



Dybala seems to lack the physicality and power Aguero has, even if he has the balance and poise. Signing him would have hardly been without its risk. Also I think we should appreciate that when Liverpool bought Suarez it still represented something of a risk, though if I were the scout commissioned to watch him at the time personally, for 50 games, I don't imagine I'd have been up to my neck in doubt.

Thanks for your kind words - personally at the momens I would take a punt on Lacazette. He's pacey & finishes well, a bit more of an Arsenal type striker than a Giroud or a Welbeck.

[Power n Glory]

Reports say Lyon want €60m. I can't see Wenger spending that sort of money on this guy.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I feel reluctant to sign him on the back of a good season, which is the mistake we made with Olivier Giroud.

[I am invisible]

Being linked with a lot of defenders this summer? Mostly from Italy. How much of that do you think is genuine?

[Dein-machine]

I feel reluctant to sign him on the back of a good season, which is the mistake we made with Olivier Giroud.

The mistake we made with Giroud is that he is not the kind of attacking player that suits our football. The last forward we had like him was Smudger. Quick attacking play has been our style not playing off a CF.
I'd be more happy to sign Lacazette after a good season as opposed to a bad one!

[Dein-machine]

Reports say Lyon want €60m. I can't see Wenger spending that sort of money on this guy.

I agree with you, not suggesting he's worth €60 mill but quality strikers are now like rocking horse shit & i'm afraid thats the kind of money we're going to have to pay. We won't & we'll run with Giroud or Welbeck, or continue in the hope that one day Theo will get out of bed & be as good as Henry.

[Power n Glory]

I agree with you, not suggesting he's worth €60 mill but quality strikers are now like rocking horse shit & i'm afraid thats the kind of money we're going to have to pay. We won't & we'll run with Giroud or Welbeck, or continue in the hope that one day Theo will get out of bed & be as good as Henry.

It’s a big investment for someone that might not be able to adapt. I can understand why Wenger would be reluctant to cough up the money on this one because he creates lethal strikers for fun like Anelka, Henry, RVP and even Adebayor for a fraction of the cost. He’s even getting the best out of Giroud but it’s not enough in my opinion because he lacks pace and confidence in front of goal at times. I think he’d be able to a hell of a lot more out of Sanchez and Walcott up front but he’s always been a bit reluctant to try a pint sized player up front.

Eduardo was the last small striker we bought and he’d have him playing on the flanks despite his ridiculous finishing ability. It’s something Wenger needs to get over because I’m sure he’d play Aguero on the wing if he had him. If you look at Welbeck the only possibly explanation for his inclusion ahead of Theo up front is his height. We’re missing a trick here and you only have to look at Theo’s games up front to see the proof. He’s had more good games than bad by a long stretch.

Not against Wenger investing either. I’m mainly against him going into the season with the same strategy. Try a two man strike force that doesn’t compromise on midfield dominance and creativity, anything as long as the weakness exposed up front last season and seasons before aren’t on display for us again this season. That is what will piss me off more than going into the next season without many new signings. Having faith in the same system which keeps failing is what really irks me most. Try something else.

[Niall_Quinn]

Media reporting Vidal is close to a £28mill move to Bayern. It's inexplicable we aren't in the hunt at that price. Bayern are moving quickly to plug their gaps though. They aren't waiting to see this, that or the other.

[Dein-machine]

Media reporting Vidal is close to a £28mill move to Bayern. It's inexplicable we aren't in the hunt at that price. Bayern are moving quickly to plug their gaps though. They aren't waiting to see this, that or the other.

Agreed but I'm afraid it simply shows the different ambitions of the clubs. Bayern want to win the German league every year & get into Champions league finals - we simply want 3rd or 4th place so we are happy to run with Coq & hope he doesn't get injured.
This transfer window will simply show that Wengers reign can't come to end soon enough, if we do indeed want to compete at the top level.

[Özim]

Media reporting Vidal is close to a £28mill move to Bayern. It's inexplicable we aren't in the hunt at that price. Bayern are moving quickly to plug their gaps though. They aren't waiting to see this, that or the other.
Big ambitious clubs with top manager's don't wait around to see what every else does or what happens, they make things happen and create opportunities to bring in players.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think it's still hubris rather than lack of ambition, Wenger wants to be lauded as a genius who can win things by unearthing gems rather than purchasing established stars. The problem is for him, is that the youngsters he used to be able to sign for 500k are now going to clubs for about thirty times that amount, and those he is plucking from obscurity like Bielik are either far too young or not at the level to put them into the first team.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's still hubris rather than lack of ambition, Wenger wants to be lauded as a genius who can win things by unearthing gems rather than purchasing established stars. The problem is for him, is that the youngsters he used to be able to sign for 500k are now going to clubs for about thirty times that amount, and those he is plucking from obscurity like Bielik are either far too young or not at the level to put them into the first team.

I think he’s beyond that stage since signing Sanchez and Ozil. He has to be. I just think he wants to give Jack and Ramsey some their shot in the team plus we have that home grown player rule to consider. It’s a damn shame we’re not in for Vidal but Wenger never spends big on CM’s either and he should because it’s not as if he’s got a strong history of developing quality CM’s compared to his record on strikers. As much as I want Wilshere and Ramsey to flourish this season, we can’t really hang about for them. This really needs to be their last chance to have first dibs on the starting sheet. That CM role makes a big difference on the speed of our game and passing fluency. You see a huge difference in our game when you replace Wilshere or Ramsey in that role for someone like Rosicky or Cazorla. They just see the moves and think quicker. Makes a huge difference.

[Letters]

It was never a 'stage'. We didn't have the money. Now we do, he's spending it.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Media reporting Vidal is close to a £28mill move to Bayern. It's inexplicable we aren't in the hunt at that price. Bayern are moving quickly to plug their gaps though. They aren't waiting to see this, that or the other.
Shitcuntfuckingbollockarsewankerfucker.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know I think Ozil was signed to mollify the fans, don't get me wrong Wenger would never sign a player he didn't rate but it was a marquee signing for the sake of making one.
Sanchez I think was a case of bringing in quality to replace the quality we've lost where we spent so many seasons selling our best players.
And perhaps for marketing reasons, Wenger has been encouraged to make a signing that has the dual effect of strengthening his squad and selling replica shirts.
But I think you ask him, and he would still say he prefers to make stars rather than buy them, he has a contemptuous view of the transfer market. And actually in many ways I totally agree with him, in an ideal world his way would be better but we live in a sporting world of ready made success and it kinda of winds fans like myself up when we pay so much that the manager is too stubborn to go the extra mile to build a world class squad.

[Letters]

When did Wenger ever do anything to appease the fans?! :lol:
I kinda admire Wenger's stance too, but it has to be mixed with some pragmatism and over the last couple of years - with the new financial deals in place - it has been.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

£32.5 MILLION POUNDS for Benteke!

:cry: :faint:

[GP]

Christian BenHeskey ahahaha lolololol I just made that up honest.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

When did Wenger ever do anything to appease the fans?! :lol:
I kinda admire Wenger's stance too, but it has to be mixed with some pragmatism and over the last couple of years - with the new financial deals in place - it has been.

I think the relationship between Wenger and the fans was at its lowest point in August 2003, no signings and a 1-3 defeat to Aston Villa at home, so I think the Ozil signing was partly at least to win the fans back on side.

[Power n Glory]

It was never a 'stage'. We didn't have the money. Now we do, he's spending it.

Big misconception about our money situation.

Examples

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/arsenal/english-football-teams/arsenal-transfers

Season 07/08



Samir Nasri £15,800,000
Aaron Ramsey £5,000,000
Luke Freeman £200,000
Lassana Diarra £4,000,000
Bakari Sagna £6,000,000

Munich signed Ribery for less than £20m and Liverpool signed Torres for £25m that same year I think. We could afford one of them at least. The following season we sell Hleb and Flamini but go into the season with only Bischoff and Silvestre as our Summer signings. A bloody disgraceful summer that. But some how come winter we manage to find almost £16m to sign Arshavin in January on deadline day.


Season 11/12
Carl Jenkinson Free
Gervinho £10,600,000
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain £12,000,000
Joel Campbell £950,000
Park Chu-Young £3,000,000
André Santos £6,200,000
Mikel Arteta £10,000,000
Per Mertesacker £10,000,000
Thomas Eisfeld £475,000

We went for quantity over quality and a good chunk of those players are gone now. At least £20m down the toilet right there and that doesn't include wages.

We've had money to spend. It doesn't matter if it's come from selling players, the problem is we've spent badly.

[I am invisible]

Unless there's a glaring hole in the side, or we're planning for someone's long-term replacement, then the impression I get is that Wenger is more or less happy with his squad as it is, and is only really on the lookout for the odd exceptional player who is literally too good
to pass up on?

I can see there being some truth to some of these CB and LB rumours that we keep seeing, given that 3/4s of our first choice back 4 will be in their 30s this season, but beyond that I think we're looking at opportunistic moves, if someone awesome comes along who is clearly miles better than someone we have in the same role...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

£32.5 MILLION POUNDS for Benteke!

:cry: :faint:

When you see things like that you can almost understand why Wenger doesn't want to participate in the transfer market

[Letters]

Big misconception about our money situation.
In your examples you're only considering players bought, not those sold. The net situation is the more significant one.
It's only in the last few years we've had a big net spend, when the new financial deals were in place.

[I am invisible]

When you see things like that you can almost understand why Wenger doesn't want to participate in the transfer market

The crazy thing is the money is almost no object now with this new Sky TV deal - if we're finishing anywhere in the top 4 then we're getting close to £100m a year just for taking part!

The problem now is actually making sure you're getting a £30-50m player for your £30-50m - that's where I think Wenger's opinion probably differs quite wildly from a lot of other people's, and where his reluctance to spend starts to creep in. Say what you want about the players he's taken a punt on or signed for lesser fees, when he get's his cheque book out for someone over £30m, I think he expects someone on Sanchez or Ozil's level for his money...

[Power n Glory]

In your examples you're only considering players bought, not those sold. The net situation is the more significant one.
It's only in the last few years we've had a big net spend, when the new financial deals were in place.

What we sold is irrelevant. If you decide to sell your house do you decide to then buy a caravan and tents as an equivalent? We were still able to raise the funds and spend it.

[I am invisible]

In your examples you're only considering players bought, not those sold. The net situation is the more significant one.
It's only in the last few years we've had a big net spend, when the new financial deals were in place.

Also, whilst I'd also prefer quality over quantity in an ideal world, I think that only really works if you're talking about the difference between 1 vs 2 or more players in the same area - if your squad is thin, and you desperately need to buy players across multiple areas, then quantity is pretty much your only choice (unless your scouts (and luck) are unbelievably good)...

[Letters]

What we sold is irrelevant.
:blink:

The net spend is irrelevant to the issue of how much money we had before the new financial deals were in place?

[Power n Glory]

:blink:

The net spend is irrelevant to the issue of how much money we had before the new financial deals were in place?

This is basic stuff, Letters. If you sold your car, house or whatever asset, how much money will you be left with to spend?

You can't say we had no money to spend.

[Dein-machine]

The crazy thing is the money is almost no object now with this new Sky TV deal - if we're finishing anywhere in the top 4 then we're getting close to £100m a year just for taking part!

The problem now is actually making sure you're getting a £30-50m player for your £30-50m - that's where I think Wenger's opinion probably differs quite wildly from a lot of other people's, and where his reluctance to spend starts to creep in. Say what you want about the players he's taken a punt on or signed for lesser fees, when he get's his cheque book out for someone over £30m, I think he expects someone on Sanchez or Ozil's level for his money...

Agreed - thats why we should be all over Vidal for £28 mill, especially using Sanchez as a contact.

[Power n Glory]

Also, whilst I'd also prefer quality over quantity in an ideal world, I think that only really works if you're talking about the difference between 1 vs 2 or more players in the same area - if your squad is thin, and you desperately need to buy players across multiple areas, then quantity is pretty much your only choice (unless your scouts (and luck) are unbelievably good)...

That's true. But in 2011/12, Ox wasn't ready for the first team and hardly played. We shouldn't even mention Park Chu Young and Campbell was loaned out straight away because he didn't have a passport. That's almost £16m blown in the summer on players that had little to no impact on our season.

[Marc Overmars]

£32.5 MILLION POUNDS for Benteke!

:cry: :faint:

Brendan is collecting strikers.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The crazy thing is the money is almost no object now with this new Sky TV deal - if we're finishing anywhere in the top 4 then we're getting close to £100m a year just for taking part!

The problem now is actually making sure you're getting a £30-50m player for your £30-50m - that's where I think Wenger's opinion probably differs quite wildly from a lot of other people's, and where his reluctance to spend starts to creep in. Say what you want about the players he's taken a punt on or signed for lesser fees, when he get's his cheque book out for someone over £30m, I think he expects someone on Sanchez or Ozil's level for his money...

Precisely and I cannot fault him for this line of thinking, even though I think he uses it as an excuse for inaction

[I am invisible]

That's true. But in 2011/12, Ox wasn't ready for the first team and hardly played. We shouldn't even mention Park Chu Young and Campbell was loaned out straight away because he didn't have a passport. That's almost £16m blown in the summer on players that had little to no impact on our season.

The ones I think were wasted money were players like Santos - £6-7m may not be a great deal, but we should still have been able to get a decent LB for that money, without having to sacrifice other purchases to do it? Didn't we get Sagna for something like £6m?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Agreed - thats why we should be all over Vidal for £28 mill, especially using Sanchez as a contact.

Even though I don't agree with this, this would be Wengers thinking

If I buy Vidal I will have to play him week in week out, this kills Coquelins development

Therefore what I need is someone who is able to deputise when needed and I have that in Arteta who fills the dual role of the leader off the pitch.

Like I say I don't buy it, but that's how he will have reasoned it

[I am invisible]

Precisely and I cannot fault him for this line of thinking, even though I think he uses it as an excuse for inaction

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it) I think that's where we find ourselves this summer - in terms of forwards and midfielders, which is where everyone seems to be focused, I think we're only really on the look out for one or two exceptional players, who will really take us to another level. Basically, it will either be a piss-you-pants-exciting summer, if someone suddenly comes on the market... or, as is more likely, we won't do a thing...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

More encouraging....Arteta (presumably our cover for Coquelin) is still injured as is Welbeck (our cover for Giroud)

Sigh.....

[fakeyank]

This is basic stuff, Letters. If you sold your car, house or whatever asset, how much money will you be left with to spend?

You can't say we had no money to spend.

:gp:

[I am invisible]

Even though I don't agree with this, this would be Wengers thinking

If I buy Vidal I will have to play him week in week out, this kills Coquelins development

Therefore what I need is someone who is able to deputise when needed and I have that in Arteta who fills the dual role of the leader off the pitch.

Like I say I don't buy it, but that's how he will have reasoned it

I'm not convinced Vidal was ever the right choice for us - good player, but for me he's more of a Ramsey or a Wilshere than a Coquelin. Do we need to spend close to £30m on another player like that (especially when Ramsey's stats are arguably already better)?

What I think we might see happen is that we'll try to push for one of these young CBs that we keep getting linked with (Rugani, Romagnoli, Manalos, etc), and then use Chambers in more of a utility role, covering CB, RB and DM (with Coquelin remaining first choice DM)?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not sure he is, Ramsey especially is not good at winning the ball back in his own half.

[I am invisible]

Not sure he is, Ramsey especially is not good at winning the ball back in his own half.

The point is, Vidal would have be £30m better at winning the ball back than Ramsey to really justify it - as it is, I don't think there's much in it, and I think Ramsey edges it on goals and assists (and is less of a red card waiting to happen).

And it still doesn't mean we should be signing him as a DM.

[Power n Glory]

The ones I think were wasted money were players like Santos - £6-7m may not be a great deal, but we should still have been able to get a decent LB for that money, without having to sacrifice other purchases to do it? Didn't we get Sagna for something like £6m?

Yep, Sagna was £6m. I think we had a left back injury problem at the time and needed a player but didn’t do our research. You can add that £6m on to the £16m for the rest of the players. You can’t blow £22m like that on players who made no difference to our season.

[Özim]

32 million for Benteke is a lot but he's got 49 goals in 101 games for Villa apparently, that's almost 1 goal every 2 games which is a great record.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Brendan is collecting strikers.

Collects them then gets rid of them.

This will most likely spell doom for Borini, Lambert and in all likelihood Balotelli.

Leaves us with Sturridge (:sarcy:), Benteke, Origi and Ings. All depends on whether Sturridge can get fit again and if Benteke fits into the team. If not then it spells doom for Rodgers as well.

[GP]

Collects them then gets rid of them.

This will most likely spell doom for Borini, Lambert and in all likelihood Balotelli.

Leaves us with Sturridge (:sarcy:), Benteke, Origi and Ings. All depends on whether Sturridge can get fit again and if Benteke fits into the team. If not then it spells doom for Rodgers as well.

What would be acceptable for your lot? Just top 4 enough?

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It's quite a lot of money but then again they've just wrangled 49 million for Sterling so they're in no position to complain about over priced players.

Decent transfer as it's probably the best striker they can attract given their current status (no CL football, perennial 5 - 7th place team) however the constant turnover of players every summer is something that should concern any Liverpool fan. This would be the 7th first team incoming this summer; more than three and there are usually problems gelling it all together. Just gives all the indications of a transfer committee/manager who really has no long term plan or vision to build a squad.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

What would be acceptable for your lot? Just top 4 enough?

Yeah I'd say so. We're probably where we should be right now, so we can't expect anything more. Just got to hope United have another shocker. Though I wouldn't mind a decent cup run.

Frankly, I'd just take us playing some decent footie again after the garbage last season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Good to see Liverpool are learning to be circumspect in spending the big wad of money they receive.

[Letters]

This is basic stuff, Letters. If you sold your car, house or whatever asset, how much money will you be left with to spend?

You can't say we had no money to spend.
Ok, fine. By selling assets we had money to spend. But we had to sell to buy. We weren't in a position to go out and buy an Ozil or a Sanchez. Now we are, and we have. There is no doubt that since the new financial deals came in it has changed our ability to buy big and our transfer policy has changed accordingly.

[Maestro]

Let's just chuck £50 million on Gabriel Barbosa and Erik Lima and let's call it a day. Slap £100 million release clause on each, and let the fun times begin.

Go direct to the source and get the next best things. We've wasted a lot of time and money on much much less talented players for zero to little return.

JUST DO IT WENGET.

.....I'll just dream on in this corner :getcoat:

[fakeyank]

Ok, fine. By selling assets we had money to spend. But we had to sell to buy. We weren't in a position to go out and buy an Ozil or a Sanchez. Now we are, and we have. There is no doubt that since the new financial deals came in it has changed our ability to buy big and our transfer policy has changed accordingly.

But we didnt even spend what we made from selling. I remember a season where we made 40 odd million in transfers i.e. Kolo, Ade and someone else.. Most fans didnt want us to break the bank but we didnt even spend what we made from transfers!! We surely couldve forked the extra 2 million quid for Alonso or 1 million for Schwarzer, but AW didnt. That extra 3 million is a days income from tickets at emirates!!

Anyway thats the past and we do seem to have got the makings of a very very good side. We just need to add a good back up for our DM, cut out our injuries and MOST IMPORTANTLY, we need to have a freaking plan for the big games.. we need to watch the Man City away game over and over again to drill how effective football is better than tippy tappy BS.

[Power n Glory]

Ok, fine. By selling assets we had money to spend. But we had to sell to buy. We weren't in a position to go out and buy an Ozil or a Sanchez. Now we are, and we have. There is no doubt that since the new financial deals came in it has changed our ability to buy big and our transfer policy has changed accordingly.


Ozil went to Real Madrid for £16.5m in 2010.

We sold grade A players like Henry, Fabregas and RVP and downgraded to B class players and unpolished unproven young players.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's not the most pressing need, but for the price, I'd be tempted to be in for Vidal. If I had to blow money on a player I'd go for Hummels as I'm pretty sure he could play CB AND CM at a high level to my mind.

Not sure I quite like the little guy Alexis/Theo at CF but at this point with the paucity of options I'd be open to seeing it tried.....though I do prefer these things to be tested in pre season first.

[Letters]

Ozil went to Real Madrid for £16.5m in 2010.

We sold grade A players like Henry, Fabregas and RVP and downgraded to B class players and unpolished unproven young players.

None of those players were Grade A when we bought them. Cesc was a kid, the other two were more established but both were young when we bought them and up and coming. Wenger probably does prefer to develop players than buy them off the shelf. I would have thought any manager would. Surely it's more satisfying to develop a Fabregas rather than buy one off the shelf. I never understand why spending £100m of a multi-billionaire's spare change is regarded as 'ambitious'. It's pretty much the exact opposite of ambitious, it's taking the short-cut and the easy option. That said, in today's game if you're a City, in the pre money-cheat days, then there isn't much other option to better yourself if you want to mix with the elite.
Players like Sanchez and Ozil are a statement of intent though, I'm hoping (although am not confident) we will do something similar this summer. But the level of striker that would significantly improve us don't grow on trees.

[Dein-machine]

Even though I don't agree with this, this would be Wengers thinking

If I buy Vidal I will have to play him week in week out, this kills Coquelins development

Therefore what I need is someone who is able to deputise when needed and I have that in Arteta who fills the dual role of the leader off the pitch.

Like I say I don't buy it, but that's how he will have reasoned it

This thinking is why we've not been able to compete with a squad with strength in depth. Vidal doesn't have to replace Coq, there are times when tactically we should be adopting a 4-2-3-1 system & they can both play. Vidal can also play further up the field whilst giving Coq competiton for the DM role. I find it amazing you would think like this when you consider our injury record. Having 2 quality players for key positions is an absolute necessity if we are to compete.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger probably does prefer to develop players than buy them off the shelf. I would have thought any manager would. Surely it's more satisfying to develop a Fabregas rather than buy one off the shelf.

:doh: As usual, so quick to defend Wenger you talk yourself into a circle. Your above point follows along the same lines of what Herb said.


I think it's still hubris rather than lack of ambition, Wenger wants to be lauded as a genius who can win things by unearthing gems rather than purchasing established stars. The problem is for him, is that the youngsters he used to be able to sign for 500k are now going to clubs for about thirty times that amount, and those he is plucking from obscurity like Bielik are either far too young or not at the level to put them into the first team.

When your argument about us not having money to buy established players gets shot down, you resort back to what we’ve all been saying in the first place. :lol: But you’re trying to defend Wenger’s decision not to spend when your original argument was that there was no money at all.

I imagine developing your own player is more satisfying for a manger but should a manager be putting his own satisfaction and ideals above the needs of his own players, the fans and club? Does it outweigh the satisfaction of winning silverware? Those are the questions that’s been eating away at most fans for years now.

[Letters]

You’re above point.
:pal:

[Power n Glory]

:pal:

Edit. :pal:

Enough of the wumming. Can you answer the last point if at all possible.


I imagine developing your own player is more satisfying for a manger but should a manager be putting his own satisfaction and ideals above the needs of his own players, the fans and club? Does it outweigh the satisfaction of winning silverware?

[Injury Time]

No bid for for Benzema >>insert WUMger wum face pic<<<

[I am invisible]

No bid for for Benzema >>insert WUMger wum face pic<<<

If that one does end up happening, it will be veeeeeeeery, very late in the window. Possibly the last few days, and almost certainly after the Spanish league is a few games in, and the player knows whether he's been relegated to the bench, behind the Portuguese show-pony.

As it is, I think we've got to take Wenger's comments as true - at the moment, there's nothing happening with Benzema, and talks of official bids going in on Monday are nonsense...

[Niall_Quinn]

Players like Sanchez and Ozil are a statement of intent though, I'm hoping (although am not confident) we will do something similar this summer.

For Ozil and Alexis to be a genuine statement of intent, we HAVE TO do something this summer. Otherwise they aren't a statement of intent, they are something else. It would also be interesting to know Wenger's definition of intent. Is his goal to win the title? Yes of course he'll set out to do that, but to have real intent he'll need to have prepared the ground and made the plan that will make a title realistically achievable. I would like to win the title too, but I'm not a footballer and I don't have a team so my intent rings kind of shallow. If we see a top striker arrive and we make a late bid to hijack Vidal then the intent is unquestionable. Anything less and Wenger might as well come and sit with me to discuss pixies and unicorns and other fantasy stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

This thinking is why we've not been able to compete with a squad with strength in depth. Vidal doesn't have to replace Coq, there are times when tactically we should be adopting a 4-2-3-1 system & they can both play. Vidal can also play further up the field whilst giving Coq competiton for the DM role. I find it amazing you would think like this when you consider our injury record. Having 2 quality players for key positions is an absolute necessity if we are to compete.

Absolutely correct. Vidal would not be our DM. He'd be the midfield general who grabs the game and dictates it like Paddy used to do. We've missed that. But the huge advantage of Vidal is he could play DM if we needed him to, so he'd be a two for one deal. A great midfielder, and I watched him carefully throughout Copa and he is indeed a great midfielder, plus excellent cover for the so far excellent Coquelin who will not be threatened in any way by his arrival. £28mill? Why isn't he here yet? It's a scandal. And if not Vidal then who? If the answer is nobody then there's a bridge our tardy manager can jump from. A proper challenge is what we need this season. The stadium, the years hanging on to the top 4 slot, surely that was for a reason - it wasn't in itself the goal. The goal is to compete at the top of the game, as the board and manager have been claiming for a decade. Well here we are, the plan has unfolded so what's next? Better not be more of the same.

[Marc Overmars]

If that one does end up happening, it will be veeeeeeeery, very late in the window. Possibly the last few days, and almost certainly after the Spanish league is a few games in, and the player knows whether he's been relegated to the bench, behind the Portuguese show-pony.


Every year when the season begins players always become available when they realise where they stand at their current clubs, the issue is forced with the approaching deadline. Obviously you'd rather get your business done early but if there's a possibility of genuine quality coming in, then I'm happy to wait and see. Of course if nothing happens then it goes without saying it would be disappointing, I just don't think this transfer window is over for us yet.

[Özim]

There's a good chance we'll be back in for Suarez, £40,000,002 should do it this time round

[Niall_Quinn]

Every year when the season begins players always become available when they realise where they stand at their current clubs, the issue is forced with the approaching deadline. Obviously you'd rather get your business done early but if there's a possibility of genuine quality coming in, then I'm happy to wait and see. Of course if nothing happens then it goes without saying it would be disappointing, I just don't think this transfer window is over for us yet.

Neither do I. It would make no sense to come this far and then stop. Not in terms of football anyway. Nevertheless, watching how fast Utd can get business done under precisely the same conditions as us makes you wonder what our lot are doing during the majority of the window. There are some simple things we can know without "waiting to see". For example, Akpom is a good player but surely everyone can figure out we won't be going into a serious title challenge relying on him. And maybe Theo can play up top. But we surely can't be hoping we can slot him effectively into that role based on a pre-season and a couple of weeks before the kick off at Wembley. Proper planners don't leave things to chance and they don't sit there hoping for the best. The best never happens in competition unless you have a plan worked out and you have executed it to the best of your ability. Listening to Wenger's wait and see musings is a worry. Does he get that this is sport at the top level and not some practical lab experiment based on a loose hypothesis that has so far failed in ten years of trying?

[Power n Glory]

Wenger believes Wilshere and Ramsey are good enough in the middle along with Santi and Rosicky. He buys Vidal, it kills Wilshere and Ramsey's chances in the team. Two players who've already expressed their insecurities about a lack of playing time and being played out of position.

We won't be doing any business until the last day of the window. I think we're gambling on that again and it's something we've always done. If we come out with a great deal, Wenger is satisfied but if not he won't lose any sleep.

[Dein-machine]

Wenger believes Wilshere and Ramsey are good enough in the middle along with Santi and Rosicky. He buys Vidal, it kills Wilshere and Ramsey's chances in the team. Two players who've already expressed their insecurities about a lack of playing time and being played out of position.

We won't be doing any business until the last day of the window. I think we're gambling on that again and it's something we've always done. If we come out with a great deal, Wenger is satisfied but if not he won't lose any sleep.

You are probably right but Jack is still to prove he can deliver consistently, Ramsey had a poor season last year, Santi was awesome but isn't getting any younger & Rosicky is really a squad player. Vidal is world class.
So, we continue with the "good enoughs" & win fuck all or we do what the Chavs & City do ( if we really want to compete ) & we buy better than what we have. If Vidal is a far better allround midfielder than Jack or Rambo but we can't buy him incase it makes those 2 feel insecure then I'm afraid we may as well get ready for another few years of disappointment.

[Özim]

I'm sorry but I don't think Wilshere will amount to anything, he's been hyped as England's saviour for years but from what we've seen so far he totally lacks the dedication and focus to be a top top footballer and has produced very little on the pitch to show he will ever be.

This constant waiting around for players to come good does the club no favours, in the end it leads us to fail, Wenger might believe he's the future but the future has been coming for far too long now, it's time to look at the present and if that mean sacrificing a player who so far has proved nothing more than a wannabe for the finished article than so be it.

[Marc Overmars]

Delph is having a medical at City, a week after categorically stating he's not going anywhere. :doh:

Footballers are cunts.

[Static]

I'm sorry but I don't think Wilshere will amount to anything, he's been hyped as England's saviour for years but from what we've seen so far he totally lacks the dedication and focus to be a top top footballer and has produced very little on the pitch to show he will ever be.

This constant waiting around for players to come good does the club no favours, in the end it leads us to fail, Wenger might believe he's the future but the future has been coming for far too long now, it's time to look at the present and if that mean sacrificing a player who so far has proved nothing more than a wannabe for the finished article than so be it.

He'll come good.

[Power n Glory]

Delph is having a medical at City, a week after categorically stating he's not going anywhere. :doh:

Footballers are cunts.

That's just low. :haha: Sonofabitch!

[Power n Glory]

I'm sorry but I don't think Wilshere will amount to anything, he's been hyped as England's saviour for years but from what we've seen so far he totally lacks the dedication and focus to be a top top footballer and has produced very little on the pitch to show he will ever be.

This constant waiting around for players to come good does the club no favours, in the end it leads us to fail, Wenger might believe he's the future but the future has been coming for far too long now, it's time to look at the present and if that mean sacrificing a player who so far has proved nothing more than a wannabe for the finished article than so be it.

We'll wait and see. No objection to him being in the team or your opinion that he won't amount to much. My main problem is when players get the extended grace period where there position is hallmarked and untouchable for x amount of years. Some of these guys need to earn their position in the squad. Last season, Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin were fortunate to play so much because we had injury problems. They took their chance and held their position in the squad through hard work and even criticism.

Many thought Monreal and Coquelin were nothing players. Now look. I don't think Wilshere and Ramsey have had to fight for their place and they need to be put through the fire this season if we're not moving for a player as good as Vidal. If they can't win their spots back or fail to answer the call when we have injury problems, it should be a wrap for both of them and they seal their fates as squad players whilst we look to the market for first team world class talent. Forget holding talks with them to reassure them. They need to show up this season without fail.

[topgun]

Every year when the season begins players always become available when they realise where they stand at their current clubs, the issue is forced with the approaching deadline. Obviously you'd rather get your business done early but if there's a possibility of genuine quality coming in, then I'm happy to wait and see. Of course if nothing happens then it goes without saying it would be disappointing, I just don't think this transfer window is over for us yet.


I really hope your right,because at the moment it looks like the clubs progression is being hampered by one mans stubbornness.:oldboy:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Vidal off to Bayern for 28 million.


Well that's that one done.

[Maestro]

Vidal off to Bayern for 28 million.


Well that's that one done.

the big clubs are getting their big gunz ready

[Maestro]

Gabriel Barbosa

[GP]

Sanogo has gone to Ajax on loan.

Dennis will sort him out.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Delph :doh:

What a moron.

Last week it was stupid, this week it's just twattish.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Man City's star signings still remain David Silva, Aguero and Old Man Yaya, it's really odd to be honest that they keep going for England players that more than often are not turn out to be a bit shit.

[Injury Time]

Delph is having a medical at City, a week after categorically stating he's not going anywhere. :doh:

Footballers are cunts.

💢Villa taking the money and running as surely he has the moral fibre to stick to his principles...

[Niall_Quinn]

Vidal off to Bayern for 28 million.


Well that's that one done.

That's theft given today's market. Wenger must have his eye on a really big target to pass that price up. Or else he has his eye on no targets whatsoever.

I wonder which it is?

[Niall_Quinn]

Bellerin signs a new long term contract. Good news.

[Niall_Quinn]

Louis van Gaal has admitted he still has unfinished business in this summer's transfer window - with the Manchester United manager wanting 'to improve at least two positions' to his squad.

Obviously he's not sticking to the wait and see rules :doh:

[Özim]

Obviously he's not sticking to the wait and see rules :doh:

Not all managers abide by the "waiting period" strategy, it's a risky strategy though as it means they actually try to sign players and don't just wait for a fan backlash to force their hand.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Maybe LVG read this forum and became down on Man U's abilities. Especially when you were saying you weren't bothered about Schweinsteigger and would be really concerned in he signed Morgan Schneiderlain, and then he went about the latter too. :doh:

Anyway....

Vidal is a disappointment though as he went for a fair price (not sure if it has been confirmed yet). Ramsey and Wilshere ultimately know that, if you're going to cut it at a top club, this is the kind of competition you face. If you don't like it you'll play for Everton or Newcastle.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'd like to add I thought Wilshere was doing pretty well petulance aside before he got injured and since he came back he's been brilliant. The blinkers will come off a few eventually....

[GP]

Wilshere is a special player. It isn't even up for debate.

[Munchies]

Liverpool agree £32.5m deal for Benteke

[Niall_Quinn]

Liverpool agree £32.5m deal for Benteke

Crazy price for a moderately decent but inconsistent striker. That would make Aguero worth £2.5trillion quid and Sanogo worth well over £70K.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Liverpool agree £32.5m deal for Benteke

http://i.imgur.com/5UlcK.gif

[AFC Leveller]

Rodgers waste money like its nothing, surely he will get the sack if it doesnt work out..again.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

They've overpaid but it's a very good acquisition imo and his goal record is very good.....and that very good is in THIS league. It's difficult to get genuine quality with the paucity of options around right now so I think from there point of view it is positive.

What you don't want to be doing is overpaying on bang average players in most of your deals......that is when you have a problem....not when you slightly over pay for genuine quality.

Realistically they aren't going to get into the top 4 almost regardless of what they do so they have to take a slightly longer term view.

[Static]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/9917996/borussia-dortmund-warn-arsenal-off-pierre-emerick-aubameyang


Borussia Dortmund have warned Arsenal against bidding for Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, insisting the striker is not for sale.

Gabon international Aubameyang has been lauded as one of the Bundesliga's best strikers after netting 26 times last season.

Arsenal reportedly failed with a bid of £28.7million for the former St Etienne player and reports in the German press suggest the Gunners will come back in with a renewed bid of over £30million.

But, having allowed Ciro Immobile to join Sevilla, Dortmund are determined to hold on to Aubameyang and are hopeful of extending his deal at Signal Iduna Park.

Speaking to German magazine Kicker, Dortmund's sporting director Michael Zorc said: "We rely heavily on Aubameyang - that is no secret.

"I've heard a lot about this (a transfer to Arsenal) but I can say very clearly that it is blocked for him. He is simply not for sale."

Aubameyang has three years left on the five-year contract he signed at Dortmund in the summer of 2013.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

lol Aubeyamang. If there's anyone in Dortmund's front line we should be going all in for it's Reus. Really surprised none of the major players have made a move for him yet.

Come on Wenger, pull your finger out here.


Rodgers waste money like its nothing, surely he will get the sack if it doesnt work out..again.

Or he'll bravely shift the blame to his two assistants to save his own skin like he did this summer. :arry:


As for Beteneke, as I've said before he's the best striker they could realistically get so in that regard it's a good transfer for them.

No way in hell would an elite striker of the calibre of Benzema, Cavani etc move to them or even a top talent like Lacazette.

[Globalgunner]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/9917996/borussia-dortmund-warn-arsenal-off-pierre-emerick-aubameyang

Wenger could and should have bought Aubameyang in 2013, but instead put his hope in San-No-goal. His talent seeking radar is still circa 1998. He prefers to buy cheap tat and later when desperate pay over the odds for other teams proven players.. This season City and united are adding layers of talent while we simply consolidate with what we have.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Someone said that by buying Vidal we would have killed Wilshire and Ransey and that they have shown insecurities about playing time.....I say sod that....that's there problem, let them fight it out and see who's left standing.....

I am happy to go along with Coq as the DM and love Wumger's loyalty but Morgan for 25? should have had him IMO

I don't think we go for a direct Giroud replacement but we are obviously looking for interchangables so a Pedro or the guy from BD is what I think we should be looking at......can see a deal for Benzema taking fuc&ing years.....sort the squad out now

heaven equals Vidal and Abemeyang and DM because I don't know who's left

[Letters]

But you’re trying to defend Wenger’s decision not to spend when your original argument was that there was no money at all.
That wasn't my original argument at all :shrug:
My argument is we have new financial deals in place which has changed our ability to compete for the top players and the transfer policy has changed accordingly in the last 2 years.
Hopefully that will continue although it's not looking too promising.


I imagine developing your own player is more satisfying for a manger but should a manager be putting his own satisfaction and ideals above the needs of his own players, the fans and club? Does it outweigh the satisfaction of winning silverware? Those are the questions that’s been eating away at most fans for years now.
The manager should be putting the long term future of the club above the short term, short sighted views of the fans. We all want success and we all want it now, Now, NOW!
But in an era where billionaires are spunking hundreds of millions to buy success and we were paying off a huge stadium loan, a bit of pragmatism was required.
I agree with FY that we could have spent more in that era - it did sometimes seem to come down to a million here and there, but none of us really knows what goes on behind the scenes.
Now we have new financial deals in place we are spending more money and can do so without having to sell to balance the books, in the last 2 years Wenger has done that and it has yielded results.
Not the big prize yet, but we have a squad which is very close to competing now IMO. It's the best squad we've had for a long time. We do need a bit more up front but the level of player who would improve us in that area doesn't grow on trees.

[GP]

I think the biggest improvement we could make is to sign a goalscorer. I have no idea who, though. The players who would obviously improve us wouldn't be available.

[Power n Glory]

That wasn't my original argument at all :shrug:
My argument is we have new financial deals in place which has changed our ability to compete for the top players and the transfer policy has changed accordingly in the last 2 years.
Hopefully that will continue although it's not looking too promising.


The manager should be putting the long term future of the club above the short term, short sighted views of the fans. We all want success and we all want it now, Now, NOW!
But in an era where billionaires are spunking hundreds of millions to buy success and we were paying off a huge stadium loan, a bit of pragmatism was required.
I agree with FY that we could have spent more in that era - it did sometimes seem to come down to a million here and there, but none of us really knows what goes on behind the scenes.
Now we have new financial deals in place we are spending more money and can do so without having to sell to balance the books, in the last 2 years Wenger has done that and it has yielded results.
Not the big prize yet, but we have a squad which is very close to competing now IMO. It's the best squad we've had for a long time. We do need a bit more up front but the level of player who would improve us in that area doesn't grow on trees.

Yes it was. When referring to our activity before the new deals, this was your response.


It was never a 'stage'. We didn't have the money. Now we do, he's spending it.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3227&page=156

It's all there if you want a refresh.

[Letters]

Yes. That was in response to a point about him not signing established players and preferring to sign younger players being 'a stage'.
I never said he didn't have any money at all, but we didn't have the money to go out and by a Sanchez or an Ozil.
Now we do, and we have.

You always do this. Wilfully misrepresent my actual views, attack things I've not said and then basically call me a liar when I correct your misunderstanding.
Pretty lazy straw-man stuff.

[Power n Glory]

Yes. That was in response to a point about him not signing established players and preferring to sign younger players being 'a stage'.
I never said he didn't have any money at all, but we didn't have the money to go out and by a Sanchez or an Ozil.
Now we do, and we have.

You always do this. Wilfully misrepresent my actual views, attack things I've not said and then basically call me a liar when I correct your misunderstanding.
Pretty lazy straw-man stuff.

Yes you did. Are you crazy! :lol:


It was never a 'stage'. We didn't have the money. Now we do, he's spending it.

What the heck does that say?

If anyone is lazy, it's you take quotes out of context and I often wonder if you read the whole post. We hit the point about established players as well and I clearly said we had that the money to spend on established players with my examples and then you conceded that point and said the following.


Wenger probably does prefer to develop players than buy them off the shelf. I would have thought any manager would. Surely it's more satisfying to develop a Fabregas rather than buy one off the shelf. I never understand why spending £100m of a multi-billionaire's spare change is regarded as 'ambitious'.

And you still haven't answered my question. You wummed your way out with that silly smiley.


I imagine developing your own player is more satisfying for a manger but should a manager be putting his own satisfaction and ideals above the needs of his own players, the fans and club? Does it outweigh the satisfaction of winning silverware?

I haven't misrepresented any of what you've said Letters. You made a short blunt statement about our financial position. I corrected you on that. You elaborated your point. I corrected you again. You then concede that Wenger does properly prefer to develop young players which is the point Herbert was originally eluding to and what I was commenting on. There was in fact a stage where he'd prefer to take £30m and spread spending on young and undiscovered talent that he could develop.

[Letters]

it's you take quotes out of context.
Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

[Özim]

Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

It's ironic, this seems to be your answer to everything, the minute you get yourself into a hole you can't get out of you post stuff like this.

He was clearly not wumming.

[Power n Glory]

Which is exactly what you've just done to me. I've explained what that was a reply to and the context.
Can't be arsed reading the rest of your post, you're a WUM :good:

:pal: It's funny how your memory has all of a sudden gone hazy. You ducked out of the argument last week because you admitted we had money to spend on established players during our barren run because Wenger prefers developing players.

Yes, we have money to spend now I can understand that point and not up for debate.

I've used quotes from your argument just to keep the page count low but also posted a link to where the debate started so you can re read what was said....but since your so lazy.....

[Power n Glory]

It's ironic, this seems to be your answer to everything, the minute you get yourself into a hole you can't get out of you post stuff like this.

He was clearly not wumming.

He knows I wasn't wumming but he's wound himself up and is frustrated because he doesn't have an answer. He stops reading posts and won't answer anything when he gets stuck. It's petulant.

Of course we didn't have an unlimited amount of money to play with during our barren run and we'd often sell to raise funds. But with the funds raised we could have bought maybe one or two established players a season instead of placing all bets on young unknowns developing into superstars. I understand the strategy and the conditions we were under but it was the wrong way to go. It costs us players and silverware because players like RVP and Fabregas could never understand why after losing a big name we wouldn't reinvest in someone that's more established. We can't repeat the same mistakes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Children, Children....play nicely.
My own contention is that yes he does (by his own admission) prefer developing young players rather than buying established stars. But I think the financial constraints also meant that rightly or wrongly he felt the established stars he could afford were no better than what he already had.

[Power n Glory]

Children, Children....play nicely.
My own contention is that yes he does (by his own admission) prefer developing young players rather than buying established stars. But I think the financial constraints also meant that rightly or wrongly he felt the established stars he could afford were no better than what he already had.

We needed a mix and to strike a right balance. Developing Theo, RVP, Cesc...they were good investments. But leaning so heavy on youth development meant we lost out on silverware and players like RVP and Cesc lost faith in the manager’s strategy. Denilson shouldn’t have been anywhere near the first team and he persisted with Eboue at right wing for a long time as well. Costly decisions and there were plenty more. What made things more frustrating for me was hearing Wenger say year after year that we had ‘plenty of attacker/midfielders etc’ and name players like Denilson, Eboue or even Bendy as viable options only to realise that they weren’t good enough too late in the day. We passed up on signing good players for this lot and I worry we might be seeing the same with this Vidal situation. Ramsey and Wilshere need to develop into seriously good players if we’re passing on such a player. Same applies to Giroud/Walcott/Welbeck if we don’t sign a forward. At least this time around the players he’s reserving a spot for have some actual talent.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

[Power n Glory]

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

No, I know you don't endorse it. I'm just elaborating on your point (ranting) on what I think we needed at the time and bringing it back to where we were with the original conversation. I can understand Wenger's rationale sometimes but he just goes a step too far sometimes.

[milla]

There seems to be some confusion here; by explaining what I believe is Wengers rationale there is the perception that I'm endorsing it....I don't....either in the past or now.
Despite his Lazarus like resurrection into a decent player im still not a massive fan of Ramsey....nor do I really care for Wilshere that much, they can never both a) be fit and b) in form at the same time so I've been massively in favour of selling one of them for years.

It would never work with both of them in the same team, one of them has to be content sitting on the bench or find another team to get more playing time. :coffee:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

On one hand it worked ok on Saturday, out of the two Wilshere had the better game but Ramsey was quite tidy and didn't ignore his defensive responsibilities.
But in the main I agree I think we'd leave ourselves too susceptible to counter attack playing both of them.

[Globalgunner]

To my mind Wenger doesnt even want to compete, he purposely handicaps himself with cheap inferior players, simply because he thinks he can and always does get away with it. Coming 4th means you just need to be better than 15 teams that we are intrinsically better than. When he comes 4th he takes the moral league title given that every one above him spent massively more. Talk of us having no money is a smokescreen because we have a bank cash surplus of more than 200m. That simply didnt materialise in 1 or 2 years but was amassed over 8 years of underfunding the team and ironically overpaying on salaries for the same.

He wont compete because at the top end the battle is fierce and requires a level of aptitude and rutlessness, Wenger simply doesnt have. We are in the twilight zone with this manager, purgatory with seemingly no end. Probably another 5 years more now, given the latest vote of endorsement by Gazidis.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To my mind Wenger doesnt even want to compete, he purposely handicaps himself with cheap inferior players, simply because he thinks he can and always does get away with it. Coming 4th means you just need to be better than 15 teams that we are intrinsically better than. When he comes 4th he takes the moral league title given that every one above him spent massively more. Talk of us having no money is a smokescreen because we have a bank cash surplus of more than 200m. That simply didnt materialise in 1 or 2 years but was amassed over 8 years of underfunding the team and ironically overpaying on salaries for the same.

He wont compete because at the top end the battle is fierce and requires a level of aptitude and rutlessness, Wenger simply doesnt have. We are in the twilight zone with this manager, purgatory with seemingly no end. Probably another 5 years more now, given the latest vote of endorsement by Gazidis.

Yes I might buy your argument if he hadn't won the title with us three times, questioning his ability to take us further is one thing and I think even the most ardent card carrying Wenger knows best has doubts about that.
His desire to win? No I don't think that's fair, whilst the 4th place trophy remark wasn't exactly anything Arsenal fans wanted to hear the no1 priority was to keep the revenues of champions league qualification coming in. This is not a man with a taste for decadent living, he doesn't need the money he gets so the only reason he's still in football is because he believes he can win big.

[Globalgunner]

Yes I might buy your argument if he hadn't won the title with us three times, questioning his ability to take us further is one thing and I think even the most ardent card carrying Wenger knows best has doubts about that.
His desire to win? No I don't think that's fair, whilst the 4th place trophy remark wasn't exactly anything Arsenal fans wanted to hear the no1 priority was to keep the revenues of champions league qualification coming in. This is not a man with a taste for decadent living, he doesn't need the money he gets so the only reason he's still in football is because he believes he can win big.

He lost his will to win after it became too hard, post Chelsea/Abramovic and moreso when Mourinho arrived, add Abu dhabi City into the equation plus Fergies relentless will to win. its easy to see why he receded into the safety of 4th place. Who else is competing there? Spurs, Pool. only fleetingly. The thing that motivates Wenger to keep on managing is what he himself has confessed. There is simply nothing else in his life. Getting paid like a CL winner is only an affirmation of his self worth. If he didnt care about the money he could have taken lower wages during our so called broke period. Every manager he likes to compare himself to has won the CL, most 2 times each, Wenger gets schooled every time in the last 16. It can only get worse im afraid. If you cant crack the CL with the squad of 2000_2004. You wont with a bunch of Wilsheres and Ramseys plus Giroud as your goal getter.

[GP]

Nah

[Dein-machine]

Yeh - a man with a will to win doesn't buy Sonogo when we were screaming out for a proper strike & still are

[Niall_Quinn]

General mutterings around the media suggest we are after Benzema but we won't get him this season and will have to wait until next. Hopefully that's speculation rather than truth. But if true it would confirm Wenger as a dinosaur who has completely lost touch with modern football. You don't have to like the modern game but if you want to compete in it then you have to accept certain realities.

A gap year when we are supposed to be driving on to a genuine title challenge would be destructive. So great, you get your man next season. But what if Alexis or Ozil has had to carry the team in the meantime, played blinders but still end up with fuck all to show for it - what do they say when clubs who inhabit the modern game come knocking? And what if Benzema isn't available next year, after all? Wait for his kid to grow up? sort of like a gap era?

No time to waste, there's a title and CL to win and if we're genuinely in it to win it then get the chequebook out and improve the squad so we stand a chance of achieving it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arturo Vidal is joining Bayern Munich after his club, Juventus, agreed a €37m (£25.9m) fee for the midfielder with a further £2.1m in add-ons. The Chilean midfielder has agreed a four-year deal worth £90,000 a week and will leave Turin after four years and four Serie A titles.

£90K? Less than a third of what fat boy shrek steals? Everything was right about this deal, I can't see a single reason as to why he's not having a medical at the Emirates right now. Other than Wenger being fast asleep at the wheel.

Guess who Juve are after? Draxler.

Wenger zzzzzzzzzz (mutter mutter) zzzzzzzzzzzz (we will do it if Jesus Christ becomes available) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, yawn, stretch, "Sacré bleu, I had zis little bit terrifying dream where I was spending money!"

[Niall_Quinn]

Meanwhile.


In other news pertaining to towering strikers, Arsène Wenger is believed to have borrowed the kitchen scales from the training ground canteen, all the better to “weigh up” a bid for Manchester City’s Bosnian goal-getter Edin Dzeko. Wenger is also understood to be interested in signing Borussia Dortmund’s 26-year-old forward Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, but the Bundesliga outfit say their £30m-rated Gabon international is not for sale.

"How much for Aubameyang?" - "He's not for sale!" - "How much?" - "He's not for sale!" - "OK then, but one more question... How much for Aubameyang?" - "He's still not for sale!" - "Fuck it, let's just scrape Dzeko up and smear him on the Emirates, cheap and nasty."

[Niall_Quinn]

And:

Theo wants £100K per week (which in modern terms is not excessive) and he's prepared to let his negotiations drag on if need be. If we aren't signing a new striker and we are also prepared to let Theo's negotiations drag on then somebody needs shooting.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And:

Theo wants £100K per week (which in modern terms is not excessive) and he's prepared to let his negotiations drag on if need be. If we aren't signing a new striker and we are also prepared to let Theo's negotiations drag on then somebody needs shooting.

I thought he was already on 100k a week?

[Dein-machine]

It's a lot of money to pay someone who can run fast. Wonder if Hector can ask for £110,000 a week coz he's quicker & a better finisher.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's a lot of money to pay someone who can run fast. Wonder if Hector can ask for £110,000 a week coz he's quicker & a better finisher.

Everything is relative, Diaby was on 60k a week to keep people company in the treatment room

[Niall_Quinn]

Everything is relative, Diaby was on 60k a week to keep people company in the treatment room

Stop exaggerating FFS!

It was 70K

[Dein-machine]

£90K? Less than a third of what fat boy shrek steals? Everything was right about this deal, I can't see a single reason as to why he's not having a medical at the Emirates right now. Other than Wenger being fast asleep at the wheel.

Guess who Juve are after? Draxler.

Wenger zzzzzzzzzz (mutter mutter) zzzzzzzzzzzz (we will do it if Jesus Christ becomes available) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, yawn, stretch, "Sacré bleu, I had zis little bit terrifying dream where I was spending money!"

Totally agree NQ but it ain't happening under Le Prof. Vidal, Lacazzete & Cech isn't asking a lot & all affordable. Those 3 would have shaken up the starting 11, competition for places & given us the chance to play 4-2-3-1 in the tougher games away. I am resigned to the fact that we will only buy players that obviously strengthen us when Wenger is gone. Even if he did buy the quality we need I'm not sure he'd know what to do with them.

[Dein-machine]

Everything is relative, Diaby was on 60k a week to keep people company in the treatment room

Yep - your right, Wengers on £150,000 a week to finish ahead of Spurs.

[Power n Glory]

He lost his will to win after it became too hard, post Chelsea/Abramovic and moreso when Mourinho arrived, add Abu dhabi City into the equation plus Fergies relentless will to win. its easy to see why he receded into the safety of 4th place. Who else is competing there? Spurs, Pool. only fleetingly. The thing that motivates Wenger to keep on managing is what he himself has confessed. There is simply nothing else in his life. Getting paid like a CL winner is only an affirmation of his self worth. If he didnt care about the money he could have taken lower wages during our so called broke period. Every manager he likes to compare himself to has won the CL, most 2 times each, Wenger gets schooled every time in the last 16. It can only get worse im afraid. If you cant crack the CL with the squad of 2000_2004. You wont with a bunch of Wilsheres and Ramseys plus Giroud as your goal getter.

I think he's been complacent. He had the Invincible season and after that season frustrated the hell out of Fergie with that FA Cup victory. On the one hand I think maybe he's relaxing a little and finds comfort in knowing he's done something no one else has managed with our last league win and maybe feeling he's gotten the better of Fergie. He's got job security because the board reassure him every year that he has a job for life and with this stadium project, he's cemented his spot as an Arsenal legend and model to all managers that want to move to a bigger stadium.

But on the other hand, I don't know why he'd grow so easily complacent without the Champs League title. His record is a wounder and he wants that trophy badly.

It's a real mystery. I don't know why he hasn't tried to put his foot on the throat of his competitors. I really don't. He'll have to explain things when he retires.

[Power n Glory]

£90K? Less than a third of what fat boy shrek steals? Everything was right about this deal, I can't see a single reason as to why he's not having a medical at the Emirates right now. Other than Wenger being fast asleep at the wheel.

Guess who Juve are after? Draxler.

Wenger zzzzzzzzzz (mutter mutter) zzzzzzzzzzzz (we will do it if Jesus Christ becomes available) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, yawn, stretch, "Sacré bleu, I had zis little bit terrifying dream where I was spending money!"

That's a head scratchier. 90k a week. £25m! :sick:

It's because of Jack and Rambo. That's why he didn't make a move for Vidal. He played Santi as a DM on Saturday so that's another way to get either player in the starting line up.

It's this sort of thing that's held us back for so long. This guy would be a serious addition to our squad and we've passed up on him. I hope we don't let another season pass us by. Season before last when Fergie retired was a huge opportunity to win the league and the first time we've led and been genuine contenders. If we'd have moved quicker in the window and been more ambitious we'd have won it. I hope we don't repeat the same mistake.

[Gooner23]

When I've seen Vidal he looks more of a box to box midfielder than a holding one so I'm not sure he was what we're after. But as soon as Arteta signed a new deal I think getting a new player in that area went out the window anyway. Huge gamble that Coq will replicate last season's form.

[Power n Glory]

When I've seen Vidal he looks more of a box to box midfielder than a holding one so I'm not sure he was what we're after. But as soon as Arteta signed a new deal I think getting a new player in that area went out the window anyway. Huge gamble that Coq will replicate last season's form.

I know he's more box to box and I don't think we're in the market for a DM either way. But he's a superior box to box player than what we currently have and would have been good to see Wenger make a move on him like he did with Cech this season or Ozil a couple back.

I'm not worried about Coquelin replicating last seasons form. Honestly, before seeing him this season, I thought he had it in him to play at this level. He scraps for the ball and can tackle, he's mobile, good technique and doesn't panic under pressure when it comes to passing the ball out. He'll be fine.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yep - your right, Wengers on £150,000 a week to finish ahead of Spurs.

Were you the same guy who said you'd rather have Pulis as Arsenal manager because he'd at least beaten Mourinho?

Apologies if not

[Gooner23]

Right now I wouldn't swap Santi for anyone in centre mid alongside Coq. With Wilshere and Ramsey as back up we have pretty good depth there. An upgrade on Coq would have been good but I can understand why he's being given the chance. I think we're a top class striker away from challenging. But he may decide to go with Sanchez down the middle.

[Letters]

Make it happen, Wenger

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdY6p2UCMAAVEd5.jpg

[Dein-machine]

Were you the same guy who said you'd rather have Pulis as Arsenal manager because he'd at least beaten Mourinho?

Apologies if not

Afraid not Herbie, although whoever said it isn't far from my views on Wenger. I will say however, I would expect Eddie Howe, who has never managed in the P.L. or C.L., given the players we have & the money we have to spend to do a better job as Arsenal manager than Wenger - simply because the glaring problem areas would have to be addressed by someone needing to make he's own stamp on the team & tactically I think Wenger is hopeless.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair I think a lot of your arguments smack of familiarity breeding contempt

As much as I think Wenger is a relic and a stubborn old goat who arguably needs to be put out to pasture if we are going to make the step up to the next level, I think it's totally supposition and rather disingenuous to suggest that a mid table manager would have done a better job than Wenger. Wenger is currently for me at the level of someone like Van Gaal who is also in many respects a relic and a tactical dinosaur who only now is spending money on players in the required positions.

We have seen at Man United what happens when you let mid table managers take charge of big clubs.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing wrong with a midtable manager. You have to start somewhere. As long as they show promise and push low quality players beyond the usual standard and actually win something. We can't bring in someone that has no credentials at all or a similar playing philosophy to what we have and then expect champagne football.

Wenger's done a good job but he's let himself back and should be known as one of the greats.

[Dein-machine]

To be fair I think a lot of your arguments smack of familiarity breeding contempt

As much as I think Wenger is a relic and a stubborn old goat who arguably needs to be put out to pasture if we are going to make the step up to the next level, I think it's totally supposition and rather disingenuous to suggest that a mid table manager would have done a better job than Wenger. Wenger is currently for me at the level of someone like Van Gaal who is also in many respects a relic and a tactical dinosaur who only now is spending money on players in the required positions.

We have seen at Man United what happens when you let mid table managers take charge of big clubs.

Van Gaal is only starting his 2nd season. In his 1st he has got them back into Champions league with a team that he mostly inherited. Yes, he is spending money but in areas that are necessary to improve the team,, exactly like Mourinho did last year.
Moyes fucked it up - agreed. Rodgers was a Gerrard slip away from winning the league with Liverpool - he was a mid table manager with Swansea. Who's to know what someone like Howe could do at Arsenal. What I do know is that he would know what needs improving & improve it, get rid of the deadwood that is stinking up our squad & be able to adapt tactically to the opposition we are playing - Wenger continues to prove that he is unable to do these things.

Wenger is the only one that can change my opinion of Wenger & this transfer window just emphasizes that he is not changing, doesn't want to change & incapable of learning lessons from previous years. His efforts over the years have left us finacially well set but frustrated on the football front. He is now the main reason this football club fails to progress - a shame for what he has done for us but we really do need a change in order to move on.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nothing wrong with a midtable manager. You have to start somewhere. As long as they show promise and push low quality players beyond the usual standard and actually win something. We can't bring in someone that has no credentials at all or a similar playing philosophy to what we have and then expect champagne football.

Wenger's done a good job but he's let himself back and should be known as one of the greats.

By mid table manager I don't mean someone who is managing a mid table club, I mean one who is of the level of managing a mid table club. Managers like Moyes, Pardew and Pulis are of this level....they are very good managers of mid table clubs but don't have the ability to manage higher than their current level.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Van Gaal is only starting his 2nd season. In his 1st he has got them back into Champions league with a team that he mostly inherited. Yes, he is spending money but in areas that are necessary to improve the team,, exactly like Mourinho did last year.
Moyes fucked it up - agreed. Rodgers was a Gerrard slip away from winning the league with Liverpool - he was a mid table manager with Swansea. Who's to know what someone like Howe could do at Arsenal. What I do know is that he would know what needs improving & improve it, get rid of the deadwood that is stinking up our squad & be able to adapt tactically to the opposition we are playing - Wenger continues to prove that he is unable to do these things.

Wenger is the only one that can change my opinion of Wenger & this transfer window just emphasizes that he is not changing, doesn't want to change & incapable of learning lessons from previous years. His efforts over the years have left us finacially well set but frustrated on the football front. He is now the main reason this football club fails to progress - a shame for what he has done for us but we really do need a change in order to move on.

Van Gaal did exactly the same thing Wenger did last season, they had to play for a good deal of the season with wingers playing full back and defenders from the youth team. To make the claim that because he has signed Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger he automatically is a better manager than Wenger is a joke.
Remind me exactly how many games he won away from home last season?
He finished behind us despite not having to contend with European football or the league cup for that matter after getting absolutely battered by a lower league side.
Van Gaal is better than Moyes no argument there, but better than Wenger? I think he's got a lot to do to convince me.

[Dein-machine]

Van Gaal did exactly the same thing Wenger did last season, they had to play for a good deal of the season with wingers playing full back and defenders from the youth team. To make the claim that because he has signed Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger he automatically is a better manager than Wenger is a joke.
Remind me exactly how many games he won away from home last season?
He finished behind us despite not having to contend with European football or the league cup for that matter after getting absolutely battered by a lower league side.
Van Gaal is better than Moyes no argument there, but better than Wenger? I think he's got a lot to do to convince me.

What planet are you on - How can you compare Wenger & Van Gaal when the Dutchman's only been in the job 2 minutes. Wengers had 2 decades on Van Gaal, so when you say he had to do the same last year with youth defenders & wingers playing full back - its understandable when you inherit a squad, NOT when you've been there for 20 years!.
If you want to be petty a compare silly things like away records with 2 guys who are miles apart in comparison when you look at the time they have had in their jobs, who's been more successful in winning titles & in Europe?
You need to take your rose tinted glasses off when it comes to Wenger & realise that he is a very lucky man to still be in a job after the false promises he served up for a decade.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm basing it on the things people criticise Wenger for, not strengthening the squad when called for (didn't sign a proper centre back last summer and actually still hasn't this summer)....and overusing certain players and shoe horning them into positions they are not suited to.
The length of time both have been in the job is irrelevant, I'm not trying to claim one manager is miles better than the other, I'm saying they are the same level. Van Gaal was a great manager who won big things but arguably even at his best was flawed and now is something of a dinosaur...maybe you disagree that's up to you but I think that's an apt description of Wenger.
Of course there are differences but there are similarities between them, they are both stubborn and can be tactically out maneuvered (Mourinho has had the better of Van Gaal in their recent meetings including the champions league final 2010).

Van Gaal is a good manager still, but arguably if he wins a title it will only because of spending at the same level as their neighbours (Pellegrini also a manager at a similar level to Van Gaal and Wenger)

That's not rose tinted, that's just not seeing things in black and white. Is Wenger good enough to take us to where we need to be? No probably not. But I think if you told most people that someone like Pulis could have consistently got us to finish in the top four....I don't think I'd be the one whose view points look ridiculous.

[Fist of Lehmann]

What planet are you on - How can you compare Wenger & Van Gaal when the Dutchman's only been in the job 2 minutes. Wengers had 2 decades on Van Gaal, so when you say he had to do the same last year with youth defenders & wingers playing full back - its understandable when you inherit a squad, NOT when you've been there for 20 years!.

Indeed. In similar qualitative comparative analyses situations it may be more valid to compare like for like. Wenger's first season vs Van Gaal's, weighted by expenditure for instance.

[Dein-machine]

Indeed. In similar qualitative comparative analyses situations it may be more valid to compare like for like. Wenger's first season vs Van Gaal's, weighted by expenditure for instance.

Then you would also have to consider the squads they inherited.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Utd now apparantly close to signing Pedro for 25-30m euros :coffee:

[Syn]

They can have him. He's worse than Jesus Navas.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's really not....don't know if he's the answer to their striking conundrum but a damn good player

Moutinho?

[Syn]

Walcott's a better player. Playing in successful teams elevates average players like Pedro. When Messi's not around and Pedro has to go alone because Smalling has let in 4 goals, it's a different story. He'll be shit here - guaranteed. He's no Sanchez, forgot the talent, he doesn't even have the mentality.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Respectfully disagree but my understanding is that it's completely irrelevant anyway, surely they are under a transfer embargo and wouldn't be able to join United till january?.

[Power n Glory]

I'm basing it on the things people criticise Wenger for, not strengthening the squad when called for (didn't sign a proper centre back last summer and actually still hasn't this summer)....and overusing certain players and shoe horning them into positions they are not suited to.
The length of time both have been in the job is irrelevant, I'm not trying to claim one manager is miles better than the other, I'm saying they are the same level. Van Gaal was a great manager who won big things but arguably even at his best was flawed and now is something of a dinosaur...maybe you disagree that's up to you but I think that's an apt description of Wenger.
Of course there are differences but there are similarities between them, they are both stubborn and can be tactically out maneuvered (Mourinho has had the better of Van Gaal in their recent meetings including the champions league final 2010).

Van Gaal is a good manager still, but arguably if he wins a title it will only because of spending at the same level as their neighbours (Pellegrini also a manager at a similar level to Van Gaal and Wenger)

That's not rose tinted, that's just not seeing things in black and white. Is Wenger good enough to take us to where we need to be? No probably not. But I think if you told most people that someone like Pulis could have consistently got us to finish in the top four....I don't think I'd be the one whose view points look ridiculous.

If we're going overall....Van Gaal wins and it's not debatable. What he did at Ajax alone all those years ago tops Wenger's career.

Dominated the league with three back to back title wins. An undefeated win league included. And that undefeated league win extended to an undefeated Champions League win. Wenger's never done back to back league wins or won the champs league.

That's all without mentioning his league wins with Barca, Bayern and AZ. It's a glowing CV. I didn't realise this guy was the one that coached legends like Bergkamp, Overmars, Davids, Seedorf the De Board brothers and Van der Sar. Shit. In terms of youth development and total football, he's Wenger's daddy. :lol:

In terms of what Van Gaal is capable of now? I don't know. It's way too early to talk about his Utd career after one season. We'll see what happens but the guy is legend. Wenger would have to really pull some magic out the bag to top Van Gaal's legacy.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm only comparing their respective abilities now, although I would say it's not the worlds biggest feat to win three eredivise titles with Ajax, although yes his Champions League win was impressive. I don't know enough to say whether he individually developed the talents you have mentioned or whether he was fortunate enough to have such talent at his disposal as a result of an excellent Ajax scouting/youth development set up.
Also in mentioning AZ, let's not forget Steve McClaren won the title with Twente a year later and he is generally thought of as a wally (and not totally unfairly)
Would Wenger have achieved what Van Gaal has had he made the move from one club to another as readily? I'm not going to say because it would be supposition. Though would have been interesting to see the trajectory of his career had he been released from his contract at Monaco to manage Bayern Munich in 1993.
I have personally long rated Van Gaal for all the achievements you have listed, but it's quite abundantly clear there are also the massive tactical/managerial foibles that we deride Wenger for, which again I put down as much to them both being managers from a different era.
This may sound ageist but you are less likely to be a cutting edge innovator as you get past sixty, and this is why I perhaps I rather disrespectful use the term relic and dinosaur to describe both.

[Power n Glory]

The Dutch league isn't what it used to be but if we're going to compare league quality, you can say the same about the Premiership when Wenger was in his prime. Man Utd were the only team capable of winning the league and we never won back to back titles. Also, our record in Europe was really poor.

It would be interesting to see what Wenger could a achieve with a bigger club but there is a reason why he's never won back to back league titles on the CL. I think he'd have flown the Arsenal nest a long time ago or not have gone to Japan if thought he was capable of more.

[Power n Glory]

Also, looking at the league history, PSV and Feynoord were bigger clubs and league winners back then as well. I remember those clubs being more than what they are now during the 90s and always in the CL. Ajax didn't have some Utd style dominance over the league from the looks of things.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The Dutch league isn't what it used to be but if we're going to compare league quality, you can say the same about the Premiership when Wenger was in his prime. Man Utd were the only team capable of winning the league and we never won back to back titles. Also, our record in Europe was really poor.

It would be interesting to see what Wenger could a achieve with a bigger club but there is a reason why he's never won back to back league titles on the CL. I think he'd have flown the Arsenal nest a long time ago or not have gone to Japan if thought he was capable of more.

I think it's more because he knows he wouldn't have the same carte Blanche at another club. I don't believe for a second that Wenger believes he is not good enough to achieve the things you mention, regardless of whether his ability matches his self belief.

[Master Splinter]

They can have him. He's worse than Jesus Navas.

Only Andros Townsend is worse than Navas.

They probably spit on Navas in Spain for being a one-noted speed-merchant headless chicken.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's more because he knows he wouldn't have the same carte Blanche at another club. I don't believe for a second that Wenger believes he is not good enough to achieve the things you mention, regardless of whether his ability matches his self belief.

I don't know. It's all speculation and I often wonder why Wenger always goes for the low key. But it's strange he chose to go to Japan after Monaco.

Speaking of Monaco and league quality. Why wasn't Wenger able to win back to back titles there and dominate? He was in France for a while and never won the title again after his debut and that was a nothing league compared to the Dutch.

Wenger is a good manager but he still has more to go. I think Van Gaal has done it all and really has nothing left to prove. Similar flaws to Wenger or not, he's done a lot more. But I'll be happy for him to fall flat on his face at Utd. Very happy!

[fakeyank]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/21/wojciech-szczesny-on-verge-of-roma-transfer-from-arsenal-after-agreeing-terms-5306692/

:wave:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know. It's all speculation and I often wonder why Wenger always goes for the low key. But it's strange he chose to go to Japan after Monaco.

Speaking of Monaco and league quality. Why wasn't Wenger able to win back to back titles there and dominate? He was in France for a while and never won the title again after his debut and that was a nothing league compared to the Dutch.

Wenger is a good manager but he still has more to go. I think Van Gaal has done it all and really has nothing left to prove. Similar flaws to Wenger or not, he's done a lot more. But I'll be happy for him to fall flat on his face at Utd. Very happy!

Again you could argue that Wenger has used it as an excuse the same way he has used the spending powers of Chelsea and City as an excuse, but Marseille were involved heavily in match fixing for the period he was at Monaco and were stripped of at least one of their titles.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/21/wojciech-szczesny-on-verge-of-roma-transfer-from-arsenal-after-agreeing-terms-5306692/

:wave:

Hmm I don't agree, I'd much rather Ospina leave...where as Szczesny is a dick head he is in my opinion (and that of Bob Wilson) a better keeper. I still think he had a future with us and having some of Cechs level to understudy to could have improved his level....where as Ospina isn't in bad form/bad attitude he's just not good enough. Massive, massive shame...hopefully Cech stays fit so won't have that Colombian clown in goal.

[Marc Overmars]

Telegraph say Chesney could move on loan, which would make more sense to me, as I also agree that he is better than Ospina.

[Power n Glory]

Again you could argue that Wenger has used it as an excuse the same way he has used the spending powers of Chelsea and City as an excuse, but Marseille were involved heavily in match fixing for the period he was at Monaco and were stripped of at least one of their titles.

I remember him speaking on the match fixing. That could be genuine but it doesn't explain the lack of silverware in the domestic cup or Europe.

Anyway, I don't want to keep on beating Wenger's record down. The overall point is that he still has a lot to prove and should be really pushing for success now that we're in the position to.

[Power n Glory]

Ospina is young also and he seems like he had a good Copa America. He's only 26. Szczęsny is 25. May this be a lesson to him if he's leaving. He needs to knuckle down and it's good if Wenger stops reserving spots for players with still much to prove.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ospina is young also and he seems like he had a good Copa America. He's only 26. Szczęsny is 25. May this be a lesson to him if he's leaving. He needs to knuckle down and it's good if Wenger stops reserving spots for players with still much to prove.

I think he had a good game in the Copa America against Argentina, against Venezuela he was all over the fucking shop. Brazil not a great deal better but they were massively wasteful.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't a goal I can think of that we conceded with Ospina in goal where I don't think "yeah should have done better there"

Compare it to Cech, who didn't have much to do on Saturday, but did what he had to do and the goal he conceded had no chance with saving.

[fakeyank]

I am not sure we have seen enough of Ospina to say Szczesny is better, however I have seen enough of Szczesny to know that he will remain a douche bag. I'd rather have someone giving their 100% for the club rather than the talented guy who never fulfilled his promise. He can piss off and I wouldnt bat an eyelid.. good riddance (if true)!

[fakeyank]

Just noticed that Cambiasso is available on a free transfer. IF we are not going in for any of the big guys in fear of 'killing Coq', then I'd get a hold of him and offload Flamini in a heartbeat!

[GP]

Cambiasso is 35 years old.

[I am invisible]

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/21/wojciech-szczesny-on-verge-of-roma-transfer-from-arsenal-after-agreeing-terms-5306692/

:wave:

Weren't we supposed to be after one of Roma's young CBs? Possible part-ex on the cards?

[fakeyank]

Cambiasso is 35 years old.

Still a better backup than Arteta and Flamini combined! Sign him on a one year deal.

[Power n Glory]

I am not sure we have seen enough of Ospina to say Szczesny is better, however I have seen enough of Szczesny to know that he will remain a douche bag. I'd rather have someone giving their 100% for the club rather than the talented guy who never fulfilled his promise. He can piss off and I wouldnt bat an eyelid.. good riddance (if true)!

Similar to how I feel but I like Szczesny. Along with Pod, he was good to follow on social media. :lol:

He loves the club but just needs to grow up a bit.

[Penguin]

Makes sense for one of the back up keepers to go and get some playing time. Neither of them would be happy sitting on the bench, but of the two Ospina looks like he wouldn't mind.

I would have liked Chesney to learn from Cech though because he needs coaching and guidance more than playing time IMO, but meh. At his current level it's no big loss to us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sergi Samper?

Barcelona defensive midfielder who has played for the B team.

Cheap option but if Wenger favours Coquelin could be a competent squad back up

[Dein-machine]

Sergi Samper?

Barcelona defensive midfielder who has played for the B team.

Cheap option but if Wenger favours Coquelin could be a competent squad back up

But in relation to our earlier discussion - this ( if true ) should prove to you the difference between Wenger & Van Gaal. Affordable, world class DM's up for grabs Schneiderlein, Vidal - we go for Samper. Will he sit on the bench for 2 years to be finally loaned out to Watford.
Quite simply today - to compete with teams at the top we need real, proven quality in the starting 11 with like for like replacements on the bench. We have the area of attacking midfielders nicely sown up, we have right back sorted with Debauchy & Bellerin - the rest is poor in view of squad cover. Gibbs is an shit footballer & terrible defender, should have been shopped out ages ago. No real proven quality at CB incase of injury to Kos. A forward line of non-finishers, which then means it doesn't matter who you start with, you've got shit options on the bench. And finally DM - this year the expectancy level on Coq is much higher than last. If Wenger didn't go for a Schneiderlein, Vidal or Carvalho because he rates Coq, then thats the level he'll need to be at. Arteta & Flamini backing him up is pub team so Wengers answer is a Barcelona B team player.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be honest, I don't have a problem with Arteta he's hardly pub team but he doesn't have the legs to play in the defensive midfield position.
I think Flamini is going to leave therefore it makes sense to bring in a squad midfielder....I could understand your argument of bringing in if Wenger was insisting on playing Denilson there, I think the majority of us happy with Coquelin and it seems to make sense to rest him in games against teams we should be getting three points against anyway and playing someone who could be prodigious talent (and who equally might not be but lessens the risk of Coquelin getting injured)
The position where we need to use Wenger vernacular "top, top quality" is up front where we do need an improvement of what we have.
And sorry I don't agree about the defence, for the first time in a long time I am very satisfied with our centre back options.

[Dein-machine]

To be honest, I don't have a problem with Arteta he's hardly pub team but he doesn't have the legs to play in the defensive midfield position.
I think Flamini is going to leave therefore it makes sense to bring in a squad midfielder....I could understand your argument of bringing in if Wenger was insisting on playing Denilson there, I think the majority of us happy with Coquelin and it seems to make sense to rest him in games against teams we should be getting three points against anyway and playing someone who could be prodigious talent (and who equally might not be but lessens the risk of Coquelin getting injured)
The position where we need to use Wenger vernacular "top, top quality" is up front where we do need an improvement of what we have.
And sorry I don't agree about the defence, for the first time in a long time I am very satisfied with our centre back options.

If Arteta doesn't have the legs for DM, where else can you play in midfield without running? - No legs as a footballer = pub team.

Interested in your comments on the defence. I'm the opposite to you on this. I am already convinced that Merts is past it, Chambers looks like an accident waiting to happen & have any of us seen enough of Gabriel to assume he's good enough. Long term injury to Kos scares the life out of me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So Beckham was a pub player for Real Madrid even though he clearly didn't have the legs in the season he won the primera liga with them?

I'm not for a second comparing Arteta and Beckham, also I'd have rather Arteta not stayed with us but pub player is immoderate language. For me I don't think we've utilised Arteta well enough for his dead ball abilities.

Not convinced Mertesacker is past it, he shouldn't be playing every game but that was the case last season because Wenger stupidly didn't bring in a centre back and now he has rectified that mistake....I'm happy with what I've seen of Paulista and I think it's incredibly harsh calling Chambers a disaster waiting to happen, he doesn't have the pace to play at full back where we were sticking him but think he has excellent defensive qualities.

Put it this way I'd rather have our cbs than Man Uniteds or Man City's

[Dein-machine]

So Beckham was a pub player for Real Madrid even though he clearly didn't have the legs in the season he won the primera liga with them?

I'm not for a second comparing Arteta and Beckham, also I'd have rather Arteta not stayed with us but pub player is immoderate language. For me I don't think we've utilised Arteta well enough for his dead ball abilities.

Not convinced Mertesacker is past it, he shouldn't be playing every game but that was the case last season because Wenger stupidly didn't bring in a centre back and now he has rectified that mistake....I'm happy with what I've seen of Paulista and I think it's incredibly harsh calling Chambers a disaster waiting to happen, he doesn't have the pace to play at full back where we were sticking him but think he has excellent defensive qualities.

Put it this way I'd rather have our cbs than Man Uniteds or Man City's

Beckham "legs" were in relation to him being too slow to go past full backs. He still had the legs to track back & do his defensive duties.
Arteta on the other hand simply gets murdered by players running past him in his central defensive role & resigns himself to fouling or pulling at shirts giving away dangerous free-kicks. I feel for him, he was not bought as a DM - he was very creative for Everton but he was a poor version of Fabregas & it soon showed.
Kos gets Merts out of so much trouble at the back & we can't keep relying on him. Someone to slow to play for Germany at CB should not be considered good enough for a team competing a top club level.
Before you say I'm harsh on Chambers, have a look at the time he spends on a pitch against the yellow cards he picks up. I would have thought he tops the all time list already. Needs composure, which I hope will come with experience & time but can't be considered as ideal CB cover, maybe for Palace but not for us.
I agree on the CB's at both Manc clubs, Kompany apart, very poor but I would also suggest that Kos would be the only one of our Cb's either of these club would want to strengthen them.

[Power n Glory]

Agree with of your points made.


Someone to slow to play for Germany at CB should not be considered good enough for a team competing a top club level.

But Merts is a World Cup winner. Too much is made of his pace and I think last season he suffered a bit because he was rushed back to the first team after a long campaign. Kos was terrible without Merts let's remember. Terrible. I think they make a very good partnership and I rate Merts.

[Dein-machine]

Agree with of your points made.



But Merts is a World Cup winner. Too much is made of his pace and I think last season he suffered a bit because he was rushed back to the first team after a long campaign. Kos was terrible without Merts let's remember. Terrible. I think they make a very good partnership and I rate Merts.

My german work colleagues suggest that Merts would have been no better than a German Division 2 player if he was 5ft 11. He has relied on his height throughout his career but in the early days he had a reasonable amount of pace to back it up. Now he doesn't - a sprint from him looks like something in slow motion. He's Ok in the majority of league games when we are dominating possession & only having to deal with the odd long ball but against the top C.L & P.L. strikers he will come unstuck. Remember what Suarez did to him at Anfield & that was a few years ago.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Beckham "legs" were in relation to him being too slow to go past full backs. He still had the legs to track back & do his defensive duties.
Arteta on the other hand simply gets murdered by players running past him in his central defensive role & resigns himself to fouling or pulling at shirts giving away dangerous free-kicks. I feel for him, he was not bought as a DM - he was very creative for Everton but he was a poor version of Fabregas & it soon showed.
Kos gets Merts out of so much trouble at the back & we can't keep relying on him. Someone to slow to play for Germany at CB should not be considered good enough for a team competing a top club level.
Before you say I'm harsh on Chambers, have a look at the time he spends on a pitch against the yellow cards he picks up. I would have thought he tops the all time list already. Needs composure, which I hope will come with experience & time but can't be considered as ideal CB cover, maybe for Palace but not for us.
I agree on the CB's at both Manc clubs, Kompany apart, very poor but I would also suggest that Kos would be the only one of our Cb's either of these club would want to strengthen them.

How many of those yellow cards were picked up as a result of the midfield in front of him not tracking back and covering. Doubtless there is an impetuous side to him which at twenty he has plenty of time to get out of his game, but again you make a giant leap to state that because of this this makes him only good enough to be a squad player for a mid table side.

I think there are plenty of midfielders who don't have the legs to run around the pitch making tackles, but it doesn't relegate them to being pub players. If your saying he shouldn't be playing as a DM absolutely no argument from me but to state that he's closer to playing for the Dog and Duck than maybe producing the odd bit of midfield passing quality to open up a tired defence in a game than I'm not buying it. Do we have plenty of players that can do that and apart from being captain he is surplus to requirements absolutely, but the chasm between that and pub player is a yawning one.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My german work colleagues suggest that Merts would have been no better than a German Division 2 player if he was 5ft 11. He has relied on his height throughout his career but in the early days he had a reasonable amount of pace to back it up. Now he doesn't - a sprint from him looks like something in slow motion. He's Ok in the majority of league games when we are dominating possession & only having to deal with the odd long ball but against the top C.L & P.L. strikers he will come unstuck. Remember what Suarez did to him at Anfield & that was a few years ago.


Your German work colleague?....because he has the same nationality as Mertesacker he's automatically an authority
But that's why you have a squad, Mertesacker not just for his height is our best player at defending set pieces....Koscielny is no midget and yet it's definitely the weakest part of his game.
Would you play Mertesacker against teams that are going to send surging strikers that could run rings round him? No but would you play him against the Stokes of this world yes

[Power n Glory]

My german work colleagues suggest that Merts would have been no better than a German Division 2 player if he was 5ft 11. He has relied on his height throughout his career but in the early days he had a reasonable amount of pace to back it up. Now he doesn't - a sprint from him looks like something in slow motion. He's Ok in the majority of league games when we are dominating possession & only having to deal with the odd long ball but against the top C.L & P.L. strikers he will come unstuck. Remember what Suarez did to him at Anfield & that was a few years ago.

That's Suarez! Saurez, dude. It's not some bum player we're talking about.

Merts is a World Cup winner and we've had our most successful and stable period in defence for a long time under Merts. Kos was blundering all the time before Merts arrived. It's a good partnership and I think people are a little too obsessed with the sight of his slow movement. He reads the game very well and that's an important part of being a defender. I remember Kolo and Verms having pace but both were stupid defenders. They'd charge in before thinking and Kos has that same tendency.

Merts is the least of our worries. Tell your German colleague to eat a sausage. He doesn't know what he's talking about :lol:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's Suarez! Saurez, dude. It's not some bum player we're talking about.

Merts is a World Cup winner and we've had our most successful and stable period in defence for a long time under Merts. Kos was blundering all the time before Merts arrived. It's a good partnership and I think people are a little too obsessed with the sight of his slow movement. He reads the game very well and that's an important part of being a defender. I remember Kolo and Verms having pace but both were stupid defenders. They'd charge in before thinking and Kos has that same tendency.

Merts is the least of our worries. Tell your German colleague to eat a sausage. He doesn't know what he's talking about :lol:

Unbelievable....I completely agree with you.

[Power n Glory]

whadoyaknow! :lol: We were bound to agree on something.

[Syn]

I don't mind Mertesacker, he works very well with Kos. Emphasis on partnerships at CB is more important than individual performances. But if we're looking to take things up a notch, he would be a player that we could improve on. His lack of ability on the ball is a problem. The game has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years. Defenders need to be comfortable on the ball and attackers need to be put in a shift defensively. If CBs are able to get the ball directly to Ozil and other attackers, it really hurts the opposition. Noises from Wenger that Paulista's supposed to be a good ball-playing CB. He'll need to step up.

[Power n Glory]

Has that ever changed? Wenger has always gone for that type of CB but we got ourselves into problems with guys like Kolo and Verm.

[Dein-machine]

Your German work colleague?....because he has the same nationality as Mertesacker he's automatically an authority
But that's why you have a squad, Mertesacker not just for his height is our best player at defending set pieces....Koscielny is no midget and yet it's definitely the weakest part of his game.
Would you play Mertesacker against teams that are going to send surging strikers that could run rings round him? No but would you play him against the Stokes of this world yes

No, because he's seen him play hundreds of times more for club & country than you have.
From memory, didn't fair too well with him against Stoke last year. I actually don't rate him in the air, never in the right place from set pieces & gets beaten in the air by smaller men, he can't jump

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Has that ever changed? Wenger has always gone for that type of CB but we got ourselves into problems with guys like Kolo and Verm.

I think the best centre back partnership we've had in the 21st century was Kolo Toure and Campbell, both had different attributes. Campbell strong, aerially competitive....and wasn't afraid to be assertive vocally with those around him. Kolo Toure quick, good ball player might make mistakes but had the pace and timing to atone for his errors.

Unbeaten season central defensive partnership, nothing else to say.

[Dein-machine]

That's Suarez! Saurez, dude. It's not some bum player we're talking about.

Merts is a World Cup winner and we've had our most successful and stable period in defence for a long time under Merts. Kos was blundering all the time before Merts arrived. It's a good partnership and I think people are a little too obsessed with the sight of his slow movement. He reads the game very well and that's an important part of being a defender. I remember Kolo and Verms having pace but both were stupid defenders. They'd charge in before thinking and Kos has that same tendency.

Merts is the least of our worries. Tell your German colleague to eat a sausage. He doesn't know what he's talking about :lol:

Maybe Suarez Dude! but he's not the fastest man on the planet. Possibly Barca & Madrid's slowest forward. These are the teams I hope you want us to start competing against. If you don't, Merts is fine but if you want to compete stop thinking we can do it with players that arent good enough to play for the teams we're competing against. Its the mistake Wenger has made for years & continues to do so.

[Dein-machine]

I think the best centre back partnership we've had in the 21st century was Kolo Toure and Campbell, both had different attributes. Campbell strong, aerially competitive....and wasn't afraid to be assertive vocally with those around him. Kolo Toure quick, good ball player might make mistakes but had the pace and timing to atone for his errors.

Unbeaten season central defensive partnership, nothing else to say.

Fuck me Herbie - just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower - Kolo - good ball player!!! - I need a lay down.

[Dein-machine]

How many of those yellow cards were picked up as a result of the midfield in front of him not tracking back and covering. Doubtless there is an impetuous side to him which at twenty he has plenty of time to get out of his game, but again you make a giant leap to state that because of this this makes him only good enough to be a squad player for a mid table side.

I think there are plenty of midfielders who don't have the legs to run around the pitch making tackles, but it doesn't relegate them to being pub players. If your saying he shouldn't be playing as a DM absolutely no argument from me but to state that he's closer to playing for the Dog and Duck than maybe producing the odd bit of midfield passing quality to open up a tired defence in a game than I'm not buying it. Do we have plenty of players that can do that and apart from being captain he is surplus to requirements absolutely, but the chasm between that and pub player is a yawning one.

Sorry Herbie, missed this one earlier. Now you want to blame the other midfielders for Arteta's inadequacies - aren't they the same players that have played infront of Coq?

[Dein-machine]

Sorry meant Chambers!!

[Power n Glory]

Maybe Suarez Dude! but he's not the fastest man on the planet. Possibly Barca & Madrid's slowest forward. These are the teams I hope you want us to start competing against. If you don't, Merts is fine but if you want to compete stop thinking we can do it with players that arent good enough to play for the teams we're competing against. Its the mistake Wenger has made for years & continues to do so.

Merts ain't perfect but he's a World Cup winner. It doesn't get higher than that.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Strange one. Suarez doesn't have outright sprint speed, but his dribbling speed and burst of pace on the ball is frighteningly fast, not to mention his general movement and close control.

Anyway, go for Stones. If only to piss off Mourinho.

[GP]

Stones? At that price?

Who do you think we are? Liverpool?

[GP]

Also, Suarez is a genuine worldie. Using him as an example is moronic.

[Globalgunner]

Agreed Suarez could run rings about any CB alive or retired.
But Merts is SLOOOW. Doesnt win headers in his area or the oppositions. He should be phased out slowly, ideally replaced next season

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Chuck a load at Dortmund for Hummels or did he sign a new contract? He covers CB and DCM.

[Power n Glory]

I think the best centre back partnership we've had in the 21st century was Kolo Toure and Campbell, both had different attributes. Campbell strong, aerially competitive....and wasn't afraid to be assertive vocally with those around him. Kolo Toure quick, good ball player might make mistakes but had the pace and timing to atone for his errors.

Unbeaten season central defensive partnership, nothing else to say.

Yeah, I agree. The Campbell Toure partnership worked. Sol was no slouch and quick off the mark but he wasn't the one charging into tackles and nipping ahead of attackers to steal the ball. That was Kolo's job. He was the more aggressive one line Kos is now. We got ourselves into trouble when we had two overly aggressive cb's. Galas and Toure were bad so were Kos and Verm. Once Merts stepped in, Kos looked a million miles better and I think Verm looked a little better too. You need someone to cover. You need that organiser and I think we found that in Merts. I

[Özim]

Never rated Mertersacker very highly, he's as slow as an overloaded barge and doesn't have the football brain or anticipation to make up for it, he's also useless on the ball, we've got Paulista but should consider another CB to replace him (Hummels is a good shout).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Liverpool sign Benteke for £32.5 million.

Mentalists.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/189394-liverpool-complete-benteke-signing

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Great player.

Always been a fan. Probably.

[Özim]

Liverpool sign Benteke for £32.5 million.

Mentalists.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/189394-liverpool-complete-benteke-signing

If he gets them 25-30 goals next season he'll be worth it, there's no reason why he won't he got 49 in 101 for Villa and Liverpool are a better team.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He's not at that level, that's my reason.

[Özim]

He's not at that level, that's my reason.

People might have said that about Suarez before they signed him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They didn't buy him for £32.5 million and at least he had a history of high goalscoring seasons.

Come on Zim, you are reaching by just plucking Suarez out of the air as an example.

[Özim]

They didn't buy him for £32.5 million and at least he had a history of high goalscoring seasons.

Come on Zim, you are reaching by just plucking Suarez out of the air as an example.

They paid 23 million 5 years ago (prices have been going up so it's not far off) and Suarez goals were in the Dutch league which is a lower standard than the PL, Benteke has 49 goals in 100 games, that's a great record whichever you look at it, you might not like him but he's a goalscorer that's without question and in a better team he may well score more.

32 million is a lot, but these days that's the going rate for someone who scores goals.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

He's make or break for Rodgers, that's for sure.

In other news, City are seemingly in negotiation for De Bruyne :wacko:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

They paid 23 million 5 years ago (prices have been going up so it's not far off) and Suarez goals were in the Dutch league which is a lower standard than the PL, Benteke has 49 goals in 100 games, that's a great record whichever you look at it, you might not like him but he's a goalscorer that's without question and in a better team he may well score more.

32 million is a lot, but these days that's the going rate for someone who scores goals.

The going rate for a guy that has scored 15 and 11 in his last two seasons. :wacko:

I can't quite fathom how you can seriously suggest Benteke has anywhere near the capabilities that Suarez (has reached); he has nowhere near the same skillset and it does him a disservice to even mention him really. Suarez is a guy with great talent, he is mental but he works his arse off in every game. Benteke doesn't and doesn't.

[Özim]

The going rate for a guy that has scored 15 and 11 in his last two seasons. :wacko:

I can't quite fathom how you can seriously suggest Benteke has anywhere near the capabilities that Suarez (has reached); he has nowhere near the same skillset and it does him a disservice to even mention him really. Suarez is a guy with great talent, he is mental but he works his arse off in every game. Benteke doesn't and doesn't.

I'm not suggesting he's anywhere near as good as Suarez, just that he scores goals, he got 23 in his 1st season for Villa and the following season was hampered by injuries, he also spent a long time on the sidelines last season so that takes time to come back from. He's got potential to score a fair few goals in the right team.

[Letters]

Great player.

Always been a fan. Probably.

He's fine, but £32m good? Well, in a world where Sterling is 'worth' £49m then maybe, but it's all very silly.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

He's fine, but £32m good? Well, in a world where Sterling is 'worth' £49m then maybe, but it's all very silly.


£32.5 MILLION POUNDS for Benteke!

::crying:: :faint:

Fair to say I'm... on the fence.