Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

In the words of Stevie G, "we go again":

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/556047/Manchester-United-Arsenal-Marco-Reus-standoff

Reus available for £20m due to a clause apparently. Wenger wants him. Apparently.

[Globalgunner]

Yes please, I want him too. In the nicest possible way. Let Arteta go

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Isn't he an attacking midfielder? If anything he should be Rosicky's replacement if Tommy leaves, but he's not going anywhere yet so I don't think we need another AM.

A top class DM and that should be the final piece to the puzzle.

He finally sorted the attack 2.5 years after RVP left.
Finally sorted the defence with the signing of Paulista.
Next up DM.

Once that's done, theoretically, we should be ready for a title charge... :ilt:

[Niall_Quinn]

In the words of Stevie G, "we go again":

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/556047/Manchester-United-Arsenal-Marco-Reus-standoff

Reus available for £20m due to a clause apparently. Wenger wants him. Apparently.

We must not let this one fucking slip!

But do we need Reus? Not really.

You can picture Wenger going through a sticker album and picking out all the attacking midfielders, got, got, got, got, got, need, almost got.

[AFC Leveller]

We must not let this one fucking slip!

But do we need Reus? Not really.

You can picture Wenger going through a sticker album and picking out all the attacking midfielders, got, got, got, got, got, need, almost got.

LOL

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Yes please, I want him too. In the nicest possible way. Let Arteta go

Ehhh? Completely different positions. Reus is a wide forward/AM ...... see Sanchez.

All the sources seem to indicate that Reus is pretty much a shoe in for Real Madrid this summer once his (at this point well known) 20 million pounds release clause kicks in and apparently he wants to go. Can't blame him either given how shit Dortmund are right now. Apparently Chelsea inquired this window but were pretty much told that his heart was set on Real which is why they ended up going for Cuadrado instead.

At any rate, the last thing we need is Reus right now. With Sanchez, Theo, Ox, Welbeck and <Insert numerous AM's that can play there>, we really don't need him unless someone was going to leave. Not that Madrid really need him either with Ronaldo and Bale there but I suppose they need to keep up their "one mega superstar every summer" policy.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We mos def don't need him but I wouldn't say no to a player of his quality and at that price. Common sense should tell you a young German player would think twice about moving there if he wants to play. Isco is even beginning to turn it on over there too....

I'm not sure who's place at Real he's going to take. Of course he could still easily end up going.

Sanchez, Reus, Ozil......is into dream team territory though.....

Can't help but feel that unless we become as good a collective sum of our parts as Bayern are, that a world class CF is still missing from this team. There's a slight question mark over the goalkeepers and we should be pursuing a DM.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

--------- Giroud------

Reus ---- Ozil ---- Sanchez


:faint:

That would be bloody ridiculous.

[Heisenberg]

Reus would be lovely but I doubt it'll happen and even if it did, we ought to bolster other areas of the squad before we beef the attack up even more.

[Globalgunner]

Ehhh? Completely different positions. Reus is a wide forward/AM ...... see Sanchez.

All the sources seem to indicate that Reus is pretty much a shoe in for Real Madrid this summer once his (at this point well known) 20 million pounds release clause kicks in and apparently he wants to go. Can't blame him either given how shit Dortmund are right now. Apparently Chelsea inquired this window but were pretty much told that his heart was set on Real which is why they ended up going for Cuadrado instead.

At any rate, the last thing we need is Reus right now. With Sanchez, Theo, Ox, Welbeck and <Insert numerous AM's that can play there>, we really don't need him unless someone was going to leave. Not that Madrid really need him either with Ronaldo and Bale there but I suppose they need to keep up their "one mega superstar every summer" policy.

Arteta is and always was an AM. The fact that Wumger felt the need to shoehorn him into a position he is obviously not suited for should not change the historical facts from his time at Rangers and before Arteta was an AM.
If we are collecting them like stamps, then lets get us a Penny Black instead of a Zimbabwe Mugabe special edition.

As for Real, why go there? Asides from earning 200kpw.

[selassie]

My opinion is that Reus is too good to pass up on and if he did want to come here then we should be all over it. He's world class, and to be brutally honest I would sacrifice one of Theo or Ox If that what it takes to get Reus here.

Can you imagine Reus and Sanchez on both flanks, oh my....

[AFC Leveller]

Seriously thought, WTF is happening to Dortmund? rock bottom with virtually the same squad (bar the polish fella). They are in real danger of going down too.

Reus is just top class, so elegant and efficient. Id definitely have him over any of our attacking players (bar Alexis, Santi and Ox). We could do a deal with Bayern, give them Ozil and ask them not to snif around for Reus.

[AFC Leveller]

According to some Spanish paper, Sanchez is considering leaving after being snubbed twice for the player of the month awards.

:rolleyes:

[Zerlathon]

Reus would be a great addition, but up front is the one place where numbers is not an issue.

That would obviously change if we have a major shake-up and getting rid of Players who obviously have no future with us.

Players I can see potentially going are:

Podolski (Talented, but far to lazy for Arsenal's playstyle)
Miyaichi (Failed to deliver on potential)
Jenkinson (Can't see him getting in now with Debuchy and Bellerin, and I doubt he'd be happy with 3rd choice)
Campbell (I think the new deal was just to ensure we get a good fee for him)
Diaby (Tragic, but we need to let go at some point)
Sanogo (He's on/off form reminds me of Moneybayor... Once burnt twice shy and all that)
*Wilshere (Was touted as our "Gerrard", but his position is flooded with players of same or better quality... His off pitch smoking isn't doing him any favors)
Arteta (Given his age, can he keep up with the energy and tempo that we have been playing to as of late... I doubt it)
Flamini (I remember seeing something suggesting that he wants to end his career in France, so may aswell cash in whilst we can get something)
* Rosicky (He's a eager beaver, so I can see him wanting out to play more given how little time he has left in the top flight)
* Cazorla (Perhaps the money grabbers upstairs will want to cash in given his amazing form this season)

I put an * by Wilshere, Cazorla and Rosicky as I don't wan't them to leave!

Obviously, nobody should be leaving unless we find suitable (or better) replacements.

[LDG]

Miyaichi :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Sanogo should leave, even if all our other strikers leave. Or die.

[GP]

Miyaichi is worse than Letters' wardrobe.

[fakeyank]

We have barely seen anything of him (Miyachi) to say that.. Letters on the other hand :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Seriously thought, WTF is happening to Dortmund? rock bottom with virtually the same squad (bar the polish fella). They are in real danger of going down too.

Reus is just top class, so elegant and efficient. Id definitely have him over any of our attacking players (bar Alexis, Santi and Ox). We could do a deal with Bayern, give them Ozil and ask them not to snif around for Reus.

Dortmund and Klopp are a disgrace. They're going down.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Arteta is and always was an AM. The fact that Wumger felt the need to shoehorn him into a position he is obviously not suited for should not change the historical facts from his time at Rangers and before Arteta was an AM.
If we are collecting them like stamps, then lets get us a Penny Black instead of a Zimbabwe Mugabe special edition.

As for Real, why go there? Asides from earning 200kpw.

How's that in any way relevant though? He may have been an AM when he first arrived but everyone on here knows that he's been playing as a DM for us and that's the role he takes up in the squad. :rolleyes:

I agree he's not suited for the role which is why we need to focus on bringing in a world class player in that position this summer (Schniderlin, Bender etc) instead of wasting resources and time going for a player who:

A) We don't need
B) Has so many suitors that he's unlikely choose us even if we were interested

And for the same reason why most players who haven't already been there, dream of Real Madrid: the glamour and reputation of the club. It's the biggest club in the world with superstars in nearly every position.

Wouldn't shock me if they got rid of Bale this summer to make room for him either as the latter has been getting a few jeers from the fickle Madrid crowd .... Real are well known for their superstar merry-go-round.

Personally think if he had any sense he'd go to to Bayern as with Robben aging and Ribery losing it, he's guaranteed a starting berth but I'd hate to see yet another Dortmund player being taken by Bayern.


Seriously thought, WTF is happening to Dortmund? rock bottom with virtually the same squad (bar the polish fella). They are in real danger of going down too.


Combination of reasons by the looks of it:

- Losing their best player ever summer and replacing them with inferior players eventually becomes noticeable. For example, Immobile is no where close to Lewondonski

- Klopp running their current team into the ground, resulting in numerous injuries and general fatigue. Dortmund's style of play is very aggressive and physically intensive and that eventually takes it's toll on players. People moan about Wenger doing a similar thing at times (see Ramsey last year) but Klopp's a hundred times worse at it.

- Teams finally figuring out Klopp's tactics and adjusting accordingly

- Confidence. We can speak from experience about this, but it becomes a cycle of negativity and bad results lead to further bad results as the team has zero confidence and end up making stupid mistakes as a result.

- Their defence has gone to complete shit this season. People wank the fuck out of Hummels but he's been absolutely garbage this season. I actually do hope United are silly enough to splurge £40 of so million on him or whatever they're speculating on Redcafe as I think he's very overrated.

Think Raphael Honegistein wrote a really good piece about Dortmund's demise recently.

I still don't think they'll go down though. It's very tight there and a couple of back to back wins will be enough to lift them out and they have enough quality to be able to do that.

Mind you, they'll be rich for picking if they do go down though. Wouldn't mind a bit of Ginter or Sven Bender myself. :cloud9:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

My opinion is that Reus is too good to pass up on and if he did want to come here then we should be all over it. He's world class, and to be brutally honest I would sacrifice one of Theo or Ox If that what it takes to get Reus here.

Can you imagine Reus and Sanchez on both flanks, oh my....

As Arsenal fans we have a tendency to suddenly think we're too good for anything but the very best (Messi) as soon as we a get a quality player through the door (Sanchez). Imagine not seriously considering Reus for 20 million if he was actually available for that!?

As a business acquisition alone it would almost be insane not to take it up.

[Niall_Quinn]

As Arsenal fans we have a tendency to suddenly think we're too good for anything but the very best (Messi) as soon as we a get a quality player through the door (Sanchez). Imagine not seriously considering Reus for 20 million if he was actually available for that!?

As a business acquisition alone it would almost be insane not to take it up.

Consider his wage demands too.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Raphael H is one of my favourite football reporters........ and it was he who said that all this abject football they've been playing has come in spite of having the best squad of players Dortmund have ever had. In view of that, I don't think losing a few of their best players even in successive seasons should be an excuse. Klopp has to take a lot of stick.

I'd be interested in knowing a few of the CB's you think are fundamentally better than Hummels outside of these shores......and why? Emirates gooner.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Consider his wage demands too.

Even with that in mind. A player of his quality could easily double/triple in value if he does as well as his talent suggests he can here. In fact 20 million is already way under priced for him. He's at Dortmund not Chelsea.

Gotze was famously on about 13k a week at Dortmund (which was a big reason for our interest in such a prestigious talent to begin with) not an age before he skipped on out of there to join Pep Guardiola and the anti tika takkers brigade.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Raphael H is one of my favourite football reporters........ and it was he who said that all this abject football they've been playing has come in spite of having the best squad of players Dortmund have ever had. In view of that, I don't think losing a few of their best players even in successive seasons should be an excuse. Klopp has to take a lot of stick.

I'd be interested in knowing a few of the CB's you think are fundamentally better than Hummels outside of these shores......and why? Emirates gooner.

It's not that I think Hummels is a bad defender Blink, it's just I think he's become horribly overrated though that's partly due to a dearth of top CB's around. I mean, right after the World Cup and prior to Dortmund's slump you would have looked at a minimum of 35 million to even get Dortmund to the table for him which is ridiculous money. Whilst not as slow (and subsequently ridiculed) for it as Mertesacker is, he's not exactly fast either and you generally have to play him alongside a quicker CB (e.g. Boateng in the national team). He makes the odd clanger and like I alluded to in my first post, he's been the captain of the Dortmund team that are rock bottom of the table this season; he needs to take responsibility for that as that's partly due to his own poor performances.

Whilst probably a tad foolish in hindsight you do have to remember that there was a reason why Bayern decided to let Hummels go at the time in favour of Badstuber who they considered the better prospect. May be Arsenal bias, but for me Kos is a better defender than him and in fact one of the best around in the world; wouldn't trade him in for anyone.

And I completely agree with regards to RH's assessment of Klopp. He needs to take a massive share of the blame of the current predicament. You can understand them having one season not challenging and being around 5/6th or even mid table ....... but rock bottom? No way? It's not like they haven't spent money either; they've got the second highest net spent in the Bundesliga as well alongside Wolfsburg for the last couple of years I believe, though perhaps that figure should be a bit lower as they didn't get as much for their superstars as they should have (Lewandoski left on a free & Gotze had a release clause).

Still, there's no way players of the quality of Reus, Hummels, Sahin, Mkitryahan, Gundogen, Pizaweck etc etc should be anywhere near a relegation battle and the fact that they are is a damning indictment against Klopp. One of the consequences of Dortmund's slump is that it's going to make many clubs look twice at Klopp when they need a new manager ......... you would have thought he'd be a shoe in for a club like ours once Wenger leaves but probably not anymore.

It's not been as bad as the lesson I learnt after "Martinez" but seeing Klopp's current plight does give me a lot more appreciation for Wenger and his longevity and keeping us there or there abouts despite similar challenges (losing their best players etc etc). It's not as easy as people make out.

[Edinburgh Gooner]

What's all this shite I'm seeing about Sanchez being unhappy cos the fans have voted santi player of the month the last 2 times.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Goal.com and their usual click bait antics apparently.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's all this shite I'm seeing about Sanchez being unhappy cos the fans have voted santi player of the month the last 2 times.

Cunts like Durham and the pond life at goal.com are writing shit about him because he's in the spotlight and they see an angle to grab a better spot on the backsteet corner near the docks.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's not that I think Hummels is a bad defender Blink, it's just I think he's become horribly overrated though that's partly due to a dearth of top CB's around. I mean, right after the World Cup and prior to Dortmund's slump you would have looked at a minimum of 35 million to even get Dortmund to the table for him which is ridiculous money. Whilst not as slow (and subsequently ridiculed) for it as Mertesacker is, he's not exactly fast either and you generally have to play him alongside a quicker CB (e.g. Boateng in the national team). He makes the odd clanger and like I alluded to in my first post, he's been the captain of the Dortmund team that are rock bottom of the table this season; he needs to take responsibility for that as that's partly due to his own poor performances.

Whilst probably a tad foolish in hindsight you do have to remember that there was a reason why Bayern decided to let Hummels go at the time in favour of Badstuber who they considered the better prospect. May be Arsenal bias, but for me Kos is a better defender than him and in fact one of the best around in the world; wouldn't trade him in for anyone.

And I completely agree with regards to RH's assessment of Klopp. He needs to take a massive share of the blame of the current predicament. You can understand them having one season not challenging and being around 5/6th or even mid table ....... but rock bottom? No way? It's not like they haven't spent money either; they've got the second highest net spent in the Bundesliga as well alongside Wolfsburg for the last couple of years I believe, though perhaps that figure should be a bit lower as they didn't get as much for their superstars as they should have (Lewandoski left on a free & Gotze had a release clause).

Still, there's no way players of the quality of Reus, Hummels, Sahin, Mkitryahan, Gundogen, Pizaweck etc etc should be anywhere near a relegation battle and the fact that they are is a damning indictment against Klopp. One of the consequences of Dortmund's slump is that it's going to make many clubs look twice at Klopp when they need a new manager ......... you would have thought he'd be a shoe in for a club like ours once Wenger leaves but probably not anymore.

It's not been as bad as the lesson I learnt after "Martinez" but seeing Klopp's current plight does give me a lot more appreciation for Wenger and his longevity and keeping us there or there abouts despite similar challenges (losing their best players etc etc). It's not as easy as people make out.

Perhaps there's something in the possibility his ratings have been boosted by the dearth of top quality CB's in world football, but I suppose that would apply to anyone else too wouldn't it? Many have suggested it has with Thiago Silva and I have some sympathy for that view.

I think for the most unbiased view you'd have to ask neutrals and I doubt how many neutrals would claim Koscielny as the best in the world. ...in spite of how much we appreciate him. He has a clanger in him too.

Bayern let Hummel's go so long ago I'd forgotten it happened and I've never quite got the suggestion that he is anything like slow....but that's just my personal view. I am happy with our CB options though....finally and am actually looking forward to seeing Paulista play. I'm even enjoying Monreal!

[Dein-machine]

Shopping List!

1, World class Goalkeeper if Ospina turns out to be dodgy. If not, a decent proven reserve Keeper like Cech.
2, Central defender to allow Merts to go. Need one with experience in view of the others.
3, A quality left back to allow Monreal to go.
4, Cover at right back incase Debouch turns out to be the new Diaby.
5, World class Defensive midfielder
6, World class CF - proven finisher to allow Giroud to go.

Not one a year Wenger - we need the lot.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31367988

Reus signs a new contract at Dortmund. Well there goes his famous 20 million pound release clause.


Probably just to ensure Dortmund get a decent price for him this summer but that ends whatever little speculation there was linking him to us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd be surprised if there isn't a get out clause in the event of relegation.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Shopping List!

1, World class Goalkeeper if Ospina turns out to be dodgy. If not, a decent proven reserve Keeper like Cech.
2, Central defender to allow Merts to go. Need one with experience in view of the others.
3, A quality left back to allow Monreal to go.
4, Cover at right back incase Debouch turns out to be the new Diaby.
5, World class Defensive midfielder
6, World class CF - proven finisher to allow Giroud to go.

Not one a year Wenger - we need the lot.

Chelsea wouldn't sell us a cold.

Paulista will either take Per's place or not.

Monreal has had a decent season at left back and I think Bellerin, Chmbers and jenkinson is enough right back cover already.

5 and 6 I agree with though I don't think we need to chase Giroud out the club.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Shopping List!

1, World class Goalkeeper if Ospina turns out to be dodgy. If not, a decent proven reserve Keeper like Cech.
2, Central defender to allow Merts to go. Need one with experience in view of the others.
3, A quality left back to allow Monreal to go.
4, Cover at right back incase Debouch turns out to be the new Diaby.
5, World class Defensive midfielder
6, World class CF - proven finisher to allow Giroud to go.

Not one a year Wenger - we need the lot.

:blink:

[BOBN]

Shopping List!

1, World class Goalkeeper if Ospina turns out to be dodgy. If not, a decent proven reserve Keeper like Cech.
2, Central defender to allow Merts to go. Need one with experience in view of the others.
3, A quality left back to allow Monreal to go.
4, Cover at right back incase Debouch turns out to be the new Diaby.
5, World class Defensive midfielder
6, World class CF - proven finisher to allow Giroud to go.

Not one a year Wenger - we need the lot.
You sound like a lady.

[Dein-machine]

You sound like a lady.

You've just come up with the ideal solution to our Wenger problem - put my wife in charge for a year. We'll buy every fucker, even if we don't need them & can't afford them.

[AFC Leveller]

According to a well sourced radio station in spaine, Cazorla has agreed personal terms to join Atletico Madrid.

Now i know this sounds like BS since he is playing the best footy of his career and looks like he is enjoying his footy, not to mention the fact that he recently signed a new contract but to me it looks wenger loves Ozil and wants to make him his number 10 long term, ozil is about 6 years younger and santi is over 30 and might want to end his career back home.

[Master Splinter]

Cazorla is linked with Atletico every week.

He's their Kalou. Or M'Vila. Or Trabelsi. Or Marica.

[Marc Overmars]

Balague has said Atletico's interest is genuine and they have made contact.

I guess with him having a year left it's going to be the big summer talking point on if he goes or not.

[fakeyank]

They can take Wilshere and 5 million OR Wilshere, Sczesny and 10 million.


But keep your hands off Cathorla!!! :angry:

[AFC Leveller]

“He has 18 months left on his contract at Arsenal, and Atletico have contacted Cazorla’s entourage,” Ballague said.

Cazorla, 29, was voted Arsenal player of the year last season, is believed to have extended his deal until 2017.

[Niall_Quinn]

Cazorla, 29, was voted Arsenal player of the year last season, is believed to have extended his deal until 2017.

Hope this is true. Means we have woken up and are starting to deal with these situation properly.

[fakeyank]

Cazorla, 29, was voted Arsenal player of the year last season, is believed to have extended his deal until 2017.

:lol:

Simeone :pal:

Athletico :pal:

Wenger :bow:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

They can take Wilshere and 5 million OR Wilshere, Sczesny and 10 million.


But keep your hands off Cathorla!!! :angry:

Yeah we need some cash thrown in on any deal so that we can pay 80 mil for Pogba :haha:

[Munchies]

Feo will have 12 months left on his deal in the summer

From arseblog:

Last time this happened, Walcott was in a rather unique position in that big-names like Robin van Persie and Samir Nasri – in the same contractual position – had been sold and, after also losing Cesc Fabregas, the club just could not afford to let him go. Not simply for footballing reasons, but because of what it would have said about the ability to hang on to players of real importance to the team.

It meant that Theo and his people had a very, very strong bargaining position, and were able to use the fear the club felt to play it out until beyond January, at which point he signed a deal which made him the highest paid player at the club. None of which, by the way, is to be critical of that brinksmanship, because that’s the way it works in football and they took full advantage of the situation.

Now though, it’s quite different. Theo, while still a very marketable commodity, and a player who provides a goal threat, doesn’t have anywhere near the same importance to the first team or the club’s image as a whole. Quite what his intentions are regarding a new deal are anyone’s guess, but my suspicion is the club won’t be quite as willing to accommodate another drawn-out saga as they were back throughout the summer of 2012 and into January 2013 when the deal was completed.

Things have changed considerably, and if there’s an obviously reluctance on the manager’s part to use a player you have to wonder if that would be reflected in our decision when it comes to a new deal. I think we probably want him to stay, but on terms dictated much more by us than him and his advisers. It’s definitely a situation to keep an eye on, and if we get to the summer without agreement, we might see him move on.

[Marc Overmars]

He's a useful player and it would be daft to sell him. I don't really understand why Wenger has frozen him out.

I agree though he's not really in a position to bargain this time.

[Niall_Quinn]

Don't think he's frozen him out, he;s just struggling to accommodate 9,763,881 attacking midfielders.

[Özim]

He's always injured, makes him not very valuable in my book, he's not a massive talent anyway, if we lost him it would be no big deal, he's been overrated from the day he arrived.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Well we have significantly more leverage now than we did back then. He's delusional if he thinks he'll be capable of starting for a better team than ours right now. Possibly a Liverpool but we're a much more attractive team than them right now as the Alexis deal should attest to.

It's up to him to force his way in to the first team because judging by the increasing ruthlessness Wenger's shown this season (Ches, Chambers, BFG etc getting dropped for poor form), no one is safe. His goals return is very impressive but similar to Podolski, his all round game isn't up to par ...... which is something that he needs to work on. He's basically the complete opposite of a Welbeck.

I want him to say personally because I like him and what he offers but I won't be shedding many tears if he leaves either. The ball's in his court. Try and fight his way into a team that's on the up and should always be a top four team or take an easier path with guaranteed first team football at a lower league club like Southampton or Newcastle.

[Letters]

He's always injured, makes him not very valuable in my book, he's not a massive talent anyway, if we lost him it would be no big deal, he's been overrated from the day he arrived.

He had 6 seasons in a row where he played the majority of games. He had one quite nasty injury but it's too early to throw the towel in with him just yet.
Couple of years ago, the last full season he played before his injury, he got 21 goals in 43 games.

[fakeyank]

On the same terms, I'd renew his contract. His 2-0 sign to spurs fans is the stuff of legends. He is making some wonderful runs cutting in from the right and I have not seen many players in our team make those runs. I'd rather have him playing for us than another team.

[Özim]

He had 6 seasons in a row where he played the majority of games. He had one quite nasty injury but it's too early to throw the towel in with him just yet.
Couple of years ago, the last full season he played before his injury, he got 21 goals in 43 games.

I've never really rated the guy, his record is average 290 games for us and 72 goals, he's had one season where he got 21 goals in his other seasons he's been nowhere near that (next best was 13 which is just not good enough).

I don't see anything outstanding about him, he's been with us almost 10 years now, plenty of time to prove yourself and he really hasn't and he is often injured.

He's easy to contain, if he runs at you hack him down and he'll go off injured and be out for 3 months, all he has is pace basically, there's no finesse about him. IMO he's one of those players we need to improve on if we're to ever get back to the top.

[Maestro]

Theo will be good squad fodder to tick the "English/Homegrown" quota for City, Chelsea and Utd. Liverpool and the rest would buy and play him.

If we package him nicely we could get a decent amount and spend in areas of greater need. Theo has his quality of pace, and good finishing at times, but basically not a very good "football player" You don't get much in 90 minutes from the lad and have to accept/compensate for his weaknesses....poor first touch, poor control and average passing IMHO, typical English player.

Decent coming off the bench for some impact, shock and awe for tired defenders and great against the poorer or less prepared teams. Not fussed if he stays, not fussed if he goes.

[Power n Glory]

Be prepared to go through the same with Theo's replacement, Danny Welbeck, if Theo leaves.

Theo's wasted his career with us. He should have been developed as a striker and it he may have to look at Sturridge as an example of a player that had to move before getting played in his correct position.

Funny enough, Welbeck was probably looking at that Sturridge move and thinking he'd get his opportunity up front with us instead of Utd. It's looking like he's made a mistake.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We need to improve but we're never bothered if a player who is an asset to us, slips away.....

I've always found the passive aggressive dislike for him disconcerting....

Get him to sign and let's move forward.

[Marc Overmars]

We need to improve but we're never bothered if a player who is an asset to us, slips away.....

I've always found the passive aggressive dislike for him disconcerting....

Get him to sign and let's move forward.

Trouble is we've had so many players who've blown hot and cold I don't think we can even see who's an asset and who is disposable anymore.

For me, Theo should be kept. No brainer. I don't think Welbeck is a superior player in the slightest.

[Özim]

I'd hardly call him an asset, he's spent half his career on the treatment table, has had one decent season in almost 10 years for us and has limited talent. We need to improve on players like this if we're going to move forward, a good squad player would at least stay fit for a reasonable percentage of the season.

[Özim]

Trouble is we've had so many players who've blown hot and cold I don't think we can even see who's an asset and who is disposable anymore.

For me, Theo should be kept. No brainer. I don't think Welbeck is a superior player in the slightest.

Wellbeck isn't superior I agree, but we all knew he was average when we signed him, we're lumbered with him for a fair few years now as well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Realistically where would Walcott go?

[GP]

http://i.imgur.com/yRzsLbG.gif

[Letters]

I'd hardly call him an asset, he's spent half his career on the treatment table.
No, he hasn't. Stop spouting bullshit 'facts' to back up your silly little biases.

[Özim]

No, he hasn't. Stop spouting bullshit 'facts' to back up your silly little biases.

He's a crock, he seems to get injured regularly. He wasn't called Theo Walnut for nothing.

[Letters]

He's a crock, he seems to get injured regularly. He wasn't called Theo Walnut for nothing.

25
22
23
28
35
32

The number of league games he played in the 6 seasons before last season when he got that nasty injury.
Close to 75% of our league games.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wonder why Arseblog started this shit? As far as I know neither Walcott nor his agent have been fussing. They might do in the coming months by why are we pre-empting it?

Walcott and Welbeck are both good players - by PL standards. PL standards are very, very low. There are hardly any genuinely good players in this league. We hold up mediocre shit like Kompany and Rooney as world beaters. By that standard Walcott is one of the best players in the league so we need to hang on to him if we can, just like we need to hang on to Wilshere and Ramsey. It's been a long time since our squad wasn't stuffed up with shit. The deadwood has been brushed out, the squad is in decent shape. We need to add a couple more players, not dump the ones we have.

Walcott will get his chance. We're not into round 2 of the Arsenal injury bonanza yet. Let's not get complacent just because we don't have 20 players in the treatment room. That'll come soon enough.

[LDG]

I wonder why Arseblog started this shit? As far as I know neither Walcott nor his agent have been fussing. They might do in the coming months by why are we pre-empting it?



Used to like reading his blog, but it has become very stale now.

Start: I was dreaming last night that *insert weird arsenal fantasy here*

Middle: But anyway, we have a game on this week, and I wonder whether *insert fumblings about players*

End: Till tomorrow


Fuckin yawn-athon.

Maybe he's looking for something to write about? In all honesty, as people slowly realise there isn't much worth talking about with Arsenal anymore, it becomes very difficult to write a daily blog...let along make it interesting.

[fakeyank]

Used to like reading his blog, but it has become very stale now.

Start: I was dreaming last night that *insert weird arsenal fantasy here*

Middle: But anyway, we have a game on this week, and I wonder whether *insert fumblings about players*

End: Till tomorrow


Fuckin yawn-athon.

Maybe he's looking for something to write about? In all honesty, as people slowly realise there isn't much worth talking about with Arsenal anymore, it becomes very difficult to write a daily blog...let along make it interesting.

I stopped reading his blog a few years back. I think he was bought by the board to run their propaganda and I got sick of his writing about bacon and Arsenal. I do see that he brings up a few good points here and there but he is not funny or interesting anymore.

[Letters]

I will NEVER get sick of reading about bacon.
Mmm...bacon.

[fakeyank]

I will NEVER get sick of reading about bacon.
Mmm...bacon.

It is Haram! :sick:

[Letters]

It is Haram! :sick:

So's your face :p

[Niall_Quinn]

So's your face :p

It took you over 4 hours to come back with that? :doh:

[Letters]

I've been out <_<

[Niall_Quinn]

I've been out <_<

So has your face.

(see how fast that was?)

[Letters]

(see how fast that was?)

That's not always a good thing (according to MrsL)

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I wonder why Arseblog started this shit? As far as I know neither Walcott nor his agent have been fussing. They might do in the coming months by why are we pre-empting it?

Walcott and Welbeck are both good players - by PL standards. PL standards are very, very low. There are hardly any genuinely good players in this league. We hold up mediocre shit like Kompany and Rooney as world beaters. By that standard Walcott is one of the best players in the league so we need to hang on to him if we can, just like we need to hang on to Wilshere and Ramsey. It's been a long time since our squad wasn't stuffed up with shit. The deadwood has been brushed out, the squad is in decent shape. We need to add a couple more players, not dump the ones we have.

Walcott will get his chance. We're not into round 2 of the Arsenal injury bonanza yet. Let's not get complacent just because we don't have 20 players in the treatment room. That'll come soon enough.

I never quite got his issue with Walcott. If you read between the lines he speaks as if he knows something we don't and naturally, were that the case, he couldn't just come out and say, but in any case I feel like he has been harsh on him in the past.

The PL's standards may be low but it is still quite easily in the top 2 leagues in the world. I feel a bandwagon of 'Kompany is actually crap' has emerged of late. I don't expect you to commend any City player, loathe are you to credit anything remotely connected with their club, but a lot of other people have got on his back just because it has been highlighted that he has made a mistake in his professional career on occasion. I'm still of the opinion we should have signed him years ago, such is his ability and professionalism and he hasn't made nearly enough cock ups to make me renege on that.

Walcott isn't a world class player, but you only need to listen to Messi's thoughts on him to understand what an 'ASSET' he is. We aren't talking ex pro, viagra pedelling, partial to an incredible statement Pele, crediting his long lost African brother in El Hadj Diouf kind of praise either. It's praise for one of the all time greats, in his prime still playing.

We lost Podolski the best finisher at the club already. No need to lose the second best too.... Chambers' end product isn't nearly consistent enough for us to augur this high and mighty attitude about losing exceptional players.

[Master Splinter]

Kompany has been poor for a long while now.

And he's been genuinely atrocious this season. Even the moronic pundits who stick to their uninformed, pre-ordained scripts for seasons on end have had to rip them up and admit he's been a liability such has been his awfulness.

It's just like Hart. He had one good season in the Premier League and that was enough to propel him to virtually the best in the world status in their eyes. Since then, they've been extremely dodgy but are still apparently 'world class'.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Used to like reading his blog, but it has become very stale now.

Start: I was dreaming last night that *insert weird arsenal fantasy here*

Middle: But anyway, we have a game on this week, and I wonder whether *insert fumblings about players*

End: Till tomorrow


Fuckin yawn-athon.

Maybe he's looking for something to write about? In all honesty, as people slowly realise there isn't much worth talking about with Arsenal anymore, it becomes very difficult to write a daily blog...let along make it interesting.

True. I struggle to write a post a day.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's not always a good thing (according to MrsL)

Well I'm not going to hang around for you to catch me at it.

[mastermind84]

Be prepared to go through the same with Theo's replacement, Danny Welbeck, if Theo leaves.

Theo's wasted his career with us. He should have been developed as a striker and it he may have to look at Sturridge as an example of a player that had to move before getting played in his correct position.

Funny enough, Welbeck was probably looking at that Sturridge move and thinking he'd get his opportunity up front with us instead of Utd. It's looking like he's made a mistake.
Sturridge has much better technique than Theo. Not even close.

Welbeck is more the opposite of Sturridge.

[BOBN]

Manchester City are reportedly lining up a deal to sign Jack Wilshere from Arsenal at the end of the season.

City, who have a long history of signing stars from Arsenal, are already planning for next season.

And amid fears about homegrown players, reports say they are lining up a deal to sign Wilshere from Arsenal.

The 23-year-old has been dogged by injury problems in the last few years but has no shortage of admirers, with Liverpool also linked.

Wilshere is thought to be worth about £25million.
Ive been dreaming of this day for years :cloud9:

Nice knowing you "judas" :wave:

[Power n Glory]

Sturridge has much better technique than Theo. Not even close.

Welbeck is more the opposite of Sturridge.

I'm not comparing their ability. Very different players but all three fancy themselves as strikers. That's what I'm comparing.

[Power n Glory]

Ive been dreaming of this day for years :cloud9:

Nice knowing you "judas" :wave:

He's not leaving for City.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If Welbeck is worth 16million and he's essentially shit (sorry that's the truth, nice lad I'm sure and he tries hard) than how come Wilshere is only worth 25 even though he's made from fibreglass.

Are we getting ripped off?.

[Özim]

Ive been dreaming of this day for years :cloud9:

Nice knowing you "judas" :wave:

25 million? Take the money and run, they'll get about 15 games out of this average joe, perfect example of getting too much too early.

Given the chance he'd go like a flash, good opportunity for him to get more cash so he can smoke a few more ciggies.

[BOBN]

If Welbeck is worth 16million and he's essentially shit (sorry that's the truth, nice lad I'm sure and he tries hard) than how come Wilshere is only worth 25 even though he's made from fibreglass.

Are we getting ripped off?.
Wilshere is worth about 12 million pounds and that including the English hype tax. Anything over that is a bonus.

[Niall_Quinn]

Media bullshit. In between stuffing their snouts with freebie lunches and hacking out their link bait match reports that bear no resemblance to events they still have 11 hours left from their 12 hour week to pull steaming copy out of their arseholes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here's another piece of exquisite journalism from the same source:
http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/09/alexis-sanchez-dumped-by-girlfriend-valentina-roth-for-letting-his-mates-film-them-having-sex-5094728/

They long since gave up reporting the news and now they revel in being two rungs down from the paparazzi and on level pegging with child molesters.

[Power n Glory]

If Welbeck is worth 16million and he's essentially shit (sorry that's the truth, nice lad I'm sure and he tries hard) than how come Wilshere is only worth 25 even though he's made from fibreglass.

Are we getting ripped off?.

Debatable. Different players but both had a lot of hype behind them and showed glimpses of quality but haven't really developed into what was originally expected. What's worse, Jack is more injury prone. It's a good price.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Here's another piece of exquisite journalism from the same source:
http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/09/alexis-sanchez-dumped-by-girlfriend-valentina-roth-for-letting-his-mates-film-them-having-sex-5094728/

They long since gave up reporting the news and now they revel in being two rungs down from the paparazzi and on level pegging with child molesters.

Firstly women with abs are about as alluring to me as women who are taller than me (6ft 3)

As far as I'm concerned if a woman is taller than me she/he/it wasn't born a woman

"He is immature and average"

Average? How many players could have scored the goal he did against Man City

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ive been dreaming of this day for years :cloud9:

Nice knowing you "judas" :wave:

You have some strange dreams mate.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Kompany has been poor for a long while now.

And he's been genuinely atrocious this season. Even the moronic pundits who stick to their uninformed, pre-ordained scripts for seasons on end have had to rip them up and admit he's been a liability such has been his awfulness.

It's just like Hart. He had one good season in the Premier League and that was enough to propel him to virtually the best in the world status in their eyes. Since then, they've been extremely dodgy but are still apparently 'world class'.

He has been way below his own high standards this season I'll give you that..... but had been quite as bad as atrocious all season I'd doubt they'd be comfortably second. Demichellis has steadied his performances but he's not Franco Baresi or quite so exceptional that he could render Kompany's poor performances an irrelevance.

I don't think Hart is the best keeper in the world but he has previously been in the top 5 keepers before and I'd have signed Hart and Kompany years ago given the chance, even if there are a number of keepers better than Hart currently.

[Dein-machine]

Schneiderlin, Dybala & Varane please - then we have a team. Could get these 3 for the price of Pogba.
Oh, maybe a keeper aswell.

[Dein-machine]

I see we're supposed to be talking to Khedira's agent AGAIN :yawn: - did we ever talk to him in the 1st place.
Also, we are interested in the world renown Hakan Calhanoglu, apparently he is a good free-kick taker - wonderful, but we dont play by NFL rules.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3003294/Theo-Walcott-wants-significant-increase-current-90-000-week-deal-Gunners-winger-sign-new-deal.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11484231/Arsenal-transfer-news-Liverpool-target-Theo-Walcott-as-Raheem-Sterling-contract-talks-continue-to-stall.html

Sell him! He's shit!

[Marc Overmars]

Off you pop. :wave:

Though I could see him fitting in well at Liverpool. :sick:

[Özim]

Oh well, he's not worth the kind of money being discussed. Made a good living out of football to be fair to him without ever really delivering anything spectacular, never done anything to live up to the hype and wouldn't be a player we should worry about facing in future.

Would hope we'd replace with someone of superior ability.

[Letters]

He hasn't done much to warrant another pay rise. Good player but IMO Ox is as good if not better, if he's going to play silly buggers then he can sod off.

[Power n Glory]

I can't defend this shit if true. There is no way he'll get a significant pay rise after sitting out for so long with an injury. He has to have some of the dumbest advisors of they think otherwise. He's not in a strong position to negotiate.

It's probably best for both parties of we let him go. There isn't anything more Wenger can teach him.

[Maestro]

He hasn't done much to warrant another pay rise. Good player but IMO Ox is as good if not better, if he's going to play silly buggers then he can sod off.

Totally agreed

Let's get the max we can, hopefully £20mil add a bit to that and go shopping for another quality addition to the team. Ox and Gnarbbers will fill the role more than adequately

[Xhaka Can’t]

He isn't worth the angst of another prolonged contract negotiation

Get rid.

[fakeyank]

Piss off :wave:

[Letters]

Piss off :wave:

Harsh on Gary :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

How does the Daily Mail know any of this? We know it won't have been leaked by the club and how does Walcott benefit by making this public? This is the scummy media creating a story around the one fact we do know, Walcott's contract is coming to an end. It's a safe bet he wants a pay rise to sign another contract, who couldn't have guessed that? Or at least his agent wants it. The actual amount is revealed as being "north of" what he already earns. That's pretty vague and again pretty obvious, doubt he'd want a figure "south of" the current one. Typical crap from a crap media rag.

[fakeyank]

Harsh on Gary :sulk:

I wouldnt ever tell him to piss off.. he is my golden ticket! I mean.. my source of Arsenal game tickets! ;)

[Power n Glory]

How does the Daily Mail know any of this? We know it won't have been leaked by the club and how does Walcott benefit by making this public? This is the scummy media creating a story around the one fact we do know, Walcott's contract is coming to an end. It's a safe bet he wants a pay rise to sign another contract, who couldn't have guessed that? Or at least his agent wants it. The actual amount is revealed as being "north of" what he already earns. That's pretty vague and again pretty obvious, doubt he'd want a figure "south of" the current one. Typical crap from a crap media rag.

Blame Keown for blowing the lid. I'd usually agree with you on this sort of thing, but considering the position he's in at the club, he can't really make a fuss about the contract unless he's prepared to leave.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Lemme guess.

Walcott is a boyhood Liverpool fan?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

How does the Daily Mail know any of this? We know it won't have been leaked by the club and how does Walcott benefit by making this public? This is the scummy media creating a story around the one fact we do know, Walcott's contract is coming to an end. It's a safe bet he wants a pay rise to sign another contract, who couldn't have guessed that? Or at least his agent wants it. The actual amount is revealed as being "north of" what he already earns. That's pretty vague and again pretty obvious, doubt he'd want a figure "south of" the current one. Typical crap from a crap media rag.
Yup.

[Injury Time]

Harsh on Gary :sulk:


He can piss off.. he is my golden shower! I mean.. oh my he can shove his Arsenal game tickets! :fingers:

:whistle:



Hope that works ;)

[LDG]

Still a little boy who pretends he's a footballer

We haven't really missed him have we.

If Liverpool want him, and that's the extent of their ambition, then go right ahead Rogers, you lipstick wearing quilted jacketed twatbag.

[adzzzbatch]

Still a little boy who pretends he's a footballer

We haven't really missed him have we.

If Liverpool want him, and that's the extent of their ambition, then go right ahead Rogers, you lipstick wearing quilted jacketed twatbag.

Drunk LDG :bow:

But seriously :gp: Fuck him.

[Power n Glory]

How does the Daily Mail know any of this? We know it won't have been leaked by the club and how does Walcott benefit by making this public? This is the scummy media creating a story around the one fact we do know, Walcott's contract is coming to an end. It's a safe bet he wants a pay rise to sign another contract, who couldn't have guessed that? Or at least his agent wants it. The actual amount is revealed as being "north of" what he already earns. That's pretty vague and again pretty obvious, doubt he'd want a figure "south of" the current one. Typical crap from a crap media rag.

Just reading Arseblog and he's done a mini summary on the quotes and stories. The funny thing is, it's Wenger making it known that the process will be difficult which reminds me of the RVP situation where he came out to say he's not sure about offering huge wages to a player passing his prime.

Check it out.


Nov 2014 – Arsene Wenger says we’re starting to talk to him about a new contract. “We are starting to sit down with him,” he says, but warns, “It is never easy with him.”

March 2015 – The manager sounds sarcastic and not altogether pleased when asked about it, saying, “The first contacts have been established with the embassy. We will see how that progresses politically. He is very quick on the pitch but off the pitch, not always.”

Thursday night (March 19th) – A number of newspapers all run the same story mooting a Walcott move to Liverpool as the mugsmashers grow worried about Raheem Sterling’s future/contract situation. It’s almost as if those papers have been briefed by the same source. Who might that have been?!

Friday March 20th – The London Evening Standard runs a story to say that contract talks are ‘on hold’ until the end of the season with both parties ‘happy’ and ‘relaxed’ by that.

Are those not shots from Wenger? We're not going to keep him from the sounds of things. I think it's unwise for his camp to try and play tough with negotiations if true, but I don't know why Wenger has taken this public. I wouldn't be surprised if someone from the club is leaking stories about Liverpool to edge him closer to the door.

[Injury Time]

Just reading Arseblog and he's done a mini summary on the quotes and stories. The funny thing is, it's Wenger making it known that the process will be difficult which reminds me of the RVP situation where he came out to say he's not sure about offering huge wages to a player passing his prime.

Check it out.



Are those not shots from Wenger? We're not going to keep him from the sounds of things. I think it's unwise for his camp to try and play tough with negotiations if true, but I don't know why Wenger has taken this public. I wouldn't be surprised if someone from the club is leaking stories about Liverpool to edge him closer to the door.

Hmm....are you expecting "The Song" manoeuvre next, followed by keeping Pod as the impact striker....

[Newguy]

I think Theo is definitely off, not getting any minutes, rumours of jack being offloaded also (don't see it happening myself) but ultimately Wenger has f'd up this generation of players we have. I remember when these guys were gonna be the saviour of the national team as well as bringing the club to the summit....Gibbs can't get in the team, wilshere just isn't disciplined (I look at the manager) Walcotts potential not realised, this kids strengths have never been utilised fully and if he is sold to Liverpool it will be a sad day as the expectation was so high and Wenger was suppose to be the perfect manager for him.

[Power n Glory]

May sound crazy to some on here, but I seriously question Wenger’s youth development ability. He’s good with players in their early mid 20s that need to polish their game but when it comes to younger players, the ones that arrive at 16 or come from our academy, we’re still waiting for him to produce the goods. Cesc is the only one and I question that one slightly because Cesc grew at Barca playing with Messi. From what I take from Cesc’s interviews, he’s thankful for the opportunity and faith Wenger had shown in him. Constantly getting games and being called up for the first team even after a bad game. That’s great but I rarely hear players talk about how he’s developed them technically.

Theo is one example. His coaching philosophy of letting the players learn how to naturally adapt to situations without barking instructions just doesn’t sit well with me. I think it’s why players like Theo, Jack and even Ramsey get themselves into extended ruts with their form and repeat the same mistakes over and over without correction. It’s like waiting for the penny to drop for the player and they have that eureka or enlightenment moment where it suddenly clicks for them. It’s all good showing faith in a player but you still have to guide them technically and tactically otherwise they develop bad habits. Walcott’s development has lead him down a fruitless path. No club will want to buy a wide striker. That’s like a custom built specialist position for our team that we no longer need. He’s not tried and tested as striker and hasn’t been developed as a winger. He’s in limbo and it’s best he moves on whilst still young enough to see if something can be salvaged. Fans get on his case here at Arsenal saying he hasn’t developed but whose fault is that? He’s been training under Wenger since he was 16 and doesn’t look or sound like he slacks in his training. He’s not the only that hasn’t developed and probably won’t be the last with Wenger in charge. It’s too young of an age group for Wenger to work with.

[selassie]

I think Theo is definitely off, not getting any minutes, rumours of jack being offloaded also (don't see it happening myself) but ultimately Wenger has f'd up this generation of players we have. I remember when these guys were gonna be the saviour of the national team as well as bringing the club to the summit....Gibbs can't get in the team, wilshere just isn't disciplined (I look at the manager) Walcotts potential not realised, this kids strengths have never been utilised fully and if he is sold to Liverpool it will be a sad day as the expectation was so high and Wenger was suppose to be the perfect manager for him.

Yeah I think Theo is off too, Wenger has been very vocal about these contract negotiations and not in a positive way.

I personally think he will do very well at Liverpool if he goes there, he a "Liverpool" kind of player.

[Globalgunner]

Theo can do one.
was watching the Bundesliga yesterday, saw Bayern beaten at home first time this season. Christoph Kramer.......must get. play him alongside or in rotation with Coq.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Wenger has been so adamant to introduce attacking players who can defend as part of the evolution of his philosophy but also because of how we've defended this season (particularly poorly at times).

Once the team naturally settles towards a defence-attack balance he will be slightly less insistent on attacking players defending and perhaps people will give Theo less stick for his lack of a polished defensive game which is the main reason (seemingly) he isn't in the side. I can't really believe that if he plays wide right he isn't going to rack up a fair numbers of goals or assists and probably justify his place. Of course if he isn't playing regularly he isn't quite as sharp and perhaps doesn't get the numbers and various people can keep the convenient cycle or circumstantial evidence as to why he shouldn't be in the team going.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger has been so adamant to introduce attacking players who can defend as part of the evolution of his philosophy but also because of how we've defended this season (particularly poorly at times).

Once the team naturally settles towards a defence-attack balance he will be slightly less insistent on attacking players defending and perhaps people will give Theo less stick for his lack of a polished defensive game which is the main reason (seemingly) he isn't in the side. I can't really believe that if he plays wide right he isn't going to rack up a fair numbers of goals or assists and probably justify his place. Of course if he isn't playing regularly he isn't quite as sharp and perhaps doesn't get the numbers and various people can keep the convenient cycle or circumstantial evidence as to why he shouldn't be in the team going.

Theo should be starting games over Welbeck. I can’t see Danny developing into a better player than Theo when playing out wide.

[fakeyank]

Theo should be starting games over Welbeck. I can’t see Danny developing into a better player than Theo when playing out wide.

I think both of them are pretty crap at the moment but I'd agree with you that between both of them, Theo is the lesser shit!

[GP]

Wenger has been so adamant to introduce attacking players who can defend as part of the evolution of his philosophy but also because of how we've defended this season (particularly poorly at times).

Once the team naturally settles towards a defence-attack balance he will be slightly less insistent on attacking players defending and perhaps people will give Theo less stick for his lack of a polished defensive game which is the main reason (seemingly) he isn't in the side. I can't really believe that if he plays wide right he isn't going to rack up a fair numbers of goals or assists and probably justify his place. Of course if he isn't playing regularly he isn't quite as sharp and perhaps doesn't get the numbers and various people can keep the convenient cycle or circumstantial evidence as to why he shouldn't be in the team going.

I'm sure he's playing more defensive minded players while Debuchy is out. Would you want Theo starting in front of Bellerin? It's too much of a risk at the moment.

[Globalgunner]

I think both of them are pretty crap at the moment but I'd agree with you that between both of them, Theo is the lesser shit!

Disagree. Both players have pace, starting acceleration and have designs on being strikers. Welbeck can dribble, change direction and hold off defenders due to his superior physique. where he lets himself down is his shooting, getting the ball on target. If he could do that he would be better than any of our so called strikers.
Walcott on the other hand has acceleration and has developed into a good finisher. He wasnt so great to begin with and his first touch has also improved. What i cannot understand for the life of me is why he has no guile. he cannot move laterally with the ball at his feet but only move in the direction straight to goal. Hios pace is his greatest asset but how long before age and injuries rob him of that.
Put it another way. If Oxlade-C could learn how to finish, he would be twice the player Walcott is. I would dispense of Walcott purely because:
1, Ox will replace him and Gnabry too soon.
2, Welbeck is younger and can improve if he can focus on his composure
3, Walcott wants a starting place which we cant give him and his salary demands are higher than his value.
I would argue also that Bellerin can get to where Walcott is is a few years IF we can get a RB that can last 4 games w/o breaking down to play behind him....that kid is FAST

[Power n Glory]

Disagree. Both players have pace, starting acceleration and have designs on being strikers. Welbeck can dribble, change direction and hold off defenders due to his superior physique. where he lets himself down is his shooting, getting the ball on target. If he could do that he would be better than any of our so called strikers.
Walcott on the other hand has acceleration and has developed into a good finisher. He wasnt so great to begin with and his first touch has also improved. What i cannot understand for the life of me is why he has no guile. he cannot move laterally with the ball at his feet but only move in the direction straight to goal. Hios pace is his greatest asset but how long before age and injuries rob him of that.
Put it another way. If Oxlade-C could learn how to finish, he would be twice the player Walcott is. I would dispense of Walcott purely because:
1, Ox will replace him and Gnabry too soon.
2, Welbeck is younger and can improve if he can focus on his composure
3, Walcott wants a starting place which we cant give him and his salary demands are higher than his value.
I would argue also that Bellerin can get to where Walcott is is a few years IF we can get a RB that can last 4 games w/o breaking down to play behind him....that kid is FAST

You're underestimating Theo's off the ball movement. Bellerin, Welbeck, Gnarby....they won't rack up the number of goals Theo gets if they can't make the same sort of runs.

You ever wondered why a player that hasn't got the best dribbling ability somehow manages to keep getting into great scoring opportunities but other players with superior ball control rarely get a sniff on goal?

[Globalgunner]

You're underestimating Theo's off the ball movement. Bellerin, Welbeck, Gnarby....they won't rack up the number of goals Theo gets if they can't make the same sort of runs.

You ever wondered why a player that hasn't got the best dribbling ability somehow manages to keep getting into great scoring opportunities but other players with superior ball control rarely get a sniff on goal?

Theo will only get those numbers if he can remain healthy. Based on what we've seen in the last few years I doubt it. basically what I`m saying is not that Theo is not useful to the squad , he is, but not 130-150k useful. He wants to play, so let someone else pay

[Power n Glory]

But he is fit and the contract talks is another issue. We're talking about why he shouldn't be starting over Welbeck and in my opinion he should be starting now.

[fakeyank]

Welbeck and Walcott's finishing are both crap. Their chance-to-scoring ratio is horrible. I do think Walcott makes the better striker because he makes very good runs... unfortunately he cant do much once he has the ball. He can only run straight or laterally but his dribbling skills are as good as a dead man. Welbeck has skills on the ball but his finishing is horrible as well.

Ox and Gnabry are miles above both of them. I'd put Gnabry on for a few of the 'dead' games to see if he is still coming along as good as he did last season.

[Özim]

Walcott's had a fair crack of the whip now and he's not really delivered, he's not worth the money being talked about as he's not a special player, we've got players in our squad more than able to take his place and I'd rather we spent those wages on someone more talented than him.

If after 10 odd years he's not managed to become a regular then the writing is on the wall for him IMO.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I want him to stay but I'm not going to be shedding tears if he leaves either.

Wenger's alluded to it already and there was enough chatter in the Arsenal sphere regarding it the last time Theo's contract was up for renewal but Theo and his are team are very much motivated by money, more so than most other players. I think they're looking for an improvement to his current reported 100K a week which given how little he's been able to contribute since then and his decrease in importance (through no fault of his own tbf) is a bit ridiculous tbh. And if he actually viewed it objectively and realistically, without the bias of money, then I'm sure he himself would agree. In fact, 100K can be easily argued to be too much considering his current importance in the team now.

He's lost his place in his team because of his injury which caused Wenger and the club to rightfully develop other solutions such as Alexis, Ox and Welbeck. Now that he's recovered he can't just expect to just waltz back in ....... that would be unfair on the likes of Welbeck, Ox and Alexis who've risen up to the plate magnificently during his absence. It's up to him to develop his all round game (especially his well noted weakness areas), fight for his place and grab any opportunities that come his way. If he's not prepared to do that, then he can fuck of to Liverpool or Man City as far as I'm concerned.

At the end of the day, I want to see Arsenal succeed first and foremost, not Theo Walcott and his career.

[Heisenberg]

Walcott's injury last season came at pretty much the worst possible time. He had established himself as a starter and, more importantly, one of our main sources of goals. Then the injury kept him out for a long time, now it's no longer clear that he's part of our best 11. I would like to see him stay because he offers something different but I don't blame the club if they don't want to give him another pay rise, since he's mainly been crocked since the last one.

[milla]

Ox and Gnabry are miles above both of them. I'd put Gnabry on for a few of the 'dead' games to see if he is still coming along as good as he did last season.

:gp:

Rate Gnabry higher than Ox. Germany youth team is short of striker and they use Gnabry as their CF. He is in the same mold Suarez and Alexis, very interesting prospect. :coffee:

[Marc Overmars]

Is Gnabry still dead these days? Can't remember the last time he was involved at all.

[mr_brighterside]

new rules state homegrown player must have been with club since 15, it'll mean wenger will have to replace most of his transfer targets :coffee:

[Heisenberg]

According to the club's website, Gnabry's last first team appearance was in the Bayern Munich game last season.

[fakeyank]

Hearing that Sterling is stalling on a contract. I'd do a straight swap with Theo tbf... 100% a better player!

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

Rate Gnabry higher than Ox. Germany youth team is short of striker and they use Gnabry as their CF. He is in the same mold Suarez and Alexis, very interesting prospect. :coffee:

He seems tidy but isn't it a but early for those sort of comparisons? He's only been playing at youth level so there is still a way to go. A long way.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'm sure he's playing more defensive minded players while Debuchy is out. Would you want Theo starting in front of Bellerin? It's too much of a risk at the moment.
Wenger has been reluctant to put Theo on even as a late sub at times so I think whilst that may be a factor it is probably not the main reason. In fairness to Bellerin he has done a lot to on the positioning and tracking back side too....if Wenger is worried about him pairing with Theo, he should at least see if it can work and instruct them to be mindful of each other.

:gp:

Rate Gnabry higher than Ox. Germany youth team is short of striker and they use Gnabry as their CF. He is in the same mold Suarez and Alexis, very interesting prospect. :coffee:

I've intermittently brought Gnabry up through the season but I have no idea why he is still nowhere to be seen.

As I have often said....considering Giroud's form, our wide options and Welbeck's own aversion to playing wide, he has been very fortunate to play as many games as he has.....and yet so many believe Theo's minuscule involvement since he came back is totally justified.

[Bumble]

Why not try a Sterling/Walcott swap. Sterling is from London area. Both have contract issues and we can throw £20m in as well.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Speaking of Theo, have a listen to the latest Tuesday Club podcast. Alan Davies pretty much nails it regarding him and also gives a very funny and interesting anecdote from the last time Theo's contract was up and he was talking to Wenger about it. :lol::lol:


Wenger has been reluctant to put Theo on even as a late sub at times so I think whilst that may be a factor it is probably not the main reason. In fairness to Bellerin he has done a lot to on the positioning and tracking back side too....if Wenger is worried about him pairing with Theo, he should at least see if it can work and instruct them to be mindful of each other.


Can you really blame him though? Theo's not exactly the guy to bring on when you're 2 - 1 up and hanging on (which has happened in a lot of our games recently). He's not renowned for his industry and defensive hard work and that could have cost us; Rosicky or Ramsey anytime tbh.

Like I said in my previous post, it's up to him to develop his all round game to make him a more viable option to be picked regardless of the situation.



I've intermittently brought Gnabry up through the season but I have no idea why he is still nowhere to be seen.

As I have often said....considering Giroud's form, our wide options and Welbeck's own aversion to playing wide, he has been very fortunate to play as many games as he has.....and yet so many believe Theo's minuscule involvement since he came back is totally justified.

Think he's just still fully coming around from the injury. Luckily because of Ox's and Alexis' form this season, we've not really needed him much.

Also completely disagree with Milla's post about Gnarby being better than Ox. Alexis aside, Ox is probably the best of our wide attacking players. Just needs to sort out his composure in front of goal (ala Ramsey pre breakout) and he'll become one of the best players in the league. He's that good.


Why not try a Sterling/Walcott swap. Sterling is from London area. Both have contract issues and we can throw £20m in as well.

We should definitely consider the possibility. Assuming we get CL football and they don't, we're going to be a very attractive destination for him though reading up his supposed stalled contract talks with Liverpool, I get the feeling like Theo and his reps, he's very greedy for money. Guardian were reporting that he wants 150 K ...... not sure whether we could justify that given we've already got Ozil and Alexis near to or less to that.

[Power n Glory]

I just finished listening to that. About 10 minutes ago. Supposed to be a training ground bust up with Wenger as well. Theo is gone and as said, if he's asking for more money, it's a poor time to do so.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The point is mainly that imo Theo should have been starting more games, never mind being the option to bring on with 10 minutes to go. People can slate him if they wish for his erratic finishing recently but his stats were pretty impressive before he got injured. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be again. The players around him have improved as has Giroud.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Not sure how exactly Winterburn would be privy to that (may have spoken to another player) but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Ala Gerrard on Sunday, Theo's probably frustrated with sitting on the bench but getting into a row isn't the solution. He should know that Wenger has on the whole been very fair and reasonable with him up to this point.

One of Theo's strengths is that he seems fairly intelligent, astute and pleasant so I'd like to think it was a one-off incident.

Regarding his wage demands, if Liverpool are baulking at paying their golden boy Sterling his wage demands, he must realise there's no way he'll even get the 100 K he's already getting here, there. Man City are probably the only realistic option but he'll just be stuck on the bench (like he is atm here) and probably go the way of a Scott Sinclair or <insert promising English talent they've ruined>.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The latest podcast has taken ages to arrive..... cheers for the heads up!

[Power n Glory]

Not sure how exactly Winterburn would be privy to that (may have spoken to another player) but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

Ala Gerrard on Sunday, Theo's probably frustrated with sitting on the bench but getting into a row isn't the solution. He should know that Wenger has on the whole been very fair and reasonable with him up to this point.

One of Theo's strengths is that he seems fairly intelligent, astute and pleasant so I'd like to think it was a one-off incident.

Regarding his wage demands, if Liverpool are baulking at paying their golden boy Sterling his wage demands, he must realise there's no way he'll even get the 100 K he's already getting here, there. Man City are probably the only realistic option but he'll just be stuck on the bench (like he is atm here) and probably go the way of a Scott Sinclair or <insert promising English talent they've ruined>.

Agree with some of that but not all. I don't think Wenger has been fair and reasonable in this situation. Whenever there is a contract dispute, he'll bench a player. He did the same to Theo before, he did it with Cashley, with Wiltord, Edu.....

Luckily, we haven't been desperate for Theo to play, but I can't see how Welbeck is starting ahead of him. It's senseless because Welbeck left Utd feeling disgruntled about being played out of position instead of up front. Not sure how patient Welbeck will be or even if his goal contribution will come close to Theo's. He's like a Gervinho without the dribbling skills.

It's funny because we had this same problem with Wiltord years ago where he wanted to play as striker and then left on a free.

[mr_brighterside]

talk that we'll sell per and buy smalling in the telegraph

[Injury Time]

talk that we'll sell per and buy smalling in the telegraph

I'd prefer a telegraph pole myself

[Globalgunner]

Sell Per. He`s close to pointless anyway. Let Chambers take his position.

[Maestro]

Not sure we'll get anything for Per

[Marc Overmars]

Not sure we'll get anything for Per

2 pints of Bitburger and some currywurst tbf.

[LDG]

2 pints of Bitburger and some currywurst tbf.

I'll take it.

[Letters]

German sausages :bow:

[GP]

I do enjoy a good sausagefest.

[AFC Leveller]

Per's lack of pace and urgency on the ball has become a bigger issues than his lack of pace off it.

Gabriel reminds of Pepe, very aggressive and first into tackles, hope he develops into a WC CB.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Agree with some of that but not all. I don't think Wenger has been fair and reasonable in this situation. Whenever there is a contract dispute, he'll bench a player. He did the same to Theo before, he did it with Cashley, with Wiltord, Edu.....

Luckily, we haven't been desperate for Theo to play, but I can't see how Welbeck is starting ahead of him. It's senseless because Welbeck left Utd feeling disgruntled about being played out of position instead of up front. Not sure how patient Welbeck will be or even if his goal contribution will come close to Theo's. He's like a Gervinho without the dribbling skills.

It's funny because we had this same problem with Wiltord years ago where he wanted to play as striker and then left on a free.
I think that has been wilfully ignored for the sake of people buying into their own arguments about Theo being inadequate in a number of ways. Let's be honest, in all likelihood the contract talks have played a major part in why Theo hasn't played more and as you just mentioned Wenger has previous on this. The longer it continues the more patently obvious it is that the contract talks are a factor. Why anybody would behave as if it is irrelevant by now is strange....

Now we have a few decent players, people are yelling, SELL HIM. As Emirates gooner says, a fanciful swap with Sterling poses the same problem as Sterling himself wants BIG wages and he has proven no more at the top level than Walcott has.

The Saga has been drawn out this long and it was the last time because Arsenal know getting a Walcott replacement is neither easy nor cheap and Theo knows finding another club who will pay him handsomely and represent a decent chance at the 1st team won't be easy either. Liverpool is no quick fix to the situation, the saga will continue and there will be those who will have us believe that Theo continues not to be played because Wenger has suddenly woke up to the fact that Theo isn't very good.

Chamberlain and Gnabry still have to prove their consistent quality as well as their fitness. Those basing arguments around Theo's injury record should be reminded of the fact that Chamberlain and Gnabry haven't exactly had injury free Arsenal careers either.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I used to think Smalling was decent but I went off him a long time ago. I think Gabriel will take Per's place but I'd rather see us bring someone in before we let him go....and preferably not Smalling.

[GP]

Smalling is shizite.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is the first season in an age where we're enjoying competition for places and general coverage in most positions. This is only possible because we have dug the chequebook out and brought in quality. Plus Wenger lucked into a couple of players. So we don't start selling now, unless it's to shovel shit out the door. Walcott is not in that category. Unless his theivesagents are asking for a ludicrous amount and provided the guy wants to stay and isn't trying to engineer a move we should be keeping players like this in the hope that one day Wenger will learn about squad rotation.

People say Walcott wouldn't get a start elsewhere, except at Liverpool. Bullshit. He'd walk into the Utd or gypos teams. Ashley Young and Jesus Navas? Give me a break, Walcott pisses over those two. Maybe the chavs would be the exception but anywhere else he'd be a starter. I don't think his negotiating position is at all weak. We want him here playing for us rather than elsewhere playing against us. Sadly, unfortunately, disgracefully, £100K pw is not top money in the PL these days. Pretty much every gypo is on that I would suspect. It's the natural consequence of the era of the dopers.

We've got to start keeping players long term now. Do we want a club where the whole team rotates out every 2-3 years? Pay him, it's his last big contract and his last chance to deliver. He can be sold 2 years in if it doesn't work out but he has a lot to prove and the best years of his career should be coming up if the kid has anything about him at all.

[Power n Glory]

This is the first season in an age where we're enjoying competition for places and general coverage in most positions. This is only possible because we have dug the chequebook out and brought in quality. Plus Wenger lucked into a couple of players. So we don't start selling now, unless it's to shovel shit out the door. Walcott is not in that category. Unless his theivesagents are asking for a ludicrous amount and provided the guy wants to stay and isn't trying to engineer a move we should be keeping players like this in the hope that one day Wenger will learn about squad rotation.

People say Walcott wouldn't get a start elsewhere, except at Liverpool. Bullshit. He'd walk into the Utd or gypos teams. Ashley Young and Jesus Navas? Give me a break, Walcott pisses over those two. Maybe the chavs would be the exception but anywhere else he'd be a starter. I don't think his negotiating position is at all weak. We want him here playing for us rather than elsewhere playing against us. Sadly, unfortunately, disgracefully, £100K pw is not top money in the PL these days. Pretty much every gypo is on that I would suspect. It's the natural consequence of the era of the dopers.

We've got to start keeping players long term now. Do we want a club where the whole team rotates out every 2-3 years? Pay him, it's his last big contract and his last chance to deliver. He can be sold 2 years in if it doesn't work out but he has a lot to prove and the best years of his career should be coming up if the kid has anything about him at all.

Walcott’s in a weak bargaining position with us because he’s dealing with a manager that’s trying to flex muscle on him. I’m not saying he’s in a weak overall position as if he has no other choice but to sign. Clubs will come in for him and you’re right about the two Manchester clubs. But I don’t think Wenger will back down from this one. We’re winning games, he has Sanchez, Ox, Welbeck, Ozil that can play on the wing so I don’t see him backing down because it’s not like the last contract talk situation.

During the last contract dispute, he benched Theo, tried to talk up Gnarby and played him in the first team only to end up with egg on his face. Gnarby was far from ready and it was clear that we missed Theo. It didn’t make it any easier that Theo was scoring in cup games as well. Wenger reluctantly came back to the negotiation table. If Gnarby was ready and Theo was playing badly, I doubt we’d have come to an agreement.

I like Theo. I rate his contribution even though I think we could get way more out of him on the left or up front. But I honestly think he should move on. Arsenal fans don’t believe in him and his own coach has once again tried to shift him out of the team and show that he’s not needed. In fact, I think Wenger has been a little disrespectful with his comments. He should move whilst young enough to still develop.

[selassie]

Walcott’s in a weak bargaining position with us because he’s dealing with a manager that’s trying to flex muscle on him. I’m not saying he’s in a weak overall position as if he has no other choice but to sign. Clubs will come in for him and you’re right about the two Manchester clubs. But I don’t think Wenger will back down from this one. We’re winning games, he has Sanchez, Ox, Welbeck, Ozil that can play on the wing so I don’t see him backing down because it’s not like the last contract talk situation.

During the last contract dispute, he benched Theo, tried to talk up Gnarby and played him in the first team only to end up with egg on his face. Gnarby was far from ready and it was clear that we missed Theo. It didn’t make it any easier that Theo was scoring in cup games as well. Wenger reluctantly came back to the negotiation table. If Gnarby was ready and Theo was playing badly, I doubt we’d have come to an agreement.

I like Theo. I rate his contribution even though I think we could get way more out of him on the left or up front. But I honestly think he should move on. Arsenal fans don’t believe in him and his own coach has once again tried to shift him out of the team and show that he’s not needed. In fact, I think Wenger has been a little disrespectful with his comments. He should move whilst young enough to still develop.

:gp:

I like Theo too but this one seems to have got quite personal between him and Wenger. Wenger has also gone very public on it which is quite strange for him. Theo is definitely gone, I agree with your points regarding Wenger freezing him out of the team and not backing down etc because we now have very credible alternatives who can play on the flanks ahead of Theo.

I reckon Theo will go to one of our top 4 rivals, I wouldn't be surprised if they all went in for him TBH, Chelsea and United don't really need him but I think they would challenge Liverpool and City for his signature.

[Power n Glory]

I think that has been wilfully ignored for the sake of people buying into their own arguments about Theo being inadequate in a number of ways. Let's be honest, in all likelihood the contract talks have played a major part in why Theo hasn't played more and as you just mentioned Wenger has previous on this. The longer it continues the more patently obvious it is that the contract talks are a factor. Why anybody would behave as if it is irrelevant by now is strange....

Now we have a few decent players, people are yelling, SELL HIM. As Emirates gooner says, a fanciful swap with Sterling poses the same problem as Sterling himself wants BIG wages and he has proven no more at the top level than Walcott has.

The Saga has been drawn out this long and it was the last time because Arsenal know getting a Walcott replacement is neither easy nor cheap and Theo knows finding another club who will pay him handsomely and represent a decent chance at the 1st team won't be easy either. Liverpool is no quick fix to the situation, the saga will continue and there will be those who will have us believe that Theo continues not to be played because Wenger has suddenly woke up to the fact that Theo isn't very good.

Chamberlain and Gnabry still have to prove their consistent quality as well as their fitness. Those basing arguments around Theo's injury record should be reminded of the fact that Chamberlain and Gnabry haven't exactly had injury free Arsenal careers either.

This happens all the time on here. The knives were out for Theo when he had his last round of contract talks. If you'd have joined GW earlier you'd see how often we have this conversation. If It's not Ox, Gnarby or Welbeck touted as the better option, it's Lennon, Young and God knows who else. This happens often and regardless of the stats or his contribution, he won't be appreciated as a winger here because the way Wenger has him playing is so unorthodox. But his last fully fit season he scored 21 goals with 14 assists. 14 goals and 10 assists in the Prem. You'd think that would count for something.

I think it's time he moves on so he can at least try to develop more of his game. He came to Arsenal to emulate Henry and that's gone out the window. Wenger seems content to pigeonhole him into this unique wide forward role, so now he has this tag as a 'specialist' player that can only be used under certain circumstances. That's not good for his career and it means his manager has failed to develop him into a more well rounded player. He's no slouch and I'm sure he'd defend if that was a part of the coaching.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

I like Theo too but this one seems to have got quite personal between him and Wenger. Wenger has also gone very public on it which is quite strange for him. Theo is definitely gone, I agree with your points regarding Wenger freezing him out of the team and not backing down etc because we now have very credible alternatives who can play on the flanks ahead of Theo.

I reckon Theo will go to one of our top 4 rivals, I wouldn't be surprised if they all went in for him TBH, Chelsea and United don't really need him but I think they would challenge Liverpool and City for his signature.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32067058

The most recent development.

Wenger never usually speaks so negatively about contract negotiations but it reminds me of RVP’s situation where he told everyone that it doesn’t always make sense to offer a huge contract to player passing his peak years. Theo’s out of here.

[fakeyank]

Khedira will be available on a free this summer. Time to get that man a deal here!

[selassie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32067058

The most recent development.

Wenger never usually speaks so negatively about contract negotiations but it reminds me of RVP’s situation where he told everyone that it doesn’t always make sense to offer a huge contract to player passing his peak years. Theo’s out of here.

Shame because Theo offers this team a lot, admittedly Sanchez has effectively replaced his goal and assist contribution but Theo is still hugely important to us and we will miss him when he's gone.

[Niall_Quinn]

"Reports about contract demands and bust-ups with the boss are complete nonsense," said 26-year-old Walcott.
"There have been no contract talks as yet and my current focus is on doing my best for Arsenal."

Would rather believe Walcott than the media. This has smelled of a media prompted and provoked shit stir from the outset. Walcott stayed last time around and hit a patch of form before that was halted due to injury. Between then and now he hasn't said or done anything that suggests he's at loggerheads with the club. If that changes then it's a different story but right now all we have is one pointed comment from Wenger and a whole lot of speculation from fat cunts like Martin Samuel.

[Niall_Quinn]

Khedira will be available on a free this summer. Time to get that man a deal here!

Khedira in for Diaby, no zero hour contracts for our medical staff.

[Power n Glory]

Would rather believe Walcott than the media. This has smelled of a media prompted and provoked shit stir from the outset. Walcott stayed last time around and hit a patch of form before that was halted due to injury. Between then and now he hasn't said or done anything that suggests he's at loggerheads with the club. If that changes then it's a different story but right now all we have is one pointed comment from Wenger and a whole lot of speculation from fat cunts like Martin Samuel.

It's way too easy to suggest the media are stirring. This stuff is leaking from the Arsenal camp.

The training ground bust up story came from Ian Stone on the Tuesday Club podcast. Ian Stone writes from the club magazine and said he heard this from Nigel Winterburn.

Martin Keown came out and said Theo was taking liberties with his contract talks.

Wenger himself has been dropping gems to media saying Theo's slow when it comes to talks but fast on the pitch. Saying he needs to earn his place in the team. Calling his team of agents the 'Embassy' and also made a joke about Theo wanting more money during the last round of negotiations. That but of gossip also came from the Tuesday Club.

It looks like the Arsenal PR team are running this campaign.

[Master Splinter]

Firstly, who is Gnarby?

Secondly, it was the season before last that Walcott was scoring loads in the Cup competitions. That didn't coincide with Gnabry's promotion to the first team, which was last season. Gnabry actually played really well in most games and he and Theo showed a great understanding of each others' games in the 2-0 win over Spurs. Of course, they both succumbed to injury soon after and have barely played since, which is the same sad story for the majority of our squad or any player who begins to break through to a new level in their game.

It's pretty simple in the end. If Theo's people are genuinely taking the piss, then it's fair enough that the club are annoyed. If they're asking for a reasonable boost to his deal in this current mental landscape, then the club should probably ensure that they secure the services of a proven goalscorer/assister. Even if he is a squad player going forward. Because he'd do big numbers at Man City and Liverpool. And inevitably score against us.

[fakeyank]

The thing with Theo is, he is all pace and I cannot see him being important for us or any team beyond the next 2-3 years. He cannot dribble the ball to save his life and his finishing is atrocious. His off the ball movement is great but his combined footballing skills minus pace does not make him a person we should break the bank to keep. Gnabry and Ox have more skill in their little toe compared to Walcott's entire footballing skill.

If he can stick to 100K (which is a LOT for his skillset), we keep him or else he can piss off.. :coffee:

[Power n Glory]

Do your Googles Splinter. Gnabry's debut wasn't last season. I remember.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/serge-gnabry-emerges-to-weaken-theo-walcotts-bargaining-power-8222686.html

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-gnabry-can-become-a-top-player

Forgive the misspelling of his name. He's hardly played for us but if he makes a name for himself, i won't forget it.

[Master Splinter]

Do your Googles Splinter. Gnabry's debut wasn't last season. I remember.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/serge-gnabry-emerges-to-weaken-theo-walcotts-bargaining-power-8222686.html

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-gnabry-can-become-a-top-player

Forgive the misspelling of his name. He's hardly played for us but if he makes a name for himself, i won't forget it.

That was just club propaganda. He made a few pointless appearances in pointless games. I doubt Wenger was expecting a genuine breakthrough that early.

I thought you were referring to the decent run in the team he had last year.

The club are always doing things like this to potentially avoid any negativity. They're currently running an Ozil headline piece!

In the end, it's all fluff and we'll just have to wait until the summer. Hopefully, it's gets sorted and he stays fit finally. Or we sell and replace his contribution.

[Master Splinter]

The thing with Theo is, he is all pace and I cannot see him being important for us or any team beyond the next 2-3 years. He cannot dribble the ball to save his life and his finishing is atrocious. His off the ball movement is great but his combined footballing skills minus pace does not make him a person we should break the bank to keep. Gnabry and Ox have more skill in their little toe compared to Walcott's entire footballing skill.

If he can stick to 100K (which is a LOT for his skillset), we keep him or else he can piss off.. :coffee:

It's rarely about how much skill you have.

It's about how you apply those skills in a match situation.

Theo uses his best ones (movement, off-the-ball runs, finishing, crossing and PACE) more effectively than most others do on the pitch. He is always going to be a frustrating player, but even when he's missing sitters, he's in the right position to miss them. Oxlade is just as frustrating, despite having more to his game. He makes stupid decisions and doesn't always use his attributes in the correct way. The need to put Theo up against Ox and others like Gnabry (who we shouldn't make any definitive judgements on at this stage of his career anyway) is silly. Why can't we use both and have a competitive squad to cope with four competitions a season and the usual 658 injuries?

Taarabt and Quaresma are more skillful than Walcott. Would you rather have them in the team too?

Falcao and Balotelli are more gifted than Giroud. Would you play them ahead of a player like Bif who improves season-on-season by getting the maximum out of his game by doing the right things in the right areas?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's rarely about how much skill you have.

It's about how you apply those skills in a match situation.

Theo uses his best ones (movement, off-the-ball runs, finishing, crossing and PACE) more effectively than most others do on the pitch. He is always going to be a frustrating player, but even when he's missing sitters, he's in the right position to miss them. Oxlade is just as frustrating, despite having more to his game. He makes stupid decisions and doesn't always use his attributes in the correct way. The need to put Theo up against Ox and others like Gnabry (who we shouldn't make any definitive judgements on at this stage of his career anyway) is silly. Why can't we use both and have a competitive squad to cope with four competitions a season and the usual 658 injuries?

Taarabt and Quaresma are more skillful than Walcott. Would you rather have them in the team too?

Falcao and Balotelli are more gifted than Giroud. Would you play them ahead of a player like Bif who improves season-on-season by getting the maximum out of his game by doing the right things in the right areas?

Hard to argue with any of that....

[Power n Glory]

That was just club propaganda. He made a few pointless appearances in pointless games. I doubt Wenger was expecting a genuine breakthrough that early.

I thought you were referring to the decent run in the team he had last year.

The club are always doing things like this to potentially avoid any negativity. They're currently running an Ozil headline piece!

In the end, it's all fluff and we'll just have to wait until the summer. Hopefully, it's gets sorted and he stays fit finally. Or we sell and replace his contribution.

The Premier League and Champions League are hardly pointless. You think it's a coincidence that he froze out Walcott at this point and introduces an unheard of teen and announces that this kid has the potential to be a top player? That he's similar to Ox and Walcott and may be ready for first team action? There was no reason for Theo not to be starting games and for Wenger to introduce an unknown. He was talking as if Serge was ready that very season.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-gnabry-could-play-for-first-team-this-year-


“Serge Gnabry is a great hope for the future, I rate him highly,” the manager told Arsenal Player. “If he continues his development, I think he could play in the first team this season. At the moment he needs to work and ensure he remains fit.

“He is in the category of Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott - guys who have great power, great pace and good dribbling skills.

“He has goalscoring potential and good vision as well for the final ball. He can play centrally behind the striker or on the flanks.”

[Power n Glory]

It's rarely about how much skill you have.

It's about how you apply those skills in a match situation.

Theo uses his best ones (movement, off-the-ball runs, finishing, crossing and PACE) more effectively than most others do on the pitch. He is always going to be a frustrating player, but even when he's missing sitters, he's in the right position to miss them. Oxlade is just as frustrating, despite having more to his game. He makes stupid decisions and doesn't always use his attributes in the correct way. The need to put Theo up against Ox and others like Gnabry (who we shouldn't make any definitive judgements on at this stage of his career anyway) is silly. Why can't we use both and have a competitive squad to cope with four competitions a season and the usual 658 injuries?

Taarabt and Quaresma are more skillful than Walcott. Would you rather have them in the team too?

Falcao and Balotelli are more gifted than Giroud. Would you play them ahead of a player like Bif who improves season-on-season by getting the maximum out of his game by doing the right things in the right areas?

:gp: That's a good response to that sort of post.

[Master Splinter]

The Premier League and Champions League are hardly pointless. You think it's a coincidence that he froze out Walcott at this point and introduces an unheard of teen and announces that this kid has the potential to be a top player? That he's similar to Ox and Walcott and may be ready for first team action? There was no reason for Theo not to be starting games and for Wenger to introduce an unknown. He was talking as if Serge was ready that very season.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-gnabry-could-play-for-first-team-this-year-

He made a substitute appearance each in the PL, CL and League Cup and one start in the League Cup. So 1 start and 3 sub appearances.

That's less threatening than an Ozil penalty kick.

As I said, it's all fluff. Wenger and the website are hardly worth taking notice of.

[Marc Overmars]

It's rarely about how much skill you have.

It's about how you apply those skills in a match situation.

Theo uses his best ones (movement, off-the-ball runs, finishing, crossing and PACE) more effectively than most others do on the pitch. He is always going to be a frustrating player, but even when he's missing sitters, he's in the right position to miss them. Oxlade is just as frustrating, despite having more to his game. He makes stupid decisions and doesn't always use his attributes in the correct way. The need to put Theo up against Ox and others like Gnabry (who we shouldn't make any definitive judgements on at this stage of his career anyway) is silly. Why can't we use both and have a competitive squad to cope with four competitions a season and the usual 658 injuries?

Taarabt and Quaresma are more skillful than Walcott. Would you rather have them in the team too?

Falcao and Balotelli are more gifted than Giroud. Would you play them ahead of a player like Bif who improves season-on-season by getting the maximum out of his game by doing the right things in the right areas?

This post needs to be framed and shown to anyone who is blaise about Theo's ability and worth to the squad.

[Power n Glory]

He made a substitute appearance each in the PL, CL and League Cup and one start in the League Cup. So 1 start and 3 sub appearances.

That's less threatening than an Ozil penalty kick.

As I said, it's all fluff. Wenger and the website are hardly worth taking notice of.

I'd agree if none of it coincided with Walcott being frozen out of the squad because of his contract talks.

You say it's fluff now, but not so long ago you didn't see the connection and thought Serge made his debut last season.

Wenger said himself that he could have been ready for first team football that season and from what I remember, he wasn't ready and didn't feature again. You don't think that's odd? He gets a brief run in the team but once Theo's deal is sorted he's back down to the youth team. Think about it.

It's only because Theo has been frozen out of the team again that I'm bringing this whole saga up again. Wenger found it difficult to keep Theo benched at that time. Now that we have more competition for places, Wenger can flex his muscle and freeze him out. We're not struggling for goals and we're on a run. Fans aren't calling for Theo to 'sign da ting' and are more comfortable with letting him go this time.

I find it funny how some on here never take Wenger at face value with some of his comments, especially when he follows it up with action. He's always looking for internal solutions to problems before going outside. We should all know that by now. Example, when he's talking up Sanogo in the press and testing him out in games just as we're approaching a transfer window, he's really thinking about starting a young, inexperienced player instead of buying in the window. When you see him start Monreal as CB and then talk about a lack of CB options in the market...worry because he's really contemplating playing Monreal, as we've just seen this season. He's not just talking fluff and it's worth paying attention.

[fakeyank]

It's rarely about how much skill you have.

It's about how you apply those skills in a match situation.

Theo uses his best ones (movement, off-the-ball runs, finishing, crossing and PACE) more effectively than most others do on the pitch. He is always going to be a frustrating player, but even when he's missing sitters, he's in the right position to miss them. Oxlade is just as frustrating, despite having more to his game. He makes stupid decisions and doesn't always use his attributes in the correct way. The need to put Theo up against Ox and others like Gnabry (who we shouldn't make any definitive judgements on at this stage of his career anyway) is silly. Why can't we use both and have a competitive squad to cope with four competitions a season and the usual 658 injuries?

Taarabt and Quaresma are more skillful than Walcott. Would you rather have them in the team too?

Falcao and Balotelli are more gifted than Giroud. Would you play them ahead of a player like Bif who improves season-on-season by getting the maximum out of his game by doing the right things in the right areas?

I am not sure what you mean when you say Theo's best attribute is finishing. On his good days (which are very few), he may be good but on most days, he couldnt hit a barn door with his finishing. Again, in my previous post, I never mentioned that we should just offload Theo.. I'm saying if he is going to put his foot down and ask for an increase in his pay, then we do not need to shed a tear. He is not a special player and at his age, I dont think many will hold their breath for him to turn it around.

If Taraabt, Quaresma and Walcott were all available and did not play for Arsenal before, I would absolutely pick them over Walcott. At this point, Theo knows our style, has been at Arsenal for almost a decade, so he obviously scores higher than them.

Same goes for Falcao and Balotelli. IF they were available the same time Giroud was available in 2011, I'd have picked them over him. You are comparing a player who knows our system with players who have never played with us. Besides in the case of Giroud, this man has performed, stayed fit and hardly ever made news for holding the club to ransom.

I'll say it again.. I'd rather we keep him here, but if he and his advisers want to get a pay rise, he can leave tomorrow. In terms of promise, I'd rather the club invested in Ox and Gnabry than chase a person who is motivated by money.

[Özim]

I'd take Falcoa over Giroud any day of the week, you'd be mad not to, hasn't settled at Man U but he's a great finisher no question.

As for Walcott, highly overrated, in 10 years he's managed one decent season, plenty of players have done that, indeed someone mentioned Kane being a one season wonder until he does it next season, Walcott is just that and has had plenty of chances to prove otherwise and in my book has failed. Came here as the next big thing turned out he wasn't, could have signed Bale instead and what a mistake it was not to.

Wenger has made some great signings, but Walcott certainly isn't one of them, he's nothing special and his finishing really isn't all that either, when he has a good game it's good but at other times it's average and what's more he's anonymous. He's at an age now where he should have proven his worth given how long he's been with us, truth is he really hasn't, make all the excuses you like but that's a fact and I wouldn't shed a tear if he left and wouldn't worry in the least about facing him either.

[Zerlathon]

I'd take Falcoa over Giroud any day of the week, you'd be mad not to, hasn't settled at Man U but he's a great finisher no question.

As for Walcott, highly overrated, in 10 years he's managed one decent season, plenty of players have done that, indeed someone mentioned Kane being a one season wonder until he does it next season, Walcott is just that and has had plenty of chances to prove otherwise and in my book has failed. Came here as the next big thing turned out he wasn't, could have signed Bale instead and what a mistake it was not to.

Wenger has made some great signings, but Walcott certainly isn't one of them, he's nothing special and his finishing really isn't all that either, when he has a good game it's good but at other times it's average and what's more he's anonymous. He's at an age now where he should have proven his worth given how long he's been with us, truth is he really hasn't, make all the excuses you like but that's a fact and I wouldn't shed a tear if he left and wouldn't worry in the least about facing him either.

I'm not so sure on the Falcoa>Giroud idea, we can only really base opinions on present form and on that basis I would take Giroud over Falcoa any day of the week.

Walcott is an odd one for me, he shows moments of brilliance, but at the same time (and unfortunately the majority of the time) he is pretty average. In all honesty, his prior contract negotiations were at a point where we were in need of him in terms of squad numbers. This game him the opportunity to barter a wage that I really do not think someone of his calibre deserves.

So in general:

Do I want to keep Walcott? Well to be honest, yes.
Do you think he deserves a pay rise? Not at all!

[Niall_Quinn]

Do I want to keep Walcott? Well to be honest, yes.
Do you think he deserves a pay rise? Not at all!

Modern world, modern game. People don't get paid what they deserve they get paid in relation to what others have managed to wrangle before them. So every excessive deal in gypo or chavland has a knock on effect elsewhere. Even mediocre players are getting paid silly amounts now. Whatever the players and their grubby agents pretend, it's all about greed and excess and all without loyalty and gratitude. This is the real definition of "professionalism" in the modern world. You can behave like an utter fuck and it's okay because it's the professional thing to do.

Among fans, the lowest rung of football hell is reserved for the plastic. The guy who cheers for Club A one minute and then switches allegiance when Club B rises to prominence. Nobody takes that guy seriously. Everyone laughs at that guy. These aren't real fans, they are hangers-on who abuse the game because they can. The can afford the ticket when swathes of genuine fans can't. Fortunately these types are few and far between because the typical fan still recalls how to be a fan.

The same can't be said of the part-time, fair weather "fans" that are privileged enough to be playing the game. Most of the players are leeches with zero connection to the game. They have found a way in and a way to exploit and they have no appreciation whatsoever of the tribal nature of the sport - because they are "professional". We don't reserve the lowest run of hell for these bastards except in the odd case where the betrayal runs deep. Sol Campbell, Robin van Judas, Wayne Rooney if he'd have got his way.

Some will say it's money, it's a career, it's putting food on the table and you can't be sentimental about these things. But this argument has no perspective. When the fans pay for a ticket that's about money too, a significant portion of their livelihood. Fans aren't forced to be fans but neither are players so restrained. If money is all they care for then they should become vulture bankers and be done with it. But they prey on sport instead because it's easier given their talents, talents which are significantly on the wane since money became the key factor by the way.

I don't buy for a second the idea loyalty and tribe becomes insignificant or can legitimately be used as a bargaining chip simply because financial dopers down the road can pay a bigger fortune than the one you already enjoy. £100k per week or £200k per week, what's the real difference other than material excess? You can throw the "ambition" thing out the window, that's never been a valid argument. Loyalty and ambition are a great combination and some of the best stories in sport are tales of loyalty being rewarded. We hate the Gerrard story because he's not our tribe, but I'm thinking the Liverpool fans would love to see that loyalty rewarded (slightly tarnished loyalty when viewed in the cold light but impressive enough when taken in comparison to your usual player).

Tony Adams scoring that goal against Everton, Henry scoring that goal in the FA Cup. You have to go beyond the contract negotiations and the "professionalism" of money to ever achieve those moments.

So when Walcott and Arsenal sit down I hope there's more to it than cash and terms. I fear there won't be but if you are riding off on your shield having fun with the spud's tribe having contributed to defeating them then if that moment means anything at all the two parties will reach a compromise and Walcott will continue to play for Arsenal for the right reasons. Arsenal will have to give a little to acknowledge the hopelessness of the modern environment, Walcott will have to demonstrate a desire to be here for more than the cheque. This could all be achieved without agents, such a shame these vile bastards are permitted to foul the game.

Personally I think Walcott will be kissing a different badge next season. A shame. I WILL NOT under any circumstances understand of accept that decision if it turns out that way because it would be wrong to accept it. Theo isn't a kid looking for his big break any more. He made his way up the ranks and chose his club, hopefully for the right reasons. If he sticks then good for him, if he goes then fuck him. Whatever happens, 99.9% of the fans will stay like we always do. We give, they take. The ones who give a bit back are the real legends. Matt Le Tiss still gets the piss taken out of him for "blowing his career" with Southampton. For me he's the epitome of what football should be about.

[Power n Glory]

Modern world, modern game. People don't get paid what they deserve they get paid in relation to what others have managed to wrangle before them. So every excessive deal in gypo or chavland has a knock on effect elsewhere. Even mediocre players are getting paid silly amounts now. Whatever the players and their grubby agents pretend, it's all about greed and excess and all without loyalty and gratitude. This is the real definition of "professionalism" in the modern world. You can behave like an utter fuck and it's okay because it's the professional thing to do.

Among fans, the lowest rung of football hell is reserved for the plastic. The guy who cheers for Club A one minute and then switches allegiance when Club B rises to prominence. Nobody takes that guy seriously. Everyone laughs at that guy. These aren't real fans, they are hangers-on who abuse the game because they can. The can afford the ticket when swathes of genuine fans can't. Fortunately these types are few and far between because the typical fan still recalls how to be a fan.

The same can't be said of the part-time, fair weather "fans" that are privileged enough to be playing the game. Most of the players are leeches with zero connection to the game. They have found a way in and a way to exploit and they have no appreciation whatsoever of the tribal nature of the sport - because they are "professional". We don't reserve the lowest run of hell for these bastards except in the odd case where the betrayal runs deep. Sol Campbell, Robin van Judas, Wayne Rooney if he'd have got his way.

Some will say it's money, it's a career, it's putting food on the table and you can't be sentimental about these things. But this argument has no perspective. When the fans pay for a ticket that's about money too, a significant portion of their livelihood. Fans aren't forced to be fans but neither are players so restrained. If money is all they care for then they should become vulture bankers and be done with it. But they prey on sport instead because it's easier given their talents, talents which are significantly on the wane since money became the key factor by the way.

I don't buy for a second the idea loyalty and tribe becomes insignificant or can legitimately be used as a bargaining chip simply because financial dopers down the road can pay a bigger fortune than the one you already enjoy. £100k per week or £200k per week, what's the real difference other than material excess? You can throw the "ambition" thing out the window, that's never been a valid argument. Loyalty and ambition are a great combination and some of the best stories in sport are tales of loyalty being rewarded. We hate the Gerrard story because he's not our tribe, but I'm thinking the Liverpool fans would love to see that loyalty rewarded (slightly tarnished loyalty when viewed in the cold light but impressive enough when taken in comparison to your usual player).

Tony Adams scoring that goal against Everton, Henry scoring that goal in the FA Cup. You have to go beyond the contract negotiations and the "professionalism" of money to ever achieve those moments.

So when Walcott and Arsenal sit down I hope there's more to it than cash and terms. I fear there won't be but if you are riding off on your shield having fun with the spud's tribe having contributed to defeating them then if that moment means anything at all the two parties will reach a compromise and Walcott will continue to play for Arsenal for the right reasons. Arsenal will have to give a little to acknowledge the hopelessness of the modern environment, Walcott will have to demonstrate a desire to be here for more than the cheque. This could all be achieved without agents, such a shame these vile bastards are permitted to foul the game.

Personally I think Walcott will be kissing a different badge next season. A shame. I WILL NOT under any circumstances understand of accept that decision if it turns out that way because it would be wrong to accept it. Theo isn't a kid looking for his big break any more. He made his way up the ranks and chose his club, hopefully for the right reasons. If he sticks then good for him, if he goes then fuck him. Whatever happens, 99.9% of the fans will stay like we always do. We give, they take. The ones who give a bit back are the real legends. Matt Le Tiss still gets the piss taken out of him for "blowing his career" with Southampton. For me he's the epitome of what football should be about.

I understand what you’re saying but I’m having a real problem with the whole set up of the game these days. The players get far too much attention and it’s just too easy to throw them under the bus. There is an obscene amount of money being thrown about in football. The TV rights money, sponsorship, season ticket prices, transfer fees… it’s boarding on disgusting and prices keep going up each year. The guys paying these player wages are raking it in and stay anonymous for most parts. Football is run by vultures that have no compassion for the game but the player is the one that takes most of the brunt when we talking about greed in the game.

I have no idea what it’s like to be a footballer or live that lifestyle, but I can imagine them asking themselves why they should be the one to ‘rein it in’ when everyone else around them can run rampant with no restraint. Sponsorship deals and TV right deals continue to rocket, transfer fees keep going up and there has to be some boardroom level execs really having a ball of time with all the money they’re making. So if such a character wants to sit you down and downplay the difference between a £100k and £200k lifestyle, maybe lecture you on how loyalty to the club is important and thinking of the fans, you just can’t take them seriously. Why should you? It’s the principle.

I have no idea how Wenger’s contract talks went or why they took long to put pen to paper but the double standards in football ensure that sort of thing doesn’t go to the press. I think it’s bad that he’s talking so openly to the press about Theo’s contact, something that should be private and this is the same man that brought in the 30+ contract policy which goes against rewarding loyalty. That’s just one example of the double standards and contradictions in football. I just hope one day viewing figures and match day attendance numbers plummet hard enough to give some of these guys a real reality check.

[Zerlathon]

Modern world, modern game. People don't get paid what they deserve they get paid in relation to what others have managed to wrangle before them. So every excessive deal in gypo or chavland has a knock on effect elsewhere. Even mediocre players are getting paid silly amounts now. Whatever the players and their grubby agents pretend, it's all about greed and excess and all without loyalty and gratitude. This is the real definition of "professionalism" in the modern world. You can behave like an utter fuck and it's okay because it's the professional thing to do.

Among fans, the lowest rung of football hell is reserved for the plastic. The guy who cheers for Club A one minute and then switches allegiance when Club B rises to prominence. Nobody takes that guy seriously. Everyone laughs at that guy. These aren't real fans, they are hangers-on who abuse the game because they can. The can afford the ticket when swathes of genuine fans can't. Fortunately these types are few and far between because the typical fan still recalls how to be a fan.

The same can't be said of the part-time, fair weather "fans" that are privileged enough to be playing the game. Most of the players are leeches with zero connection to the game. They have found a way in and a way to exploit and they have no appreciation whatsoever of the tribal nature of the sport - because they are "professional". We don't reserve the lowest run of hell for these bastards except in the odd case where the betrayal runs deep. Sol Campbell, Robin van Judas, Wayne Rooney if he'd have got his way.

Some will say it's money, it's a career, it's putting food on the table and you can't be sentimental about these things. But this argument has no perspective. When the fans pay for a ticket that's about money too, a significant portion of their livelihood. Fans aren't forced to be fans but neither are players so restrained. If money is all they care for then they should become vulture bankers and be done with it. But they prey on sport instead because it's easier given their talents, talents which are significantly on the wane since money became the key factor by the way.

I don't buy for a second the idea loyalty and tribe becomes insignificant or can legitimately be used as a bargaining chip simply because financial dopers down the road can pay a bigger fortune than the one you already enjoy. £100k per week or £200k per week, what's the real difference other than material excess? You can throw the "ambition" thing out the window, that's never been a valid argument. Loyalty and ambition are a great combination and some of the best stories in sport are tales of loyalty being rewarded. We hate the Gerrard story because he's not our tribe, but I'm thinking the Liverpool fans would love to see that loyalty rewarded (slightly tarnished loyalty when viewed in the cold light but impressive enough when taken in comparison to your usual player).

Tony Adams scoring that goal against Everton, Henry scoring that goal in the FA Cup. You have to go beyond the contract negotiations and the "professionalism" of money to ever achieve those moments.

So when Walcott and Arsenal sit down I hope there's more to it than cash and terms. I fear there won't be but if you are riding off on your shield having fun with the spud's tribe having contributed to defeating them then if that moment means anything at all the two parties will reach a compromise and Walcott will continue to play for Arsenal for the right reasons. Arsenal will have to give a little to acknowledge the hopelessness of the modern environment, Walcott will have to demonstrate a desire to be here for more than the cheque. This could all be achieved without agents, such a shame these vile bastards are permitted to foul the game.

Personally I think Walcott will be kissing a different badge next season. A shame. I WILL NOT under any circumstances understand of accept that decision if it turns out that way because it would be wrong to accept it. Theo isn't a kid looking for his big break any more. He made his way up the ranks and chose his club, hopefully for the right reasons. If he sticks then good for him, if he goes then fuck him. Whatever happens, 99.9% of the fans will stay like we always do. We give, they take. The ones who give a bit back are the real legends. Matt Le Tiss still gets the piss taken out of him for "blowing his career" with Southampton. For me he's the epitome of what football should be about.

I completely agree with the sentiment about the modern game. The way I see things, we (as fans) no longer support a Football Club... We are now just punters to the "sporting ventures" of the rich and greedy. Within these ventures you have the contractors all just going through the motions earning their wages. When a better offer comes then they hand their notice in and then go.

This will continue to a problem whilst there is still people willing to pay the high prices demanded for the privilege of watching football.

[Niall_Quinn]

I understand what you’re saying but I’m having a real problem with the whole set up of the game these days. The players get far too much attention and it’s just too easy to throw them under the bus. There is an obscene amount of money being thrown about in football. The TV rights money, sponsorship, season ticket prices, transfer fees… it’s boarding on disgusting and prices keep going up each year. The guys paying these player wages are raking it in and stay anonymous for most parts. Football is run by vultures that have no compassion for the game but the player is the one that takes most of the brunt when we talking about greed in the game.

I have no idea what it’s like to be a footballer or live that lifestyle, but I can imagine them asking themselves why they should be the one to ‘rein it in’ when everyone else around them can run rampant with no restraint. Sponsorship deals and TV right deals continue to rocket, transfer fees keep going up and there has to be some boardroom level execs really having a ball of time with all the money they’re making. So if such a character wants to sit you down and downplay the difference between a £100k and £200k lifestyle, maybe lecture you on how loyalty to the club is important and thinking of the fans, you just can’t take them seriously. Why should you? It’s the principle.

I have no idea how Wenger’s contract talks went or why they took long to put pen to paper but the double standards in football ensure that sort of thing doesn't go to the press. I think it’s bad that he’s talking so openly to the press about Theo’s contact, something that should be private and this is the same man that brought in the 30+ contract policy which goes against rewarding loyalty. That’s just one example of the double standards and contradictions in football. I just hope one day viewing figures and match day attendance numbers plummet hard enough to give some of these guys a real reality check.

I didn't mean loyalty and gratitude to the club, that concept vanished when the Americans and Russians arrived. Before that even, when that grubby crook Murdoch was allowed in. Hardly a surprise when you look at FIFA, UEFA and the FA, organisations dedicated to feathering nests. At the top level the game is lost and has been for years and I agree that it would be unreasonable for a player to have any affinity with that sort of shit.

I'm talking about the fans and their relationship with the players and vice versa. There's nowhere near enough emphasis placed on the role the fans play in the game. Without the fans there's nothing, no big sponsorship deals because they wouldn't make sense, no TV deals because nobody would watch and no player contracts because nobody would be paying to get into the stadium. This is what has been taken for granted as the fans have been relegated to a supply and demand equation. This leaves players with a choice. I mean senior players because of course youngsters will want to make it as far in the game as possible and that will inevitable mean changing clubs to progress. Same goes for players seeing out their careers who can't necessarily remain at the top level. With the established players though who have worked their way to a decent contract at a top flight club, there needs to be at least a passing consideration for the fans or else don't come at all. Cut to the chase and go to some mercenary outfit instead.

I hear what you are saying when you ask why should players be prepared to kick something back when the owners and associated hangers-on are scraping out everything they can. It's a fair question. This is the choice, take a huge salary and be loyal to the tribe (not the shitty Russian owner) or take an even bigger salary and abandon ship for a new tribe. Don't expect to be taken seriously when you pick the latter option. There are no part-time memberships on offer, or at least there shouldn't be.

But, like I said, I doubt such considerations will enter into these negotiations.

[Bumble]

there is too much money in football but it isn't because of the chavs and citeh. we cant blame them. its the whole set up. the premier league and champions league ruin football. CL football means all players want to play that level and the better ones will always leave if after a season or two don't get it. If CL was only one team then you would see the leagues even out and make things more competitive. The top clubs wouldn't stockpile players.

alas too much money, each TV deal is more ridiculous than the last. the money ends up in the players pockets while the fans both attendees and armchair are the ones who ultimately pay. with the amount of the new tv deal, every club could halve prices and still live comfortably. now that would be a real benefit.

on transfers we have been linked with sterling. yes please.

[Niall_Quinn]

I completely agree with the sentiment about the modern game. The way I see things, we (as fans) no longer support a Football Club... We are now just punters to the "sporting ventures" of the rich and greedy. Within these ventures you have the contractors all just going through the motions earning their wages. When a better offer comes then they hand their notice in and then go.

This will continue to a problem whilst there is still people willing to pay the high prices demanded for the privilege of watching football.

Football as a job rather than a passion. And you can see the results on the pitch.

I went into the living room the other day and my 8 year old was watching a footie match. Liverpool vs Sunderland - Ladies! My immediate reaction was to ask him why he was watching this. His answer - because it's football. He enjoys watching any football, he's totally into it.

So I sat down and watched for a while. Sure enough, the standard was pretty low but not as pathetic as it used to be. There were a couple of decent players on the pitch, for sure. But what I noticed most was the professionalism (genuine sporting professionalism) of the players and it was impressive. No diving, hardly any fouls, no snidey shirt pulling or sneaky pushes, no backchat to the ref, no moaning and waving imaginary cards. Just sport being played in the intended spirit.

The reason why. There's not enough money in it to ruin it. Yet. The financial angle hasn't been fine tuned. And the sport is thriving mightily as a result.

After 20 mins I was still watching and actually enjoying it. Reminded me of the last time a watched a non-league game, but better because the usual shit is even creeping in at that level.

So while it is unlikely we'll ever see the roots of the game re-emerge in the "big" leagues it remains possible to put the sport first. It is not just an idealistic dream, it's quite possible. But those who control things have no interest in sport, this much is self evident. Now we are getting to the stage where the players have limited to zero interest. Some say the game won't be able to survive as a result. They forget how popular Big Brother was. Shit can sell by the ton when packaged and marketed just so.

[Niall_Quinn]

there is too much money in football but it isn't because of the chavs and citeh. we cant blame them. its the whole set up. the premier league and champions league ruin football. CL football means all players want to play that level and the better ones will always leave if after a season or two don't get it. If CL was only one team then you would see the leagues even out and make things more competitive. The top clubs wouldn't stockpile players.

alas too much money, each TV deal is more ridiculous than the last. the money ends up in the players pockets while the fans both attendees and armchair are the ones who ultimately pay. with the amount of the new tv deal, every club could halve prices and still live comfortably. now that would be a real benefit.

on transfers we have been linked with sterling. yes please.

Being reported today (by the media so 50/50 lucky dip on veracity) Sterling has rejected a £180K offer and also wants to dictate where he plays. If true, do we want his sort? Or maybe he's the only sort you can get these days.

[Marc Overmars]

Sterling has apparently rejected a new deal worth well over 100k a week. Seems like a bit of a cunt really.

[fakeyank]

Sterling has apparently rejected a new deal worth well over 100k a week. Seems like a bit of a cunt really.

Straight swap for Theo

[Niall_Quinn]

Straight swap for Theo

Why? We already have a cheaper version who is just as good. Don't forget, Sterling is going through the same hype phase Theo went through a few years back. Theo wasn't as good as they hyped him to be. Sterling is not as good as they are hyping him to be. They are very similar players from what I have seen. Just give Theo a few more quid and he still works out cheaper than Sterling. At least Theo opted to stay once, so maybe it's not 100% about the money with him. Sterling though, considering the opportunities Liverpool have given him and now add the more than decent offer on top, if he still won't sign then what would we be? A stepping stone for his Marketing or Barca ambitions? If he's leaving Liverpool that's where he'll want to go anyway, or to the chavs or gypos for obscene cash. Doubt we'd be in the running.

[fakeyank]

Why? We already have a cheaper version who is just as good. Don't forget, Sterling is going through the same hype phase Theo went through a few years back. Theo wasn't as good as they hyped him to be. Sterling is not as good as they are hyping him to be. They are very similar players from what I have seen. Just give Theo a few more quid and he still works out cheaper than Sterling. At least Theo opted to stay once, so maybe it's not 100% about the money with him. Sterling though, considering the opportunities Liverpool have given him and now add the more than decent offer on top, if he still won't sign then what would we be? A stepping stone for his Marketing or Barca ambitions? If he's leaving Liverpool that's where he'll want to go anyway, or to the chavs or gypos for obscene cash. Doubt we'd be in the running.

Theo is nowhere close to Sterling tbf. Besides Sterling is 20 and has a great opportunity to improve. I am afraid the same cant be said about Theo... at 26, he is just an average injury ridden player whose best attribute is his pace. May be Sterling wants to play competitive football and its 'not all about the money' for him. Both are motivated by money, just like how we all are, so I could care less even if it is 'all about the money' for him.
As for the clubs you said he'd want to join, you are right... I think 90% of the top players in the world would give an arm and leg to play for those teams but if Sterling is remotely intelligent, he knows that right now he will not start for any of them. At Arsenal, he has a great chance.

IMO, if this happens, it'll be one of the best deals we would do this summer.

[GP]

Sterling has apparently rejected a new deal worth well over 100k a week. Seems like a bit of a cunt really.

Well that only works out as 10k for each of his kids.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, look at the deal we swung for Wilshere and his kids. ;) Jack should have a word and convince him to sign with us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Theo is nowhere close to Sterling tbf. Besides Sterling is 20 and has a great opportunity to improve. I am afraid the same cant be said about Theo... at 26, he is just an average injury ridden player whose best attribute is his pace. May be Sterling wants to play competitive football and its 'not all about the money' for him. Both are motivated by money, just like how we all are, so I could care less even if it is 'all about the money' for him.
As for the clubs you said he'd want to join, you are right... I think 90% of the top players in the world would give an arm and leg to play for those teams but if Sterling is remotely intelligent, he knows that right now he will not start for any of them. At Arsenal, he has a great chance.

IMO, if this happens, it'll be one of the best deals we would do this summer.

Well if Sterling is so much better than Theo, why wouldn't he start for the gypos? Theo certainly would. Navas is a glaring weakness in that team. Both Sterling and Walcott would start over him.

I have watched Sterling a few times this year. Not wanting to tempt fate, seeing as we play them next, he's half the player he was last year and that probably has a lot to do with the huge hole Suarez left that Rodgers tried to plug with wasters like Balotelli. Players like Sterling and Walcott need good players all around them then they both deliver pretty much the same type of game. I don't think Sterling would be an upgrade for us over Walcott. Even if he was it would be minimal and it sounds like he wants an awful lot of money for the narrow margin. The sort of money that would maybe run us into problems with our existing top earners.

I don't see the benefits of Sterling to Arsenal and I don't see it as likely either.

[selassie]

Seems "Young Raheem" as Brenton Rodgers likes to say has had his head turned. It will be Citeh or Chelski, their the only clubs in PL stupid enough to throw silly money at him/Liverpool. I personally quite like Sterling, I think he is a very good young talent, I don't believe we are seriously in the running for his signature though, I think relations between us and the Dippers aren't so good after the Suarez fiasco and I very much doubt they will be willing to entertain offers from us....at least not the offers they would hope to get.

He'll end up rotting on Chelski or Citeh's bench.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Seems "Young Raheem" as Brenton Rodgers likes to say has had his head turned. It will be Citeh or Chelski, their the only clubs in PL stupid enough to throw silly money at him/Liverpool. I personally quite like Sterling, I think he is a very good young talent, I don't believe we are seriously in the running for his signature though, I think relations between us and the Dippers aren't so good after the Suarez fiasco and I very much doubt they will be willing to entertain offers from us....at least not the offers they would hope to get.

He'll end up rotting on Chelski or Citeh's bench.

Maybe if we offer another two quid over the release instead of one......we might be on to something?

[selassie]

Maybe if we offer another two quid over the release instead of one......we might be on to something?

One pound and a penny TBF ;)

[Globalgunner]

Forget Sterling, forget Walcott. Reus is the player we should be targeting, worth every penny and twice the player any one of them will ever be.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't mean loyalty and gratitude to the club, that concept vanished when the Americans and Russians arrived. Before that even, when that grubby crook Murdoch was allowed in. Hardly a surprise when you look at FIFA, UEFA and the FA, organisations dedicated to feathering nests. At the top level the game is lost and has been for years and I agree that it would be unreasonable for a player to have any affinity with that sort of shit.

I'm talking about the fans and their relationship with the players and vice versa. There's nowhere near enough emphasis placed on the role the fans play in the game. Without the fans there's nothing, no big sponsorship deals because they wouldn't make sense, no TV deals because nobody would watch and no player contracts because nobody would be paying to get into the stadium. This is what has been taken for granted as the fans have been relegated to a supply and demand equation. This leaves players with a choice. I mean senior players because of course youngsters will want to make it as far in the game as possible and that will inevitable mean changing clubs to progress. Same goes for players seeing out their careers who can't necessarily remain at the top level. With the established players though who have worked their way to a decent contract at a top flight club, there needs to be at least a passing consideration for the fans or else don't come at all. Cut to the chase and go to some mercenary outfit instead.

I hear what you are saying when you ask why should players be prepared to kick something back when the owners and associated hangers-on are scraping out everything they can. It's a fair question. This is the choice, take a huge salary and be loyal to the tribe (not the shitty Russian owner) or take an even bigger salary and abandon ship for a new tribe. Don't expect to be taken seriously when you pick the latter option. There are no part-time memberships on offer, or at least there shouldn't be.

But, like I said, I doubt such considerations will enter into these negotiations.

Most players speak highly of the fans, thank them for the support and pay the due respect but they don't owe us anymore than that IMO. I highlighted the above point because we have a manager that monitors the players peak condition and will asses whether he gives a new contract based on that. (Not Diaby of course). When they turn 29 he's already eying up potential replacements and you'll soon be in the pay as you play bracket. That sends the wrong message because the players know they're only good to the manager in their prime and once he's got what he wants out of them, they're discarded. Where is the loyalty in that? It's pretty brutal so it sets up a 'get what you can' mentality. It was even worse when we were paying peanuts for wages. I just don't see how or why the players should remain loyal in that sort of set up. If treated properly and there was life beyond your playing career, helping players get into coaching and other areas of the game, maybe they'd be more loyal. Maybe.

[Niall_Quinn]

Come on, even their 'peanuts' are 50 x the wages the fans take home, let's not get carried away by their plight. I'm not asking them to make huge sacrifices, just pay a bit of regard for the fans. Maybe take a second or two each day to see it like the fans see it. Isn't it also true that genuinely top players play? The most mercenary manager in the world can't afford to keep Messi on the bench. You look at the likes of Sterling and you have to wonder. The kid has been offered a fortune to sign up long term for the club he's made his name with, playing in a stadium full of fans that worship him. What's to think about, in reality? There's no decision to be made provided you keep your feet on planet Earth. The decisions created by agents are artificial and entirely focused on loot. It's obscene and there's no genuine excuse for it.

Now if Liverpool were offering him a fiver and a bag of chips or they insisted he play in goal but only on Thursdays, yep move along. But if all you're talking about is a manager who has to manage athletes in a highly competitive sport worried his pacey front man has lost a yard of pace now he's 29 years old, is that unfair? It's sport. At the top level. These realities for part of the rationale trotted out by players when trying to justify their excessive earnings. It's a short career, the reality of the environment. It has nothing to do with loyalty.

We hate John Terry and rightly so. But the guy has to be doing something right at his age to have earned his latest bumper contract. I think it's a bit sad when the majority of players when measured against the likes of John Terry come up short in terms of service to the club and the fans. Terry, Gerrard, Adams, Sterling. Who's the odd man out? (no racism) Where will Walcott sit in that list. If he ends up charging around in a chav shirt that'll be a bit sick won't it? What's so awful with his current situation? He should stay and fight for his place and enjoy the fortunes and the adulation. And so should Sterling.

[Power n Glory]

Come on, even their 'peanuts' are 50 x the wages the fans take home, let's not get carried away by their plight. I'm not asking them to make huge sacrifices, just pay a bit of regard for the fans. Maybe take a second or two each day to see it like the fans see it. Isn't it also true that genuinely top players play? The most mercenary manager in the world can't afford to keep Messi on the bench. You look at the likes of Sterling and you have to wonder. The kid has been offered a fortune to sign up long term for the club he's made his name with, playing in a stadium full of fans that worship him. What's to think about, in reality? There's no decision to be made provided you keep your feet on planet Earth. The decisions created by agents are artificial and entirely focused on loot. It's obscene and there's no genuine excuse for it.

Now if Liverpool were offering him a fiver and a bag of chips or they insisted he play in goal but only on Thursdays, yep move along. But if all you're talking about is a manager who has to manage athletes in a highly competitive sport worried his pacey front man has lost a yard of pace now he's 29 years old, is that unfair? It's sport. At the top level. These realities for part of the rationale trotted out by players when trying to justify their excessive earnings. It's a short career, the reality of the environment. It has nothing to do with loyalty.

We hate John Terry and rightly so. But the guy has to be doing something right at his age to have earned his latest bumper contract. I think it's a bit sad when the majority of players when measured against the likes of John Terry come up short in terms of service to the club and the fans. Terry, Gerrard, Adams, Sterling. Who's the odd man out? (no racism) Where will Walcott sit in that list. If he ends up charging around in a chav shirt that'll be a bit sick won't it? What's so awful with his current situation? He should stay and fight for his place and enjoy the fortunes and the adulation. And so should Sterling.

Just last season you were saying Walcott wasn’t a footballer and we should get rid of him. This is where I have a problem. The players are easily dispensable to the manager and fans when it suits them but flip it around and people go crazy. There is no true loyalty. Also, you know I’m not comparing the wages of a footballer to the average fan. I’m comparing our club to our rivals. I don’t know why the player has to consider the fans when it comes to negotiating wages? You think a Tesco worker has to stop to consider the paying customer when he’s looking to move jobs or seeking a pay rise? Would you?

[Özim]

He was useless for England yesterday, England got a lot better when he went off.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just last season you were saying Walcott wasn’t a footballer and we should get rid of him. This is where I have a problem. The players are easily dispensable to the manager and fans when it suits them but flip it around and people go crazy. There is no true loyalty. Also, you know I’m not comparing the wages of a footballer to the average fan. I’m comparing our club to our rivals. I don’t know why the player has to consider the fans when it comes to negotiating wages? You think a Tesco worker has to stop to consider the paying customer when he’s looking to move jobs or seeking a pay rise? Would you?

Now you are equating a Tesco worker with a footballer. These comparisons don't stand up at all.

It was the season before last, when Walcott was genuinely holding out for cash and trying to dictate his role in the team. BUT, he stayed. Some sort of compromise was reached and he remained an Arsenal player. He could have got more in chav or gypoland and they would have taken him. So that's a positive and demonstrated there must be more to Walcott than just the cash. if he opts to stay again then we are approaching the idea I'm talking about.

I'm not saying he should allow the fans to vote on what he's paid or if he stays or goes. What I'm saying is he's where he is today in part because of those fans (and this can't be denied) and it's right to factor this into his decision making process. Why wouldn't it be? When he was growing up as a kid if you said to him he'd be playing for Arsenal and taking home £100Kpw wouldn't that represent a dream come true? Shouldn't the focus now be on football, breaking into the starting eleven, giving all he can in return for the massive privilege he enjoys? That's the bit that's missing.

I don't think players feel privileged, rather they appear entitled. He's got enough now, surely? Time to start earning those wages rather than looking for the next pay day. I'm not saying this is what he's doing, all we have is press speculation. I'm talking generally about any player that has reached the top level of the game. Why shouldn't they repay the debt they owe or at least acknowledge there is a debt? The fans are the ones kicking in all this cash, where would the players be without the fans?

We're talking morals and principles here. Okay, so maybe these don't apply for greedy owners and overfed club executives and the players who are paid way beyond their abilities. Fair enough, most of these people don't have the character to appreciate their circumstances. That doesn't mean the fans need to go along with it. It escapes me how any fan could simply accept this behaviour as being excusable just because it is prevalent.

What would happen if fans started behaving like players? What if everyone shifted to being a gypo at the end of last season and nobody turned up for any other club? Would the clubs and players rapidly going out of business be sitting there accepting that shit like this happens and it's normal and reasonable? Would they be applauding the plastic army queuing outside the Ethiad? Rather they'd say the disloyal fuckers have ruined the game and they'd be right.

So what keeps a fan at a club through thick and thin? Is it rational or sensible to support Crewe for your entire life? What are they ever going to win? What keeps the fans there? Tribalism and loyalty keeps the game alive and it should cut both ways. I don't insist on players sticking with a club for life, although I do see that as the absolute ideal. But the fuck you, thanks for the cash now I have another badge to kiss routine doesn't sit with me under any circumstances. I can't envisage any argument that could sufficiently apologise for it.

I'll say it again. Players like Terry and Gerrard are putting the rest to shame in this respect and that's embarrassing.

[Power n Glory]

Now you are equating a Tesco worker with a footballer. These comparisons don't stand up at all.

Jeez, NQ. It’s like you just don’t get certain principles in life. Think about economics and how a capitalist society works. I’m not comparing the two professions and the pay scale. Regardless of the profession or what gets paid, there are certain principles that apply throughout. Do I really need to explain this and come up with more examples?


I'm not saying he should allow the fans to vote on what he's paid or if he stays or goes. What I'm saying is he's where he is today in part because of those fans (and this can't be denied) and it's right to factor this into his decision making process. Why wouldn't it be? When he was growing up as a kid if you said to him he'd be playing for Arsenal and taking home £100Kpw wouldn't that represent a dream come true? Shouldn't the focus now be on football, breaking into the starting eleven, giving all he can in return for the massive privilege he enjoys? That's the bit that's missing.

Don’t you think that’s a bit presumptuous? When it comes to football and celebrity culture, it's always easier looking from the outside in and assume you'd do xyz if placed in the same situation but with more money. You don't know these people and you've never had a conversation with them.


I'll say it again. Players like Terry and Gerrard are putting the rest to shame in this respect and that's embarrassing.

They're the highest paid players at their club! It's embarrassing two so many people hold them up as examples. As if they'd stay their whole careers if they weren't top earners and captains of the club with power and influence.


We're talking morals and principles here. Okay, so maybe these don't apply for greedy owners and overfed club executives and the players who are paid way beyond their abilities. Fair enough, most of these people don't have the character to appreciate their circumstances. That doesn't mean the fans need to go along with it. It escapes me how any fan could simply accept this behaviour as being excusable just because it is prevalent.

What would happen if fans started behaving like players? What if everyone shifted to being a gypo at the end of last season and nobody turned up for any other club? Would the clubs and players rapidly going out of business be sitting there accepting that shit like this happens and it's normal and reasonable? Would they be applauding the plastic army queuing outside the Ethiad? Rather they'd say the disloyal fuckers have ruined the game and they'd be right.

Last part.....accept that the players are just that. Players. Most aren't even born in England yet alone London. They're not responsible for the economics of football. A few players turning down massive contracts won't change anything. The real ambassadors of the game are the organisations like the FA, FIFA, UEFA and the clubs. If they're morals are falling by the wayside and let the integrity of the game slide, it's up to the fans to stop turning up. It is that simple. Tribalism, loyalty...what are you loyal to? What are you supporting exactly if the state of football is so unbearable to you? It's an easy fix really.

[Niall_Quinn]

Jeez, NQ. It’s like you just don’t get certain principles in life. Think about economics and how a capitalist society works. I’m not comparing the two professions and the pay scale. Regardless of the profession or what gets paid, there are certain principles that apply throughout. Do I really need to explain this and come up with more examples?

Wrong, wrong and wrong some more. While there are some very BASIC principles that apply in all cases it's simply not correct to suggest there aren't additional principles to consider that are very much dependant on the profession and the pay. We were talking about loyalty and it's ridiculous to suggest this principle can be applied to a Tesco worker. That's a very straightforward proposition - you stack the shelves, we pay you. Don't like it? Go and stack shelves somewhere else. Working for Tesco at a junior level is hardly a profession, requires no skill, attracts no attention and is a one to one relationship between the employer and the employee. When was the last time yo saw somebody wearing a £50 shirt with "Dave from Tescos" written across the back? When was the last time anyone handed over a credit card for a pay per view event with Dave stacking Doritos?

Fans pay to watch Theo Walcott play for Arsenal and kids put money in his pocket when they ask dad to buy the latest Walcott shirt which has just been changed for the 99th time. The loyalty of the fans is part of the industry and the workers in that industry benefit from that loyalty.

It's not just football either. A senior executive might be bound by a non-disclosure agreement or competitive restrictions when leaving a job. Nobody gives a fuck if Dave goes and works for Sainsburys. It's not JUST about the pay and any footballer who is out for himself to the exclusion of all else is short-changing the fans by ignoring the wider implications of being a highly visible football player.

It's this clinical rationalism that reduces everything to economics that lies at the root of most of the problems in this world. Very convenient for those on the make because it allows them to ignore their responsibilities and the consequences of their actions. Nobody should be apologising for that sort of behaviour.

I'll answer your other paragraphs if I get the chance because I need to do some metaphorical shelf stacking for a shitty client now. In this case your take on principles very much applies. But not in Walcott's case.

[Power n Glory]

You not what really annoys me most about this conversation. It's just football! This isn't a service. It's entertainment. You don't have to pay for it. You don't have to watch it. What goes into the players pockets have no real effect on anybody. You can still enjoy football regardless of where Theo plays but if it bothers you that much just switch it off. If it's too expensive, stop paying for it. We really need to stop talking as if footballers are everything that's wrong with the world. It's then people that continue to support and pay for that keeps the system running.

[Power n Glory]

NQ, what do you do for a living by the way?

[fakeyank]

NQ, what do you do for a living by the way?

Posting on GW is a full time job!

[Power n Glory]

Posting on GW is a full time job!

Is it paid work? I do this shit for free! :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

You not what really annoys me most about this conversation. It's just football! This isn't a service. It's entertainment. You don't have to pay for it. You don't have to watch it. What goes into the players pockets have no real effect on anybody. You can still enjoy football regardless of where Theo plays but if it bothers you that much just switch it off. If it's too expensive, stop paying for it. We really need to stop talking as if footballers are everything that's wrong with the world. It's then people that continue to support and pay for that keeps the system running.

That's like saying the local pub is just a place where you can get a drink. Misses 50% of the true function.

Very true, if you don't like the way the game has been stolen and ruined then switch it off!

See how that works? You're just the fan, the mug paying for all of this. So piss off if you don't like it. Or set up another league and run it how you like. (And if it gets successful we'll come in and buy it and ruin that too, and tell you to piss off if you don't like it).

Theo is just the focus of a much wider argument. Fair enough, who cares what an isolated Theo Walcott does? But when they are all doing it, then what? Fans shouldn't have to piss off from their own game (which they probably grew up with) just because Roman gypsy thugs and uncivilised Aussie tycoons have attached themselves.

No, I don't know Walcott. Whether I do or don't has no bearing on this particular discussion. It's what he does when representing the club that falls into the remit of the fans. Anything outside that, who cares? I don't need to be 'inside' to know I have principles that couldn't be swayed by money if loyalty was the cost. I also know I wouldn't deceive myself by hiding behind convenient but specious propositions. I also wouldn't be swayed by fashion. So in a broader sense I can at least speculate on what I'd do given his basic situation. As I previously said there's no real decision to make in the absence of significant circumstances that might legitimately cause consideration. He's on a fortune at a top club - what else can the world do for him I wonder?

Bear in mind I haven't been on Walcott's case this time around. I see nothing that gives weight to the media rumours. Sterling is a better example.

Terry and Gerrard have stuck around the longest and kept themselves at (or near) the top level. Isn't it right they are the top earners? That hasn't stopped top earners doing a runner though, has it? Players on huge sums have moaned and whinged their way to an exit and another pay day. Judas van Persie for example. The lesbian Nasri. That horrendous fuck Adebayor. Cesc was more devious, he actually turned the loyalty argument back on the fans with his DNA bullshit. His DNA is all blue now.

UEFA, FIFA etc. Can't argue with that. They are rotten to the core and at the heart of everything wrong with the game. But that isn't an open invitation for people to copy them. We should be revolted at the mention of their name, not holding them up as and excuse for our own scummy behaviour.

The tribalism I'm talking about is the familiar faces and places and the sense of belonging that all humans thrive on. Well apart from hermits and outcasts. You achieve together, fail together. It's idealistic in nature, often destructive as opposed to constructive but it is what it is. Our club and "them lot", our players and "their" players, us against them. There has to be a familiarity for that to work. Is it a rational way to carry on? Probably not. But as I said in another discussion, a bias towards rationalism is inhuman. You aren't alive if you are entirely rational. This exclusive rationalism is at the heart of your argument. It permits you to ignore the human factors and the consequences of the actions of one individual for the tribe in general.

I don't disagree with everything you are saying. Now the game has been hijacked for the sole purpose of financial gain it seems a bit foolish to try and hang onto traditions. I wasn't even going that far. All I was saying is there are individuals within the game who have fucked it up for all of us. That's how it is. But nobody should give them a free ride for that and as far as I'm concerned there's zero room for understanding.

I work in the pretend IT industry.

[Power n Glory]

What's the true function of football?

Ever wondered why the entertainment industry rakes in ridiculous money but things that really effect us we hardly invest in? Too much talk of 'they' as if we're all excluded from the problem. It annoys me that I even spend this amount of time talking and writing about this.

Bah....enough is enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's a difference between accepting something and acknowledging it. I think you accept these things while I acknowledge them.

[Power n Glory]

That sounds smart but the fact that I'm choosing to spend less time and money on Arsenal/football is the opposite of acceptance.

[Injury Time]

So we bought anyone? This summer transfer business is dragging on! Wenger out! Etc etc

[mr_brighterside]

talk of us buying an Argentinian 16 year old, likely to be true?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Whether we like it or not, a player's market rate is dictated by just that...... the market, not some moralistic view of what they should or shouldn't be earning. That goes for whether they are earning 5k, 50k or 150k a week.

I don't see why Theo or Sterling want to move or why all things considered, or why we would want to sell and for that reason I'll be a bit bitter if we lose Theo. I maintain he is an extremely unique player and a very productive one. I also don't really feel they really owe their clubs anything necessarily. If (and it is a huge IF) either of them can get better wages at a club they have more chance of wining things at whilst playing a significant role, I expect them to reasonably consider those offers, privately if via nothing else.

That's the nature of the beast really.

[Injury Time]

talk of us buying an Argentinian 16 year old, likely to be true?

Only if they can tweak his birth certificate to say he's 12, homegrown :cloud9: :rolleyes:

[A Gunner]

So after Ozil and Alexis, who's this summer's marquee signing? Should we be hoping for another? I don't watch too much outside of Arsenal, who's unsettled?

[sibreen]

Reus as marquee signing, Cabaye, plus another central defender.. would be nice.

[Harland]

Reus as marquee signing, Cabaye, plus another central defender.. would be nice.

Can anyone see Reus realistically? Didn't he just sign a new contract a few months back?

Think we really need another CD only if merts moves on......

Cabaye/Schneiderlin as a squad option would be good, but I'm not too sure if they would be happy as just that; a squad option.

[GP]

Can anyone see Reus realistically? Didn't he just sign a new contract a few months back?

Think we really need another CD only if merts moves on......

Cabaye/Schneiderlin as a squad option would be good, but I'm not too sure if they would be happy as just that; a squad option.

Well I didn't think Ozil or Alexis were realistic either, so you never know.

[Marc Overmars]

We sign Reus then I'd happily pack Theo's bags for him.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

So after Ozil and Alexis, who's this summer's marquee signing? Should we be hoping for another? I don't watch too much outside of Arsenal, who's unsettled?

Most likely Schniderlin or a Kramer/Bender. And if I had my way I'd also go big in for Lloris, no matter how unrealistic that situation looks on paper.

Ain't going to be no marquee attacking player because we don't really need one tbh............. we're stacked there. We're not Madrid/Barca; I'd like think our fans are mature enough to not demand big showbiz transfers even if we don't need them.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind an upcoming promising young striker to add depth as well because Giroud isn't getting any younger, though with Wenger's "weird obsession" with Sanogo and with Akpom apparently highly rated among the coaching staff, it probably won't happen. I'd wet my pants if we got in a Vietto, Lacazette or Dyabala.

Reus also isn't happening no matter how we want it. He's basically already signed his Marketing contract.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah I don't see the need for a big name attacker, though obviously if we got one I wouldn't complain. I guess this will hinge on Theo's situation.

A quality CM to compete with Coq would be just fine. Other than that I'd say we probably have 2 good/great players for every position, it's the strongest squad we've had in a very long time. I've got a feeling Gabriel will probably displace Merts next season.

[GP]

It's funny, for the first time in ages, you look at the squad and there' no obvious weak link in there. No one out of place.

Except for Flamini. I hate Flamini.

[mr_brighterside]

cech may be available and rumour has it he has agreed to keep quiet this season as has been given assurances he can leave in summer to whoever he wants. only 32 and so, by goalkeeping standards, his best years may be ahead of him.

would take another cb, not sure who though. walcott and diaby may go but we may be able to promote from within to replace them.

[Niall_Quinn]

talk of us buying an Argentinian 16 year old, likely to be true?

Sounds like a done deal which will be official on the 9th. Apparently a big and strong #10 with great technical ability and excellent in the air. But he'll stay in Argentina for the next 2 years before coming to us. Wenger moving now because Utd are sniffing around.

One for the future (TM)

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Sounds like a done deal which will be official on the 9th. Apparently a big and strong #10 with great technical ability and excellent in the air. But he'll stay in Argentina for the next 2 years before coming to us. Wenger moving now because Utd are sniffing around.

One for the future (TM)

Lots of talk about this particular one......obvious that Wenger does not want to go through another interview in which he has to admit that he was 'that' close to signing the same player that had just won the Ballon D'Or!

Another that has legs is Dybala and although I am not overly familiar with him.....he sounds like a sound/typical pick up. Would go for Schnerdlein and/or Cabaye, depending on how many we show the door to.....Flams, sadly Diaby, Arteta may be first as I think he would easily secure a club in Spain.

Do we let Jack go to Citeh?

[GP]

I don't believe the Dybala one.

His agent said he's been personally negotiating with Usmanov, which means this one is instant bullshit.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Do we let Jack go to Citeh?

No.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lots of talk about this particular one......obvious that Wenger does not want to go through another interview in which he has to admit that he was 'that' close to signing the same player that had just won the Ballon D'Or!

Another that has legs is Dybala and although I am not overly familiar with him.....he sounds like a sound/typical pick up. Would go for Schnerdlein and/or Cabaye, depending on how many we show the door to.....Flams, sadly Diaby, Arteta may be first as I think he would easily secure a club in Spain.

Do we let Jack go to Citeh?

We let nobody go to them. Finally we have a strong squad. The job is to hold onto it. We don't need the money either. Let the gypos splash on more of the same shit that has landed them in their current mess. We already sold them all our shit, they'll have to look elsewhere.

[Letters]

Do we let Jack go to Citeh?
For 30m we do.

[Marc Overmars]

It's the remix to ignition, Manchester City edition, you bought all Arsenal's players, now you're in 4th position.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I actually think Jack could be the perfect Santi replacement as the deep lying attacking midfielder in our system, as the latter starts aging. Granted Jack isn't as technically supreme as Santi nor have the same two footidness but not many players in football do though. Otherwise they share similar characteristics imo, good dribbling skills to relive pressure, fantastic eye for a pass to start and conduct attacks and good defensive closing down skills.

Also, given the new homegrown quotas announced it would be stupidity to get rid of him as even if he doesn't start when everyone's fit, he's still a quality player to have in and around the squad.

That being said, he really needs to contribute significantly next season and cut out the off-the-pitch shit. The fans and I imagine Wenger are starting to get annoyed with that and another season like the past two and a 35 million bid from City would seem very tempting indeed.

[GP]

It's the remix to ignition, Manchester City edition, you bought all Arsenal's players, now you're in 4th position.

Sippin on coke and rum
Sanga's sat on his bum
It's the freakin weekend baby
Milner is starting up front

[LDG]

It's the remix to ignition, Manchester City edition, you bought all Arsenal's players, now you're in 4th position.

:haha:

So the Gooners in two two
Man Utd in three three

[selassie]

It's the remix to ignition, Manchester City edition, you bought all Arsenal's players, now you're in 4th position.

:lol: classic!

[Niall_Quinn]

Typically stupid article from arsehole pretend journalist Neil Trashcan.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3030889/Arsenal-insist-Jack-Wilshere-going-Manchester-City-bring-best-England-midfielder.html

In summary, Wilshere needs to go to the gypos because his injury record means he needs a fresh start away from Arsenal. Superb logic, because it's impossible to get injured in gypoland - just ask Aguero.

This is the funniest part though:


GAEL CLICHY

Transfer fee: £7m. (We actually got paid for this guy??? Wow!)
Arsenal: 1 Premier League title (2003-04), 1 FA Cup (2005).
Man City: 2 Premier League titles (2011-12, 13-14), 1 League Cup (2014).
Verdict: Decent deal (it certainly was, it allowed us to get proper defenders in)

KOLO TOURE
Fee: £15m. :haha: :haha:
Arsenal: 1 Premier League title (2003-04), 2 FA Cups (2003, 2005).
Man City: 1 Premier League title (2011-12), 1 FA Cup (2011).
Verdict: Decent deal (em... no, daylight robbery)

EMMANUEL ADEBAYOR
Fee: £25m. :haha: :haha: (criminal)
Arsenal honours: none.
Man City honours: none.
Verdict: bad buy (great sale though, thanks a bunch)

SAMIR NASRI
Fee: £24m. :haha: :haha: (paid half of Ozil's fee)
Arsenal: none.
Man City: 2 Premier League titles (2011-12, 2013-14), 1 League Cup (2014).
Verdict: top transfer (which is why he's on the gypo list to get the boot this summer)

BACARY SAGNA

Fee: free. (hasn't justified his fee)
Arsenal: 1 FA Cup (2014). Man City: none.
Verdict: decent deal (because you can never have too many £100K+ per week bench warmers)

We need to sell them Diaby for £30mill.

[Niall_Quinn]

Cuntalans are at it again with their 'fan poll' in a friendly cuntalan rag.


Arsenal defender Hector Bellerin tops poll to replace Dani Alves at Barcelona as youngster is linked with move back 'home'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3030366/Hector-Bellerin-tops-poll-replace-Dani-Alves-Barcelona-Arsenal-defender-linked-home.html

Thanks for Alexis you muppets. Enjoy Neymar. And fuck off about Bellerin, all he has to do is ring Cesc or Bale to get an idea of what it's like in the Spanish circus.

[Marc Overmars]

I read that Mail article on Wheelchair to City. I can believe they're interested but with the new home grown rules coming in, I highly doubt we're even going to entertain the possibility of selling him. He doesn't need a fresh start, he just needs to get fit. He's never going to become the player we think he can be if he's missing 5 months of action every season.

[Globalgunner]

I hope he has spent the time at home watching videos of how Santi, a player shorter than him an 10kg lighter, hardly ever gets robbed of the ball and if he has, he wont sit on his bum pleading to the ref, while an avalanche of players floods towards his goal. This aspect of Wilshere pisses me off extreeeeeemly. Santi is one of those players along with Keown, that I wish never grow old. Keown was such a nasty SOB. Love that guy

[Bumble]

I hope he has spent the time at home watching videos of how Santi, a player shorter than him an 10kg lighter, hardly ever gets robbed of the ball and if he has, he wont sit on his bum pleading to the ref, while an avalanche of players floods towards his goal. This aspect of Wilshere pisses me off extreeeeeemly. Santi is one of those players along with Keown, that I wish never grow old. Keown was such a nasty SOB. Love that guy

Although Santi is 30 so is a lot more experienced and hopefully something Wilshere can learn as he "plays" more. I really cant see the Wilshere to City transfer. Don't see how he fits into there team, plus Arsenal are a lot more stable and now can pay the bucks for the players. He just needs to concentrate on staying fit.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Referees aren't going to protect him. Dribbling head down just invites every gashfaced clogger to tackle straight through his ankles.

He'll probably never have the acceleration or the sleight of foot to get away from that sort of thing, but he can work on his peripheral awareness and his tendency to hold the ball too long.

[AFC Leveller]

Referees aren't going to protect him. Dribbling head down just invites every gashfaced clogger to tackle straight through his ankles.

He'll probably never have the acceleration or the sleight of foot to get away from that sort of thing, but he can work on his peripheral awareness and his tendency to hold the ball too long.

Agree. His stlye of play invited tackles and pressure and he needs to work on the isues you touched on.

Great potential but for me he lacks the attitude and temperment to fulfill it.

[Globalgunner]

Another mistake Wilshere made was bulking up recently. Just look at his massive thighs. Probably thinking it would help him in those tussles. Again bad management by us. You cannot use size to compensate for a deficit in technique. All it has done is limit his mobility. As with the Santi example and also with other players like Makalele and Dennis Wise, not to mention the notable examples of Xavi and Iniesta. Size isnt everything. As much as we would wish to think otherwise. I have long come to the conclusion, that our English players rarely improve under Wenger. Gibbs, Walcott, Wilshire. Not much better players than they were 5 years ago. Ox however, I have great hopes for, there is a potential world beater in there, same for Chambers if we can find him a defined position.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think Wilshere has bulked up that much. He always looked a little stocky from when he first arrived on the scene. He's very short but never looked like a frail kid. I don't think the problems physical and technically, he's good at dribbling, trapping the ball, etc. He just lacks awareness and holds on to the ball for two long which invites a crunching tackle. He doesn't shy away from 50/50s and I think that's the double edge sword when it comes to English players. Foolish pride where he won't bow out of a challenge even if he risks snapping an ankle. It's the sort of thing pundits clap for and frown at the foreign fairies that jump out of a tackle. ;) Barbarians!

We just need to give him time. He's had his struggles but I'm hoping he comes good because you can see he cares for the club and even when he's getting it wrong he gives everything on the pitch. I've given him a hard time when he's performing badly but really need to bear in mind that he's had a long stretch out. He was looking great when he first arrived on the scene. I blame our staff and Wenger for rushing him back from injuries that's aggravated the problem but I;m not so sure about the bulking up thing. From what I recall, Wenger is against the players doing too much weight training like that because it restricts movement.

[fakeyank]

If the only reason to hold onto him is because he fills the English player quota, that'll be a big mistake. He doesnt look likely to change his style of play or his antics off the field. I'd rather we flog him off to the highest bidder and get in Schneiderlin with that money. To fill our english quota, we can bring in James Milner! :lol: :ilt:

[selassie]

TBF Jack is a very talented player, he is just very injury prone and inconsistent..but the talent is there, we have all seen it. We need to keep Jack, he's still young and IMO has a good looking career ahead of him. If he can stay fit and put a decent run of games together he will back in the starting XI in no time.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

So apparently we want Jenkinson.




:haha:

[GP]

So apparently we want Jenkinson.




:haha:

You can't have him.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

So apparently we want Jenkinson.




:haha:

Give us 20 million and Sterling and we'll start talking. :coffee:

[Injury Time]

So apparently we want Jenkinson.




:haha:
He'll banter the hell out of you :blah:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Chamberlain is out injured as we speak and also has yet to prove his consistent fitness so I don't think Wilshere's fitness is enough reason to turf him out. That kind of thinking would have seen us flog RvP before he did anything of note too.

You might think that is a good thing, but we probably wouldn't have got the money we got for him had he not finally shown what he was capable of.