The Liverpool Thread 2017/2018 featuring Jurgen Klopp

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

yes and no. at times a kid needs reminding that apologising is the right and correct thing to do, a little prompting is sometimes needed.

much the same with adults that are too proud to step down and realise when they've made a mistake.

even if it isn't meant it shows a humility much needed and more importantly just hearing the words may actually mean something to the victim.

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Absolutely spot on.

I do the same with my kids, if they've done wrong I tell them to apologise for it.
That's part of them learning right from wrong.

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Originally Posted by Save me Jeebus!

Absolutely spot on.

I do the same with my kids, if they've done wrong I tell them to apologise for it.
That's part of them learning right from wrong.

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Only trouble in this case is there's no victim. Somebody getting murdered just for walking on the street, that's a victim. Patrice Evra having somebody say mean things to him, not really a candidate for victim status. He's a cunt but hardly a victim.

Dalglish's comments are stupid. I couldn't give a fuck what it means in South America. We're in the UK. If you come here, you should know what's acceptable and what isn't. If you don't, you shouldn't be living here. If I go to Singapore and spit gum out in the street, I'd expect to get done for it - or, at least, couldn't complain if I was done for it.

I thought with Liverpool's initial stance that there might've been a lot more to the story. It seems there isn't. Pathetic behaviour from Liverpool.

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Originally Posted by Save me Jeebus!

Absolutely spot on.

I do the same with my kids, if they've done wrong I tell them to apologise for it.
That's part of them learning right from wrong.

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Nope, they can be explained to what is right and what is wrong. Coercing someone to apologise renders it meaningless. I explain to my son what is right and what is wrong and give him time and space to think. When the apology comes - I know he has learnt something and I know he means it.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Dalglish's comments are stupid. I couldn't give a fuck what it means in South America. We're in the UK. If you come here, you should know what's acceptable and what isn't. If you don't, you shouldn't be living here. If I go to Singapore and spit gum out in the street, I'd expect to get done for it - or, at least, couldn't complain if I was done for it.

I thought with Liverpool's initial stance that there might've been a lot more to the story. It seems there isn't. Pathetic behaviour from Liverpool.

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What if the gum spitting law was created on the spot, as your gum hit the pavement? Or created in response to Evra grassing you up? If the FA is now controlling what can or can't be said on a pitch they need to publish a comprehensive list of words so everyone knows where they stand.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What if the gum spitting law was created on the spot, as your gum hit the pavement? Or created in response to Evra grassing you up? If the FA is now controlling what can or can't be said on a pitch they need to publish a comprehensive list of words so everyone knows where they stand.

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Anything that references skin colour in an insult is off-limits. If anyone thinks that's an ad-hoc rule, they've either been in a coma for 50 years or they live in Georgia.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Nope, they can be explained to what is right and what is wrong. Coercing someone to apologise renders it meaningless. I explain to my son what is right and what is wrong and give him time and space to think. When the apology comes - I know he has learnt something and I know he means it.

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Actually that's spot on too.

I do that also. Usually it involves some time out on the naughty step!

But sometimes they do need to be told when they dont realise what they have done wrong.

In Suarez and LFC's case, they've been told, but opened their mouths without any thought.

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Originally Posted by Save me Jeebus!

Actually that's spot on too.

I do that also. Usually it involves some time out on the naughty step!

But sometimes they do need to be told when they dont realise what they have done wrong.

In Suarez and LFC's case, they've been told, but opened their mouths without any thought.

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The way we've handled it has been a total shambles from day one, tbf.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Anything that references skin colour in an insult is off-limits. If anyone thinks that's an ad-hoc rule, they've either been in a coma for 50 years or they live in Georgia.

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Off limits? Says who? A society led by the nose by a hysterical media that does everything it does for profit and is happiest when trading off the back of misery and controversy?

Evra says Suarez isn't a racist, the FA accept he's not a racist, Suarez confirms he's not a racist. So what are we left with? Two guys having a spur of the moment argument in a highly charged environment. A lot of hysteria over a pub incident where nobody gets hurt, not even a hair disturbed. I wonder what other forms of moral outrage we can conjure up while we wave the flags for the murdering cunts shooting up the sand niggers so they can steal their oil? Like I said, fucked up world.

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Originally Posted by Xmas Is Boss

The way we've handled it has been a total shambles from day one, tbf.

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Agreed, you should have told the FA to go fuck themselves.

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Originally Posted by Save me Jeebus!

Actually that's spot on too.

I do that also. Usually it involves some time out on the naughty step!

But sometimes they do need to be told when they dont realise what they have done wrong.

In Suarez and LFC's case, they've been told, but opened their mouths without any thought.

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That is a good approach - and the thinking time often involves being told to go do it in his room.

As for the topic - there is no doubt Liverpool have dragged their Club into the gutter with their behaviour and should have just stfu and left it there. There really is nothing to be gained by them or by Suarez in continuing to chirp the way they have done.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Agreed, you should have told the FA to go fuck themselves.

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I get the feeling we already have.

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Originally Posted by Xmas Is Boss

I get the feeling we already have.

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Well good for you in that case, somebody needed to do it.

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Originally Posted by GB.

That is a good approach - and the thinking time often involves being told to go do it in his room.

As for the topic - there is no doubt Liverpool have dragged their Club into the gutter with their behaviour and should have just stfu and left it there. There really is nothing to be gained by them or by Suarez in continuing to chirp the way they have done.

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Nobody gets any time these days though with the cocksucking media on the case. RvP was making Nazi salutes too, don't forget - but that crap was so ridiculous they couldn't make it stick.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Off limits? Says who? A society led by the nose by a hysterical media that does everything it does for profit and is happiest when trading off the back of misery and controversy?

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Racist insults are off-limits. If you're one of those 'why can't I say black bastard when you're allowed to say white/fat bastard' types that don't understand how words can carry historical significance/connotations that can antagonise someone far more than punching or spitting at someone could then unfortunately I haven't got the time to educate you.

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Evra says Suarez isn't a racist, the FA accept he's not a racist, Suarez confirms he's not a racist. So what are we left with? Two guys having a spur of the moment argument in a highly charged environment. A lot of hysteria over a pub incident where nobody gets hurt, not even a hair disturbed. I wonder what other forms of moral outrage we can conjure up while we wave the flags for the murdering cunts shooting up the sand niggers so they can steal their oil? Like I said, fucked up world.

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I believe someone can murder someone and still be a good person. He shouldn't get off just because he's a nice guy at heart. Consequences for actions.

Are insults to people's mothers off limits too?

What insults are within limits?

Where is the line?

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Originally Posted by Syn

Racist insults are off-limits. If you're one of those 'why can't I say black bastard when you're allowed to say white/fat bastard' types that don't understand how words can carry historical significance/connotations that can antagonise someone far more than punching or spitting at someone could then unfortunately I haven't got the time to educate you.

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No, I'm one of those people who says I don't give a shit what people say about me provided it doesn't cause actual harm. However, if I was a pussy arsed crybaby twat like Evra who has to go running to the teacher every time somebody calls him names then that would be different.

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I believe someone can murder someone and still be a good person. He shouldn't get off just because he's a nice guy at heart. Consequences for actions.

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Yes, because calling somebody names is exactly the same as murdering them. Like I said, if a crime has been committed then call the police, if damages have occurred then call a lawyer and prove it. How has Evra been injured or suffered damages in any way? He hasn't.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Are insults to people's mothers off limits too?

What insults are within limits?

Where is the line?

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I don't know. E-mail the FA and ask them.

If you're looking for well-defined rules like that, you can pretty much start quibbling about most things.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

No, I'm one of those people who says I don't give a shit what people say about me provided it doesn't cause actual harm. However, if I was a pussy arsed crybaby twat like Evra who has to go running to the teacher every time somebody calls him names then that would be different.

Yes, because calling somebody names is exactly the same as murdering them. Like I said, if a crime has been committed then call the police, if damages have occurred then call a lawyer and prove it. How has Evra been injured or suffered damages in any way? He hasn't.

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This is ridiculous. Good for you if you're so thick skinned that you believe that harm can only be physical.

As I said, I'm not going to explain why racist insults deserve punishment.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Are insults to people's mothers off limits too?

What insults are within limits?

Where is the line?

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It's a moving line based entirely on astounding hypocrisy. These fuckers and their fucked up society. If they want to be anal about everything but still claim it's a free society then there should be segregation (choice). Normal fucking people can live in one half of the country and the delicate petals can go live in the other half and cry all day.

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Originally Posted by Syn

This is ridiculous. Good for you if you're so thick skinned that you believe that harm can only be physical.

As I said, I'm not going to explain why racist insults deserve punishment.

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What's ridiculous is the knee-jerk reaction to even a hint of spoken racism while we do fuck all apart from cheer when institutionalised racism is packed of with rifles to fuck up some other country. Listen to the "debate" on Iran, for instance. They can't have a nuke because they are all mad and would definitely use it. Whereas it's okay for lunatics in the States to have a shit load because apart from being the only country to ever use such weapons (indiscriminately) they would never, ever use such weapons. Because they are civilised. It's all just a bunch of shit and it's frightening how many people buy into it.

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Originally Posted by Syn

I don't know. E-mail the FA and ask them.

If you're looking for well-defined rules like that, you can pretty much start quibbling about most things.

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You can't answer whether or not it is 'off-limits' to insult someone's mother?

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Originally Posted by GB.

You can't answer whether or not it is 'off-limits' to insult someone's mother?

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Yes, let's make it off-limits because you can't help who your mother is. You see where we can go with this? Big nose!

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Yes, let's make it off-limits because you can't help who your mother is. You see where we can go with this? Big nose!

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I don't have a big nose, the rest of my face is small.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I don't have a big nose, the rest of my face is small.

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Small face!

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Originally Posted by GB.

You can't answer whether or not it is 'off-limits' to insult someone's mother?

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I have answered it - I don't know. What would I do if I was on the FA and I heard a 'your mother's a whore' insult? I genuinely don't know. I think an insult about somebody's mother - given that in all probability you've never met or seen the woman - is going to carry significantly less weight than a racist one.

Wherever people want to draw the line, I think racist insults are not close to it. To my mind, it's like reacting to a Shawcross of a challenge by enquiring where the line for a red card is. Out of a 100 people, 2 or 3 might say it wasn't a red card challenge. It's a matter of opinion because anything involving human behaviour is, but I think those 2 or 3 people would be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Syn

I have answered it - I don't know. What would I do if I was on the FA and I heard a 'your mother's a whore' insult? I genuinely don't know. I think an insult about somebody's mother - given that in all probability you've never met or seen the woman - is going to carry significantly less weight than a racist one.

Wherever people want to draw the line, I think racist insults are not close to it. To my mind, it's like reacting to a Shawcross of a challenge by enquiring where the line for a red card is. Out of a 100 people, 2 or 3 might say it wasn't a red card challenge. It's a matter of opinion because anything involving human behaviour is, but I think those 2 or 3 people would be wrong.

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Would you be prepared to sanction them for having a different opinion?

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Originally Posted by Syn

I have answered it - I don't know. What would I do if I was on the FA and I heard a 'your mother's a whore' insult? I genuinely don't know. I think an insult about somebody's mother - given that in all probability you've never met or seen the woman - is going to carry significantly less weight than a racist one.

Wherever people want to draw the line, I think racist insults are not close to it. To my mind, it's like reacting to a Shawcross of a challenge by enquiring where the line for a red card is. Out of a 100 people, 2 or 3 might say it wasn't a red card challenge. It's a matter of opinion because anything involving human behaviour is, but I think those 2 or 3 people would be wrong.

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You see, to me, I'm likely to be more offended by an insult to my Mom. I won't cry about it, but it will bother me more. I had many intances when working in a Job Centre where the main thrust of an insult against me was to do with being Irish. I couldn't respond and frankly, I couldn't give a shit.

My lines are drawn in different places - and I don't take kindly to people telling me where a line should be drawn.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What's ridiculous is the knee-jerk reaction to even a hint of spoken racism while we do fuck all apart from cheer when institutionalised racism is packed of with rifles to fuck up some other country. Listen to the "debate" on Iran, for instance. They can't have a nuke because they are all mad and would definitely use it. Whereas it's okay for lunatics in the States to have a shit load because apart from being the only country to ever use such weapons (indiscriminately) they would never, ever use such weapons. Because they are civilised. It's all just a bunch of shit and it's frightening how many people buy into it.

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What you've described about Iran has little to do with racism. It's obviously more an issue about stability. Nobody thinks weapons would be used just because they're Iranian in itself. But about hypocrisy - maybe you're right; maybe we are sitting here not giving a fuck about government actions on a global scale which could be considered in some way racist. But I'd rather we were inconsistently right than consistently wrong.

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Originally Posted by MaxPeck

Are you not from Yorkshire? :unsure:

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erm no, are you???

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

FFS Olly.

http://www.abload.de/img/shesafirinherlazeroer5x.gif

:haha:

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Flavs

erm no, are you???

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The poor sod is from Hull

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Would you be prepared to sanction them for having a different opinion?

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As I've mentioned to you before - consequences for actions. Not beliefs. If you think every black person should be killed, you can't get punished for it. But if you take a racist action, you can get punished for it.

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Originally Posted by Syn

What you've described about Iran has little to do with racism. It's obviously more an issue about stability. Nobody thinks weapons would be used just because they're Iranian in itself. But about hypocrisy - maybe you're right; maybe we are sitting here not giving a fuck about government actions on a global scale which could be considered in some way racist. But I'd rather we were inconsistently right than consistently wrong.

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Let's at least be inconsistently right about the big issues though. Nobody is going to die if we get the trivial stuff wrong. And it's all about racism. The third world is black and brown and there's much more to it than corrupt governments (who we most likely installed anyway). This is the true face of racism but it's acceptable because to do something about it would be hard and would cost us. Whereas tut-tutting over Suarez is easy as fuck and costs us nothing. Personally I think petty racists are thick fucks but provided they don't bother me directly, fuck it, who cares? They're not going to change just because Suarez gets an 8 match ban. Especially when they see their leaders beating the fuck out of every colour under the sun bar white. But they might change if they were educated and given some sort of hope for something better than the scraps of the greedy warmongers' tables. It's all interlinked and we always miss the big stuff so we can fret about the bullshit.

Anyway, GB is Irish - LOL.

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Originally Posted by Syn

As I've mentioned to you before - consequences for actions. Not beliefs. If you think every black person should be killed, you can't get punished for it. But if you take a racist action, you can get punished for it.

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Beliefs are next on the list. Watch and wait.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Let's at least be inconsistently right about the big issues though. Nobody is going to die if we get the trivial stuff wrong. And it's all about racism. The third world is black and brown and there's much more to it than corrupt governments (who we most likely installed anyway). This is the true face of racism but it's acceptable because to do something about it would be hard and would cost us. Whereas tut-tutting over Suarez is easy as fuck and costs us nothing. Personally I think petty racists are thick fucks but provided they don't bother me directly, fuck it, who cares? They're not going to change just because Suarez gets an 8 match ban. Especially when they see their leaders beating the fuck out of every colour under the sun bar white. But they might change if they were educated and given some sort of hope for something better than the scraps of the greedy warmongers' tables. It's all interlinked and we always miss the big stuff so we can fret about the bullshit.

Anyway, GB is Irish - LOL.

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Well, I got insulted for being Irish - but I'm really Canadian.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Well, I got insulted for being Irish - but I'm really Canadian.

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Too easy.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Well, I got insulted for being Irish - but I'm really Canadian.

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Wasn't an insult, it was a revolutionary victory.

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Originally Posted by GB.

You see, to me, I'm likely to be more offended by an insult to my Mom. I won't cry about it, but it will bother me more. I had many intances when working in a Job Centre where the main thrust of an insult against me was to do with being Irish. I couldn't respond and frankly, I couldn't give a shit.

My lines are drawn in different places - and I don't take kindly to people telling me where a line should be drawn.

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I can't say I remember being racially insulted but I'm sure other things that aren't out-lawed would annoy me more. But this is why I made the point about 'out of a 100 people...2 or 3 will disagree'. Whether or not you, in particular, agree with it, a racist insult is a big deal for a reason beyond hysteria. Just because it's water off a duck's back for you doesn't mean it is for everyone. In which case - as it often is with human behaviour - laws play to the law of averages.

About where you draw your own line, I don't need to tell you where to draw the line. I'm just telling you that racist abuse is off it and you can get done for it. I didn't decide that because I'm not the FA or the Crown Prosecution (in the case of Terry).

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Originally Posted by Syn

I can't say I remember being racially insulted but I'm sure other things that aren't out-lawed would annoy me more. But this is why I made the point about 'out of a 100 people...2 or 3 will disagree'. Whether or not you, in particular, agree with it, a racist insult is a big deal for a reason beyond hysteria. Just because it's water off a duck's back for you doesn't mean it is for everyone. In which case - as it often is with human behaviour - laws play to the law of averages.

About where you draw your own line, I don't need to tell you where to draw the line. I'm just telling you that racist abuse is off it and you can get done for it. I didn't decide that because I'm not the FA or the Crown Prosecution (in the case of Terry).

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I agree with that - most laws are enforced by hypocrites and suffered by cowards.