Mikel Arteta Thread

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Originally Posted by Letters

Fine. I don't think he's outstanding tbh. But he's not as bad as some of the other WUMs on here suggest either.

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They should take my stance. Right down the middle.

:lol:

Nice :tiphat:

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Originally Posted by Cripps

I just can't see it. At games or watching on tv, he just really frustrates me. If he did more, maybe the team would do more.

You don't see it much on tv as that just follows the ball but at games, you can see Podolski or Theo making a run but Arteta ignoring them to pass sideways or back, keeps possession but ultimately doesn't do anything.

As I've said, he's not a bad player but he needs to do much more. He clearly isn't great as the WUMs on here suggest

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I admire the sacrifice he makes for the team and understand he's a leader in the dressing room, but he's not comfortable in that position. Sometimes when he has plenty of time and space to turn and make a pass to a player in a better space, he'll rush his decision and pass straight back into a crowed area. He's not comfortable receiving the ball when under pressure and we'll be in serious problems if managers decide to man mark him all game. Besides Arteta, the whole midfield trio needs adjusting. Things just weren't flowing well last season.

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Originally Posted by LDG

And you're saying Arteta had the most in Europe bar Xavi and Pirlo?

Wow.

And all from DM.

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Not this season, the season before.

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-...playmaker.html

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Originally Posted by Cripps

I just can't see it. At games or watching on tv, he just really frustrates me. If he did more, maybe the team would do more.

You don't see it much on tv as that just follows the ball but at games, you can see Podolski or Theo making a run but Arteta ignoring them to pass sideways or back, keeps possession but ultimately doesn't do anything.

As I've said, he's not a bad player but he needs to do much more. He clearly isn't great as the WUMs on here suggest

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Basically we should buy a DM and play him in his natural position, he'd be a decent option to have.

He's made the best of the raw deal he's getting, but he'd be a lot better playing in a position that exploits his talents.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Fine. I don't think he's outstanding tbh. But he's not as bad as some of the other WUMs on here suggest either.

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What about the WUMs who say he's great, you don't mention them?

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Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann

Not this season, the season before.

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-...playmaker.html

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:good:

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

What about the WUMs who say he's great, you don't mention them?

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Not too sure anyone is WUMming saying he's great :unsure:

I stated my case earlier. Maccy said much the same as me, and I'm sure he's not Wumming.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

What about the WUMs who say he's great, you don't mention them?

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Cripps already did. LDG and Maccy haven't been WUMming, the usual suspects have been WUMming and point scoring though.
Tiresome, as always.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Cripps already did. LDG and Maccy haven't been WUMming, the usual suspects have been WUMming and point scoring though.
Tiresome, as always.

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I never suggested the names you mentioned were Wumming at all, I don't think they were.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

I never suggested the names you mentioned were Wumming at all, I don't think they were.

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So what's your point?

People WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're the bestest-westest player ever is almost as bad as other people WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're useless/pointless.

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Originally Posted by Letters

So what's your point?

People WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're the bestest-westest player ever is almost as bad as other people WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're useless/pointless.

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It's worse IMO. The people calling Arteta pointless can back it up. People calling Arteta great cant.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

It's worse IMO. The people calling Arteta pointless can back it up. People calling Arteta great cant.

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How have you backed it up?

Well no, because the stats show him to have been a useful player. All the 'backing up' of him being pointless is subjective opinion which is being deliberately exaggerated to wind others up.

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Originally Posted by Letters

So what's your point?

People WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're the bestest-westest player ever is almost as bad as other people WUMming and point scoring about players by saying they're useless/pointless.

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My point was merely that you choose to point out those that say he's rubbish but ignore those who say he's great as if that's OK.

Incidentally noone said he was rubbish did they, most said he's played out of position and is pretty average playing out of position understandably. He's not a stand out player where he's played, we could find better (which a player who talents suit that role) and then use him where his strengths lie and where he was very good for Everton, offensively.

I've just pointed out both.
Although as (supposed) Arsenal fans we're more likely to be wound up by overly negative opinions about our players than overly positive ones, so they're not quite the same.
And as others have pointed out, the positive opinions in this case are backed up with facts as well as popular opinion, the negative ones aren't which, along with the people posting them, make them seem more WUMmish.

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Originally Posted by Letters

There's no-one better
Than Mikel Arteta

</thread>

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Originally Posted by Letters

Fine. I don't think he's outstanding tbh. But he's not as bad as some of the other WUMs on here suggest either.

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Moving the goal posts :sulk:

:lol:

<_<

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Originally Posted by Letters

I've just pointed out both.
Although as (supposed) Arsenal fans we're more likely to be wound up by overly negative opinions about our players than overly positive ones, so they're not quite the same.
And as others have pointed out, the positive opinions in this case are backed up with facts as well as popular opinion, the negative ones aren't which, along with the people posting them, make them seem more WUMmish.

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That's your opinion though, I think most Arsenal fans have woken up to the fact that we're not that great and that the players and manager are the reason and thus negative opinions of them are fine, so I disagree there. If anything positive opinions like some that we see are worse as they completely ignore what's happened in the last 8 years as if it's been a fairytale and support things that clearly shouldn't be.

The facts come from the season before last where we struggled again, noone stood out other than RVP who carried us. Last season his stats weren't as favourable however, again though we weren't very good and who really stood out.

If he's as good as the stats suggest why aren't people standing up and taking notice of his contribution (none Arsenal fans)?

How is people saying Ramsey :haha:, and to a lesser extent, Arteta are/were SUPERB not an absolute wind up?

While we're not that great we are still one of the best teams in the country, we're not that bad either.
Overly negative opinions of first team regulars are just obviously WUMmish. I think we can all agree that Gerhinho shouldn't be paid to play football but clearly most of our first choice players are pretty decent or we wouldn't be finishing in the top 4. Overly positive opinions can be annoying when people rave about a player no matter how they play

As for non-Arsenal fans' opinion of Arteta this seems like a fairly balanced, thought out piece, I don't think the bloke is an Arsenal fan (I may be wrong, if he is he's tried to be objective about things)

http://www.eplindex.com/32048/mikel-...sung-hero.html

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Originally Posted by Letters

While we're not that great we are still one of the best teams in the country, we're not that bad either.
Overly negative opinions of first team regulars are just obviously WUMmish. I think we can all agree that Gerhinho shouldn't be paid to play football but clearly most of our first choice players are pretty decent or we wouldn't be finishing in the top 4. Overly positive opinions can be annoying when people rave about a player no matter how they play

As for non-Arsenal fans' opinion of Arteta this seems like a fairly balanced, thought out piece, I don't think the bloke is an Arsenal fan (I may be wrong, if he is he's tried to be objective about things)

http://www.eplindex.com/32048/mikel-...sung-hero.html

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One of the best teams in the country? I find using best strange, the reason being we're really were very average for large parts of last season and the season before, we did get results towards the end but the performances were dire to be honest.

We're an OK team in a rather average league these days, we're not really competing for trophies just for a top 4 place against teams who have been shown to lack something.

I think this is our worst team for many years, it lacks creativity, lacks real quality and doesn't have the fighting spirit or hunger for success either.

I saw that piece, I was really referring to the general view, barely anyone really ever mentions his contribution on TV or in the press, this usually points to a player with little influence.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

It's incredibly important to have a player that is always there to control the ball and pass it. It's not to say Arteta is the best at this because he isn't but the need for conventional DMs (as destroyers) I think is a bit antiquated.

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spot on.

he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

buy a DM, stick arteta next to him and watch him flourish again. but as the kingpin of our midfield? do me a favour.

Just want him to be more creative.

It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

One of the best teams in the country?

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Yeah.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...e-2012-13.html

:shrug:

By definition we're one of the best teams in the country. It doesn't matter what the other teams are like, whether it's an average league or not, we finished 4th and haven't finished lower than that for yonks.

we need denilson back tbf

we havent been competing for the title since he's been gone

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

spot on.

he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

buy a DM, stick arteta next to him and watch him flourish again. but as the kingpin of our midfield? do me a favour.

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I disagree about him controlling the midfield. We've looked disjointed for the past two seasons and we're struggling to hold on to possession. It's not like before when we had long bouts of pointless possession, now it seems like we generally struggle to keep the ball moving.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

we need denilson back tbf

we havent been competing for the title since he's been gone

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The original Arteta :bow:

Midfield has been our weakest position for the last 2 seasons.

Arteta has been the major part of that.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yeah.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...e-2012-13.html

:shrug:

By definition we're one of the best teams in the country. It doesn't matter what the other teams are like, whether it's an average league or not, we finished 4th and haven't finished lower than that for yonks.

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Yes but 4th is hardly a great achievement, the way we are so proud to finish 4th is pretty sad to be honest.

Are the top 6 not all one of the best teams in the country as well? It's pretty meaningless, what would give this meaning is if we were competing with the top clubs or picking up trophies, without this being "one of the best teams in the country" is largely meaningless, who really cares about this?

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

Yes but 4th is hardly a great achievement

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I didn't say it was.

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Are the top 6 not all one of the best teams in the country as well?

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Yes.

And it's not meaningless, it just means that we're not that bad a side. We're not that good either of course.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I disagree about him controlling the midfield. We've looked disjointed for the past two seasons and we're struggling to hold on to possession. It's not like before when we had long bouts of pointless possession, now it seems like we generally struggle to keep the ball moving.

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i never said he controlled the midfield, i said he was a controller. the focus is on him, not the whole midfield.

and the struggling to hold onto possession comes from a myriad of problems; shape, lack of balance, tempo etc. cant expect one player to control a midfield.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

i never said he controlled the midfield, i said he was a controller. the focus is on him, not the whole midfield.

and the struggling to hold onto possession comes from a myriad of problems; shape, lack of balance, tempo etc. cant expect one player to control a midfield.

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Well, he's part of the problem. It's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him....I say it's not working out. None of the current starters are controlling the middle at all.

As for one player controlling the tempo, I think Rosicky does a good job at being the glue when he plays and we look more fluid when he plays. Cesc is another obvious one and hope we make a move for him.

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Originally Posted by Letters

While we're not that great we are still one of the best teams in the country, we're not that bad either.
Overly negative opinions of first team regulars are just obviously WUMmish. I think we can all agree that Gerhinho shouldn't be paid to play football but clearly most of our first choice players are pretty decent or we wouldn't be finishing in the top 4. Overly positive opinions can be annoying when people rave about a player no matter how they play

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Gerhinho :bow:.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Well, he's part of the problem. It's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him....I say it's not working out. None of the current starters are controlling the middle at all.

As for one player controlling the tempo, I think Rosicky does a good job at being the glue when he plays and we look more fluid when he plays. Cesc is another obvious one and hope we make a move for him.

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i think you'll find i was the one who just said he was better next to a DM instead of as the DM. in other words, he shouldnt be played out of position.

read posts properly before you comment and try to debate with someone who is actually agreeing with you :haha:

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

i think you'll find i was the one who just said he was better next to a DM instead of as the DM. in other words, he shouldnt be played out of position.

read posts properly before you comment and try to debate with someone who is actually agreeing with you :haha:

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Jeez, someones butt hurt over some past shit!

It's not even a debate, I'm just throwing in my opinion of his role in the team and how the midfield needs tweaking. Don't be so sensitive. I'm not trying to point score with you.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Jeez, someones butt hurt over some past shit!

It's not even a debate, I'm just throwing in my opinion of his role in the team and how the midfield needs tweaking. Don't be so sensitive. I'm not trying to point score with you.

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:blink:

you made something up. i proved you wrong. how is that being butt hurt?

you said that i said he controlled the midfield. i never. i said he was a controller instead of a tackler. here:

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he's a controller, not a tackler.

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then you said "it's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him....I say it's not working out". i never said that. i was the one who said we shouldnt play him out of position i.e. in DM. here:

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which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

buy a DM, stick arteta next to him and watch him flourish again. but as the kingpin of our midfield? do me a favour.

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you really need to learn to read posts properly and also admit something when you're wrong.

you keep bringing up the past shit, says more about you than me :shrug:

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

:blink:

you made something up. i proved you wrong. how is that being butt hurt?

you said that i said he controlled the midfield. i never. i said he was a controller instead of a tackler. here:



then you said "it's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him....I say it's not working out". i never said that. i was the one who said we shouldnt play him out of position i.e. in DM. here:



you really need to learn to read posts properly and also admit something when you're wrong.

you keep bringing up the past shit, says more about you than me :shrug:

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You said, I said.....whatever.

What's the difference between a controller or controlling the midfield? It just reverts back to the sole point about us not doing well at holding possession and controlling the tempo of the game. There isn't really much to prove here. Even next Song, where Song had the more box to box role, we struggled to control possession.

Stop being so sensitive.

ok go off on one and imply what you want to satisfy whatever agenda you want to set. and im the one who should stop being sensitive yet you're the one who keeps bringing up the past :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You said, I said.....whatever.

What's the difference between a controller or controlling the midfield? It just reverts back to the sole point about us not doing well at holding possession and controlling the tempo of the game. There isn't really much to prove here. Even next Song, where Song had the more box to box role, we struggled to control possession.

Stop being so sensitive.

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