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You dont help yourself sometimes. You make many valid points through the board here, and I agree with many, but by putting things like this, its just silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Do you actually believe he had NOTHING to do with these two things coming about? really?
Do you think he just gets into work in the morning, goes into the office and sits and chews his toes until 5pm?
Elneny seems like a Wenger signing of old. A quality player and one that nobody else spotted. No idea how we picked him up for cheap. Really impressed with his performances. Wenger gets credit for that move.
Players I suspect Wenger wasn't that keen on bringing in.....Welbeck, Arteta, Merts, Santos and Arshavin.
He wasn't that much of a hidden entity he was playing in the champions league with Basel last season.
I think the idea that Wenger didn't want Welbeck is a myth, Wenger puts his faith in the Stats DNA site and that indicated that Welbeck was a player who got himself into decent scoring positions more than most.
So you knew about him and wanted us to go for him while at Basel?
Wenger loves a cheap buy so it was a no brainer for him, then it's just pot luck as to whether they work out or not, we've seen plenty of average joe's come in, probability states that the more you bring in the more likely you are to find a few who are good.
Nah, I think Wenger often gets it right with these players. Sagna, Eduardo, Hleb, Monreal, Kos....it's the really young players that he doesn't do so well with. It's a revolving door. Bielik, Sanogo, Eisfield, Ryo...cheap punts that usually end up being sold after a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Kante been better than CoquelinQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Xhaka is also needed. Saturday shoulda showed why.
Coq is a squad player, no more.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Same as Kos whilst I am on the subject. Our midfield and defence still looks vulnerable. Shit against West Ham last week TBH.
Kante's tackling and interception stats are very, very impressive. Throw in his ridiculous work ethic and you have a top player.
I'd take him over Coq who I think is fairly average. Our midfield is tame so his aggression is welcome but I don't think it covers up the fact he is a limited player.
Coq is average. He is just another excuse for Wenger to save money! One more season of this bullshit and Wenger will be gone!:pray::pray:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
It's our system and set up that's the problem. The majority of Leicester players probably dwarf our players stat wise. How that translates into our set up is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
No but I'm not a football manager or a scout, my point is considering he was playing in Europes premier competition getting to the last sixteen I don't think he was flying under the radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yeah totally agree, Elneny looks like a Wenger "Gem" to me, I really like him from what I've seen of him so far and think he has the potential to be a top level CM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Ozil, Sanchez and Cech, to name 3 reasons why it's important. I guess throwing enough money around can land you top players without CL football but only if the end result is breaking back in to the top 4. If it's not important why are clubs in the top half of the table trying so hard to get in there? The money, yes, but also the prestige which can help you sign top players. I think if we'd finished outside the top 4 as a one off it wouldn't have harmed us but dropping out for 2 or more seasons in a row (as many predicted we would under Wenger) and it would have harmed us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
IMO he deserves some credit for keeping us up there when money was tight but now money isn't tight so he should be judged by different standards. He's had a few years to push us on and while the FA Cups have been nice and a good start we needed to push on for the bigger prizes and we haven't.
Which kinda makes sense at the ground in the heat of the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
In the cold light of day on a messageboard that no-one of note reads, not so much.
Yet Man Utd had their eyes on Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger. How much did they pay for the pair? Even Newcastle spent £16m on Shelvey. They could have picked up a cheaper bargain if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Genk made it to the last 16 of the CL, dude! ;) What's your point? Don't take the word 'hidden' so literally. I don't think it's possible for a player to truly fly under the radar for a manager or scout in this modern age. It's just a case of who is smart enough to find an undervalued player that can slot into their system.
Really been impressed with him so far. Makes a huge difference to how we move the ball. Pleased with the purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
In the cold light of day people are still frustrated and venting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
This should have been our year, and we have failed spectacularly that's not something that's got over easily.
I'll reserve judgement on Elneny as it's early days, Coquelin was flavour of the month last season and now people think he's average so things can change quickly.
Yes but wait. Are you impressed because he's not a total bloody shambles? You always have to ask yourself that question when it comes to Arsenal and Wenger. We love Coquelin. Why? Because he's halfway competent, a huge step up for us. Maybe it's the same with Elneny. Is he good enough to play in the middle for Barca, Bayern or Marketing? Probably not. So we have another second tier player. But at least a player that seems to have a clue what he's supposed to be doing on a pitch. And so comes the next question. Is that a hangover from his previous club? Will Wenger train this out of him and instil that tippy, happy goodness he has bathed the rest of the squad in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He deserves abuse for turning 4th place into an ambition. And he gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As a football fan do you actually care if the club is run on a financially sound footing? That's a job for bean counters, not football managers and certainly not fans. Fuck that. We've all been conned to such a degree you'll actually hears Arsenal fans use our book balancing prowess for bragging rights. Hell, I may even have done it myself in the past. But when you finally realise the double entry bookkeeping is the end, rather a means to the end, a light snaps on and all you can thing is FUUUUUUCK! Wow, REALLY? Shit!
Fuck them and their QuickBooks Football.
So the next question. What's the point of Ozil and Alexis and Cech? Is there any real intention to keep going and build a squad to compete at the very top level? No. So these players, like so many before, are passing through. I love seeing them play, so that's a bonus. But they aren't part of a bigger picture, a greater ambition. So you know that what's good today will be gone tomorrow. You know they'll never be supplemented with players who can press the advantage an Ozil brings. Instead we have Giroud and Walcott. So really, what's the point? The players can't do it on their own, nor would you want them to do it alone as that defeats the very purpose of a team game. Oil, Alexis and Cech should have been a statement of intent. Instead the appear to be part crowd appeasement, part shoring up exercise. For the money spent on them Wenger has won a couple of cups and secured his precious 4th place. But no sign of a title challenge and the humiliation of Europe goes on uninterrupted.
What really harms us is Wenger. And the leeches above him who approve of his every business decision and couldn't give a fuck about the football. Nothing can change until this gang of paper shuffling profiteers piss off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
On what do you base that judgement? Personal experience or guesswork?
A faulty WordPress plugin brought down the government of Iceland, so the story goes. The Internet is noise. Noise has a threshold, if it is loud enough then anyone can be reached. Only 60K people can pack into a stadium. But millions of people can say #WengerOut and if they keep saying it it becomes the common sentiment.
Corporate and government drones still don't get the power of the Internet, just as they overlooked the power of the printing press. Unworthy people have to keep the worthy majority silent if they want to carry on their abuse unhindered.
Early days but I think he's doing a fantastic job there. Just as good or maybe even better than Cazorla. I'll keep watching but I rate his performances so far. He plays with intelligence. Picks the right passes and not just sideways passes either. Time will tell if Barca and Real come sniffing. They usually do. Song and Hleb went so can't be too quick to judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If it were a case of me rating anyone that isn't a complete shambles, I'd be full of praise for Ozil. :lol:
Ozil just brings into sharper leaf how we lack a decent striker
The chances the guy creates is unsurpassed, he's leading the assists table even with that carthorse Giroud playing in front of him.
he really prides himself on the `moral high ground` thing. The other day he had a dig at West Ham moving to the new ground for what amounts to peanuts. His desire to do it the right way (on the pitch and finance) means nothing in the football, or sports world in general tbh. It is a corrupt game, as most sport is. There is cheating on the pitch and off of it be it drugs or money or whatever. As a fan all I want to do is see them win, not only games but cups. I dont think thats too much to ask from being an Arsenal fan. We are historically and financially one of the biggest teams in Europe. Teams like us, ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City should all be expecting to win something, not every year, granted, but more regularly than we do. We are a big club, in London, with plenty of cash, we need to use it to push on, because if we are not careful there will be another breakaway of clubs with money (its kind of happening now) and we will be left behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
A business must keep investing each year to keep moving forward and not be left behind. This goes for the Sandwich shop on the street corner of a large football club. Nobody really cares (except for Stan and investors) how rich we are, that will soon be eroded away as we start to slide down the league without continued investment to keep the club moving forward.
He hasn't, that's just the way football has gone. Top 4 has become a 'thing'. It shouldn't be, but it is because of the rise and rise of the CL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
And abuse? Really? If you think he's getting things wrong then criticism, sure, but abuse? At worst he's doing his best but not cutting it any more, abuse is a bit strong. The board arguably deserve abuse as they really don't give a crap about how things go on the field so long as the money keeps rolling in. Wenger at least cares, even if he is increasingly unable to challenge for the biggest prizes.
Only in as much as money and success in football are highly correlated, so it's important from that point of view. I don't believe that the new level of spending at the trophies are a co-incidence.Quote:
As a football fan do you actually care if the club is run on a financially sound footing?
We should be doing better and Wenger isn't making the best of his resources but at least he's making sure we have resources for the next bloke to work with, better that than someone like 'Arry who won the FA Cup with Portsmouth and left a financial train wreck behind.
I disagree, yes of course there is that intention. Whether Wenger has the ability to is another matter but yes, of course that is his intention.Quote:
What's the point of Ozil and Alexis and Cech? Is there any real intention to keep going and build a squad to compete at the very top level? No.
You think he'll be able to get more assists next season? That's if we get a new striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
The stats on the chances he's created suggest he wouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I disagree, he has by hailing it as some sort of major prize, in addition his satisfaction at getting 4th and how relatively unaffected he is by not doing better adds to that sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As for the abuse, well players get the same day in day out (and I don't hear anyone complaining about that) and the way that he goes on as if he's above anyone else and that his job is pretty much there as long as he wants it as well as how he dares to point the finger at the fans, it's no real surprise people take a dislike to him.
I don't understand how you can't see how patronising he is and how arrogant he has become tbh, based on his public persona he's not particularly likeable and that's all of his own making, he could have easily been more diplomatic and less patronising.
What he does is nothing to be proud of, to gain respect you have to earn it, he really doesn't even try.
We have to hope we get a better striker next season in that case. I think it's been an exceptional season for Ozil and I worry he won't be able to repeat it. But still wish he'd pop up with more goals. Just watching De Bruyne for City and that goal that put them through to the semis. Ozil is great at finding space and if he'd work on his shooting we wouldn't be so dependent on a striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Ozil is an exceptional creator (always has been throughout his career) but his finishing has never been up to scatch and that won't change now IMO, De Bruyne however looks like one of those rare goalscoring midfielders that are like gold dust.
We should look to find both a top striker and a goalscoring midfielder because they add another dimension to your play, our best teams had goals from these areas and I think most top teams do, a midfielder will get opportunities that a striker may get marked out of getting which can be very useful when trying to break down teams.
agree. Ozil's lack of shots is really alarming, he almost never has a pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I agree with you for once, I think Ozil scoring goals is only an issue because of the lack of goals elsewhere in the side, I'm fairly sure he's not got into double figures at any club he's been at. De Bruyne is a goal scoring midfielder, a bit like Freddie Ljungberg but with far more technical ability.
Ozil has got eight goals this season which is about par for someone who is a creator and not a goalscorer.
Besides it being an issue for us because of the lack of goals, it's an issue for him as well. Despite having the most assists in Europe, he'll probably miss out on the PFA award as well as the World Player of the Year nominations and awards. He'll continue to get overlooked unless he's able to come up with those important match defining goals.
He's a goal provider not a goal scorer, and frankly couldn't give a shit what individual honours he wins as long as he delivers for us, and his stats show he creates a plethora of chances for competent goalscorers, and that's what we are lacking.
That's where we differ. An attacking midfielder should shoot more and score more goals. It's a part of the job requirement when playing in that position. He's an attacking midfielder and not a central midfielder. If we signed a winger like Navas, a guy that hardly ever scored but chipped in a lot of assists and creates chances, my criticism would be the same. Again, it just relates back to what I said to NQ about why I'm not full of praise for him. A guy that can go out there and go for goal seems like more of gutsy player for me. Taking the burden on his shoulders when a games tight. Just the type of players I like to see in that position.
If it was just this season or may be the last 2 seasons, I'd get your point. To many who opened their eyes early, its the same shit for a long time. The fact that there is so much anger against him on a MB that not anyone of note reads is a sign that fans are sick and tired of the situation. Besides MB's like these are responsible for the anger that people are seeing on the comments section on FB or twitter or other social media. While I think social media has its many vices, this is one of the best things to happen. I am glad people who would just stay in the background and stay silent, can get out and make their voices heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Social media :lol:
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I recognise it was a continuation of a previous conversation but moved the last few posts given they are directly about the Palace game.