Mans actually referred to the Arsenal Fan TV poll as a real point of reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Arsenal is so washed as a club now, lol.
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Mans actually referred to the Arsenal Fan TV poll as a real point of reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Arsenal is so washed as a club now, lol.
Sounds like you belong on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
I don't really know what to think of Ozil anymore. I like him because he's a classy player but in his 4 seasons here I'd be kidding myself if I said he's really enhanced our game in a way that a so-called lesser player of his style could not have done. The fact he hasn't signed a new deal yet probably suggests he wants to leave however I think it's quite telling that we haven't heard much speculation regarding who might want to sign him. He doesn't seem like a man in demand to me.
Never has one player been absolved of as much responsibility as Mesut Ozil, it's always down to his teammates to provide the perfect environment for him to excel. It's like he's royalty for us but stick him at another top club and I doubt he would be held on such a pedestal. Real Madrid and Ronaldo missed him for all of 5 minutes, they've turned into a completely different animal since his departure.
If the right offer came in I think we should sell him. Oh and for the record I don't think he's lazy and I don't read or listen to what pundits have to say about him, I just don't think he's that good at what we all perceive him to do. If that offends any connoisseur's of the game, then so be it. :whistle:
Agree with you on Welbeck. A piss poor player so no argument from me. We're not going to agree on finishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Back to Ozil...watch the below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqiTwd5wEOo
Ox was creating a lot in the first half and created a lot of good chances in 45 minutes. Compare that to Ozil.
- Skip to the 5.16 mark in the video - one cut back to Bellerin blazed high and wide outside of the box. The only chance created in the first half from him.
- At 8.15 Ozil creates the chance for Bellerin which was a tame shot.
- At 8.23 I see the poor header from Welbeck.
I can't see the corner see the corner but couldn't have been a great chance. But these aren't sublime chances that no other player can pull off. It's simple stuff that should be happening consistently. Yes, Bellerin and Welbeck should have scored but you'll see chances created from Giroud, Ox and even Monreal that were of similar if not better quality. It's not enough I'm afraid.
Amen. :gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
77% possession against Stoke and not a single chance created for our £50m striker. It's not as if he was any better with Alexis either. I remember watching the first game of the season at the Emirates and seeing the same from Özil when Perez was up front. It's just not enough and we've seen it too often.
Also agree with you on the whole lazy debate. I don't expect to see him tearing about and putting in slide tackes. But the fact is, even if he played Coquelin next to Xhaka or whatever combination that made us more solid defensively in the midfield where Özil doesn't have to track back, he still won't perform to the level expected of a world class talent. Forget Madrid or other elite clubs. If he had to play for a lower league club where the quality bar is even lower than what's here at Arsenal, how would he fair? If he needs world class players around him to perform and perfect conditions, he'd look terrible if he had to play for West Ham.
yeah, they solidified their midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Meanwhile Wumger is just wumming his way through the seasons.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
He is great when he decides to show up, but to me, he is completely 'sellable'. I'd sell him and offer the extra wages to Sanchez.
Alexis is gone. This rotten board is simply waiting for the right moment and the right excuse to announce it. Ozil is gone too, probably next season on a free. So those who are desperate to see the team substantially weakened while holding out hope Wenger will change the habits of a lifetime and adequately replace our losses can be pleased and disappointed at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
The "Ozil didn't show up" myth has no validity whatsoever. He's almost always near the top of yardage covered (the holy grail in English football), passes made (Wenger's holy grail), and possession retained - Wenger's wank material and so vital to us because very few of our players retain possession in the danger zone. And that includes Alexis. You've already seen the effect of losing one genuine talent, Cazorla. Remove Alexis and then Ozil from the mix and check out what you have left. And you might say, we'll just get better players in as replacements. Well there are two major problems with that. First, who will want to come, as they watch out best players walk away? But much bigger than that - Wenger. What's the chance of him signing a genuine replacement? Almost zero. Add to that the inflation in the market and if you think Wenger is going to spend the 80-100 million needed to buy a world class midfield talent then you are in fantasy land. That's what these players are going to cost next season and Wenger wants no part of it.
But Ozil will be gone anyway. Alexis will leave next week, Ozil will leave next season and for several seasons after that we'll be listening to the people who wanted Ozil gone complaining that Wenger needs to sign a replacement for Ozil.
That cock Wenger has a chance to build on the signings of Ozil and Alexis. He chose not to. Mainly because he's a cock. But also because he's a massive fucking cock.
this is really true. This squad isnt technically solid enough and is loose with the ball. Ozil (and Iwobi) are the only reliable players further up the pitch to keep the ball and make good decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
That's exactly what we need. To turn our 77% possession domination into 89% possession domination. ;)
Sanchez has a low pass success stat but he's the one that scores the most, came up with the most assists and has been the go to guy when we're in need of a goal. No risk no reward. The last thing we need is to fill the squad with more careful pussies that are afraid to play the risky pass or have a shot. NQ cracks me up because he's the first to rail against the tippy tappy football. The problem isn't retaining possession in the danger zone. If we actually had players that could defend, hold their shape and bother to defend when we lose the ball, we wouldn't have to be so conservative in attack.
We're not "conservative" in attack. We're incompetent in attack. That 77% tip tap nightmare breaks down the minute the ball goes into the danger area. You have been campaigning for a year to get rid one of the few players we have that can keep possession in the danger zone, rather than turf it over and expose the defence you are so worried about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
This is classic Wenger logic. Because we're so shit at defending and can concede two goals from teams that only manage one shot on target ;) , the solution is to win more possession and not lose the ball in dangerous areas? That is just backwards. How about learning how to defend so we're not so vulnerable on the counter or afraid to take risks on the edge of the box?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
In the danger areas, we need better quality players that can actually score goals and be a consistent goal threat. Ozil is not that. Watxh the video I posted. Created next to nothing in the first half and only woke up once we went a goal down. It's not enough.
Think about it. Add another player that plays exactly like Ozil to this team and we'll most likely see the same toothless performances.
Add another Sanchez...more risk in possession but with two players in the squad with that sort of drive to score and create....it's a no brainer.
Erm, just no. In the danger area you need a mix of players, including those who can score goals and be a consistent goal threat. And learning how to defend, well yes of course. Always better than not learning how to defend. But how about making something of possession in the final third rather than just losing the ball? Then our learned friends in defence are going to be under less pressure and it will be our opponents who have to worry. What's really backwards is trying to fuck one of our best players out of the team because he doesn't score enough goals to justify his now rather minuscule price tag. All he's done is be Europe's best assister, although (apparently) he doesn't slide enough balls through for strikers that Wenger prefers to position with their backs to goal so they can lay-off passes to certain players who are absolutely shite at retaining possession in the danger area. Around and around we go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
This campaign to get rid of Ozil is ludicrous, frankly. Especially as it's Arsenal fans that seem to be doing the media legwork. Even Wenger's not this dumb. Ozil doesn't score enough goals - get rid. Santi Cazorla has scored 25 times in 129 appearances. Get rid. Ozil has scored 23 in 116. Get rid. Yeah, they might be absolutely vital to the cohesion of the team - but not enough goals. Get rid of a player who Wenger can't replace internally and no way would spent the money to replace from an external source? Makes zero sense, much like the media witchhunt that has been evident since the day Ozil signed. The lazy, stealing a living, best passer, best assisting, world cup winning, almost last remaining prestige player at the club. Get rid. Danny Welbeck can also play there and will be like a new signing when he loses the ball.
As always, doesn't matter the season, weeks gone, pull out the comparisons and Ozil stacks up just fine. Pay attention to the final stat, duels won, to get a glimpse at how lazy and disinterested Ozil is. And that's starting a season when he doesn't want to be here.
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-ma...tal_duels_%#90
And if two games in is too short a time, well tell Keown and Gerrard that. They are the dickheads who started all this up again.
Context is everything. Watch the below video of Ozil's performance against Leicester City this season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruO8qIWdO1w&t=147s
He's great at keeping the ball but where the heck are the quality chances created that people kept fucking up for him? I watched the game live, the highlights and thank fuck for Youtube but I can't see the 10 great chances we've squandered. A few of the best chances fell to him and he missed the target. (6:15) (6:50). Most of what I see here is sideways and backwards passes. Quick ones or cut backs into an already crowed box to Welbeck aren't great chances put on a plate for Welbeck. (2:20) (2:56). Welbeck could do better and should have done a lot better with the cross against Stoke but these aren't wonder passes here. This is bog standard stuff. In the video above you'll see Ozil screw up similar chances.
Ozil is great at keeping possession and if he had some muscle and hustle, I'd love him as a CM. I don't mind the backwards and sideways cautious passing from a CM because possession is important. But as an attacking midfielder, I expect to see more action from him. Take the man on more, take the risk and don't just pass it to the side if there is a risk of physical contact. He can't shoot for toffee. Good to see him take some shots from outside the area this season but he needs to work on his accuracy. And not to totally kill him, I think he's great at crossing the ball. Despite people saying Giroud and Ozil don't work, fact is, Ozil's best season came with Giroud up front and good chunk of the goals were created from set pieces and crosses. Ozil may hate playing wide left but maybe crossing is his most effective weapon. When faced with a crowed box, he really struggles to create. Compare this video to the last one with the Stoke highlights and just look at what Ox was doing. I don't even rate Ox that highly the chances he created and trouble he was causing is the sort of thing people look over. Those are the sort of chances I say are worth highlighting and saying he's unlucky not to have an assist.
Should have got Salah, at 35 mil he looks.a bargain
Ozil has signed a new contract £350k a week not bad work if you can get it.
Mesut. :bow:
He has a played an absolute blinder! Credit to his negotiation team and lawyers for how they played this. £350k a week!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
It's good news for the club because there is would have looked bad to lose both Ozil and Sanchez.
Clean slate for Ozil from me. He's like a new signing and will be judging his performances based off what we have now. With Aubameyang, Mkhitaryan and Lacazette, we're not short of pace and goal scorers.
That's a very strong attacking line up!
He'll probably take the month off now.
Great news.
Yep, I'm opening this case again. How was Ozil against Chelsea?
Same as always in these games.
The German FA woz rite.
Another no show in a big game, can't really defend him now.
At least he doesn't now seem to be immune from getting hooked when playing badly.
In the top 3 people I wish Id never seen with an Arsenal shirt.
Erdogan was number 1.
No doubt he can play when he wants to, but I've never been impressed with him and the wage he's on just galls me.
Who's the other guy? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unaibomber
Was he at least pressing against Chelsea? During the highlights I saw a lot of walking from players. Ozil being one of them but highlights can never paint a full picture. Against City, I could at least see he was trying to press and defend even if he was pants on attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
But if he's taken the foot off the gas already, Emery has to put him in his place. How he does it, I don't know.
Who knows what goes through Ozil's head? Is he trying, does he just find it difficult, are his team mates not good enough for his vision, who knows? He has got the club in a vice hold though. No club is going to pay his wage demands and he can stay trying or not trying or whatever until he runs his contract down. I'll never know why he was given such a hefty contract so recently without evidence to show that he could make a difference at Arsenal.
Ozil got his new contact because we were left in between a rock and a hard place due to amateur contract dealings by the club, we'd pretty much lost Sanchez (so lost 35 odd million) and we were about to lose someone else who we paid 42 million for, with no money for a replacement, from a fans point of view it would have been a disaster likewise for the club.
Ironically we've done it again with Ramsey.
On top of that we've handed Xhaka a new contract when we should have just sold him, now we'll be lumbered with him for years. The clubs transfer business needs a massive overhaul because allowing the situation to reoccur with Ramsey was pretty awful, we should have just sold him last summer, it now looks like he'll leave on a free next summer and we'll miss out on 35 million, which considering our spend last summer and potentially no CL football again is a disaster.
We'll have paid out over £42 mil for him by the time his contract is up so he'd better do something in that time.
But you rate Ozil as a player and I'm sure at the time you would have thought the club have done the right thing by giving him a new contract. For once, we retained a 'star player' and weren't forced into selling a rival.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
What exactly have we done again with Ramsey? I don't get the comparison outside of him being down to his last year on his contract.
I didn't have a problem with re-signing Ozil, I was just saying the club had no choice due to the situation, had he had a few years left on his contract they could have sold him and replaced him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
We've basically let him run down his contract meaning we now either let him go for nothing and loss the transfer fee, or pay him what he wants. We could/should have sold him last summer and got a fee, I'd argue we should have either got him to sign 2 years ago or sold him then.
You've seen how long this thread has been going and know I don't rate Ozil highly at all. We should have sold him when he had two years left on his deal, but I'm in the minority with that opinion. The argument has always been that if we surrounded him with better quality players, he'd flourish. I don't believe we should have signed a player up to a major deal if he consistently produces 5's, 6's and 7 performances on the pitch but you rarely see 8-10 performances from him and need to spend even more money on other players just so he can perform at that elite level. That wasn't smart and the club should have stepped in and stopped Wenger's madness a lot earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Ramsey isn't in the same position as Ozil. This isn't unique to our club either. A lot of players get down to the last year of their deal and truth be told, Ramsey isn't a good player and that's reflected in the demand for him. He's not a household name and if we lose him for peanuts we haven't lost much because we paid peanuts for him. What's similar to Ozil, is that nobody has made a firm approach for him and we'd be making a serious mistake if we offered him a new deal that includes a massive pay rise. We should avoid that at all costs. I don't care if he has to go on a free transfer. The £35m price tag is phantom money. Nobody has made a bid for him. Not even a last minute transfer deadline day rumour about him.
:gp: I agree with you totally about Ozil and Ramsey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
Ozil is currently the second highest paid player in PL behind Sanchez, he earns almost 100k more a week than the likes of Hazard, De Bruyne and Aguero.
Ozil and his agent absolutely took us to the cleaners with his new deal, it really is bonkers.
Yes I know that, I don't disagree with that, but I feel the same about any player if the club can't come to an agreement with them, especially because we don't seem to have much money floating about, if we had an owner who invested I wouldn't care so much because money can come from elsewhere, but as we know Kroenke isn't interested in investing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
So you suggest we should have just lost Sanchez and Ozil for nothing then? If that had happened the fans would have gone nuts and the club knew it, so they couldn't let it happen, the poor planning put us in this situation, again we could have sold Sanchez a year ago (or two maybe) but we didn't and ended up having to settle for a player we probably wouldn't have signed otherwise, it's all down to poor planning by the club.
A for Ramsey, like him or loathe him had we had him under contract we'd have got 40 million for him at least and even last summer perhaps 30 million which considering the fact we seem to not spend a huge amount could have been important, you can't just write off 30-40 million because you don't rate him, it would be better to get money for him because we could at least re-invest, now we'll get nothing.
Ramsey definitely has his admirers, you might not rate him but others do, we got money for Walcott and the guy was a total dud (you can even see it now at Everton), so we'd have got money for Ramsey for sure.
As for being unique to our club, I haven't seen many clubs let their best players walk away for nothing, usually they sell them at least with a year left on their contract (Courtois for example, but Chelsea have money available from their owner as well), so that they get some money in.
They did, but they knew they could as we were on the verge of losing our two most expensive players for nothing, it's the clubs fault really, had they planned we could have sold him and replaced him with the money we received, instead we had a choice of letting him go for nothing and the fan going crazy or signing him up to quieten the fan revolt down somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
This club doesn't want to spend, but is happy to waste whatever we are able to spend on huge contracts and losing players for nothing, it's amateurish.
No, I'm not suggesting we should have lost both players for free. Where did you get that from? For Ozil, I said we should have sold him when he had two years left on his deal. The focus should have been on trying to sign up Sanchez because he kept some sort of value even when he had less than a year on his contract. Value in his contribution on the pitch and his transfer fee. I can't say the same for Ozil or Ramsey. Neither have attracted any sort of attention in the final days. No swap offers, no low ball offers, nothing. If a player is in high demand, clubs don't wait until the player is out of contract so they can battle it out with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, in a bidding war. Way too much risk involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
But saying all this, it's a lose lose situation whatever the club does in your eyes. If we sell, you'd complain about it, if we keep them at all costs, you'll say we have handled business badly and overspent. Which is what we have done with Ozil. There is no outcome I can see here that would satisfy you. And I have no idea where this late loving for Ramsey has come from. The guy is pants.