Arsenal 2-0 Stoke - Match Reaction

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Originally Posted by Letters

Last 18 games for the top 3, since the start of the year:


Chelsea W12 D5 L1 Pts 41
City W10 D3 L5 Pts33
Arsenal W13 D3 L2 Pts 42

:tiphat:

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Another carefully crafted statistic that masks the end of the season performance - which 18 games is not, btw. That's almost HALF a season. Honest.

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Originally Posted by Kano

I

And again, you keep the argument confined to small pockets of activity for Theo to bolster the argument. Because he is injured so much that is the only way anyone can discuss Theo. You have framed this as a debate about his 'recent' contribution but if you actually read back, you'll find I've been talking about his career. It only became a recent discussion when you pulled out a top-line, superficial stat. For a player that has spent so much time out injured, I'm not sure how you can separate his injuries from the argument. It's a huge part of why his career has not progressed both in terms of development and continuing to be a functioning part of our squads. I said in the summer that Wenger wouldn't buy a striker as the Theo experiment was going to now move to this current position. He is a utterly replaceable player, one that fans will easily forget about when he does limp on. I've no fear of him going to a rival because no one has shown in interest in him, which is hardly surprising. The best rumour conjured up was Liverpool. Hardly a step up in his career. So I repeat again, he'll score some goals, get some assists, maybe even have anther good season but amongst all of that he'll break down, miss a lot of games and frustrate the life out of fans on and off the pitch. The years he should've spent working on his game have been spent glueing him back together and those are vital moments he'll never be able to get back, vital time that will always haunt him.

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Stop it.

My post.

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In your mind maybe. You've quickly forgotten the season where he was our top goal scorer and top with the assists. But that's another argument and I don't think you'll see past the negatives in Theo's case regardless which explains a lot.

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Your response.

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We're already talking about Theo as if he's retired. Do you remember that season when he scored and assisted? Yeah that was good, I remember those good ole days. For a player in his mid-twenties that says it all.

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That's how we got on to this 11 goals in 11 starts blurb. It's a stat the press are running out and I heard on MOTD. Checked it out for myself and they're not wrong.

I don't think there is much more to say. It's just shifting goal posts now.

‘Theo offers nothing to the club’ :blah: - He was our top goal scorer before his injury with a load of assists.

‘That was two years ago’ :blah: – He’s scoring goals since being back from injury. 7 goals last season and he only started 7 games. A goal last weekend.

‘That’s a small pocket of activity’ :blah: - Well he hasn’t been starting many games since being out but the last time he had a full season he was top goal scorer. :doh:


The debate stems from this sort of comment

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We're still waiting ten years later to see if he'll ever have anything to offer.

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You answer your own question when you now say he'll get goals and assists. :doh:

Not really, it's a long, sustained run at the business end of the season.
We dropped points in 5 out of 18 games, and several of those were after the title had already gone and automatic CL qualification was assured.

It's the fact people can see what Theo has to offer that causes the frustration. The inconsistency, and surely nobody would deny that, is infuriating. He's one of, if not the most senior player in the squad. He should be well established as a first team player and one of the reliable core we depend on through the good and bad. But nobody in truth could claim that's the case. If he's who we are going with as our main striker then he'll need to show a lot more and on a regular basis. Hot Theo/ Cold Theo just gives us Bif all over again doesn't it? In other words, not good enough to mount a title challenge.

I don't know why we are still fucking around trying to extract extra from tier 2 players when we have the money now to compete properly. It's a pain in the Arsenal.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Not really, it's a long, sustained run at the business end of the season.
We dropped points in 5 out of 18 games, and several of those were after the title had already gone and automatic CL qualification was assured.

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Ridiculous Letters. The dropped points came at the sharp end of the season when the final placings were being decided. The money excuse states we can't compete with the dopers. We had it in our hands to bust that excuse wide open and finish above the gypos. They won all their games, we collapsed. Those are the facts stated in the record book. You can look those facts up on the BBC web site if you want. So we didn't finish above the gypos - why? Well because there's no difference between 2nd and 3rd apparently. Which is not even the point. The point was to dispel the supposed reality of us not being able to compete with dopers. Well we were competing with them and we could have done them too. But we "understandably" took our foot off the gas because the chavs had won the title. Those poor deluded gypos didn't take their foot off the gas and they went perfect in the closing games. Coincidentally, they have carried that belief and momentum through to a new season. Also coincidentally we carried our shitty finish through to the opening games of this season. BUT - we won a cup so that means nothing that happens in the PL is relevant. I bet Wigan were telling themselves the same after their cup win.

Btw - I don't disagree with you in some respects. I believe we did take our foot off the gas when the CL pacing was secured and I believe Wenger also thinks there's no difference between 2nd and 3rd place. Which is why he needs to go.

The really frustrating thing about him is there have been flashes of real quality from Theo, some tantalizing hints that he could be the real deal.
But yes, the inconsistency is maddening, I don't know if it's the injuries or whether he's not as good as we all hoped he'd be (maybe in part because of the injuries).
He missed a load on Saturday but the goal, when it came, was terrific. If he could just get consistent...

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Originally Posted by selassie

I personally think Theo is given a really rough ride TBH, even when he was producing numbers on the wing some folks were complaining!

Theo isn't perfect, he has lots of room for improvement but he's a decent enough option for us up top and the best one at the moment IMO. I don't dislike Giroud, I think he brings things to the table too but I don't see how he fits into the team long term if we harbour any ambitions of being the best in the League and a challenger in CL.

I think Wenger has something decent to work with Theo, it's an experiment but not a massive one, Theo has a lot of really decent attributes that he brings to the team, he has blistering pace, is a decent finisher with both feet and gets himself into very good positions, he is lethal on the counter attack. I think if he is given an extended run in the team he has it in him to produce decent numbers from up top.

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A real rough ride and I think I’ve heard it all in recent months. It’s comical. So many holes in peoples arguments and it’s just a personal preference thing. He has a lot to prove up front but I’ve seen people pine for Welbeck to play up front and Podolski when he was here even though they’re performances were far worse than Theo’s. I don’t mean to shit all over other players because you need time to adjust up front but Theo has been more impactful with less game time there. And as said, even when on the wing he gets a lot of hate and those same people are now saying he should be played there despite saying he offers nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Letters

The really frustrating thing about him is there have been flashes of real quality from Theo, some tantalizing hints that he could be the real deal.
But yes, the inconsistency is maddening, I don't know if it's the injuries or whether he's not as good as we all hoped he'd be (maybe in part because of the injuries).
He missed a load on Saturday but the goal, when it came, was terrific. If he could just get consistent...

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When he doesn't have to think about it he has the instinct to score, running on to the ball players / or keeper running at him not so bad (almost Henry-esk), but if he's stopped and has a chance to think where there is more than one option it seems to go out the window (more Heskey then Henry). I guess we hope that he gets an injury free run where the later proves to just be rustiness :pray:.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Not really, it's a long, sustained run at the business end of the season.
We dropped points in 5 out of 18 games, and several of those were after the title had already gone and automatic CL qualification was assured.

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I admire your work at the moment and what it's doing for this place but it's hard to ignore this sort of short mindedness. Invented stance or not. I've posted a few times how superficial this stat really is, the type of teams it was against and how our inability over the past two seasons against the top 8 is the real issue. Look at who those victories were against in the second half of last season and then look at who will failed against in the second half of the season. The same pattern as the first half. We can slice a season up anyway we want to pick out the stats we need but across the season, you will see in 13/14 and 14/15, against the better teams in the league we consistently struggled. Why that will change now is anyone's guess.