Arsenal 2-0 Stoke - Match Reaction

[Niall_Quinn]

Meanwhile Wenger who has done nothing but look out for the long term future of the club gets endless stick. Yes, he's paid well but that's because he's far more than just a football coach. He will leave us in fantastic shape financially and well placed to compete with anyone - if we get a competent replacement. I think some credit where it's due is reasonable.

I doubt you'll find anyone on here who disagrees with that bit, so what point are you trying to make? In the last 10 years he's been an excellent caretaker. But he's shown he's not up for another title push (by has lack of activity in the transfer market) so now's the time to start arranging his replacement with somebody who is. Has to start now, no point waiting until his contract is up or they'll just do that "nobody was available" thing again.

[Niall_Quinn]

So I repeat again, he'll score some goals, get some assists, maybe even have anther good season but amongst all of that he'll break down, miss a lot of games and frustrate the life out of fans on and off the pitch.

That's about right.

And realistically, once Theo is injured again, we are left with Bif. Which is why Wenger should have signed a striker this window, or the last, or the one before that. But he didn't and so here we are. It's not just penny pinching and an idealistic view on value (in a league that doesn't know the meaning of the word), it's a lack of ambition and that's exactly what you don't want in competitive sport. Of all the faults, you don't want that one.

[selassie]

Penguin, we had Stoke pinned back inside their own box for the majority of the game. We had close to 70% of possession and kept the ball in their half. The accusation against Walcott playing up front is that we can't do that when he plays. The weekend proved otherwise. He has a lot to prove but if you watch the MOTD highlights, you'd see a couple of the runs Theo made and chances were in tight spaces.

I personally think Theo is given a really rough ride TBH, even when he was producing numbers on the wing some folks were complaining!

Theo isn't perfect, he has lots of room for improvement but he's a decent enough option for us up top and the best one at the moment IMO. I don't dislike Giroud, I think he brings things to the table too but I don't see how he fits into the team long term if we harbour any ambitions of being the best in the League and a challenger in CL.

I think Wenger has something decent to work with Theo, it's an experiment but not a massive one, Theo has a lot of really decent attributes that he brings to the team, he has blistering pace, is a decent finisher with both feet and gets himself into very good positions, he is lethal on the counter attack. I think if he is given an extended run in the team he has it in him to produce decent numbers from up top.

[Niall_Quinn]

I personally think Theo is given a really rough ride TBH, even when he was producing numbers on the wing some folks were complaining!

Theo isn't perfect, he has lots of room for improvement but he's a decent enough option for us up top and the best one at the moment IMO. I don't dislike Giroud, I think he brings things to the table too but I don't see how he fits into the team long term if we harbour any ambitions of being the best in the League and a challenger in CL.

I think Wenger has something decent to work with Theo, it's an experiment but not a massive one, Theo has a lot of really decent attributes that he brings to the team, he has blistering pace, is a decent finisher with both feet and gets himself into very good positions, he is lethal on the counter attack. I think if he is given an extended run in the team he has it in him to produce decent numbers from up top.

Wenger has had an eternity to work with Theo and we're still talking about Theo's potential. What has Wenger been up to and what gives anyone the belief he;s about to spring into action and start extracting the best from this player? The track record so far is pretty dismal. And he's doing the same shit with Ox btw, talking about him being a central midfielder.

[Niall_Quinn]

And what was the Sanogo thing all about? Or Chamakh? When trying to judge Wenger's competency in these things the whole picture should be considered. He blew a transfer window waiting to get Chamakh, does anyone have the faintest clue why? Sanogo is just Bizarre. You only have to watch the guy for 5 minutes to know he has nothing. That Martial kid, watch him for 5 mins and you can see the potential bursting out of him. No need to be a top coach, just use eyes and see. When we were fucking around with Sanogo Martial had a £3.5mill price tag attached. Wenger either didn't see him at all, which says a lot about our scouting network if true, or he compared him to Sanogo and picked the postman. That's pretty worrying. People say Wenger's no fool but a fool could have spotted the difference between Sanogo and just about any player that ever lived.

[selassie]

The point is he wont get those chances in every game. Have a look at the starts he has made up front. In order it has been: West Brom, Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle, and Stoke. I'll give him credit for the West Brom game, which was arguably the best I've ever seen him play. Villa and Stoke were open games from two teams with terrible defences, so those are the games we expect Theo to do well in. But the Chelsea and Newcastle games were the ones where Theo struggled in. Newcastle put everyone behind the ball when then went down to ten men and Theo was nowhere to be seen for the rest of the match. I've already mentioned the Chelsea game which he didn't even get a shot in. Where were the chances in those games?

Those are exactly the type of matches people have been saying he'll struggle in. That's where the limitations of his overall game will show themselves up. If you're in a game like that and your striker can't receive the ball, doesn't have the skill to create a chance for himself and can't head the ball you might as well be playing with 10 men.

I think you are giving Theo a hard time TBH, you are cherry picking games he didn't score in and using it as justification to why he shouldn't lead the line. Theo's movement creates chances, it might not be as exotic as dribbling round 5 players but it's still an attribute that creates chances, he was heavily involved in the build up to Chambo's goal against Chelsea with his movement, that counts as far as I am concerned as directly being involved in the goal. Sure he didn't have a shot on target but I think he just be cut some slack because he has more than earnt a chance up there given his record in the big games, he knows how to deliver in them.

In the grand scheme of things Theo's record as a Centre Forward is very good and right now we have no other option and TBH I don't think Wenger is in any hurry to buy a "world class" centre forward, his comment post match after Stoke about "Where would Theo play?" if he bought a new forward says it all for me.

[selassie]

Wenger has had an eternity to work with Theo and we're still talking about Theo's potential. What has Wenger been up to and what gives anyone the belief he;s about to spring into action and start extracting the best from this player? The track record so far is pretty dismal. And he's doing the same shit with Ox btw, talking about him being a central midfielder.

NQ, I see where you are coming from but Wenger is now converting Theo into a centre forward. Theo was delivering on the flanks, his numbers were up there with the best wingers in Europe and have been for a good few seasons now so I wouldn't say he hasn't developed. IMO Wenger geniunely has something decent to work with here.

Oh and I do largely agree with your point about Wenger using the first team as some kind of "player development project", I don't actually want Wenger to be our manager and haven't done for a few seasons now.

[selassie]

And what was the Sanogo thing all about? Or Chamakh? When trying to judge Wenger's competency in these things the whole picture should be considered. He blew a transfer window waiting to get Chamakh, does anyone have the faintest clue why? Sanogo is just Bizarre. You only have to watch the guy for 5 minutes to know he has nothing. That Martial kid, watch him for 5 mins and you can see the potential bursting out of him. No need to be a top coach, just use eyes and see. When we were fucking around with Sanogo Martial had a £3.5mill price tag attached. Wenger either didn't see him at all, which says a lot about our scouting network if true, or he compared him to Sanogo and picked the postman. That's pretty worrying. People say Wenger's no fool but a fool could have spotted the difference between Sanogo and just about any player that ever lived.

Sanogo is a "Wenger Vanity Project" IMO.

[Letters]

Fantastic WUMing. It's blatant but it's delivered so flawlessly it works.

Last 18 games for the top 3, since the start of the year:


Chelsea W12 D5 L1 Pts 41
City W10 D3 L5 Pts33
Arsenal W13 D3 L2 Pts 42

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ, I see where you are coming from but Wenger is now converting Theo into a centre forward. Theo was delivering on the flanks, his numbers were up there with the best wingers in Europe and have been for a good few seasons now so I wouldn't say he hasn't developed. IMO Wenger geniunely has something decent to work with here.

Oh and I do largely agree with your point about Wenger using the first team as some kind of "player development project", I don't actually want Wenger to be our manager and haven't done for a few seasons now.

Isn't he converting him into a centre forward because Bif's not good enough and Wenger can't find the "value" he wants in the transfer market? Is this Wenger's Plan A or is it no plan at all and purely reactionary? Why Chamack? Why not convert Theo back then? Why Sanogo? Why not convert Theo? 50% will be the injuries which (although probably not entirely) have been beyond Wenger's control. Which begs the question can Theo ever get a run in the team without being laid-up? So far no. It'd would be great if Theo stays fit and finds his consistency and ups his involvement and finds his accuracy and all that - we'll be in good shape if that happens. Or we could have bought a striker that can already do all that and doesn't get injured all the time. The way Wenger seems to have chosen relies on a lot of things coming good that haven't come good so far. Doing it the hard way is how he likes it though.