Cesc

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

:gp:

Gave his best for Arsenal IMO and deserves more respect from Arsenal fans.

Agree that he wouldve stayed a bit longer had we an inkling of a top European team. That is not the important point IMO.. important point is that when he was sold, why was he sold at that price and even with that price, we deserved to sign players of equal caliber. I see only one person to blame for this..

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Well no he wanted to go to Barca evensaid it when he got there its simple.

So all this rubbish about him staying had we been a better team is nonsense.

I don't care that he wanted to join his boyhood club, put yourself in his shoes and it was a no brainer, win nowt here with a club happy to just be playing CL football, or join a team regarded as the best ever, winning everything in sight.

His interviews about us have grown more candid as the season has gone on. The impression I get is that he was very disheartened by the amount of change that went on around him, so it was very hard to gain some continuity and grow as a team. Something which also many of us fans have voiced concerns about in the past.

I'm not particuarly bitter about Cesc but nor do I really consider him a legend or anything of the sort. I don't doubt the affection he has for the club but I do think he eventually lost motivation and the team suffered for it, if there's any issue to be had then it's here because he was the captain and should have led by example, but he didn't.

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Originally Posted by Syn

I think in the 09/10 season, he put in 100% effort. Last season, I think he didn't want to be here and it showed because he was fucking awful and disinterested in many games, and that apathy spread probably spread through the team and fans.

He's not an Arsenal legend. He's just another player who left us at the first opportunity. He didn't give us 8 years. We gave him 8 years. As soon as Barca thought they had room for him, Cesc wanted to go and did. Hleb, Flamini, Fabregas, Reyes etc. no difference in my eyes.

Anyway, at least we got a much needed change.

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:gp:

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Well no he wanted to go to Barca evensaid it when he got there its simple.

So all this rubbish about him staying had we been a better team is nonsense.

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You really think that if we were winning titles like Utd or he had top players like Vieira, Henry, Pires around him, he wouldnt have thought twice about leaving? He was carrying a bunch of freeloaders like Denilson, Diaby, Chamakh, Squillaci, Vela, Bendtner etc etc.

His boyhood club is the best team in the world or has been the best team in the world for the last 4-5 years and we have been consistently average (at best). Why wouldnt he want to leave? Only a player who is not ambitious would chose us... Reason why players like Chamakh still want to be with us. I said it before.. we are a middle class club. We will always do the bare minimum to do the necessity but wont push that limit. Comes from the board and unfortunately our manager. We need some winners at our club.. not a bunch of journeymen.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

You really think that if we were winning titles like Utd or he had top players like Vieira, Henry, Pires around him, he wouldnt have thought twice about leaving? He was carrying a bunch of freeloaders like Denilson, Diaby, Chamakh, Squillaci, Vela, Bendtner etc etc.His boyhood club is the best team in the world or has been the best team in the world for the last 4-5 years and we have been consistently average (at best). Why wouldnt he want to leave? Only a player who is not ambitious would chose us... Reason why players like Chamakh still want to be with us. I said it before.. we are a middle class club. We will always do the bare minimum to do the necessity but wont push that limit. Comes from the board and unfortunately our manager. We need some winners at our club.. not a bunch of journeymen.

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Yes he always said he wanted to go back their, lets not make out that that he would have stayed with us for life if we did or that stuff.

Nasri is someone who you could say who left to win trophies cause he was not pinning over a move to his boyhood club for 2 years.

If Cesc had gone to Madrid or a Inter then id say he had enough of this lot etc. But going to Barca was about going home for him and winning things with the club he loves like he always wantd to do.

It was only we stupidly sold him for less then we should.

he gave us a good service and for that i am greatful but he will never ever be an Arsenal great to me not because he left, cause he just was not a gooner great.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Gave his best for Arsenal IMO and deserves more respect from Arsenal fans.

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You of all people talking about respect! :sarcy:

If RVP left this season, I gather most people will talk ill of him when he leaves even though they can completely understand why. When you watch your coach the same silly mistakes time after time and the Board fail to invest in top quality players, it takes it's toll. The reaction was mixed when Henry left but has completely simmered as the years have gone by. When Henry left, I was pretty bitter about it, but you eventually get over it. Cesc isn't in the same league as Henry but he's in no way near Flamini, Reyes and Hleb. Not in my opinion and you could tell by the emotion showed with each victory and his reaction to the fans. He loved playing here.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

If RVP left this season, I gather most people will talk ill of him when he leaves even though they can completely understand why. When you watch your coach the same silly mistakes time after time and the Board fail to invest in top quality players, it takes it's toll. The reaction was mixed when Henry left but has completely simmered as the years have gone by. When Henry left, I was pretty bitter about it, but you eventually get over it. Cesc isn't in the same league as Henry but he's in no way near Flamini, Reyes and Hleb. Not in my opinion and you could tell by the emotion showed with each victory and his reaction to the fans. He loved playing here.

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What shite especially when you know most fans have said they understand if he went and would not hold it against him. none are holding it against Cesc either.

Why should we care about him he's a Barca player now their problem.

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Originally Posted by Syn

I think in the 09/10 season, he put in 100% effort. Last season, I think he didn't want to be here and it showed because he was fucking awful and disinterested in many games, and that apathy spread probably spread through the team and fans.

He's not an Arsenal legend. He's just another player who left us at the first opportunity. He didn't give us 8 years. We gave him 8 years. As soon as Barca thought they had room for him, Cesc wanted to go and did. Hleb, Flamini, Fabregas, Reyes etc. no difference in my eyes.

Anyway, at least we got a much needed change.

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Totally agree with this.

Cesc was a great player and if he wanted to go to Barca, I have no problem with that. It is sad that he just looks like just another diving writhing Barca cheating scumbag now.

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Originally Posted by Coney

Cesc was a great player and if he wanted to go to Barca, I have no problem with that. It is sad that he just looks like just another diving writhing Barca cheating scumbag now.

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He looked the same with us.

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Originally Posted by Letters

You of all people talking about respect! :sarcy:

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Yup, I have it for anyone who does their best in the Arsenal shirt. Left early due to actions of an incompetent manager and useless board.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Yes he always said he wanted to go back their, lets not make out that that he would have stayed with us for life if we did or that stuff.

Nasri is someone who you could say who left to win trophies cause he was not pinning over a move to his boyhood club for 2 years.

If Cesc had gone to Madrid or a Inter then id say he had enough of this lot etc. But going to Barca was about going home for him and winning things with the club he loves like he always wantd to do.

It was only we stupidly sold him for less then we should.

he gave us a good service and for that i am greatful but he will never ever be an Arsenal great to me not because he left, cause he just was not a gooner great.

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I never said he is great nor did I ever say he wouldve stuck around forever. I do not see born and bred gooners like Jack Wilshere, Jenkinson (if he turns into a world class player), Oxo staying with us if AW continues with the bullshit he has been doing since 06. I only say that Cesc wouldve thought twice or delayed his departure to Barcelona for a longer time.. we did not give a world class player, a world class squad to play with. What we gave him instead was a bunch of mediocre highly paid donkeys and a clueless manager past his sell on date.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

incompetent manager.

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:lol: You think we'd be in 3rd if we had an incompetent manager?

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Originally Posted by Letters

:lol: You think we'd be in 3rd if we had an incompetent manager?

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We'd be out of all competitions by February for 6 years with a club of Arsenal's resources.. yes! Very incompetent

Dodged the question then :good:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Dodged the question then :good:

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Yes, he is incompetent. I said that in the reply above your post. I look at being 3rd with the resources he has at hand, as a failure. I look at Arsenal as having everything to be the top 3 clubs in world football.. u r happy with top 3 in England and scrapping for CL places. From your perspective, he is very competent.. for me, he is a failure. Depends on perspective.
I hope I never change my perspective and be satiated with being 2nd, 3rd or 4th best. I know it entails me a lot more heartache compared to being content seeing my team lose almost a 3rd of the games in the season and thinking we did something alright, just because the other teams around my team were failures.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

If RVP left this season, I gather most people will talk ill of him when he leaves even though they can completely understand why.

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hopefully so. it would follow in the best traditions of being a football supporter. y'know, calling digging out ex players when they fail. hardly a bloody revelation is it

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Yes, he is incompetent. I said that in the reply above your post. I look at being 3rd with the resources he has at hand, as a failure. I look at Arsenal as having everything to be the top 3 clubs in world football.

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Really? ManYoo, City, Chelsea, Barca and Real all have far bigger resources. That's just off the top of my head. We're always up there in the 'rich list' of clubs but that's misleading. City aren't up there at all on that list but you know as well as I that we can't compete with them in the transfer market. None of the above have new stadia to pay off and some of the above are bankrolled in ways we're not and I hope we never are.

We're 3rd. The only teams ahead of us are Utd who we pretty much all acknowledge (through gritted teeth) have the best manager around and City who have spent their way there. We've above all the other sides plenty of whom have spent a lot more than us in an attempt to dislodge us and failed repeatedly. If Wenger is incompetent then what does that say about their managers? Do you actually think it's easy to finish top 4 every single season for as long as Wenger has? Fergie is the only other manager who has done it in England. That tells you something.

I'm happy with being top 3 in England in the sense that it's a lot better than we've been for most of Arsenal's history. I was looking back, from the 50's to the 80's we won 7 trophies. 7. In 40 years. And some of those were a long way apart, we won nothing at all in the 60s, for example. Some people on here have the idea that Arsenal have always been a successful club and won lots of trophies, historically that isn't so. Where I'm less happy is that given that we are at that level we should be winning trophies and that is where we have failed. Wenger has failed. I've explained at length elsewhere why I'm a bit more optimistic about this current lot so we'll see. Let's face it Wenger is going nowhere so you might as well get behind him and he deserves respect for exactly the same reason you say Cesc does - he's giving his best for the club (even if you think that best isn't good enough) and if he is being too restrained in the transfer market I genuinely believe that is at least in part because he's looking longer term. Maybe in part it's because of his principles and doing things the 'right way' which I in some ways admire but also think he needs to be a little more pragmatic. I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Yes, he is incompetent. I said that in the reply above your post. I look at being 3rd with the resources he has at hand, as a failure. I look at Arsenal as having everything to be the top 3 clubs in world football.. u r happy with top 3 in England and scrapping for CL places. From your perspective, he is very competent.. for me, he is a failure. Depends on perspective.
I hope I never change my perspective and be satiated with being 2nd, 3rd or 4th best. I know it entails me a lot more heartache compared to being content seeing my team lose almost a 3rd of the games in the season and thinking we did something alright, just because the other teams around my team were failures.

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best manager in the league tbh

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

best manager in the league tbh

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No. 2nd best.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Really? ManYoo, City, Chelsea, Barca and Real all have far bigger resources. That's just off the top of my head. We're always up there in the 'rich list' of clubs but that's misleading. City aren't up there at all on that list but you know as well as I that we can't compete with them in the transfer market. None of the above have new stadia to pay off and some of the above are bankrolled in ways we're not and I hope we never are.

We're 3rd. The only teams ahead of us are Utd who we pretty much all acknowledge (through gritted teeth) have the best manager around and City who have spent their way there. We've above all the other sides plenty of whom have spent a lot more than us in an attempt to dislodge us and failed repeatedly. If Wenger is incompetent then what does that say about their managers? Do you actually think it's easy to finish top 4 every single season for as long as Wenger has? Fergie is the only other manager who has done it in England. That tells you something.

I'm happy with being top 3 in England in the sense that it's a lot better than we've been for most of Arsenal's history. I was looking back, from the 50's to the 80's we won 7 trophies. 7. In 40 years. And some of those were a long way apart, we won nothing at all in the 60s, for example. Some people on here have the idea that Arsenal have always been a successful club and won lots of trophies, historically that isn't so. Where I'm less happy is that given that we are at that level we should be winning trophies and that is where we have failed. Wenger has failed. I've explained at length elsewhere why I'm a bit more optimistic about this current lot so we'll see. Let's face it Wenger is going nowhere so you might as well get behind him and he deserves respect for exactly the same reason you say Cesc does - he's giving his best for the club (even if you think that best isn't good enough) and if he is being too restrained in the transfer market I genuinely believe that is at least in part because he's looking longer term. Maybe in part it's because of his principles and doing things the 'right way' which I in some ways admire but also think he needs to be a little more pragmatic. I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

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:gp: It's easy to lose perspective when we feel we could be doing better, but to call Arsene Wenger incompetent is clearly nonsensical.

Incompetent would mean he is not doing what he has been tasked to do. If his brief from the board was to keep the Arsenal in the CL every year, not break the bank while we get the new stadium out of the way, then he has been extremely competent, even if we fans have been frustrated with the resultant year-after-year of almosts and not-quites.

Is he the best manager in the league? Hard to say. If his brief was to only to target winning trophies, then clearly he is merely 2nd as Letters says.

If Ferguson had the brief to keep manu in the CL every year AND finance a new stadium from scratch while taking care not to go bust or blow the cash flow, could he have done it? We'll never know.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Yes, he is incompetent. I said that in the reply above your post. I look at being 3rd with the resources he has at hand, as a failure. I look at Arsenal as having everything to be the top 3 clubs in world football.. u r happy with top 3 in England and scrapping for CL places. From your perspective, he is very competent.. for me, he is a failure. Depends on perspective.
I hope I never change my perspective and be satiated with being 2nd, 3rd or 4th best. I know it entails me a lot more heartache compared to being content seeing my team lose almost a 3rd of the games in the season and thinking we did something alright, just because the other teams around my team were failures.

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Thats the most retarded thing ever posted on GW since you were one of the people who thought we not even finish in the top 4 with the resources we had. way to move the goal posts to suit your argument eh.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Really? ManYoo, City, Chelsea, Barca and Real all have far bigger resources. That's just off the top of my head. We're always up there in the 'rich list' of clubs but that's misleading. City aren't up there at all on that list but you know as well as I that we can't compete with them in the transfer market. None of the above have new stadia to pay off and some of the above are bankrolled in ways we're not and I hope we never are.

We're 3rd. The only teams ahead of us are Utd who we pretty much all acknowledge (through gritted teeth) have the best manager around and City who have spent their way there. We've above all the other sides plenty of whom have spent a lot more than us in an attempt to dislodge us and failed repeatedly. If Wenger is incompetent then what does that say about their managers? Do you actually think it's easy to finish top 4 every single season for as long as Wenger has? Fergie is the only other manager who has done it in England. That tells you something.

I'm happy with being top 3 in England in the sense that it's a lot better than we've been for most of Arsenal's history. I was looking back, from the 50's to the 80's we won 7 trophies. 7. In 40 years. And some of those were a long way apart, we won nothing at all in the 60s, for example. Some people on here have the idea that Arsenal have always been a successful club and won lots of trophies, historically that isn't so. Where I'm less happy is that given that we are at that level we should be winning trophies and that is where we have failed. Wenger has failed. I've explained at length elsewhere why I'm a bit more optimistic about this current lot so we'll see. Let's face it Wenger is going nowhere so you might as well get behind him and he deserves respect for exactly the same reason you say Cesc does - he's giving his best for the club (even if you think that best isn't good enough) and if he is being too restrained in the transfer market I genuinely believe that is at least in part because he's looking longer term. Maybe in part it's because of his principles and doing things the 'right way' which I in some ways admire but also think he needs to be a little more pragmatic. I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

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Brilliant postt letters from ya as per usual.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Really? ManYoo, City, Chelsea, Barca and Real all have far bigger resources. That's just off the top of my head. We're always up there in the 'rich list' of clubs but that's misleading. City aren't up there at all on that list but you know as well as I that we can't compete with them in the transfer market. None of the above have new stadia to pay off and some of the above are bankrolled in ways we're not and I hope we never are.

We're 3rd. The only teams ahead of us are Utd who we pretty much all acknowledge (through gritted teeth) have the best manager around and City who have spent their way there. We've above all the other sides plenty of whom have spent a lot more than us in an attempt to dislodge us and failed repeatedly. If Wenger is incompetent then what does that say about their managers? Do you actually think it's easy to finish top 4 every single season for as long as Wenger has? Fergie is the only other manager who has done it in England. That tells you something.

I'm happy with being top 3 in England in the sense that it's a lot better than we've been for most of Arsenal's history. I was looking back, from the 50's to the 80's we won 7 trophies. 7. In 40 years. And some of those were a long way apart, we won nothing at all in the 60s, for example. Some people on here have the idea that Arsenal have always been a successful club and won lots of trophies, historically that isn't so. Where I'm less happy is that given that we are at that level we should be winning trophies and that is where we have failed. Wenger has failed. I've explained at length elsewhere why I'm a bit more optimistic about this current lot so we'll see. Let's face it Wenger is going nowhere so you might as well get behind him and he deserves respect for exactly the same reason you say Cesc does - he's giving his best for the club (even if you think that best isn't good enough) and if he is being too restrained in the transfer market I genuinely believe that is at least in part because he's looking longer term. Maybe in part it's because of his principles and doing things the 'right way' which I in some ways admire but also think he needs to be a little more pragmatic. I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

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So Man United fans should use this excuse when they stop winning trophies - Before Fergie came we hadn't won the league in 26 years we should remember that. Forget the success we enjoyed for 20 years and that we're the wealthiest and most popular club in the world and remember we used to be shit in the 70s and 80's we can't complain we don't win trophies now. Despite clearly underutilizing our resources as well as the manager making a lot of basic management mistakes for years and years . If he tells us settling for 4th and no trophy every year is good enough because you didn't have it so good before I came we have to like it and lump it.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Thats the most retarded thing ever posted on GW since you were one of the people who thought we not even finish in the top 4 with the resources we had. way to move the goal posts to suit your argument eh.

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Are u sure he didn't say with the squad we have

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Originally Posted by latewinner

So Man United fans should use this excuse when they stop winning trophies - Before Fergie came we hadn't won the league in 26 years we should remember that. Forget the success we enjoyed for 20 years and that we're the wealthiest and most popular club in the world and remember we used to be shit in the 70s and 80's we can't complain we don't win trophies now. Despite clearly underutilizing our resources as well as the manager making a lot of basic management mistakes for years and years . If he tells us settling for 4th and no trophy every year is good enough because you didn't have it so good before I came we have to like it and lump it.

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So your a manc fan now?

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Originally Posted by latewinner

Are u sure he didn't say with the squad we have

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He says a lot of things. but i sure he'll say the sqaud to help his argument.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

So your a manc fan now?

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No but the we used to be bad excuse has no relation to where we are now

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Originally Posted by latewinner

No but the we used to be bad excuse has no relation to where we are now

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Its not an excuse though its the truth. No one is hiding behind it either that was letters own Opionion and he is entitled to it is he not.

To me it is. Our position in the past has nothing to do with what we expect now. And we're clearly nowhere near maxing our resources. When our back up strikers are worse than nearly all the others in the league and a fair few championship team is that us using our resources fully. A guy on a free who can barely get a game and when he can does nothing and another striker who so bad can't get a game. Is Wenger banking on rvp staying fit with his injury record and having those two in wait using resources fully
Everton were able to buy a good striker for 5 million, Newcastle another one for 10 million both contributing to their team straight away. How is that a team that was relegated 2 years ago can now overtake us? Really, is that where should be now, struggling to keep ahead of Newcastle.

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Originally Posted by latewinner

To me it is. Our position in the past has nothing to do with what we expect now. And we're clearly nowhere near maxing our resources. When our back up strikers are worse than nearly all the others in the league and a fair few championship team is that us using our resources fully. A guy on a free who can barely get a game and when he can does nothing and another striker who so bad can't get a game. Is Wenger banking on rvp staying fit with his injury record and having those two in wait using resources fully
Everton were able to buy a good striker for 5 million, Newcastle another one for 10 million both contributing to their team straight away. How is that a team that was relegated 2 years ago can now overtake us? Really, is that where should be now, struggling to keep ahead of Newcastle.

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:doh:

Yeah Newcastle having one good season means they can overtake us, If your appying that logic then it goes for 14 other teams in the prem too.

All i know is the board will do things the same way they always have and until a new man comes in or Stan gains ful control not much will change. No of us no how much money there is to spend and none of us never will.

Like i said if Letters feels finsihing 3rd its his issue does not mean he not want the club to do better or the club should not do better.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

hopefully so. it would follow in the best traditions of being a football supporter. y'know, calling digging out ex players when they fail. hardly a bloody revelation is it

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Nope, just moronic.

i'm not sure you get this whole supporting a football club thing.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

i'm not sure you get this whole supporting a football club thing.

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Ignore him. If it was Chamachk this thread was made for he'd be giving to him. But because its Cesc and he left because that bad man Wenger made him Cesc has to be treated like a victim and Arsenal Legend he never was.

Who cares about former players, thats the point their former players. Its ok to be thankful for what they did. But their is not wrong with laughing at them.

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Originally Posted by latewinner

So Man United fans should use this excuse when they stop winning trophies - Before Fergie came we hadn't won the league in 26 years we should remember that. Forget the success we enjoyed for 20 years and that we're the wealthiest and most popular club in the world and remember we used to be shit in the 70s and 80's we can't complain we don't win trophies now. Despite clearly underutilizing our resources as well as the manager making a lot of basic management mistakes for years and years . If he tells us settling for 4th and no trophy every year is good enough because you didn't have it so good before I came we have to like it and lump it.

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I don't know what you mean by using the word 'excuse', it's not an excuse it's just factual information about our history. Yes, in the 70s ManYoo weren't even in the top division. They should remember that and they should be thankful for what Fergie's done for them. They should remember that historically no club has dominated football forever and that they're lucky to have seen the things they have, as are we. Fans of most sides have never seen their side win the league let alone the double. Liverpool were the kings of the 70's and 80's, who knew that when they regained the title from us in 1990 it would be their last title to date. To expect the level of succcess which Utd now enjoy, and we enjoyed for the first half of Wenger's time with us, is unrealistic. We should have done better in the last 7 years but some people on here are under-estimating how hard it is to finish in the top few every single season. No-one else bar Fergie has done it. Yes, we should have won some trophies along the way in the last 7 years and that is Wenger's failing, but he's hardly taken us to the brink of relegation. It could be better but it could also be a lot, lot worse.

Another wegner moan up... Ah GW, never change.


Between *tight hamstrings* and back passing the ball to Messi on the edge of our defence, I'm quite satisfied seeing yet another one of our supposed stars, bottling it just as we have for the last half decade.

Fabregas:

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“Football is unjust sometimes. But if there’s one way you want to lose, it’s like this, being true to our style. Chelsea’s playing style damaged us, we were far superior and we created chances.”

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Man up, bruv.

It's not unjust. Had you stuck your chances away in the first leg, you'd be in the final.

He's a muppet. He's made for the English league not the Spanish league. He's a power player not one of those tippy-tappy players. The style of football he's suited for is the type of stuff Chelsea play so don't know why he's so overdefensive about playing football 'the way it's meant to be played'.

He's like a bender in the closet acting homophobic so people think he's straight. Like Cripps.

You're a pub-teamer. There's no shame in it. If you want to be an elite footballer, you need to play in England. You're not good enough to be Spanish.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Fabregas:

He's like a bender in the closet acting homophobic so people think he's straight. Like Cripps.

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:haha: