What is stalling Theo??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

if he signs a contract, he'll play a lot more than he is now - wenger likes him but is showing tough love now. he has racked up more than enough appearances and his stats will ensure he is the prime wide man on most occasions.

there is nowhere bar a huge drop down the league for him to go - unless he wants to take several steps back in terms of playing time to become a bit part striker in a big team, its midtable or bust.

---

Or Europe. Whether he's technically good enough is another matter though.

RVP played as a striker for us from the get go. He wasn't an out an out striker, used to play deeper, but he was always a striker and not playing on the wings for us, where he struggled. RVP's intelligence or ability were never under constant scrutiny. It was just his fitness. Theo's right not to trust Wenger on this because he's the type of manager that is quite happy to play a player out of position until they totally break down and lose confidence. See Eboue, see Vela, see Denilson, see Bendtner. Look at where he's playing Ramsey now and Gervinho. This is the way he works and I don't see that changing. He's signed wingers and strikers and that puts more pressure on Theo and he could find himself in a position where he's forever rated as an impact player. Not a striker or winger.

rvp used to be stuck out on the left of a 442.

look, if theo has no trust for a man that has developed him for 7 years then that says more about himself than wenger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

rvp used to be stuck out on the left of a 442.

look, if theo has no trust for a man that has developed him for 7 years then that says more about himself than wenger.

---

No he was not. He had a brief period where he played on the left in a 4-3-3 but he was never a left winger for us.

this is a side argument but you're wrong. we had a 442 back then, he used to be a left winger and was used there quite a lot but was very ineffective - he also used to start there for holland too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

rvp used to be stuck out on the left of a 442.

look, if theo has no trust for a man that has developed him for 7 years then that says more about himself than wenger.

---

I've got to question where you're coming from on this. Haven't we just seen a host of promising youth players chopped from the squad? Didn't they fail. Surely, Theo has to look at that and take it into consideration. Even the fans are questioning Wenger's judgement on players signed and his tactical choices. I'd say it says a lot more about Wenger's ability, which has come under intense scrutiny over the past year or so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But he's signed other wingers, strikers and is only offering Walcott squad money. The fact that Wenger has frozen out one of our best performers from the squad for so long suggests he thinks he's replaceable.

---

Athletic Bilbao have "frozen" Llorente out of the team, does it mean they don't rate him then. Just like Theo until he signs a deal he won't be played, cause, they won't want him in the team just for him to bugger of in a few months.

Find it funny because people said, we should have kept RVP and if he was not happy put him in the reserves. Soon as the club get strict with theo its all complaints.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

this is a side argument but you're wrong. we had a 442 back then, he used to be a left winger and was used there quite a lot but was very ineffective - he also used to start there for holland too.

---

No he never used to start there for Holland either. He used to start on the right of a 4-3-3 for Holland under Van Basten.

RVP has always played behind the striker for us. He had one brief season where he played down the left but he never started there. We had Pires and Reyes in the squad when we were playing 4-4-2. Hleb and Diaby probably got more games down the left when we were playing 4-5-1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Athletic Bilbao have "frozen" Llorente out of the team, does it mean they don't rate him then. Just like Theo until he signs a deal he won't be played, cause, they won't want him in the team just for him to bugger of in a few months.

Find it funny because people said, we should have kept RVP and if he was not happy put him in the reserves. Soon as the club get strict with theo its all complaints.

---

You need to stop taking one sentence into consideration and start reading the whole argument.

I think Wenger would have no reason not to play Walcott as a central striker if Walcott genuinely is capable of being a prolific goalscorer for a top team. Say Theo signs a new contract - if we stand to benefit from Walcott playing as a striker then I'm sure Wenger would play him in that position.

At the moment, I think Walcott isn't being given a chance. There can be no footballing reasons why a seemingly in-form goalscorer is left out for a team that have struggled to score. Add to that the fact that Gervinho is now injured. So the reason I think Walcott is being left out is because Wenger feels although we would benefit in the short-term by having Walcott score a few goals for us, it will be another big psychological blow and we'd have to start again when he leaves in January. So Wenger thinks we should try to build some momentum and see if Giroud or Podolski or whoever can start finding the net regularly and then we might be on the up for the second half of the season with a settled squad.

I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the only way I think it makes sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

No he never used to start there for Holland either. He used to start on the right of a 4-3-3 for Holland under Van Basten.

RVP has always played behind the striker for us. He had one brief season where he played down the left but he never started there. We had Pires and Reyes in the squad when we were playing 4-4-2. Hleb and Diaby probably got more games down the left when we were playing 4-5-1.

---

The point being...

Wenger converted RvC to a natural striker when there was nobody else suitable to fill that role. Now we have the fewest striking options available in years and Theo, claiming he wants to be a striker, is sitting the season out. It makes no sense at all. This is his biggest opportunity to get what he claims he wants. The way he's behaving you'd almost think it was really just about the money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

No he never used to start there for Holland either. He used to start on the right of a 4-3-3 for Holland under Van Basten.

RVP has always played behind the striker for us. He had one brief season where he played down the left but he never started there. We had Pires and Reyes in the squad when we were playing 4-4-2. Hleb and Diaby probably got more games down the left when we were playing 4-5-1.

---

"He can play on the left side of midfield, as a creative player behind the main strikers or as a target man." wenger

just look for van persie left wing and you'll find a million references

i remember just as clearly myself

as nq says, he was converted from a wide player into a second striker and THEN a striker that could do it by himself - the latter when he was 28. theo can try about 'late development' or knuckle down and get on with. you don't get preference until you earn it.

last comment because this doesn't matter too much

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

I think Walcott is being left out is because Wenger feels although we would benefit in the short-term by having Walcott score a few goals for us, it will be another big psychological blow and we'd have to start again when he leaves in January. So Wenger thinks we should try to build some momentum and see if Giroud or Podolski or whoever can start finding the net regularly and then we might be on the up for the second half of the season with a settled squad. I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the only way I think it makes sense.

---

:gp:

You know it makes sense Rodney you know it makes sense :coffee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I've got to question where you're coming from on this. Haven't we just seen a host of promising youth players chopped from the squad? Didn't they fail. Surely, Theo has to look at that and take it into consideration. Even the fans are questioning Wenger's judgement on players signed and his tactical choices. I'd say it says a lot more about Wenger's ability, which has come under intense scrutiny over the past year or so.

---

you work with someone for 7 years, they play you most weeks and help develop your career - so there has to be trust there. the jokers that got chopped never got the same attention, protection and focus little Feo has for years and if he can't see that then he's an idiot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

I think Wenger would have no reason not to play Walcott as a central striker if Walcott genuinely is capable of being a prolific goalscorer for a top team. Say Theo signs a new contract - if we stand to benefit from Walcott playing as a striker then I'm sure Wenger would play him in that position.

At the moment, I think Walcott isn't being given a chance. There can be no footballing reasons why a seemingly in-form goalscorer is left out for a team that have struggled to score. Add to that the fact that Gervinho is now injured. So the reason I think Walcott is being left out is because Wenger feels although we would benefit in the short-term by having Walcott score a few goals for us, it will be another big psychological blow and we'd have to start again when he leaves in January. So Wenger thinks we should try to build some momentum and see if Giroud or Podolski or whoever can start finding the net regularly and then we might be on the up for the second half of the season with a settled squad.

I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the only way I think it makes sense.

---

And maybe because he's finally figured these players out having been fucked over one too many times. He's human, it must kill him to watch that **** RvC running to the lame and forgetful Utd fans to be worshipped. Henry, gone. Fabregas, gone. RvC, gone. Theo's not even in the same class so why elevate him? Just keep the ungrateful, greedy twat on the bench. And that's the real difference, there's no captaincy being rolled out for Theo Walcott. No team being built around him. He's not and never has been a central figure because he's never delivered at the very top level, never put himself on the same platform as the genuine stars of the game.

If anything Theo has clambered on Wenger's back to get to where he is today. A free invite into the England squad, blew it. The adoration of the fans and a thousand and one changes to impress, blew it. Now the guy is sitting there demanding a reward for his mediocrity and insisting he decides where he plays rather than the manager. Who would put up with that from a Theo Walcott after the real players have already stabbed you in the back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

"He can play on the left side of midfield, as a creative player behind the main strikers or as a target man." wenger

just look for van persie left wing and you'll find a million references

i remember just as clearly myself

as nq says, he was converted from a wide player into a second striker and THEN a striker that could do it by himself - the latter when he was 28. theo can try about 'late development' or knuckle down and get on with. you don't get preference until you earn it.

last comment because this doesn't matter too much

---

He was a winger before he joined us but was played in the Bergkamp role when he joined and numerous comparisons were made to Bergkamp. RVP wasn't a winger for Arsenal. For Feynoord he was a winger but not for us and in early days when coming on off the bench, he'd in and around the box, playing the Bergkamp role and never hugging the touchline like a winger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

you work with someone for 7 years, they play you most weeks and help develop your career - so there has to be trust there. the jokers that got chopped never got the same attention, protection and focus little Feo has for years and if he can't see that then he's an idiot.

---

Do you trust Wenger's judgment to get us back winning things after watching us for 7 years?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And maybe because he's finally figured these players out having been fucked over one too many times. He's human, it must kill him to watch that **** RvC running to the lame and forgetful Utd fans to be worshipped. Henry, gone. Fabregas, gone. RvC, gone. Theo's not even in the same class so why elevate him? Just keep the ungrateful, greedy twat on the bench. And that's the real difference, there's no captaincy being rolled out for Theo Walcott. No team being built around him. He's not and never has been a central figure because he's never delivered at the very top level, never put himself on the same platform as the genuine stars of the game.

If anything Theo has clambered on Wenger's back to get to where he is today. A free invite into the England squad, blew it. The adoration of the fans and a thousand and one changes to impress, blew it. Now the guy is sitting there demanding a reward for his mediocrity and insisting he decides where he plays rather than the manager. Who would put up with that from a Theo Walcott after the real players have already stabbed you in the back?

---

Be that as it may, Wenger has lost his right to credibly take a stand. His chance was this summer and he blew it. I hope it hurts him every time RVP scores. He deserves it for being a sell-out himself. He has no right to complain about greed in football because he is figurehead for the biggest corporate raping in football right now.

More to the point though, I agree that Theo hasn't proven anything. And I agree he isn't 'worth' being our highest paid player. But we don't know the salaries being offered to judge either way. What we do know is that Walcott is 23. He is now at the age where players start to produce good performances consistently. He was a kid before. We had little right to expect much more. Same with Ramsey now...don't expect more. Right now he's getting his head down and on the limited occasions he has played, he is doing his job. My point is not that we should cry over Walcott leaving but that he can't really be 'punished' for anything football-related. For wanting more money than he's worth, perhaps, but again, we don't know the specifics to judge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

Be that as it may, Wenger has lost his right to credibly take a stand. His chance was this summer and he blew it. I hope it hurts him every time RVP scores. He deserves it for being a sell-out himself. He has no right to complain about greed in football because he is figurehead for the biggest corporate raping in football right now.

More to the point though, I agree that Theo hasn't proven anything. And I agree he isn't 'worth' being our highest paid player. But we don't know the salaries being offered to judge either way. What we do know is that Walcott is 23. He is now at the age where players start to produce good performances consistently. He was a kid before. We had little right to expect much more. Same with Ramsey now...don't expect more. Right now he's getting his head down and on the limited occasions he has played, he is doing his job. My point is not that we should cry over Walcott leaving but that he can't really be 'punished' for anything football-related. For wanting more money than he's worth, perhaps, but again, we don't know the specifics to judge.

---

I'm not excusing Wenger and I also wonder why it has taken him so long to figure out what these players are all about. He seems naive in the extreme in this respect. Theo's playing for his next contract, isn't he? And it's not with us. Seen it before, RvC gave the master class. Won't have escaped Theo's notice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

Be that as it may, Wenger has lost his right to credibly take a stand. His chance was this summer and he blew it. I hope it hurts him every time RVP scores. He deserves it for being a sell-out himself. He has no right to complain about greed in football because he is figurehead for the biggest corporate raping in football right now.

More to the point though, I agree that Theo hasn't proven anything. And I agree he isn't 'worth' being our highest paid player. But we don't know the salaries being offered to judge either way. What we do know is that Walcott is 23. He is now at the age where players start to produce good performances consistently. He was a kid before. We had little right to expect much more. Same with Ramsey now...don't expect more. Right now he's getting his head down and on the limited occasions he has played, he is doing his job. My point is not that we should cry over Walcott leaving but that he can't really be 'punished' for anything football-related. For wanting more money than he's worth, perhaps, but again, we don't know the specifics to judge.

---

:gp:

This is where it gets a bit childish and contradictions crop up. Wenger is no victim and he's been the spokesperson the the long con for years now. He's not getting fucked over by anyone. As for the Board, they have a history of lying and misleading fans so I don't trust them when it comes to contract talks because we have lost too many players because of this nonsense.

And I don't get why people would argue for Theo to sign a contract and then double back and say he's 'shit anyway' if he doesn't sign.

Quote:

---

And I don't get why people would argue for Theo to sign a contract and then double back and say he's 'shit anyway' if he doesn't sign.

---

I'm surprised you don't get that because it was you who invented it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I'm surprised you don't get that because it was you who invented it.

---

:lol: Childish response.

You know it's a huge contradiction.

A lot of people, you included, question the direction the club is going in and even question Wenger's judgement on certain players, but in this argument, you're saying Wenger knows what's best for Theo. You go as far as to say Wenger converted RVP into a striker but in a few posts down, double back and then say Theo isn't even in the same class as such players. If that's true, do you really think Wenger can get Theo to level we need as a striker? He hasn't been able to that with players like Bendy, Vela, Denilson, JET...etc.

Without even having all the details, you accuse Theo of being greedy but you already know this club is quite happy to make a pretty penny wherever they can. Just a lot of contradictions in your argument and things haven't been thought through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:lol: Childish response.

You know it's a huge contradiction.

A lot of people, you included, question the direction the club is going in and even question Wenger's judgement on certain players, but in this argument, you're saying Wenger knows what's best for Theo. You go as far as to say Wenger converted RVP into a striker but in a few posts down, double back and then say Theo isn't even in the same class as such players. If that's true, do you really think Wenger can get Theo to level we need as a striker? He hasn't been able to that with players like Bendy, Vela, Denilson, JET...etc.

Without even having all the details, you accuse Theo of being greedy but you already know this club is quite happy to make a pretty penny wherever they can. Just a lot of contradictions in your argument and things haven't been thought through.

---

Your selective interpretation and readiness to subvert what has actually been said is noted. You take responses to your own unreasonable arguments, remove your input and then apply a different context to the responses. Nowhere above do you even closely represent what I have argued.

Of course I question the direction the club is going in, in fact I'd go a lot further and say I condemn the direction. But that doesn't give Theo Walcott a free pass. Agreed, I don't rate Walcott in the same class as the top players we've had at the club, but that wasn't my argument. I said his opportunity has never been greater because he's not up against a van Persie or Henry, his competition is Gervinho and Giroud. We are as light in the striker department as we have ever been.

I never placed the emphasis on Wenger at all, it's Theo Walcott that has the point to prove, not Wenger (in this case). You claim I haven't thought things through but you are already ten miles down the road on what Theo thinks and what his reasons are, yet you have no reference points on which to base any of these claims. All we know is he wants to play up front and he wants £100K. That's what I have based my arguments on. Not some theory about Theo being worried about his potential, or his ambitions or any of the other conjectures that have no public facts whatsoever underpinning them. I don't claim to have all the details, but I do at least have SOME details. You pad out the details with pure speculation and then explain how you understand where the player is coming from.

Of course Walcott is greedy. He wants £100K A WEEK FFS! What's YOUR definition of greedy? Let's just accept he's a greedy bastard, like most of them. Not sure why you even argue against this. You know the world is mad when £100K a week is viewed as restrained.

My argument is simple and without contradiction. If Walcott wants in then let him sign. If not then let him fuck off. If he wants to sit there making demands then let him. But why I am I required to go crawling after him? We have you to do that, don't need me too surely? Why can't I call him a greedy, disruptive ****? That's what he is, isn't he? And if not, what is he?

I didn't say he was shite either, I said he was inconsistent. And again, if you are arguing against this reality then what can anyone do? He's a tremendously inconsistent player, both over the course of the season and in individual matches. All I have said is you can get that level of inconsistency for a lot cheaper. Of course, we won't spend the money buying true talent, we know that. So Theo Walcott, some other second tier player, what's the difference?

I think you'll find there is no inconsistency in my argument though. I am being crystal clear. It's Walcott's message that makes no sense. He demands to be the striker, says he wants to stay, and then refuses to sign a contract. It leads me to conclude it's all about money because that's the sensible conclusion. Of course I could be wrong. Theo could be different to all the other ****s who have gone before him. I wonder though. What are the real chances of that?

The most important thing about all of this other than NQ being wrong as usual (Theo being greedy? :haha:) is that NQ finally uses paragraphs

:bow:

Touched a nerve. :lol:

The reports of £100k can't be confirmed. It's all specualtion from the papers so that is where your argument falls down because it's not fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Touched a nerve. :lol:

The reports of £100k can't be confirmed. It's all specualtion from the papers so that is where your argument falls down because it's not fact.

---

No, you were schooled, there's a big difference and sometimes it's necessary.

But to make it even simpler.

The manager decides if and where players will play. Not Theo Walcott.

The board decides how much the players will be paid, and if the player doesn't accept the offer he can go elsewhere for more (provided nobody has the cheek to say he is moving for money, of course)

And yes, roll in greedy owners and the fans lose as usual.

Greedy owners + greedy players = shit hitting the fans

Nothing else to see here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Do you trust Wenger's judgment to get us back winning things after watching us for 7 years?

---

I'm not sure why you want to compare my distant, speculative relationship with theo's close, informative one.

Good feud.

Still a level down from GW's greatest but there's some good potential here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Good feud.

Still a level down from GW's greatest but there's some good potential here.

---

Have not seen one like it since i have been on here. :popcorn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

No, you were schooled, there's a big difference and sometimes it's necessary.

But to make it even simpler.

The manager decides if and where players will play. Not Theo Walcott.

The board decides how much the players will be paid, and if the player doesn't accept the offer he can go elsewhere for more (provided nobody has the cheek to say he is moving for money, of course)

And yes, roll in greedy owners and the fans lose as usual.

Greedy owners + greedy players = shit hitting the fans

Nothing else to see here.

---

Schooled! Yeah. :lol:

Yeah, the manage decides where players play but it's not always the correct decision. We've said this in the past on numerous occasions. We can't keep playing square pegs in round holes and expect success. If you are going to now argue that Theo should just accept Wenger's judgement, then I'm saying that contradicts what's been said in the past about Wenger's tactical judgment. You say Theo is inconsistent and maybe that has something to do with him playing out wide in a new position. You can say fuck it, he has to do what he is told, but then we're in this constant loop that never gets resolved and you'll continue to bash players for being inconsistent.

Yeah, we know the Board pay what they want but they are quite happy to offer competitive wages to Wenger and Gazidis but won't do it for the playing staff. The money in football is obscene, but there is a benchmark an standard for certain players. Theo is an international with champions league experience. We don't know for sure what he's been offered or asking for, but he should probably earn roughly the same amount that an international with CL experience should earn. And you are right, he can move if he's not happy with the offer and it's not as if he's in the wrong with how he has behaved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

I'm not sure why you want to compare my distant, speculative relationship with theo's close, informative one.

---

Because from a distance, you're able to question the logic in some of Wenger's decisions. We do it all the time on here. Up close and with inside knowledge, I wouldn't be surprised if Theo is doing the same. He's not the first either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Schooled! Yeah. :lol:

Yeah, the manage decides where players play but it's not always the correct decision. We've said this in the past on numerous occasions. We can't keep playing square pegs in round holes and expect success. If you are going to now argue that Theo should just accept Wenger's judgement, then I'm saying that contradicts what's been said in the past about Wenger's tactical judgment. You say Theo is inconsistent and maybe that has something to do with him playing out wide in a new position. You can say fuck it, he has to do what he is told, but then we're in this constant loop that never gets resolved and you'll continue to bash players for being inconsistent.

Yeah, we know the Board pay what they want but they are quite happy to offer competitive wages to Wenger and Gazidis but won't do it for the playing staff. The money in football is obscene, but there is a benchmark an standard for certain players. Theo is an international with champions league experience. We don't know for sure what he's been offered or asking for, but he should probably earn roughly the same amount that an international with CL experience should earn. And you are right, he can move if he's not happy with the offer and it's not as if he's in the wrong with how he has behaved.

---

Schooled as in keeping you honest, I don't doubt your ability to make an intelligent argument but I just don't understand what this Theo thing is all about and why you would go to such extremes to protect your position.

I have already said I'd be delighted to be wrong, but you can't ignore that 100% track record of our board and the mercenaries kissing the badge. As for Wenger, it's his job to be right or wrong about the team selection. We, as fans, can slate him for it if we want. But the players need to accept it because they are taking cash not giving it out. If Theo wants to be a manager then he should do that instead.

And let's be clear. It's a damn sight easier to play the wide role than be the main man in the centre. If Theo can't master a walk in the park why do we give credibility to the idea he can suddenly jump two notches to the main role? Do we just assume it? Do we just take Theo at his word, when he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his play? Yeah, he can be effective - sometimes. He can be anonymous too. Maybe Wenger wants more than that from his front man. Granted, it makes no sense playing Gervinho in that case and it's understandable how Walcott and the fans can be frustrated about that. Which is why it's inexplicable that Theo is not in there pitching. Who's to say if he wasn't in dispute right now and was instead putting in the performances he wouldn't already be playing up top as an easy alternative to the ludicrous Gervinho?

Walcott can't stake a claim from the negotiating table, can he? He has to be on the pitch to do that.

He should sign. Get on the pitch. Grab what he wants through football instead of a cockroach agent. He was shaping up to be the exception to the rule. The young kid with talent and his feet on the ground. Now he's behaving like the perfect example of the rule. Let the agent do the talking and fuck the club, fuck the fans if he doesn't get his way. I'm not buying into that for a second.

I have no problem buying into Walcott if he gets on the pitch and shows us why he should be the main man though. Whining bastard gets the thumbs down from me. Committed player giving it 100% for the team will ALWAYS get my support. The latter is the bare minimum.

Yeah, Theo has played well for England twice and he's been rolled out to mixed effect in the CL on a regular basis (Thank You Arsenal - not Fuck You Arsenal, btw), we did indeed present him with many opportunities to shine. He's delivered a second tier return. Good enough for the big money? In the lunatic asylums in Manchester and Chavland, maybe. At Arsenal, dream on, we wouldn't even pay RvC the big money so Theo has zero chance. Surely he knows this? But then again, it's not about the money, is it Theo? Of course not.

I'm gutted still about RvC fucking us. Won't ever have an ounce of respect for a professional (as in WHORE) footballer again. I'll be indifferent if the hot and cold Walcott goes. But I'd like him to stay and deliver. He can't do that hiding behind his agent though. Has to be on the pitch to deliver. Wherever on the pitch that happens to be.

I'm a world class striker worth £100K myself, because I say so. That said, I'd play in goal if given the chance. Okay, so that's a joke but, like everyone, I am better than Gareth Barry and no that doesn't entitle me to £100K a week or even a decent fucking living wage a week it seems. It all depends on circumstances and right now Theo is trying to be a Man City player at Arsenal which is just dumb and unrealistic and yes, fucking greedy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I'm a world class striker worth £100K myself, because I say so. That said, I'd play in goal if given the chance. Okay, so that's a joke but, like everyone, I am better than Gareth Barry and no that doesn't entitle me to £100K a week or even a decent fucking living wage a week it seems. It all depends on circumstances and right now Theo is trying to be a Man City player at Arsenal which is just dumb and unrealistic and yes, fucking greedy
.

---

N_Q :bow:.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Because from a distance, you're able to question the logic in some of Wenger's decisions. We do it all the time on here. Up close and with inside knowledge, I wouldn't be surprised if Theo is doing the same. He's not the first either.

---

you are missing my point. theo will be questioning things but what i have said throughout this conversation is that after 7 years working side by side, he will also have a lot more trust in wenger than anything else. he has had far more attention than any other of the youth projects (bar fabregas) and if theo thought that faith wasn't there, he wouldn't have waited until the last year of his contract to go. he'd be long off by now as question marks over wenger have been there for quite some time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

N_Q :bow:.

---

:gp:

Meade:haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Schooled as in keeping you honest, I don't doubt your ability to make an intelligent argument but I just don't understand what this Theo thing is all about and why you would go to such extremes to protect your position.

I have already said I'd be delighted to be wrong, but you can't ignore that 100% track record of our board and the mercenaries kissing the badge. As for Wenger, it's his job to be right or wrong about the team selection. We, as fans, can slate him for it if we want. But the players need to accept it because they are taking cash not giving it out. If Theo wants to be a manager then he should do that instead.

And let's be clear. It's a damn sight easier to play the wide role than be the main man in the centre. If Theo can't master a walk in the park why do we give credibility to the idea he can suddenly jump two notches to the main role? Do we just assume it? Do we just take Theo at his word, when he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his play? Yeah, he can be effective - sometimes. He can be anonymous too. Maybe Wenger wants more than that from his front man. Granted, it makes no sense playing Gervinho in that case and it's understandable how Walcott and the fans can be frustrated about that. Which is why it's inexplicable that Theo is not in there pitching. Who's to say if he wasn't in dispute right now and was instead putting in the performances he wouldn't already be playing up top as an easy alternative to the ludicrous Gervinho?

Walcott can't stake a claim from the negotiating table, can he? He has to be on the pitch to do that.

He should sign. Get on the pitch. Grab what he wants through football instead of a cockroach agent. He was shaping up to be the exception to the rule. The young kid with talent and his feet on the ground. Now he's behaving like the perfect example of the rule. Let the agent do the talking and fuck the club, fuck the fans if he doesn't get his way. I'm not buying into that for a second.

I have no problem buying into Walcott if he gets on the pitch and shows us why he should be the main man though. Whining bastard gets the thumbs down from me. Committed player giving it 100% for the team will ALWAYS get my support. The latter is the bare minimum.

Yeah, Theo has played well for England twice and he's been rolled out to mixed effect in the CL on a regular basis (Thank You Arsenal - not Fuck You Arsenal, btw), we did indeed present him with many opportunities to shine. He's delivered a second tier return. Good enough for the big money? In the lunatic asylums in Manchester and Chavland, maybe. At Arsenal, dream on, we wouldn't even pay RvC the big money so Theo has zero chance. Surely he knows this? But then again, it's not about the money, is it Theo? Of course not.

I'm gutted still about RvC fucking us. Won't ever have an ounce of respect for a professional (as in WHORE) footballer again. I'll be indifferent if the hot and cold Walcott goes. But I'd like him to stay and deliver. He can't do that hiding behind his agent though. Has to be on the pitch to deliver. Wherever on the pitch that happens to be.

I'm a world class striker worth £100K myself, because I say so. That said, I'd play in goal if given the chance. Okay, so that's a joke but, like everyone, I am better than Gareth Barry and no that doesn't entitle me to £100K a week or even a decent fucking living wage a week it seems. It all depends on circumstances and right now Theo is trying to be a Man City player at Arsenal which is just dumb and unrealistic and yes, fucking greedy.

---

It's not just with Theo. If you check my history, you will that I've been upset with the way the club has handled dealings with RVP, Song, Nasri, Cesc...I'm just tired of them selling out all the time and selling off our players and for me, this is one of the biggest reasons why we can't win anything. There is no point in talking about the Board raping the club and then argue that the players shouldn't expect the industry standard when it comes to wages. Paying them below the standard when we're not winning trophies yet Wenger, Gazidis and Board members can get paid an amount that is line with there peers is nonsense. If we want to keep our players then we need to start offering a better cash incentive to stay. We don't know for certain if the reports of £100k are true but if it were it's hardly going to kill us. The club have to update their wage policy because we'll be having this same discussion with future players if they keep it up. You keep talking about greed but keep ignoring the above points I've just made. How are we going to progress if we don't update and outdated policy?

Also, so far we have had three players that have flat out refused to sign another deal with the club. They have done their time and it's a thanks but no thanks situation. Begrudge a player for trying to worm his way out a club be causing strife in the dressing and courting the attention of the big clubs, but when a player's has contract talks, he has a right to sign or not sign. They're within there rights to hold out for the best deal. Like it or not. Plus, the club should be willing to show how much they value a players service and it's obvious that they don't and will continue to do things on the cheap. I can't respect that and instead of constantly whining about the players, you have to look at the club and where their priorities lie.

Quote:

---

And let's be clear. It's a damn sight easier to play the wide role than be the main man in the centre. If Theo can't master a walk in the park why do we give credibility to the idea he can suddenly jump two notches to the main role? Do we just assume it? Do we just take Theo at his word, when he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his play? Yeah, he can be effective - sometimes. He can be anonymous too. Maybe Wenger wants more than that from his front man. Granted, it makes no sense playing Gervinho in that case and it's understandable how Walcott and the fans can be frustrated about that. Which is why it's inexplicable that Theo is not in there pitching. Who's to say if he wasn't in dispute right now and was instead putting in the performances he wouldn't already be playing up top as an easy alternative to the ludicrous Gervinho?

---

That really is naive argument. Centreback is a harder position than wingback, so surely a centreback should be able to play that role easily right? It doesn't work like that. And this is the loop I keep talking about. You're asking for the sort of consistency that no other winger in our squad has delivered since we were winning titles. And he's still a kid. Nobody in our squad delivers a consistent performance in any position. So the expectation levels are way too high. Not even his peers that play out wide deliver at that level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

you are missing my point. theo will be questioning things but what i have said throughout this conversation is that after 7 years working side by side, he will also have a lot more trust in wenger than anything else. he has had far more attention than any other of the youth projects (bar fabregas) and if theo thought that faith wasn't there, he wouldn't have waited until the last year of his contract to go. he'd be long off by now as question marks over wenger have been there for quite some time.

---

RVP ran down his contract and left under similar circumstances and he was with the club for 8 years. Cesc lost faith in Wenger too, Also, Theo makes a good point about Thierry Henry. He was playing as a striker at Theo's age so if Wenger is trying to follow that pattern, then shouldn't Theo get his shot? It's actually more respectful just to decline all contract offers rather than kick up a fuss half way through a deal. The frustration has probably been bubbling away for years but the sales of key players, bad seasons and empty promises have probably taken their toll.

money.

if you gave him the 125k a week he wants he'd have signed long ago.

we offered 75k.

he said no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

RVP ran down his contract and left under similar circumstances and he was with the club for 8 years. Cesc lost faith in Wenger too, Also, Theo makes a good point about Thierry Henry. He was playing as a striker at Theo's age so if Wenger is trying to follow that pattern, then shouldn't Theo get his shot? It's actually more respectful just to decline all contract offers rather than kick up a fuss half way through a deal. The frustration has probably been bubbling away for years but the sales of key players, bad seasons and empty promises have probably taken their toll.

---

Well if both lost faith with Wenger then they are very misleading with their comments about him now, both seem to love him. Cesc said he was leaving cause he wanted to go home did he not or was he lying. RvC was pissed of with the way he feels he was treated in the last few months, b.y the club.

If Theo was this unhappy a few years ago then its simple hand in a tranfer request and ak for a move. He did not seem to care a few years ago when you'd see him laughing and joking with the likes of Song, Eboue etc. If he was frustated then he did well to hide it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Well if both lost faith with Wenger then they are very misleading with their comments about him now, both seem to love him. Cesc said he was leaving cause he wanted to go home did he not or was he lying. RvC was pissed of with the way he feels he was treated in the last few months, buy the club.

If Theo was this unhappy a few years ago then its simple hand in a tranfer request and ak for a move. He did not seem to care a few years ago when you'd see him laughing and joking with the likes of Song, Eboue etc. If he was frustated then he did well to hide it.

---

That doesn't make sense at all.