We'd choke as usual. We went to the UEFA Cup final against Galatasaray and flopped. I just want Wenger gone so we can have a fresh chapter. We've stagnated for too long and it's catching up on us.
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We'd choke as usual. We went to the UEFA Cup final against Galatasaray and flopped. I just want Wenger gone so we can have a fresh chapter. We've stagnated for too long and it's catching up on us.
:doh: That was in 2000, way before we were known for choking.
We battered them in that game and had 'one of those days'.
I don't think one year out of the CL would be as big a disaster as some are making out and I don't think it would be a one way trip and we'd never get back in the top 4. We've got enough history of qualifying to suggest that with the right signings in the summer we'd be up there again even if we don't finish top 4 this year.
Where's our history of the "right signings in the summer"? - Man Utd will have to buy big & they will, If City lose out they'll buy the best, The ambition at Liverpool is clear to see, they will strengthen defensively & probably buy another quality midfielder & ofcourse Maureen will be spending Roman's money to bring in a world class forward-line. If Wenger has his usual summer of under priced bids, not meeting wage demands etc, we will struggle for 5th place next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We don't have much of a history of right signings, granted, but we clearly tried to get Suarez last summer and we did get Ozil who, for all his patchy form, is clearly a great player and is by some distance the most ambitious signing we've made for ages. The new commercial deals are in place so we should be able to continue that.
We led the table for a long time this year, we're looking poor right now but I don't believe we're suddenly a bad side. I think we'll be OK next year.
We had a rep for choking in Europe during that period and competing in lesser competition didn't help our nerves even though we had some great players. What makes you think we'd fair any better when this 'choking' problem has grown worse and we have lesser players than we did years before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Who said I thought we'd fare any better?
Then what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
My point is you asserting we'd 'choke as usual', and using something that happened 14 years ago as backup, is pretty spurious.
I don't think so. When we were bossing the Premier League, the talk of the town was about our poor CL league performances. We'd hardly ever turn up and pressure got to us. Going to a lesser competition won't settle the nerves and if that was true 14 years ago when we had a team of title winners, it's even more true today with our frail and mentally weak team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We've actually done better in the CL since that era. Yes, we're consistently losing to the real European giants but this year we got through a tough group. Against a lesser calibre of opposition in the Europa League I reckon we'd do OK.
Yes, like we've done okay in the League Cup final against Birmingham or scraping through against Wigan on Penalties? Lesser calibre makes no difference if you can't control your nerves. We've gotten better in Europe when the pressure isn't on but fumble it when the pressure is turned back on. We should have topped our group this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Contolled our nerves pretty well during the penalties.
It's Wigan! A league one side. It shouldn't have got to penalties. It's not even the final. It's foolish to think we'd fair better in that competition in light of the last few years. The Europa League will have tougher teams. Atletico won that competition, Juve are still in it. It's no walk in the park.
So penalties aren't a high pressure situation?
:doh: Are you serious? Wigan, Letters! Wigan!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We should have had that won in 90 minutes.
OK. I'll try that again. See if you can have a shot at answering this time:
Penalties in an FA Cup semi-final. Is that a high pressure situation?
It's a pretty simple yes/no question really :shrug:
EDIT: Is that the same Wigan who beat City in the final last year and again in the quarters this year...?
Yes, that's high pressure. But should it have gone to penalties? Should we be struggling against Wigan in a cup game? No! The Europa Cup won't be a walk in the park just because of lesser opposition. It shouldn't take this long to explain this to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I don't think the Europa Cup will be a walk in the park. But we've done pretty well in the CL against the lesser sides, it's generally only been when we've played a Barca or a Bayern when we've come unstuck. I think we'd do OK.
And no, of course we shouldn't be taken to penalties by Wigan. Wigan shouldn't be beating City in the final or the quarter final but these things happen in football.
Birmingham league cup final? Dropping from 1st to 5th in the league? It happens way to often against us and I don't think competing in the Europa League will make a difference.
No point in mentioning City because they've won the League Cup and they're still in the title race.
Fine, but the Cup Final is a chance to get that monkey off our back.
If we don't then I despair but we should win it and if we do that could be a springboard to bigger things.
I'm not even sure the FA Cup win is enough to act as a springboard, especially if we drop out of the top 4.
You are a cheery soul :rolleyes:
Me either. The bare minimum is a top 4 place and the fa cup coupled by a summer of proper signings/squad building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I personally think even if we achieve top 4 place and cup win but have a summer of Wenger "low balling and dithering" the knives will be out in full force come the start of the season.
I personally want Wenger gone irrespective of what happens this season.
Any optimism that still exists in these parts should be dampened by the prospect of U know Who still being in charge. If a situation can be choked, he will find a way. Next summer he still wont buy what's needed. He will instead be driven by the need to prove that this season was a fluke, stick with the same players and stick with the same methods. Anyone who thinks different clearly hasn't been watching closely these last 10 years. Blame injuries and whatever, anything but changing course.
I have little hang up about trying to win the Europa league like you as it is another trophy and isn't met with the ridicule, abroad, it is often encounters on these shores. My main concern is that I hear from starting a campaign to winning the thing takes something approaching 20 games. That's takes our games tally to almost 60 games without even counting Capital one cup or FA cup games. I shudder to imagine it with a squad with our injury record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I don't think one year out of the CL is a hugely big deal myself, if you take that in isolation. If you start the league well the following year and are top or thereabouts you tend to be taken seriously in spite of not being in the CL. Liverpool have alarmingly proved that and we have heard very little from the Suarez camp about the fact he isn't playing CL football or even the fact that prick John W Henry lied about the clause in his contract.
FA Cup would be good, we play CL football every year and apart from a handful of games it is pretty boring. Its also not like we use the money from CL football or the prestige from CL football to benefit the team in anyway. The signings havent been top drawer for a long while (apart Ozil), so if we finish 5th will it really make any difference to our spending plans. Perhaps it might actually spark something into life with a desire to get back in the CL giving the club something to strive and improve on.
Totally agree mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
That's how I feel. I just think it's time for Wenger to step down. When he continues to say 'buying isn't the answer' and 'we're unlucky with injuries', I just think we're setting ourselves up for more of the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I agree with that too. Not much optimism for next season if he's still in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
What do you expect? Should I be convinced by anything I've seen this season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
A month ago I'd have said yes, I never expected us to win the league but we seemed to be showing clear progress. We were up there and winning some games which last year we'd definitely have dropped points in. I'm not sure if the collapse has been a case of us 'bottling' it or just running out of steam and a weak squad failing to cope with a few key injuries have caused us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
As unconvincing as the semi-final was in any Cup run where will be games where it's tight and could have gone the other way. Last time we won it Sheffield Utd drew at Highbury, took us to a replay which we won on penalties. You need a bit of luck sometimes in the cup.
If we win the FA Cup then it gets this monkey off our back about not winning trophies. The league season has been a weird one with some very promising signs and some very worrying ones.
Things aren't all rosy, but it's not all doom and gloom either.
We always have promising signs each season but do very little to address the major issues. A win in the FA Cup would be a great send off for Wenger.
I agree with the season being a wierd one. After buying Ozil, with Rambo & Giroud scoring goals we looked good, progressing defensively & during this time Walcott was out injured. We were purring at the thought of Walcott's pace matched with Ozil's asists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As Walcott came back to fitness, we were in our tough period of games against Utd,Everton, Chelsea, City & Napoli. Wenger had started to shit himself & play too defensively. This meant he didn't play Walcott at times & Ozil was asked to become Lee Cattermole. Then as we came out of this period without Rambo & the teams & Ozil's confidence shredded thanks to Wenger's negativity, Walcott then goes & gets injured again. Never mind, we had the whole of the January window to make sure we got some pace & goalscoring ability upfront, we had lost Rambo & Walcott (our main goal threats) & Giroud had turned into Bendtner - there's no way on earth a man who knows what he's doing & is paid £7 mill a year because he's so good couldn't see this & wouldn't act - the rest is history & we are where we are.
Good summary. Wenger's negativity and fear has increased over the season and our results and performances have declined in direct proportion. In trying to keep a thin squad fit and available he's killed our game in the process. His fault for not taking the steps necessary in the Jan window. The first game against Everton was a big turning point because our performance in that match was horrible compared to what we'd done before. Everyone said it was a good result to scrape a draw playing like an anti-Arsenal. Now look. We played that way ever since and giving up those 2 points is now reflected neatly in the table. The mentality fostered in that game finally manifested itself in a shocking performance and defeat in the return match. Boom, 6 easy points gone to our routine bitches with us playing so badly people have started to think Everton are actually any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Regarding the bit I have highlighted, the problem is NQ Wenger has always been like that. His philosophy seems to be about keeping a small squad of players together. This is all well and good when the said players have great fitness records but ours don't. A third of our first XI are crocks, they get crocked every single season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Even as far back as the invincibles, it was a fairly small squad of albeit World Class players that we used, our depth was better back then quality wise I will admit, but the squad was by no means deep.
I very much doubt Wenger will change regarding the Squad and it's make up, he will go into next season with a thin squad of players, it's just how he operates.
Two years ago, Wenger wanted to look at the reasons why we keep picking up so many injuries. Two years later he is saying the same thing.
It's obvious the training methods need changing but he will not do that. Raymond Verheijen had a go last week regarding the methods used which are backed up by the amount of injuries we get compared to other top teams.
Add to the fact that every season, whether it be defence, midfield, attack - there is always an area that is overlooked and ends up costing us dearly.
My view hasn't changed since last season, he needs to go, FA Cup/4th or not. The club needs a change as much as he does. The game is becoming younger and younger both in terms of players, coaches and managers and it's a route we need to get down onto.
Regardless of how much we spend next season Wenger is no longer capable of managing the squad sufficiently to get the best out of them across a whole season.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
got a link to the Raymond Verheijen article?
Yeah, in total agreement. They're still looking into the investigation but Wenger's personal theory ....supplements are causing the issue. Legal supplements like stuff to treat hair loss! I wish I was making this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...-arsene-wenger
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...s-9239876.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Maestro
We can spend as much as we want on players but if they keep getting injured - as they have done for years now, then nothing will change.
None of this is even taking into account Wenger's static approach to games. He's still a good manager but not of the calibre we need anymore.
:gp: The thing that concerns me now is the transition - and the ability of a Wenger institution to manage this properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano