They've swapped it with 'your face' instead :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Printable View
They've swapped it with 'your face' instead :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Tbf your face is a bit of a shit expression
I still do on the odd occasion tbh, tbf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
reading a few pages back, laudrup :lol:
half a good season with swansea and everyone's riding him. lets see how he does in his 2nd, 3rd even 4th year with them. we've seen this all before, a great start to the league or cup triumph then a monumental demise. his record since swansea won the carling cup:
WLLLDDL
and people want him here? :lol: based on what, half a good season with a team that was set up for him? :haha:
cant help but feel if he wasnt this suave character then people wouldnt be blowing him so much. if he looked like a gremlin from scotland people's perceptions would come down to reality.
That 'gremlin from Scotland' hasn't won anything though, so I don't really get the point. You go so far to deride Wenger at every opportunity, I don't really get why you're scoffing at other managers being suggested, you'd think anyone other than Wenger would be preferable to you.
i never made winning a trophy a prerequisite though. any manager clearly isnt acceptable, i wouldnt want someone like martinez here for example. i think moyes is the only 'tangent' solution i'd go for purely because of what he's done at everton, taken them from nowhere to somewhere. it would be similar to laudrup going to swansea years ago when nothing was set in place, languishing at the bottom of the league, then turning them into a consistent top 7 side all with no money. i think thats what makes moyes stand out. he clearly has something to be able to do that and if you give a manager two options: 1. win a trophy but go into a monumental demise 2. consistently finish in the top 7 in the premiership, they'd always take option 2, and so would their fans. what moyes has done has been far more impressive. as i said, lets see what laudrup does next season.
Obviously challenging in all competitions is the wish, of all fans but what is the necessary for the next manager then? Saying Moyes has taken Everton from nowhere to somewhere simplifies it slightly because it makes it sound like there have been no poor years, when he has had a few (2003/2004 and 2005/2006) for instance).
It's churlish to say he had everything set up for him there though, it rather suggests we should only ever be looking at managers that have taken a struggling club and improved upon them significantly. The odd thing is that you're laughing at Laudrup for doing the one thing you're clearly praising Moyes for - continuity! Continuity is a big thing I concede and continuing what may or may not have been there before is not the easy thing to do at a club that you seem to suggest it is.
You could be just as churlish and say Everton have been everpresents in the Premier League (though they've come very close to relegation before) and so having them as top seven, when there are seven of those teams in the Premier League is not a particularly great achievement. Looking at the table coldly and blankly you say Laudrup has taken a mid table side and...has them in midtable but he's done that and won something, which is huge for a club that has only been in the league for two seasons.
Moyes has reached a glass ceiling that he can't break, maybe that's based on financial limitations but as we've seen at Arsenal, I think it's a close minded way of looking at it. He has had multiple opportunities to be successful in that tangible way but has failed, on numerous occasions.
Your two point choice isn't neccesarily true. I'd have thought it would be but there are plenty of Birmingham supporters that would not give up their win against us, even though they have massive financial problems and haven't been doing particularly well in the Championship. In any case, praising Moyes for that is no different to Arsenal supporters beng ok with the continuity and safety Wenger gives us - someone you have patently made clear before you want rid of.
Moyes doesn't appeal at all. He's a better version of the infinite percentage managers recycled in the league. Drab football and not especially imaginative. Another one of those oop norf get amongst them they don't like it up em shitbags as well. Fuck him.
You have to look at what Laudrup does over a longer period of time than this. Right now he could be bracketed with several young managers and it's not like all of them will be successful at top clubs. He's been at a few clubs and even at Swansea there was doubt over whether he'd sign for a second season.
I have my doubts over Laudrup because I think he is probably too relaxed on physical condition, so I'd imagine we'd tire at the end of games rather than be the more likely ones to score. Of course, it could mean we don't see soporific peformances in the first half but there's no guarantee.
Can't deny the charisma and respect Laudrup would probably command though. He was an unbelievable player.
I don't want any manger from this league to replace wenger.
None of them are good enough IMO bar siralex an that is obviously a no go.
We need to be looking abroad for wengers replacement.
Kroenke out. Gazidis out. Then let's see.
Replacing Wenger with Moyes. :haha:
Regression. :bow:
Exactly. A senseless argument. We can't go from Wenger to David Moyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
With Laudrop, I can at least respect the way he sets his teams up to play football. Simple but beautiful and attacking football that doesn't require superstar players. Moyes has a different attitude and believes it's the superstar players that dictates the way a team plays. There is a fundamental difference to the way he thinks about football and what we've been building here with Wenger.
It also makes no sense to bash Wenger for being cautious and then holding up Moyes as a beacon of hope. He's won nothing but has a good record of balancing the books. It would be a serious worry if the Board were considering him. It would show where they place their priorities. Wenger preaches financial prudence but he also talks a lot about the beauty of the game, attacking football and youth development. I'd hope they'd consider that side as well when appointing a new coach.
do goal.com just get a list of our players, and a list of clubs, close their eyes, point at our player, then point at a club and make up a rumour about it?
like fuck we would sell kos. he signed a new deal last year plus he is our best defender
That site is awful, haven't been on it properly in around 5 years :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
But for the Kos deal, it'll happen if the price is right :geek:
Sell Kos for £20m
Get Williams for £5m
£15m profit = Winning
http://thisisfutbol.com/wp-content/u...gerSmiling.jpg
We win the profit making trophy :trophy:
but the concept of continuity between the two clubs differ; if you break it down into different typology then the meaning of continuity we attach to moyes is completely different to the meaning of continuity we attach to swansea. moyes done it all himself, he took a team scrapping relegation and turned them into one of the most consistent teams in the league. he has been at the club for 10 years. that's continuing. laudrup came in less than 1 year ago, continuing on from others. it's different. if we're gonna look at simplistically then laudrup has done nothing compared to moyes. he came in and took over from previous managers who set absolutely everything in place, notably martinez in 2006. people seem to suggest continuity is important but have they taken a look at laudrup's managerial record?Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
2002–2006 Brøndby
2007–2008 Getafe
2008–2009 Spartak Moscow
2010–2011 Mallorca
2012–present Swansea City
where's the continuity in that?
it's even worse for his playing career, im sure we're all aware of it. the guy completely defies the meaning of continuity.
and i dont get this comparison between me bashing wenger for not delivering trophies and then apparently contradicting myself by wanting moyes here. lets get one thing straight, we speak of them in different context; at everton, no-one expects moyes to deliver trophies every year but at arsenal its completely different because we expect trophies and something to show at the end of every season. whilst finishing 5th is good for everton, finishing 4th is bad for us. you can only compare the two if moyes had the resources wenger has had but he hasnt, he's had less than most managers in the league.
we are an elite club playing in the champions league, underperforming because of self inflicted wounds. there is no indication of that at everton, there is no loony manager making horrendous decisions, no manager who makes tactical howlers, no self inflicted wounds. im not sure how much economic background you have but to put it in blatant terms, everton are busting gut and managing to perform on the production frontier even though they shouldnt be e.g. they are over-performing, while we are underutilising resources and performing inside the frontier. everton can push a gut to try and take another step up but it will never happen; their gate receipts, stadium, lack of commercials wont allow it. its different here because we have all of that in place so if moyes came here, i think he'd do better with the resources available.
Exclusive: Sagna prepares for Arsenal stay after PSG switch falls through – but Anzhi are getting ready to pounce
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz2SH4XHUMd
First reaction : Fuck sake
Second reaction : :pray:
If he defies the meaning of continuity then what is the point stating he has everything already set up for him at a club? If there isn't anything within him that maintains what has gone before then praising Martinez/Rodgers for what they did at Swansea is rather irrelevant. That's why I mentioned continuity with him because you were talking about what was there before he was appointed and so what he has done this season is because of them and he is just doing the same thing as them. A manager that is smart enough to work with what is there to begin with isn't to be scoffed at, coming in and reinventing the wheel would be the easiest thing to do (not that someone like Michu was there to begin with).Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
The problem you have is that you're extrapolating Moyes' performance based on money alone and not accounting for any other factors. He has proven many a time he is excellent with his team as an underdog (apart from his record against us and away to the better teams) but he is very, very poor when it generally comes to getting results against teams that probably have less going for them than Everton do. You can't put getting hammered 0-3 at home to Wigan in an FA Cup tie due to having his hands tied, just like we can't when we have failed to win a domestic cup.
Just like some have been criticised before by not seeing Wenger's failings and using a lack of money as a reason for us not winning Premier League/Champions League, the same is happening here with Moyes. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a different level if the same situations are arising, a different tariff of what's expected will be used for Moyes then it will for Wenger but it doesn't mean any criticisms should be waived away.
Also, we were putting Moyes' record against someone that has won something rather quickly and you can deride Laudrup for being at a club where he has it all set up for him if you like but I bet that 'economic background' you refer to would show that Swansea aren't exactly a financial goldmine either. In any case, these are the figures I could find for Everton http://www.transferleague.co.uk/prem...transfers.html I wouldn't take those transfer fees quite as what they state they are but I don't think they are wildly inaccurate.
Another also, you didn't answer what the prerequisite for the next manager is.
i dont get your first paragraph. how hard is it to understand that laudrup defies continuity because he hasn't been anywhere for more than a few years while moyes has been at a club for 10. if you cant grasp how moyes signifies the concept of continuity but laudrup doesnt, then i cant keep repeating it. swansea signify continuity, yes e.g. they bring in managers that continue their philosophy. but laudrup doesnt. detach them from each other. he has had everything done for him; he came in, sat in the seat and put his foot on the pedal. moyes had to make the car, fuel it then ease onto the pedal.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
i see the point about confining moyes to finance but isnt that important nowadays? it links back to the contextuality issue mentioned earlier, each club has its own problems and should be judged on that. you cant compare arsenal to everton because you'll always say 'moyes shouldnt come here because he hasnt won a trophy with everton'. its like saying 'my car is better than yours even though my budget was x2 of yours'. its incomparable. but i feel like im just repeating myself i.e. he's working miracles on a shoestring budget etc so maybe we'll just leave this debate, clearly we're at loggerheads.
one last thing regarding a comment someone made earlier: "Moyes has a different attitude and believes it's the superstar players that dictates the way a team plays. There is a fundamental difference to the way he thinks about football and what we've been building here with Wenger". im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. the one thing people always associate with everton is their workman, labouring type attitude. how everyone puts in a shift etc. to suggest moyes or everton are dictated by superstars is absolute tosh and just plainly untrue. how can people make such rubbish up? :lol: the problem with everton has probably been their lack of superstars to really push them on a bit further. what absolute tosh :haha:
You said he completely defies the meaning of continuity though. The meaning of continuity (yes in its pure dictionary definition) is in fact enhanced more by Laudrup's time at Swansea because there has been a change in manager, when disruption is more likely to come. Regardless of whatever happens from now on, he is the manager that has got them in to Europe, after one season.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Also, am I right to think that whatever happens (assuming it is positive) with Everton from after Moyes has gone that the new manager would not get much credit from you?
I disagree on what you say about Arsenal & Everton as a comparison, judging each club in its own self-contained box of criterions just means that a lot more defence for Wenger can be sought than what you would ordinarily say. You mention that you can't compare Everton to Arsenal but can you (financially presumably) compare Arsenal to Man City or Chelsea? Even Man Utd? Saying he is working miracles is exactly what is said about Wenger by the very same people in the media and many non Arsenal supporters. Yes we are Champions League level and they are not but again, as I said before, the same situations with money can be applied and what is expected can be changed accordingly; it doesn't make the discussion any less valid.
Well I want to go back to pacey, powerful, technical football and get away from boring shit tippy tappy. Certainly I don't want to see tedious percentage footie so I regret to inform you Moyes won't be invited to be the next Arsenal manager. It wasn't even a difficult decision. I don't want that grim, joyless, safe and dull pair of hands here. We need to move on don't we? Not consolidate the shit we have to put up with at the present. It would really help if the miserly yank would fuck off too.
@maccy
he defies continuity. swansea dont. simple.
and why shouldnt you compare arsenal to man city? rich owner, check. big stadium, check. cash reserves, check. just because they are pumped by 'dirty' money and we choose not to spend any doesnt mean they are streets ahead of us. we have the money but choose to piss around, if we werent underutilising our resources so much we'd be up there challenging. for example, we finished with 70 points last year, we'll probably finish with roughly the same this year. if we kept van persie he would've probably got us an extra 10 points over the course of the season and we end up nearer 80 points. you're challenging for the title with that. everton are nowhere near doing that.
thats why i dont think arsenal and everton are comparable but it is much more complex than that, as you say. it all comes down to opinions, it wouldnt be fun if we all agreed now would it.
Oh ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
You seem to be thinking that I am expecting Everton to be challenging for the title so it can prove Moyes has done something worthy, that's not what I am saying. If you look at their results though, they could do better - if they could show this Europa League level this season, why couldn't they last season at the start (and in seasons before that)? Why has Moyes had so many poor results against sides that earn a lot less and have spent a lot less than they do? Why did they finish eleventh in the season he spent the most money with them? These are all reasonable questions that don't even need a comparison or lack there of to Arsenal, though those same questions are just as reasonably asked of about Wenger.
Man City haven't just had money, they've had money with basically no restriction, self imposed or otherwise. I know it will probably taken as a criticism of them but it's not, it's just truthful and in terms of us winning the league, that makes it very unlikely. It doesn't mean we can't be successful in other competitions though and that's at the crux of things with Moyes too.
I'd quite like to buy Maccy a beer.
Several, actually.
You misunderstand. This is from Moyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...on-david-moyes
Quote:
He states: "Folk think I'm defensive but I was brought up on the best attacking team ever in terms of style and what was demanded, Glasgow Celtic. I have also played under coaches who showed me another style. I want my team in the opponents' half having shots. I've only been brought up that way and no other way. But you can only win games with the tools you have available and if you don't have them you need to find other ways of winning. Otherwise I wouldn't still be in the job.
"I didn't have the tools to win that way five or six years ago. What I have had is time to get to the point where I am now being asked about being entertaining."
I saw an interview with him on Football Focus this year and he expanded on this point about not having the players to play attractive football. It probably stems back to Gerrard's criticism of Everton being a long ball team. It makes sense to do what you have to do to survive and work with what you have. But it's taken him years to change his approach and Everton still aren't that great to watch now. They were very defensive against us when the Top 4 spot was on the line and both teams needed the points. Compare his philosophy to Wenger's. Arsene took boring '1 nil Arsenal' and installed his attacking philosophy over night and he had us playing champagne football on the cheap. Old tools in the box were sharpened up and he had our wingbacks going forward with every player keeping the ball on the deck and not hoofing it long when back in defence. He taught ball retention and keeping it simple. Great attacking football.Quote:
You can win with flair but we won a lot of games 1-0 that year. We were consistent, hard to beat. There are different ways of skinning a cat.
Now Laudrop has similar a philosophy.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19346728
I like that sort of attitude. No rubbish about not having the tools to play that sort of way and I'm sure I've heard Fat Sam and Dirty Harry use the same sort of excuse. We used to hear the excuse all the time when teams would kick lumps out of us, park the bus and hoof it long. I have a lot of respect for the new managers that have come to the Prem and haven't played that way. I have a problem with managers that use finances as an excuse to explain their brand of football. It doesn't fit with what we've built here with Arsene. I give him a lot of stick but he you have to respect what he's done here and we should expand on it. Someone like Laudrop is from a similar background and Moyes just isn't.Quote:
"You can't ask players to do things that Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are doing, but you can ask the easy things. Sometimes the easiest things in football - a simple pass five or eight yards - can be the most effective. That, everybody can learn and everybody can improve."
Sounds good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm
Booze. :bow:
:sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
I feel fuckin awlful.
Me too :lol:
Time to get bacon on.
Laudrup would approve.
Laudrop :bow:.
Swap with Giroud.Quote:
QPR striker Loic Remy, 26, hopes to complete a summer transfer to Arsenal. The France international will be available for £6m because of a relegation release clause in his contract.
Full story: Sunday Mirror
Remy is shit too.. Get Lewandowski ffs, no point wasting money buying shit players to replace shit players.. :coffee:
That wonder goal wasn't shit. I don't know haven't seen him play that much. He seems to have to things we desperately miss up front. Pace and the ability to shoot. We really need to go back to signing fast strikers. Lewankdowski isn't coming here. Why move from Dortmund to join Arsenal?
He has one year left and refused to sign a new deal with Dortmund, he will definitely leave. His commanding fee should not be more than £25 million, which is good value for a goal scoring striker. Though Barcelona, Marketing and Chelsea might want him as well. :coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Pay them 6m to take Giroud. Remy would be a useful 4th choice striker ahead of walnut but we need some proper strikers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
Remy seems like a realistic bet.
The likes of Falcao and Lewandowski are in the other supermarket we don't shop in.
Yes, Wenger sometimes sneaks into that other supermarket and picks up Silvestre from the ponging offers counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Why would who go from playing with a title winning team and CL finalists to a team struggling to secure 4th? We don't pay competitive wages either so it's not going to happen. He's looking at a move to one of the elite clubs. I don't doubt that he'd leave Dortmund. It just wouldn't make sense for him to leave there to come here.Quote:
Originally Posted by milla
We will send him yesterday's match video vs QPR and he will want to come here for certain. When he sees how much quality we have he will not be even a little frightened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory