Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit

[Niall_Quinn]

Kroenke out. Gazidis out. Then let's see.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Replacing Wenger with Moyes.

Regression.

[Power n Glory]

That 'gremlin from Scotland' hasn't won anything though, so I don't really get the point. You go so far to deride Wenger at every opportunity, I don't really get why you're scoffing at other managers being suggested, you'd think anyone other than Wenger would be preferable to you.

Exactly. A senseless argument. We can't go from Wenger to David Moyes.

With Laudrop, I can at least respect the way he sets his teams up to play football. Simple but beautiful and attacking football that doesn't require superstar players. Moyes has a different attitude and believes it's the superstar players that dictates the way a team plays. There is a fundamental difference to the way he thinks about football and what we've been building here with Wenger.

It also makes no sense to bash Wenger for being cautious and then holding up Moyes as a beacon of hope. He's won nothing but has a good record of balancing the books. It would be a serious worry if the Board were considering him. It would show where they place their priorities. Wenger preaches financial prudence but he also talks a lot about the beauty of the game, attacking football and youth development. I'd hope they'd consider that side as well when appointing a new coach.

[Ollie the Optimist]

do goal.com just get a list of our players, and a list of clubs, close their eyes, point at our player, then point at a club and make up a rumour about it?


like fuck we would sell kos. he signed a new deal last year plus he is our best defender

[Munchies]

do goal.com just get a list of our players, and a list of clubs, close their eyes, point at our player, then point at a club and make up a rumour about it?


like fuck we would sell kos. he signed a new deal last year plus he is our best defender

That site is awful, haven't been on it properly in around 5 years

But for the Kos deal, it'll happen if the price is right

Sell Kos for £20m
Get Williams for £5m
£15m profit = Winning

[Cripps_orig]

We win the profit making trophy

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Obviously challenging in all competitions is the wish, of all fans but what is the necessary for the next manager then? Saying Moyes has taken Everton from nowhere to somewhere simplifies it slightly because it makes it sound like there have been no poor years, when he has had a few (2003/2004 and 2005/2006) for instance).

It's churlish to say he had everything set up for him there though, it rather suggests we should only ever be looking at managers that have taken a struggling club and improved upon them significantly. The odd thing is that you're laughing at Laudrup for doing the one thing you're clearly praising Moyes for - continuity! Continuity is a big thing I concede and continuing what may or may not have been there before is not the easy thing to do at a club that you seem to suggest it is.

You could be just as churlish and say Everton have been everpresents in the Premier League (though they've come very close to relegation before) and so having them as top seven, when there are seven of those teams in the Premier League is not a particularly great achievement. Looking at the table coldly and blankly you say Laudrup has taken a mid table side and...has them in midtable but he's done that and won something, which is huge for a club that has only been in the league for two seasons.

Moyes has reached a glass ceiling that he can't break, maybe that's based on financial limitations but as we've seen at Arsenal, I think it's a close minded way of looking at it. He has had multiple opportunities to be successful in that tangible way but has failed, on numerous occasions.

Your two point choice isn't neccesarily true. I'd have thought it would be but there are plenty of Birmingham supporters that would not give up their win against us, even though they have massive financial problems and haven't been doing particularly well in the Championship. In any case, praising Moyes for that is no different to Arsenal supporters beng ok with the continuity and safety Wenger gives us - someone you have patently made clear before you want rid of.

but the concept of continuity between the two clubs differ; if you break it down into different typology then the meaning of continuity we attach to moyes is completely different to the meaning of continuity we attach to swansea. moyes done it all himself, he took a team scrapping relegation and turned them into one of the most consistent teams in the league. he has been at the club for 10 years. that's continuing. laudrup came in less than 1 year ago, continuing on from others. it's different. if we're gonna look at simplistically then laudrup has done nothing compared to moyes. he came in and took over from previous managers who set absolutely everything in place, notably martinez in 2006. people seem to suggest continuity is important but have they taken a look at laudrup's managerial record?

2002–2006 Brøndby
2007–2008 Getafe
2008–2009 Spartak Moscow
2010–2011 Mallorca
2012–present Swansea City

where's the continuity in that?

it's even worse for his playing career, im sure we're all aware of it. the guy completely defies the meaning of continuity.

and i dont get this comparison between me bashing wenger for not delivering trophies and then apparently contradicting myself by wanting moyes here. lets get one thing straight, we speak of them in different context; at everton, no-one expects moyes to deliver trophies every year but at arsenal its completely different because we expect trophies and something to show at the end of every season. whilst finishing 5th is good for everton, finishing 4th is bad for us. you can only compare the two if moyes had the resources wenger has had but he hasnt, he's had less than most managers in the league.

we are an elite club playing in the champions league, underperforming because of self inflicted wounds. there is no indication of that at everton, there is no loony manager making horrendous decisions, no manager who makes tactical howlers, no self inflicted wounds. im not sure how much economic background you have but to put it in blatant terms, everton are busting gut and managing to perform on the production frontier even though they shouldnt be e.g. they are over-performing, while we are underutilising resources and performing inside the frontier. everton can push a gut to try and take another step up but it will never happen; their gate receipts, stadium, lack of commercials wont allow it. its different here because we have all of that in place so if moyes came here, i think he'd do better with the resources available.

[Munchies]

Exclusive: Sagna prepares for Arsenal stay after PSG switch falls through – but Anzhi are getting ready to pounce

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz2SH4XHUMd

First reaction : Fuck sake
Second reaction :

[McNamara That Ghost...]

but the concept of continuity between the two clubs differ; if you break it down into different typology then the meaning of continuity we attach to moyes is completely different to the meaning of continuity we attach to swansea. moyes done it all himself, he took a team scrapping relegation and turned them into one of the most consistent teams in the league. he has been at the club for 10 years. that's continuing. laudrup came in less than 1 year ago, continuing on from others. it's different. if we're gonna look at simplistically then laudrup has done nothing compared to moyes. he came in and took over from previous managers who set absolutely everything in place, notably martinez in 2006. people seem to suggest continuity is important but have they taken a look at laudrup's managerial record?

2002–2006 Brøndby
2007–2008 Getafe
2008–2009 Spartak Moscow
2010–2011 Mallorca
2012–present Swansea City

where's the continuity in that?

it's even worse for his playing career, im sure we're all aware of it. the guy completely defies the meaning of continuity.

and i dont get this comparison between me bashing wenger for not delivering trophies and then apparently contradicting myself by wanting moyes here. lets get one thing straight, we speak of them in different context; at everton, no-one expects moyes to deliver trophies every year but at arsenal its completely different because we expect trophies and something to show at the end of every season. whilst finishing 5th is good for everton, finishing 4th is bad for us. you can only compare the two if moyes had the resources wenger has had but he hasnt, he's had less than most managers in the league.

we are an elite club playing in the champions league, underperforming because of self inflicted wounds. there is no indication of that at everton, there is no loony manager making horrendous decisions, no manager who makes tactical howlers, no self inflicted wounds. im not sure how much economic background you have but to put it in blatant terms, everton are busting gut and managing to perform on the production frontier even though they shouldnt be e.g. they are over-performing, while we are underutilising resources and performing inside the frontier. everton can push a gut to try and take another step up but it will never happen; their gate receipts, stadium, lack of commercials wont allow it. its different here because we have all of that in place so if moyes came here, i think he'd do better with the resources available.

If he defies the meaning of continuity then what is the point stating he has everything already set up for him at a club? If there isn't anything within him that maintains what has gone before then praising Martinez/Rodgers for what they did at Swansea is rather irrelevant. That's why I mentioned continuity with him because you were talking about what was there before he was appointed and so what he has done this season is because of them and he is just doing the same thing as them. A manager that is smart enough to work with what is there to begin with isn't to be scoffed at, coming in and reinventing the wheel would be the easiest thing to do (not that someone like Michu was there to begin with).

The problem you have is that you're extrapolating Moyes' performance based on money alone and not accounting for any other factors. He has proven many a time he is excellent with his team as an underdog (apart from his record against us and away to the better teams) but he is very, very poor when it generally comes to getting results against teams that probably have less going for them than Everton do. You can't put getting hammered 0-3 at home to Wigan in an FA Cup tie due to having his hands tied, just like we can't when we have failed to win a domestic cup.

Just like some have been criticised before by not seeing Wenger's failings and using a lack of money as a reason for us not winning Premier League/Champions League, the same is happening here with Moyes. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a different level if the same situations are arising, a different tariff of what's expected will be used for Moyes then it will for Wenger but it doesn't mean any criticisms should be waived away.

Also, we were putting Moyes' record against someone that has won something rather quickly and you can deride Laudrup for being at a club where he has it all set up for him if you like but I bet that 'economic background' you refer to would show that Swansea aren't exactly a financial goldmine either. In any case, these are the figures I could find for Everton http://www.transferleague.co.uk/prem...transfers.html I wouldn't take those transfer fees quite as what they state they are but I don't think they are wildly inaccurate.

Another also, you didn't answer what the prerequisite for the next manager is.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

If he defies the meaning of continuity then what is the point stating he has everything already set up for him at a club? If there isn't anything within him that maintains what has gone before then praising Martinez/Rodgers for what they did at Swansea is rather irrelevant. That's why I mentioned continuity with him because you were talking about what was there before he was appointed and so what he has done this season is because of them and he is just doing the same thing as them.

The problem you have is that you're extrapolating Moyes' performance based on money alone and not accounting for any other factors. He has proven many a time he is excellent with his team as an underdog (apart from his record against us and away to the better teams) but he is very, very poor when it generally comes to getting results against teams that probably have less going for them than Everton do. You can't put getting hammered 0-3 at home to Wigan in an FA Cup tie due to having his hands tied, just like we can't when we have failed to win a domestic cup.

Just like some have been criticised before by not seeing Wenger's failings and using a lack of money as a reason for us not winning Premier League/Champions League, the same is happening here with Moyes. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a different level if the same situations are arising, a different tariff of what's expected will be used for Moyes then it will for Wenger but it doesn't mean any criticisms should be waived away.

Also, we were putting Moyes' record against someone that has won something rather quickly and you can deride Laudrup for being at a club where he has it all set up for him if you like but I bet that 'economic background' you refer to would show that Swansea aren't exactly a financial goldmine either.

Another also, you didn't answer what the prerequisite for the next manager is.

i dont get your first paragraph. how hard is it to understand that laudrup defies continuity because he hasn't been anywhere for more than a few years while moyes has been at a club for 10. if you cant grasp how moyes signifies the concept of continuity but laudrup doesnt, then i cant keep repeating it. swansea signify continuity, yes e.g. they bring in managers that continue their philosophy. but laudrup doesnt. detach them from each other. he has had everything done for him; he came in, sat in the seat and put his foot on the pedal. moyes had to make the car, fuel it then ease onto the pedal.

i see the point about confining moyes to finance but isnt that important nowadays? it links back to the contextuality issue mentioned earlier, each club has its own problems and should be judged on that. you cant compare arsenal to everton because you'll always say 'moyes shouldnt come here because he hasnt won a trophy with everton'. its like saying 'my car is better than yours even though my budget was x2 of yours'. its incomparable. but i feel like im just repeating myself i.e. he's working miracles on a shoestring budget etc so maybe we'll just leave this debate, clearly we're at loggerheads.

one last thing regarding a comment someone made earlier: "Moyes has a different attitude and believes it's the superstar players that dictates the way a team plays. There is a fundamental difference to the way he thinks about football and what we've been building here with Wenger". im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. the one thing people always associate with everton is their workman, labouring type attitude. how everyone puts in a shift etc. to suggest moyes or everton are dictated by superstars is absolute tosh and just plainly untrue. how can people make such rubbish up? the problem with everton has probably been their lack of superstars to really push them on a bit further. what absolute tosh