Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

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Originally Posted by Letters

Would absolutely love to see your posts on here if we had a season like Dortmund have had under Klopp this year.
Rock bottom after 19 games.
P19 W4 D4 L11 F18 A27
They've done better since but they're still nearer the relegation zone than the top 4.

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I want us to at least try to do something different. Wenger is what you have if you want to be middle class for life.. I want us to at least try and move onto the next level. Whether Klopp will be the man who can do it or someone else, I know one thing for sure... Wenger is not the man to take us to the level a club of Arsenals size should aspire to be. I dont want odd title challenges once every 2-3 years (which hasnt happened in 10 years now), I want Arsenal to be dominating the league and the club having an aura of superiority. I want that swagger of the Highbury times back (late 90s, early 2000s).. enough of this praying for a miracle draw in CL to have hopes to progress beyond the 2nd round. I want us to look at Bayern, Barca and Madrid, and think... "We can do this!"

We're tired of watching Wenger make the same mistakes every single year. Resources are no longer an excuse, we have a strong squad and the resources to build on it.

But will he invest in the right areas this summer?
Will we have the consistency to win the league, or only turn up for half the season?
Will we reach the latter stages of the Champions League, or will Wenger's tactical naivety be shown up again?

We've been asking the same questions for a decade and nothing has changed, so I'm pretty sure I know the answer to those three questions.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Pretty much exactly what I'm talking about.
No attempt to engage with anything I said, no response to anything, just abuse.
:shrug:

GW :rose:

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Here goes....what really ticks me off about your posts in this thread is the way you've waded into the conversation as if you know something about Klopp and German footbal. No shame in not knowing but you barge in with your biased Googled stats like you have something to contribute. If it were Wenger you'd be finding a way to cook the books in his favour like you've done recently.

Speaking of Wenger, nobody has insulted him on this thread over the past couple of days since this topic flared up again. People were just discussing potential replacements and you decided to make the comparsion. You always resort to the same retort about Wenger insults in these topics when he's not even mentioned in a debate. It's distracting and it's funny how you say other's don't engage with posts. Somehow, someway, you always find a way to beat that top 4 drum message and Wenger's record even though it's not a talking point or even relevant to this topic.

Anyway, It's stupid comparsion because you still don't recognise it's taken several years for fans to firmly want Wenger out. If Wenger had the sort of season Klopp's having now after we've exhausted all avenues, rebuilt team after team with the new funding we were once starved of, of course most would want him gone.

But if this were 2005/6, our Invincible team has just been picked off, Chelsea and Utd are spending millions whilst we struggle, even if we were bottom of the table, I doubt fans would be so quick to call for Wenger to be fired after years of success with us. We'd be wondering what's wrong with the players, speculating what's going on behind the scenes with the Board and funding like were doing year after year before these new sponsorship deals came through. I highly doubt you'd be calling for him to be sacked and you'd be pointing out the 'moneybag' teams as you usually do.

If we win at OT today and retain the FA Cup you can make a good argument for progression on last season, particularly with the emergence of Bellerin and Coquelin and resurgence of Cazorla and Ozil.

However my view of the last few years hasn't changed, Wenger just doesn't have it in him anymore to sustain a title challenge. To his credit he's assembled a very good squad of players; however he's the one holding them back and, as mentioned, all the excuses have dried up. For that reason I want him to go.

If you recall time after time how Letters always brings the discussions round to how people are saying Wenger is an idiot when HE is always the first to use that word, you see a desperation to win an argument at all costs whether by calling other poster stupid or other such childish words. (He is always the first to insult the others) or by gerrymandering the frame of the argument to suit whatever Wengerite position will win the day for him. It is rather sad really. Sometimes I wonder if the real reason he doesn't want anyone to replace Wenger is because, if, and this is a long shot, if the new person actually ends up doing better than Wenger, then Letters will have ended up losing an argument for the first time in history. Now we can have that now can we, what else would be the poor chaps raison d etre?.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Athletico dont play dire football. They play good football but shut the barn door when playing the big boys.. I see nothing wrong with that, if we get results.

I am not a big fan of Pep either.. I think his success is built on teams who have world class players throughout the pitch. Dont think he will suit us.

I'd take Klopp, Martinez, Koeman or any up and coming manager over Wenger. IMO, we dont necessarily need to bring in someone who has won something, as long as they can show that they can motivate the team and have proper tactics.

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I dunno. Granted I don't watch them religiously but the bits I've seen they've always been scrappy and workmanlike. Plus the "not speaking a word of English" thing is kind of a massive deal.

I can never judge Pep properly. On the one hand he's won so much and is probably arguably responsible for one of the best teams in world football for the past few decades (his Barca team) but on the other hand he does do some bizarre things at times, seems stubborn and inflexible and seems to wind a lot of people up the wrong way. According to a irl ITK I know, allegedly Wenger and Gazidis are big fans of him and Wenger is prepared to even step down if Pep becomes available and wants the job.


Martinez :lol: ....... terrible stuff FakeYank. The guy can't build a defence if his life depeneded on it. You don't think we concede too many goals as it is?

Koeman's had a fantastic season (considering expectations) but he flopped the last time he went to a semi big club (Valencia). Seems to me another Moyes situation tbh, good enough at that level but not for the elites.

I actually think Gary Monk's a better manager than both of them tbh.


Anyway a win today would give Wenger some postivity after the disappointment of last Monday.

No more excuses for Wenger. He's clueless at the very top level and he just keeps on proving it, season after season. It's embarrassing watching a squad of talented players being so badly mismanaged.

Todays game shows yet again that tactically he has been left behind

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

If we win at OT today and retain the FA Cup you can make a good argument for progression on last season, particularly with the emergence of Bellerin and Coquelin and resurgence of Cazorla and Ozil.

However my view of the last few years hasn't changed, Wenger just doesn't have it in him anymore to sustain a title challenge. To his credit he's assembled a very good squad of players; however he's the one holding them back and, as mentioned, all the excuses have dried up. For that reason I want him to go.

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Over the years he has indeed assembled some good teams. However, players have come and gone ad infinitum but the same losers mentality has infected every team he has put out since 2004.

There are no excuses, there is nowhere for Wenger to hide. He has a losers mentality and he infects every team he puts out with it.

Lower points tally than last season. wenger :bow: