Arsenal vs Paris St Germain - 29.04.2025 - KO 20:00 GMT

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

PSG were not that good IMO, yes they had some chances but so did we. Their 'ferocious attack' only really lasted 20 odd mins or so and then it was more about retaining possession in the midfield areas. In fact if we weren't being so bloody cowardly, there is a good chance we would have been able to put some attacking pressure on them in the second half.

I don't think our performance was good enough and there was way too much safety back passing and a lack of real energy (Rice walking over to take a fucking corner ffs)

However, we are only 1-0 down and Partey will be back.
That means Merino back up top and Trossard on the bench where he belongs - we will have much more control of the game and I think we will beat them and go through.

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They weren't that good, but you know what the pundits are like. Dembele, apart from one scuffer which was entirely unintentional was anonymous. That beardy guy who flopped in the box, he was the main threat from their previous matches and he was neutralised too. Their defence was a shambles every time we decided to go at them instead of tap it around in front of them. We basically played right into their hands, except for a brief spell in both halves where we dominated them and should have scored at least 2.

But we were also extremely loose in the middle, first goal was a joke, and had several brainfarts at the back which are unusual. That constant fucking around at the back also put unnecessary pressure on us. We did enough things wrong to make it a 50/50 game with both teams being wasteful up front. particularly us.

I also don't get that dumb FK routine where we have to get everyone onside by barging through a wall of defenders. Surely that's an open invitation to VAR every time?

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think he was just weak, set a dangerous precedent for himself early on that he could never properly or consistently enforce

Think he gave them silly yellow cards for nothing as well

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Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

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It certainly looked one-sided, though I've kinda given up trying to work out wtf goes on in these people's minds, i just wish they'd do their bloody jobs properly

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Not at all. He was deliberate in everything he did. Booked us early and for nothing to send a message. Waited an eternity to book them, despite the relentless fouling. Were many, many examples of one rule for PSG another for us. He heavily influenced the game for the whole 90.

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Probably should ignore the penalty he didn't give early doors when someone that intent on affecting the result could have given it.
When they showed the replay the commentators noted that if he'd given it VAR wouldn't have overturned it. Would have been soft, but if he was as hellbent on affecting things as much as you claim why not give that one?

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

If we showed our professionalism in the previous game I'd have no case to present.

I've seen this so many times from us an yet I'm being told I am creating fallacies.

Your example is ridiculous and you know it. How many times have you heard about momentum in football.

Now how many times have you heard about sneezing in preparation for a game of this magnitude.

Why you don't want us to be leaving no stone unturned and leaving nothing to chance I cannot fathom.

You said we were pussies so clearly you don't think we've left everything out there, so why not?

Sneezing and car alarms I guess.

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:gp:

I find those who dismiss the importance of momentum in football, or indeed professional sport baffling. Whether it was distraction; attempting to avoid injury or deliberately trying to conserve energy in the Palace game, my view is that the weekend did have some consequences for PSG. We were not sharp and focussed for the first part of the PSG game, and it's very difficult to escape the feeling that had we used the Palace game as a primer for Tuesday's game this might not have happened. You could even turn it around and say that we were too wild (and therefore agitated) initially at the Emirates on Tuesday, having placed the emphasis on this, rather than the Palace game.

People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL, but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule. Like I've said, you cannot turn professional performances on and off - it's a habit. At this level, the margins are super fine, and our preparation for Tuesday was not good. Dropping points to Palace has also affected our preparation for the return fixture - as our league position and even finishing in the CL places for next season is now considerably less secure, which makes Bournemouth almost a must win - given our remaining league games.

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Originally Posted by IBK

People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL, but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule.

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Oh dear, not the 'exception proving the rule' argument - are you HCZ in disguise? :lol:

...how about we turn it round and say drawing the Palace game not helping us before this was the exception...?

PSG lost their game before they played us - is that another exception...?

OK if someone lost 10 games straight prior to an important match, that's a momentum issue but not teams with limted squads seeking to protect their resources immediately prior to a very big game

The ony mistake in the Palace game aas the inexplicable decision to start Sterling and not Nwaneri

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Oh dear, not the 'exception proving the rule' argument - are you HCZ in disguise? :lol:

...how about we turn it round and say drawing the Palace game not helping us before this was the exception...?

PSG lost their game before they played us - is that another exception...?

OK if someone lost 10 games straight prior to an important match, that's a momentum issue but not teams with limted squads seeking to protect their resources immediately prior to a very big game

The ony mistake in the Palace game aas the inexplicable decision to start Sterling and not Nwaneri

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Still waiting on you to explain how Jamie Vardy makes every concern I have about a 26/27 year old having not played top level domestic football outside of Portugal null and void?

Exception that proves the rule is simply stating that just because something can happen, doesn’t make it likely to happen.

Outside courtroom arguments trying to establish precedent, most people make their case based on what happens more often than not, not on outliers. I can’t believe you would have made it to your late 50s and not realised this.

The problem with the Momentum argument is the tendency a lot of people who argue online have, which is to argue an all or nothing stance. If I say Momentum doesn’t appear to be relevant in this particular case, I’m saying it’s not relevant ever.

Equally to say if we had beaten Palace we’d have done better against PSG is unfalsifiable.

I don’t rule out that beating Palace meant we might have had more confidence going into this game given that we played a pretty strong side. But to assert that it’s objectively the case as the other Mac did, is a post hoc fallacy

Afterwards therefore because of, is a pretty weak argument in my view

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Originally Posted by IBK

I find those who dismiss the importance of momentum in football, or indeed professional sport baffling.

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I neither dismiss it nor regard it as the be all and end all.
Would I rather we'd beaten Palace and not dropped silly points? Of course.
Do I think that had we won the Palace game we'd have also beaten PSG? I think that's a massive stretch.

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People point to the draws before the 2 Madrid games as somehow being evidence that league form has no effect on the CL

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It is clearly evidence and other examples have been provided.

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but for me this is trying to use an exception to prove a rule.

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In order to demonstrate that you're going to have to do some proper analysis of league results before cup games and see if there's any interesting correlations.
I honestly don't know either way. But my main point is in the context of a title race which has been over for ages - realistically if not mathematically, till now - I understand why a week before our first semi-final since 2009 the players were perhaps a bit less willing to go flying in to tackles. And whether we deserved to or not (by all accounts not) we'd have won that game anyway had it not been for Saliba's late brainfart. I just think some people are making too much of that result, I'm not convinced it had any bearing on the PSG game. We lost because we were playing one of the best sides in Europe. Even then we had our chances and could have got something.

Well let’s look at the results in the champions league since we got back in, in 2023

PSV (H) - Beaten Everton 1-0 the Sunday before, won this game

Lens (A) - Beat Bournemouth 4-0, but lost this game


Sevilla A) - Drew with Chelsea 2-2, won this game


Sevilla (H) - Lost away at Newcastle, won this game


Lens (H) - Won away at Brentford, won this game


PSV (A) - Lost to Villa, drew this game (already qualified and played a weaker team)



Porto (A) - Beat Burnley, lost this game and went on to beat Newcastle at the weekend


Porto (H) - Beat Brentford, won this game and won the tie on pels


Bayern (H) - Beat Brighton, drew this game


Bayern (A) - Lost to Villa, lost this game


Atalanta (A) - Beat Spurs, Drew this game


PSG (H) - Beat Leicester, won this game


Shaktah (H) - Lost to Bournemouth, won this game


Inter (A) - Lost to Newcastle, lost this game


Sporting (A) - Beat Forest, won this game


Monaco (H) - Drew with Fulham, won this game


Dynamo Zagreb (H) - Drew with Villa, won this game


Girona (A) - Beat Wolves, won this game (albeit with a weakened team)


PSV (A) - Couldn’t score against Forest, put 7 past them


PSV (H) - Drew away at United, drew a game where the tie was over



Madrid (H) - Drew away at Everton, won this game


Madrid (A) - Drew at home to Brentford, won this game


PSG (H) - Drew at home to Palace, lost this game


I would say the best you can say is that a definite link is inconclusive, I think there are times where there is clear evidence of Momentum (Scoring 5 at Lisbon, then scoring 5 at West Ham) or the mini collapse in April 2024.

The reason I dismiss momentum or am at least skeptical about it here, is that we’ve clearly never managed to get a winning run together in the league yet we are in the semi finals (albeit that’s as far as we go)

What I think also is a bit of a supposition is that somehow we elected to play poorly against Palace. I’d argue Saka for example looked unfit in both games, we looked nervous in both games…yet we attribute the palace draw to complacency rather than a dip in form/performance.

We were poor in both games, and it leads me to conclude that we have zero chance of overturning the deficit in Paris…not only that but we might put ourselves in severe difficulties for qualifying for the champions league next season. Now if I’m right (and I hope I’m not)….then I think we can talk about Momentum and derailment

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Originally Posted by Letters

In order to demonstrate that you're going to have to do some proper analysis of league results before cup games and see if there's any interesting correlations.

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I'd bet on there being a dip found by a lot of sides just before a major game like this

And good point re Saliba, though maybe it can be argued that his mistake should be considered an aspect of the overall performance rather than a standalone, Odegaard was mildly involved too, way back and too close to Saliba when he made the mistake