He may not be banging in the goals but he covers a hell of a lot of ground during a match. The ground Sterling won't cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
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He may not be banging in the goals but he covers a hell of a lot of ground during a match. The ground Sterling won't cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
It’s not the lack of goals, it’s the overall lack of contribution. Running around a lot is one thing but whatever one says about Havertz he makes himself available. Martinelli my biggest frustration about him for a long time is how he has the chance to take on his man but chooses to cut inside into a crowded centre…why…is he worried about being kicked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
MAybe somebody else is worried about him being kicked? And why wouldn't they? We really are, genuinely down to 4 front players now, for the title and PL run-in. It's extraordinary, stunning.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
he did get kicked and now he's outQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Won't be the last either. Tough business a title run-in, especially with the CL piled on top. And we have to do it with less than zero margin to spare when it comes to injuries. Crazy.
I think Martinelli is just following instructions to be honest. Players like him need to be able to stretch their legs and retain a bit of unpredictability and chaos. You think Klopp ever instructed Mane to look inside for an extra pass?
Martinelli is a counter attacking player in a possession based team, the styles don’t match. Saying that, he has no excuse for his timid finishing, he used to be quite confident in front of goal but now rarely seems to shoot instinctively.
very much, a bit like PepeQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
but yes he should be better in front of goal
Havertz is injured now :haha:
Another hamstring apparently but it is unconfirmed for now.
Embarrassing for the club really and if he is out for an extended period then we are truly fucked.
It’s the irony of a club that is risk averse actually unwittingly taking risk
You can’t really even call it unlucky because soft tissue injuries are the kind of things that can happen when you are playing someone more than you might otherwise
Well it's been obvious for a while that this is more than mere incompetence and that our manager and ( some senior staff) are clearly on the take...we just need to find out who is the pied piper leading them on.... my guess is one of the Nevilles backed by Elon money :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Seriously though, when I say we've had really poor leadership at the club since Dein left and that the current stewards are pretty useless, it's not because I've got any beef with anyone, but its crystal clear to even a 10 year old that most of their decisions hold us back instead of pushing us forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Just wait for the commentary in our next game, same ol' Arsenal.
Moving onQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Not only is it injuries immediately after the stellar window slammed shut, but to the very players we absolutely couldn't afford to lose. And one of them got injured on holiday!
So, the worst case scenario.
There's a plan for that, right?
Nailed it.
Havertz exemplifies the mindset that has led to this inevitable latest instalment in this season's debacle. Wasn't Areteta talking just a couple of weeks ago about how Havertz is a physical freak who can take the pressure of being played non-stop?
Well this shows us what we all knew - that our manager's apparent disdain for fitness logic is destined to fail.
Havertz out for the rest of the season
He's played 33 games this season. He's 25.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Salah is 32 and he's played 34 games.
Where does this notion come from that players can only ever play here and there? I'm sure back in our glory days we had a pretty settled first XI, you don't chop and change all the time.
The Athletic's David Ornstein has confirmed Kai Havertz will miss the rest of the season.
That's it then.
Not sure it's just number of games though. Havertz is (was) asked to get through more work than Salah does each game, and game state has also been important - eg those games where we played with 10 men...Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Dubai training camp :bow:
Arteta and the club's folly is now completely exposed
We all know what wil happen next, they rush back Saka and then he gets injured again/exacerbates his current problem
Yes, Arteta's obsession with everyone having to defend as well as attack means it's much more workload on Havertz plus as IBK says the ten-men situationsQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
We should have stumped up the £60m for Watkins
Not much we can do about the 10 men thing. Although more work is fair, he's one of the players in the PL who covers the most distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
It would be interesting to see how that compares with people like Henry back in the day who used to play pretty much every game and relied on pace a lot.
The other two aspects are a) although Salah will have played the same amount of games, I doubt he’s played the same amount of minutes. b) Havertz did not get the summer off and Salah did
It would be interesting to compare the amount of running both have done over the season. But what can’t be ignored is that soft tissue injuries are more likely when someone is fatigued
What a complete mess.
Looks like Herertz could be out for the season
I’ve got a degree of sympathy for Arteta because the odds of your entire forward line being injured at the same time is ridiculous. However the club absolutely dropped the ball by not signing anyone in January.
Everyone could see it was a gamble that was likely to backfire given how things have panned out this season.
As far as I’m concerned the season has ended today because we’re not getting anywhere the title with Trossard, Sterling and Nwaneri as our only fit forwards. Havertz for all his finishing woes can play the role of a traditional striker, I have no clue how we can expect to score goals without him occupying opponents in the way he does. It’s basically going to be a 4-6-0 formation now.
To misquote Oscar Wilde “to lose one player to hamstring injury is unfortunate, to lose three is carelessness”
With Saka, how many Amber warnings did Arteta chose to ignore. We played 21 games in 74 games how many of those did Havertz and Martinelli get any significant rest time because we’ve allowed our squad to be thinned out
If losing out on the title to Liverpool is not a sacking offence (and to my mind it absolutely is) than this wilfull negligence definitely is. Top 4 will be a struggle even without further injuries and further injuries are guaranteed.
If we don’t finish top four, I believe he will be gone. And justice will be done
Well, when you're right you're right. It's 2,860 minutes for Salah, 2,776 for Havertz. So you're right, that isn't the same!Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/moha.../plus/1#gesamt
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kai-.../plus/1#gesamt
##
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthegooner
Alright, Internet Explorer!
This is actually going to happen. It's all so predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Also Tommy might need a second knee operation, so that's a squad spot that will be carried for nobody knows how long, no chance of selling him, and no guarantee he'll ever come back. We've had a few of those before, like Diaby. Club has rapidly transformed from title contenders to a luxury hospital.
Huh well that’s hardly much difference at all, the length of a feature length Disney animation apartQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Did we look at respective distances run, though even there I know Salah covers a fuck load of ground. So it’s either the summer off has made a difference or Salah is one of those super freaks like Ronaldo. I don’t remember him spending any significant time on the treatment table
Let’s ask our resident Liverpool fan. I could look it up myself but todays my day off and I tend to visit this place more when I’m either working or on the train (says me who is sitting on the train at the moment)
Weren’t BUPA one of our sponsors once or did I imagine this ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
but what's Salah doing in those minutes, is he expected to run up and down the pitch, one minute trying to head a cross into the opposition goal and the next heading the ball off his own goal line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
No he isn't and that's the difference
HCZ is the one who brought minutes played in to it :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I already said that Havertz works harder.
I wouldn’t put that much trust in Chat GPT but it claims that the amount of ground both cover in the champions league is in and around the same. But Salah actually covers more than Havertz in the premier league. This is probably because Salah will receive the ball deep and run long distances with it. Apparently Salah has increased his average distance covered in games this season.
But Then you also have to factor in how much jumping both do, how many tackles they are going for etc
We are of course far from the only club beset with these kind of injuries.
So just looking at Salah’s injury total. In 7 and a half years at Liverpool. They’ve lost him for a combined total of less than 4 months (and this includes time off with Covid)
I suggested it might be a possible factor (apparently not)Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
But I think it’s clear Havertz has been overused this season, whether we want to relate it to how many minutes he’s played or how he’s utilised on the pitch…the point stands
Whether or not Salah is a player more immune to soft tissue injuries than someone like Havertz is specculative. But the fact remains that the warning lights have been there with Havertz for some time just like they were with Saka
Don't remember that. But we probably should have acquired them at some point given our burgeoning requirements and new transfer policies that offer significant potential for growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
This is pretty much where I'm at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
And Arteta expressed some disappointment about that too.
This isn't all on Arteta - not saying he's completely blameless either but I think he's getting far more of the blame than is fair.
Arteta has earned himself the reputation for someone who a) overplays certain players and b) someone who in interviews has in the past at least been dismissive of medical expertise, when Rice came off with injury in his first NLD…Arteta pretty much stated he needed to toughen up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We know there are instances of players playing through pain. Saka, White and Jesus have all claimed as much.
Is Arteta completely to blame and no other factor comes into it? No. But I think he takes the lions share of responsibility.
Problem is he never will.
He needs to go