Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

So Vardy is an upgrade on Giroud at £20m but he's not an upgrade on Giroud if he'd cost £40m?

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I don't think he looked at Vardy in the scope of whether he was an upgrade on Giroud, he was a player with premier league experience who costs 20million and if he didn't blend into our team he at least wasn't a massive outlay.

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Originally Posted by Özim

If he paid the prices quoted, we would have signed a lot more players throughout the years, you don't need to press to tell we're cheap, 4 years without a decent forward tells you that, as does the majority of players we've signed.

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Or it tells you that he continues to foolishly place his belief in a team and strikers that aren't sufficient. That said, last season we should've done better than a distant second and the squad was there to win it. But Wenger wasn't and hasn't been good enough to manage the squad to achieve that for a good while now.

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Originally Posted by Özim

It's not his job to worry about the fee, it's his job to improve the team, at the end of the day with his method of rating signings, we'll rarely end up with anyone, because as someone alluded he's working in a market that doesn't exist, star players cost big money these days, if you don't want to pay that then you go for young players like Janssen, yet Wenger didn't want him either.

His measure of whether a player is good or not is way off the mark anyway, you only need to look at some of the players he deems better than anyone else around to know that.

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There is a difference between me describing how Wenger makes his decisions and agreeing with it

It's the clubs money therefore as far as I'm concerned the transfer fee isn't really something he should concern himself with full stop.

I doubt Mourinho has had any part in the transfer negotiations for Pogba, I think his involvement stopped at "this is the player I want....try and get it done". Which is of course as it should be

But then you have to ask yourself of the club hierarchy, why have they allowed this for so long.

I don't want the manager who comes in after Wenger having any day over transfer fees because it's outside his remit

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Originally Posted by selassie

Kano, It doesn't matter if City won't meet the valuation for Stones and it doesn't really matter if the press have a problem with Arsenal over meeting Player valuations.

What matters is that we need to strengthen our team and we're not doing that. All evidence points to us not being prepared to pay market value for the players we have targeted as solutions to our problems.

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It does matter completely. The narrative has become, nearly exclusively through press running stories, that Wenger will not spend over a certain amount no matter what.

We need to improve our squad and I tend to believe the reason we haven't is misplaced faith again and again from Wenger. There is far more evidence of that being the case - going by his endless quotes about that over the past number of years - rather than numerous empty press reports providing no insight beyond what we want to believe or not believe.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't think he looked at Vardy in the scope of whether he was an upgrade on Giroud, he was a player with premier league experience who costs 20million and if he didn't blend into our team he at least wasn't a massive outlay.

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Could be true but factor in what Wenger has said about modern day strikers needing pace and us needing a striker that can score 20 in the league, I'd say that's an improvement on Giroud. He just wouldn't spend £40m on him. It boils down to price and if he thinks he's getting a bargain. His priorities are backwards. If Real Madrid were selling Ozil for £55m we wouldn't have paid that much for him.

Napoli have wrapped up their deal for Milik.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

The whole argument of whether Wenger rates him or not….if we really bid £30m then he rates him. Just not enough to bid £40m. Why? When I go to shop and feel like I’m being overcharged for a product I know I can get cheaper or can get something better at the same price, I’ll move on and won’t pay. So unless Wenger has a target in his mind that he knows he can get for his desired price, I really don’t know what he’s playing at. It makes no sense. He has said we need a striker. As for not rating a player because of who else made a bid…who else bid for Giroud? Who else bid for Xhaka?

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But that's exactly it. Wengers wants to move on and not pay just like you do in your analogy. Except he knows we need a striker so he has to either;

(a) Find someone better or who is available at closer to their perceived value. This is what he has been trying to do I think.

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(b) accept that that's the price we need to pay and do the deal. This is the stage we will eventually get to. Except it may well be too late by then.

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Originally Posted by bignev

But that's exactly it. Wengers wants to move on and not pay just like you do in your analogy. Except he knows we need a striker so he has to either;

(a) Find someone better or who is available at closer to their perceived value. This is what he has been trying to do I think.

or

(b) accept that that's the price we need to pay and do the deal. This is the stage we will eventually get to. Except it may well be too late by then.

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Not quite. Considering he's had 5 transfer windows to get this right, I really don't know if he'll do A or B. You're right about it might being too later and it's exactly how Utd were able to offload Welbeck on to us.

We shouldn't still be shopping around for bargains so late on in the window. The season kicks off soon and our new signings should be training with us now. In my scenario, when I'm shopping, I know how much and where I can get the alternative from. Especially if I'm pressed for time. I don't move on looking for a bargain that might not ever pop up. That's like looking for a specific gift on Christmas Eve knowing stocks are low but walking out of the shop not knowing if you'll come across anything better. We shouldn't be in this position. You've seen how Napoli sold their striker and had a replacement signed and confirmed in less than a week. What the heck is going on with our camp?

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Originally Posted by Kano

It does matter completely. The narrative has become, nearly exclusively through press running stories, that Wenger will not spend over a certain amount no matter what.

We need to improve our squad and I tend to believe the reason we haven't is misplaced faith again and again from Wenger. There is far more evidence of that being the case - going by his endless quotes about that over the past number of years - rather than numerous empty press reports providing no insight beyond what we want to believe or not believe.

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Because it's true! Even David Dein said he had to force Wenger to buy when he was at the club, it is well known that Wenger is known for dithering and procrastinating over deals like he's spending his own personal fortune.

The misplaced faith and market valuation issue kind of go hand in hand in as much as Wenger sees someone like say Walcott or Welbeck and believes that they can't be improved upon in the market. What he actually means is it would cost what 30 or 40 million pounds to upgrade on them and he isn't prepared to do that. It's not Wenger's job to worry about that, he should focus on identifying players that improve the team and let the negotiators and bean counters worry about the fees.

Forcing to buy is different than the actual reasons behind his reluctance. There is a distinction between the two. The reason I gave the overpriced Sanchez deal was because he clearly wanted the player and was prepared to pay over the odds for him. Dein has pushed him to go to the market before because he knows Wenger would stick with the same squad he has utter faith in. Dein has also come out in the past to say that Wenger won't buy because he believes he can turn youngsters into world class players - we saw this for ourselves in the early days at the Emirates. So Dein's message hasn't been wholly consistent and I can't rely on that for a source.

The reason we didn't win back to back titles was because he didn't add to the team after winning it. As Fergie would always do. This was in a period when he was ahead of others, having a keener eye for the talent around the world, bargains were there to be had without paying stupid prices, well within our old Highbury budget. But what we all know with Wenger is that he hasn't changed, he remains stubborn to his old ways which is a massive problem and I think the key one being his belief in the squad at his disposal. Too much belief in them. He did it when we won titles and he's still doing it now. The problem I have with going with his refusal match current rates angle is it heavily led and informed by the press, which I am loathe to do. If they brought out something credible other than a a number of paragraphs written from the authors perspective and I'm happy to change my tune. They have their own clear agenda in creating those stories. Whereas listening to Wenger say the same thing for years, even when we were at our height under his guidance, creates a more believable story for me because it's based on hard evidence.