Wenger Out?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

This is getting silly and we have to use some common sense here. This is getting bogged down in use of words and semantics and distracts from the overall point. As seen with Chelsea, they have sacked their boss for a brief period outside of the top four and a run of bad results. When I say top four, or a team on our level, I mean teams with the ability to compete for the league, domestic trophies and European in one season. Of course I'm not comparing us to Stoke or Sunderland.

But even those clubs have strict standards in terms of what they feel a club of their size should achieve each season. We've seen managers that have brought teams up from the Championship to the Prem and sacked the next season if it looks like they're about to go back down to the Championship. Wasn't Rafa sacked for dropping outside of the Top 4? Wasn't Jol sacked because Spurs couldn't get into the Top 4?

The Board have shown a lot of patience with Wenger and I understand the criticism from fans. It shows a lack of ambition, but I can also understand why they're looking for stability. But Wenger really should have won more given that he's been here for so long and able to compete for 4 different trophies each season. The league can be forgiven, but he should have won more cups over the last few years. Two league cup finals, one champions league final and a bunch of semi finals. He's too bloody humble.

---

The problem is, he is meeting the standards the Board have set. It is crystal clear they are happy with him. In fairness to them and Wenger, they have had to set and meet criteria that has been unique to Arsenal in that a team good enough to reach the ECL in the run up and aftermath of the stadium project was required.

The problem as I see it, is that neither the Board nor Wenger have moved on from that mindset. Fans like myself that tolerated that strategy have now moved on and want a team built that maximises the resources the Club has at it's disposal. That this is not happening and unlikely to happen with Wenger in charge is why I want a change of Manager. But until the Board move on in the criteria they set, there will be no change and I fear the only way we will see a material change is when we finish outside the top 4. And by in large, failure to finish in the top 4 has been the main impetus fir managerial change at other clubs with a realistic aspiration of ECL qualification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

He was certainly sacked after he got them finishing 5th twice in a tow (their best PL finish to that point).
The season after he sacked him they finished 11th.

---

I hear your point, Letters and I’m not saying that we’ll automatically win the league if we sack Wenger. But this is stagnation. Spurs sacked Jol, went through the growing pains and now look better under Harry. They made it to the Champs League in one season and could possibly be there again this season. With us, something has to change for things to get better and for me, I think Wenger’s policies and philosophy is hampering us.

I think that, to some degree, the board are taking advantage of Gooners' patience. By NOT making a song and dance about a poor run of results, or following through with any planned protests, they (the board) automatically assume that all things are rosy in the world of Arsenal.

Look at Wolves fans FFS! They got their wish in hounding out Mick McCarthy from the club, and now, 3 results later, they want the fat cats at the top ('Scouse Mafia' :D) out an'all!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I hear your point, Letters and I’m not saying that we’ll automatically win the league if we sack Wenger. But this is stagnation. Spurs sacked Jol, went through the growing pains and now look better under Harry. They made it to the Champs League in one season and could possibly be there again this season. With us, something has to change for things to get better and for me, I think Wenger’s policies and philosophy is hampering us.

---

I think that's a perfectly reasonable view and stagnation is exactly what it's been.
There's been no clear, straight line decline. There have been good moments and bad but the net result has been no real, consistent progress or catastrophic decline.
I do see signs of hope right now but I'm aware that there have been plenty of false dawns before.
I don't know any more. If we keep our good run going and finish 4th (or even 3rd) then I'll probably be in the "one more year" camp. Again! If we slump again then my patience will have run out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Which is why they're now sweeping all before them...
Other clubs would have sacked Wenger, other clubs haven't always benefited from sacking their manager though. It's misguided to think that things will definitely get better when Wenger goes and it's laughable that some people seem to think things can't get any worse. Some people have forgotten just how rubbish Arsenal have been at times in the not too distant past.

---

so how do you gauge the right time for him to leave? after he's fucked up and we drop out of the top four? do we keep him in charge indefinitely?

what better time to do it than when we are stable club, with a decent squad with good potential. he has shown repeatedly with similar squads that he is no longer able to improve results in general.

we will never know what will happen until it actually does, so we can sit on our hands scared of what may happen or be bold enough to test the waters - which has to happen at some point anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

so how do you gauge the right time for him to leave? after he's fucked up and we drop out of the top four? do we keep him in charge indefinitely?

what better time to do it than when we are stable club, with a decent squad with good potential. he has shown repeatedly with similar squads that he is no longer able to improve results in general.

we will never know what will happen until it actually does, so we can sit on our hands scared of what may happen or be bold enough to test the waters - which has to happen at some point anyway.

---

I think Wenger has proved he can keep Arsenal up with a limited found available .What we need is not a change of manager but a change of attitude for both manager and the board . They must understand our youth policy may not produce the expected result even in a long term . We may buy young talents and make them stars and yet lose them to other teams offering them more money and more realistic opportunities for trophies . We need to balance the youth system with some good and experience players who will serve as role model to these young talents and making Arsenal an attractive team for any player young or experienced . Wenger has the ability to do it .He done it in the past . He just need someone to convince him that his youth policy alone is a failure . David dein could be the man to make wenger reconsider his obsession with young players . But at the moment Arsene is still the man to move Arsenal forward . If he gets rid of the dead woods ( Chamack , Bendter , Squillaci , Djourou ,Almunia , Denilson ..etc) and adds just 3 quality players 1 striker ( Podolski ) , 1 good central midfielder ( Gotze , Marin , Hamsik , Hasard , Gourcuff, Eriksen ,Inler ) and 1 defender ( Vertoghen) Arsenal would become a strong team capable of challenging for every competition .

The poll results are interesting and shocking at the same time.

GW in being fickle shocker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ach

GW in being fickle shocker

---

Modern day footie fans are fickle anyway so its a not a surprise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alpha

I think Wenger has proved he can keep Arsenal up with a limited found available .What we need is not a change of manager but a change of attitude for both manager and the board . They must understand our youth policy may not produce the expected result even in a long term . We may buy young talents and make them stars and yet lose them to other teams offering them more money and more realistic opportunities for trophies . We need to balance the youth system with some good and experience players who will serve as role model to these young talents and making Arsenal an attractive team for any player young or experienced . Wenger has the ability to do it .He done it in the past . He just need someone to convince him that his youth policy alone is a failure . David dein could be the man to make wenger reconsider his obsession with young players . But at the moment Arsene is still the man to move Arsenal forward . If he gets rid of the dead woods ( Chamack , Bendter , Squillaci , Djourou ,Almunia , Denilson ..etc) and adds just 3 quality players 1 striker ( Podolski ) , 1 good central midfielder ( Gotze , Marin , Hamsik , Hasard , Gourcuff, Eriksen ,Inler ) and 1 defender ( Vertoghen) Arsenal would become a strong team capable of challenging for every competition .

---

he can achieve the minimum expected of the club, he has done for a while now but the potential is much larger. how many years do you keep saying ‘one more year’. even if was winning everything in sight, at some point he would have to leave (fergie the perfect example) and the club has to look for a manager that can sustain that level.

the youth project, wages etc still do not take away from the fact that wenger makes repeated mistakes on the pitch – something that has nothing to do with anything off the field. there is a chance that another manager may not perform as well but it is just as likely that they would perform as well and perhaps better.

how long can a top club remain just doing the same thing year on year and how many times does the team under wenger have to repeat the same cycle before something new is tried? of course i am talking purely from a football perspective and the off field politics may well impact on the manager situation but the only concrete evidence we have is what we actually see on the pitch and it is clear after another collapse in January that it’s a cycle that can’t be broken under wenger anymore. sad but true.