Wenger Out ?

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

Agreed - Ferguson could have done what Wenger has done but also continued to win titles & cups. He wouldn't have allowed a stadium rebuild to affect Utd's ability to compete or used it as the excuse.

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We'll never know.

And if he could, then aren't we talking about the greatest manager of all time?

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Originally Posted by LDG

We'll never know.

And if he could, then aren't we talking about the greatest manager of all time?

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Yes we are & also someone who knew when it was time to quit

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

Yes we are & also someone who knew when it was time to quit

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Oh, I think Wenger knows when it's time to quit.

In fact, I think he'll walk if we don't win the cup.

I find the two year thing very interesting though, as that tells me we've lined up the replacement already.

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Originally Posted by Özim

No other manager has been asked to do what Wenger does every season, just get 4th essentially, with the comfort of being able to do as he wishes pretty much. You can't compare other managers with him as by the time they arrived the club was already setup the way he wanted it, no other manager has had that luxury other than Ferguson and he outperformed Wenger.

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I suppose if you really believe Wenger settles for 4th place in return for a life of comfort then nothing will bridge the gap between your position and mine. I wasn't comparing other managers to him, you were. You said others could have done the job. Now you say no, because the same conditions haven't existed elsewhere. The argument moves to new ground every time your original points are countered.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Noone said Wenger controls the board, people have said he gets an easy ride from them and they never question anything he does, he seems to be under less pressure to deliver success than his counterparts.

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We had huge debates about the role of employers and employees. The consensus among a certain group was the board fawned at Wenger's feet and he was some sort of miser who forbade them to spend the huge treasure piles we had stashed away. Fair enough if you can't recall all the posts, but they exist. Now it has come time to trash Wenger's record it is useful to place the board back in charge and credit them exclusively.

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

Agreed - Ferguson could have done what Wenger has done but also continued to win titles & cups. He wouldn't have allowed a stadium rebuild to affect Utd's ability to compete or used it as the excuse.

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No £30mill splash outs for Ferdinand and Rooney remember. Or punts on players like Veron. Everything would have to be constrained to hits like Cantona. I'm not so sure he'd have had the same haul of trophies myself.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I suppose if you really believe Wenger settles for 4th place in return for a life of comfort then nothing will bridge the gap between your position and mine. I wasn't comparing other managers to him, you were. You said others could have done the job. Now you say no, because the same conditions haven't existed elsewhere. The argument moves to new ground every time your original points are countered.

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I didn't say others couldn't do the job, I said others haven't had the same criteria or situation so you can judge whether they could or couldn't based on what they have done at other clubs.

Yes I believe he settles for 4th place, he seems perfectly content with 4th place every season, winning whilst great isn't that important to him, wasn't it Cesc who alluded to this in an interview as well?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We had huge debates about the role of employers and employees. The consensus among a certain group was the board fawned at Wenger's feet and he was some sort of miser who forbade them to spend the huge treasure piles we had stashed away. Fair enough if you can't recall all the posts, but they exist. Now it has come time to trash Wenger's record it is useful to place the board back in charge and credit them exclusively.

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I never liked the board, they basically made money whilst being happy to watch us get 4th, but IMO they are the main reason for the stadium they put themselves on the line after all, yes it was all with the aim of making money but they still did it, Wenger had nothing to lose other than his big salary if it didn't work out, he didn't personally financially invest in it. If it didn't work out he could have just found another job as most managers do.

Wenger no doubt wanted a bigger stadium but to say he was the most important factor is nonsense, he didn't take on the debt or the risk.

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is going to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I think we need to stop looking back and muddying the waters. We should all be assessing whether he can take us forward from this point on. Here we are yet again needing to secure 4th and this time it's even more painstaking because we were competing for the title 5 games ago. Just how much progression has been made exactly? Start badly, finish well or start well, finish badly, is there a difference? Ultimately it just shows our limitations.

Do you enjoy the football we play anymore? It's not a patch on sides of the past. No I'm not silly enough to compare us to the Invincibles, I mean recent past. Where has all the creativity gone? Why are we so negative? Why did we settle for a hit and miss striker to lead the line with no viable alternatives? Why did we do nothing in January?

I've seen enough now personally. Every year is the same and we end up talking about the same things. Wenger has done wonders for us but its time to look forward, have you honestly seen signs that suggest he is the man to give us the best chance of success? No one is goin to come in and change us overnight, but aren't you all bored now of this?

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Pretty much agree with this, I'm definitely bored of it, the outcome, the football, the way things pan out, I've had enough. I don't believe in him and I don't really understand why anyone would to be honest.