Match reaction vs the Mancs

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Originally Posted by Joker

Some fans will continue to support Wenger even if he makes us into a mid-table side, and blame our demise on referees, oil money, bad luck, greedy players etc.

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So, thats their problem. Just cause you don't, don't mean others should not, don't agree with it but its up to them.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I think the shape of the team is generally better (although today was not the best example) but we have some awful error prone defenders. It's not something you can legislate for.

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At the end of the day we cherry pick these defenders, if we knew what we were doing we'd sign players who are more reliable and not so error prone.

Problem is we always look for a cheap fix to major problems in the team, this is the result of that. Sometimes you get lucky and find someone top notch, most of the time you end up with error prone cr*p.

Sky baiting wenger over second Wilshere yellow. Perfect day for them.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

not one player in that team stepped out onto that pitch with the belief that they could win.

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Nailed it. There's been this air of fear and resignation to defeat around this team for too long. You'll get some games (like the mental Reading game) where we have the balls to fight back, but too often we just accept our lot and shuffle off with a defeat.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

So, thats their problem. Just cause you don't, don't mean others should not, don't agree with it but its up to them.

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It is our problem them because as long as people don't turn against him he'll have a greater chance of staying on...and who the f*ck want that?

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Originally Posted by gunnerrrrr

have to agre about the Wenger part, it hurts us all to admit how much he has lost it

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:gp:

Gary Neville saying we wont win the league. Manc **** -so biased never liked us. Of course we have a massive chance of winning the league. Remember we have Diaby to come back

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Originally Posted by Joker

Some fans will continue to support Wenger even if he makes us into a mid-table side, and blame our demise on referees, oil money, bad luck, greedy players etc.

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the first step towards reality is acceptance. unfortunately too many of our fans are unwilling to accept that beloved wenger is not good enough and hasn't been for years.

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Originally Posted by Joker

Some fans will continue to support Wenger even if he makes us into a mid-table side, and blame our demise on referees, oil money, bad luck, greedy players etc.

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Didnt you see what colour shirt RvC was wearing today? How do you factor that into your one dimensional assessment? Do you really believe we'd be up there competing if only Wenger would ring you up for the team selection and tactics? there's more to it than your crayola analysis.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Totally delusional, I don't know if it's blind faith or just stupidity.

The guy's repuation is shattered IMO, he's failed to deliver season after season and every season it's the same nothing changes...yes he jumps up and down on the sidelines and waves his arms up and down in his penguin suit, but what does that actually mean when the guy won't change the losing formula at any cost?

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Zimm. Wenger is not a shit manager. For the love of God.

He is a fucking legend, and that should never ever be doubted. He bought the club forward. And managed to keep us champs league with no money. Simple. He is bloody awesome.

BUT. He has played to many games of chance. We are fucked unless something massuve happens at the club. He is too attached to the board. Too attached to the business model. Too attached to his players. Too stubborn. Too arrogant. And too far gone to change it around.

We are utterly unable to change anything at this stinking club. I'm so gutted.

To hear those fans, singing "we love you Arsenal" for 15 mins straight. And nothing will change.

Gutted.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

It is our problem them because as long as people don't turn against him he'll have a greater chance of staying on...and who the f*ck want that?

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Thats down to the board if he stays on, not a few fans who say Wenger Knows Best. People wanna say Wenger knows better i don't be grudge them. People wanna call him a ****, good enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

the first step towards reality is acceptance. unfortunately too many of our fans are unwilling to accept that beloved wenger is not good enough and hasn't been for years.

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Is he not good enough or is he sucking the boards nuts and being their bum boy?

In the matches against United, City and Chelsea, Arsenal must adopt the approach and have the expectations of other small teams in the league, which is to hope to get lucky and nick the odd point here or there, but mainly try to come out with a bit of pride and team morale intact. That was surely achieved, so job done. We are a (self-imposed) second tier team.

we were shit, united were shit, the referee was shit. we gave them the two goals by being slightly shitter then they were.

Nothing will change till the club is rid of Kroenke, Gazidis and PHW. Blood sucking leeches pillage the club by selling off our best players every season to secure their profits. This after investing fuck all into the club.

Wenger staying on and putting up with this shit does nothing for his image. He used to be a winner prior to the arrival of this cadre of Board members and change in ownership, so the problem can't be just him. But it seems he's made a pact with the devil (our Board of course) and has to keep silent for fear of losing his high profile job should he utter a word of being straddled with a tight, almost non-existent transfer budget, season after season.

This shit is beyond frustrating now.

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Originally Posted by jelgoon

Gary Neville saying we wont win the league. Manc **** -so biased never liked us. Of course we have a massive chance of winning the league. Remember we have Diaby to come back

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They should call him bullet he is so fast.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Didnt you see what colour shirt RvC was wearing today? How do you factor that into your one dimensional assessment? Do you really believe we'd be up there competing if only Wenger would ring you up for the team selection and tactics? there's more to it than your crayola analysis.

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That's true actually, we need the board out as well, because at the moment they share the same ideology (I've said numerous times before that I am strongly against Kroenke and his lackeys)

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

we were shit, united were shit, the referee was shit. we gave them the two goals by being slightly shitter then they were.

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The game was shit. Miss the old Keane Vs Vieira Days tbh

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Originally Posted by RomfordPele

Sky baiting wenger over second Wilshere yellow. Perfect day for them.

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why shouldn't they?

fergie's management was excellent today. saw cleverly was close to a red and took him off immediately.

wenger - who has already driven wilshere into the ground once before - tried testing his luck again and it didn't pay off. mind you, our bench is shit so im not sure he had a choice.

but he did have a choice over the summer and he failed to strengthen.

you create your own luck.

Because I want to?

I don't like seeing this shower of sh*t we see every week and I'm not about the pretend it's all Ok after we win the next game. Some people are so fickle, couple games and it's all good they think just like *******, we're miles from being good enough, we can't compete and don't even try, we have a loser of a manager who settles for losing and a board bleeding the club dry...and yet a couple wins and it's all good.....please....[/QUOTE]

About time it is called as it is,well said.

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Originally Posted by Joker

That's true actually, we need the board out as well, because at the moment they share the same ideology (I've said numerous times before that I am strongly against Kroenke and his lackeys)

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Of course we do. We need the whole place fumigated and that includes at least half the losers we have on the players roster.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

why shouldn't they?

fergie's management was excellent today. saw cleverly was close to a red and took him off immediately.

wenger - who has already driven wilshere into the ground once before - tried testing his luck again and it didn't pay off. mind you, our bench is shit so im not sure he had a choice.

but he did have a choice over the summer and he failed to strengthen.

you create your own luck.

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he should have been off though, so should ****face. one for that tackle, was very very late, and two for the yellow he should have got for kicking ball away after the whistle.

however we needed jack today more then they needed cleverly because we were losing. he was the only one who actually tried to do things

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Fergie has the formula for beating us nailed down to a tee. They've looked shaky at the back and in midfield all season but today they looked rock solid. It's not a fluke.

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It might have something to do with us making them look that way.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner

Wouldn't go into the invincibles as I can't be bothered. True enough, our record there is pretty poor relatively. This lifeless and resigned to defeat pile of wank is a phenomenon from about 2008. I can recall one game where we got a point, but that was a dead rubber and even more boring than today. Consistently the same irrespective of circumstance - last year only accentuated by how many they put away. Too easy too predictable and Wenger's fault.

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Pretty much, used to love the old Keane vs Paddy V days, even though we may not have won aload of them games, the football, punch ups, were amazing. Though Reyes did not enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by cheesy bites

Nailed it. There's been this air of fear and resignation to defeat around this team for too long. You'll get some games (like the mental Reading game) where we have the balls to fight back, but too often we just accept our lot and shuffle off with a defeat.

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two things can change that:

1. a complete change of players
2. a complete change of manager

our turnover rate since 2008 has been extraordinarily high, in fact only 1 of our players from OT last year started today (i think).

that tells us changing players wont help.

that leaves only 1 option.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

he should have been off though, so should ****face. one for that tackle, was very very late, and two for the yellow he should have got for kicking ball away after the whistle.

however we needed jack today more then they needed cleverly because we were losing. he was the only one who actually tried to do things

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Do you really think RVC should have been sent off???! That tackle was a clear yellow, you're never going to get a red for that. And he didn't kick the ball away "after" the whistle, there was hardly any gap between the offside call and the shot.

And Cleverly was given a warning, as did Jack for his tackle on RVC. We can't complain about the referee, we deserved to lose. If we don't accept that we'll never improve.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Zimm. Wenger is not a shit manager. For the love of God.

He is a fucking legend, and that should never ever be doubted. He bought the club forward. And managed to keep us champs league with no money. Simple. He is bloody awesome.

BUT. He has played to many games of chance. We are fucked unless something massuve happens at the club. He is too attached to the board. Too attached to the business model. Too attached to his players. Too stubborn. Too arrogant. And too far gone to change it around.

We are utterly unable to change anything at this stinking club. I'm so gutted.

To hear those fans, singing "we love you Arsenal" for 15 mins straight. And nothing will change.

Gutted.

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He's a good manager. On the whole he does some fantastic things but also some ridiculous things - everyone knew Santos was going to get raped today. We had Jenkinson who did well at RB and Sagna could've played at LB and been much better. That was an obvious choice that would've benefited us but he doesn't see those type of things.

Wenger was a legend. Now I have lost all respect for him because he is not putting the club first. He is allowing himself to be the board's puppet. He can see the club being bled dry and he doesn't want to speak out because he's seemingly ok on his salary. You're right - we can't change anything. But Wenger can. He can do something. He chooses not to. And that is spineless.

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Originally Posted by Joker

That's true actually, we need the board out as well, because at the moment they share the same ideology (I've said numerous times before that I am strongly against Kroenke and his lackeys)

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Im sure sure he'll be off when he makes his money, its about who he sells his shares too you can bet it will be to one of his own, who will probs do the same too.

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Originally Posted by topgun

It might have something to do with us making them look that way.

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Exactly. We're a very predictable team with a style of play that is neither here nor there.

Not intelligent enough to be on the level as Barca and other continental teams and not robust enough to overcome domestic challenges either.

Dire.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

why shouldn't they?

fergie's management was excellent today. saw cleverly was close to a red and took him off immediately.

wenger - who has already driven wilshere into the ground once before - tried testing his luck again and it didn't pay off. mind you, our bench is shit so im not sure he had a choice.

but he did have a choice over the summer and he failed to strengthen.

you create your own luck.

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I think the observation was:

a.) the relish the interviewer showed in doing it; and
b.) the palpable lack of respect they showed wenger in the process

You can say Wenger's fault for the shite he's come out with over the years, but don't think you'd ever catch a journo behave that way to red nose.

Minor point maybe, sour grapes possibly on my part - but if you're a ref making a 50/50 decision surely it's a no-brainer to swing behind the decision sky are going to endorse.

Happens time and time again. Didn't matter today, but will do over course of the season.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

two things can change that:

1. a complete change of players
2. a complete change of manager

our turnover rate since 2008 has been extraordinarily high, in fact only 1 of our players from OT last year started today (i think).

that tells us changing players wont help.

that leaves only 1 option.

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Buy better players, then the ones we have.

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Originally Posted by Joker

Do you really think RVC should have been sent off???! That tackle was a clear yellow, you're never going to get a red for that. And he didn't kick the ball away "after" the whistle, there was hardly any gap between the offside call and the shot.

And Cleverly was given a warning, as did Jack for his tackle on RVC. We can't complain about the referee, we deserved to lose. If we don't accept that we'll never improve.

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surely a yellow card is a warning though. im not saying jack shouldnt have gone, he should, however cleverlys was a bad tackle. a final warning should be the yellow card really but if you are going to warn a player after that, at least make sure its not when it is a stonewall yellow card foul.

and yes rvc shoud have gone for two yellows. it was a long gap imo. seen players booked for less.

however i haven't blamed the defeat at all on the ref. ive just said he was shit, he was, but i also said we were shit

He's not good enough anymore. Even if he was to be given £50million a season we wouldnt win anything. He is terrible now mentally and doesnt inspire the players at all. The difference between Wenger and Mourinho/Ferguson in terms of motivation and man-management is enormous. Wenger has been there too long - very few managers last that long and sadly those who do dont have a clue when to leave (as they feel they are invincible)

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Is he not good enough or is he sucking the boards nuts and being their bum boy?

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Originally Posted by jelgoon

He's not good enough anymore. Even if he was to be given £50million a season we wouldnt win anything. He is terrible now mentally and doesnt inspire the players at all. The difference between Wenger and Mourinho/Ferguson in terms of motivation and man-management is enormous. Wenger has been there too long - very few managers last that long and sadly those who do dont have a clue when to leave (as they feel they are invincible)

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But people say if he wanted to he could have brought better players who could have won us stuff, so why the moaning if he does not spend big money if he is not good enough.

I here if he wanted to he could win the league, Or he is a loser he settles for 4th.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

surely a yellow card is a warning though. im not saying jack shouldnt have gone, he should, however cleverlys was a bad tackle. a final warning should be the yellow card really but if you are going to warn a player after that, at least make sure its not when it is a stonewall yellow card foul.

and yes rvc shoud have gone for two yellows. it was a long gap imo. seen players booked for less.

however i haven't blamed the defeat at all on the ref. ive just said he was shit, he was, but i also said we were shit

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Yep. Referee doesn't give cards to Cleverley or RvC, then books Arshavin for his first tackle.

Officials were shocking and cost us a point.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

surely a yellow card is a warning though. im not saying jack shouldnt have gone, he should, however cleverlys was a bad tackle. a final warning should be the yellow card really but if you are going to warn a player after that, at least make sure its not when it is a stonewall yellow card foul.

and yes rvc shoud have gone for two yellows. it was a long gap imo. seen players booked for less.

however i haven't blamed the defeat at all on the ref. ive just said he was shit, he was, but i also said we were shit

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Dean's a **** and we knew that before today, and we all expected crummy decisions from him, not a shock. We were poor today even if the scoreline says something else.

But hey time to put that behind us and on to wednesday i guess.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

Yep. Referee doesn't give cards to Cleverley or RvC, then books Arshavin for his first tackle.

Officials were shocking and cost us a point.

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i forget that they missed the offside that led to the second goal.

we were shit, we lost because of htat, however the ref didnt help. he was fucking awful. (stil we were worse)

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Buy better players, then the ones we have.

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The manager won't that's pretty clear.

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Originally Posted by Syn

He's a good manager. On the whole he does some fantastic things but also some ridiculous things - everyone knew Santos was going to get raped today. We had Jenkinson who did well at RB and Sagna could've played at LB and been much better. That was an obvious choice that would've benefited us but he doesn't see those type of things.

Wenger was a legend. Now I have lost all respect for him because he is not putting the club first. He is allowing himself to be the board's puppet. He can see the club being bled dry and he doesn't want to speak out because he's seemingly ok on his salary. You're right - we can't change anything. But Wenger can. He can do something. He chooses not to. And that is spineless.

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Spot fucking on.

Look at the team I penciled in the match thread. Not saying I'm a football manager. Far from it. But Sagna LB and jenks RB was easy. Theo on the wing, Ramsey dropped. Easy.

Fergie? "stop them playing. Rooney, you follow Arteta all over the place. Carrick, don't give Cazorla a sniff. Congest Jack, as they have no width. We may not play well, but I'm sure we'll get a couple against that defence. Just be diciplined and your chance will come"

Wenger "we shall play our game. Do what tou do so nicely in training and enjoy yourselves"

Utter turd.

No point analysing this game because it didn't involve us, we weren't in it. Walk in the park for Utd, they didn't get out of first gear. Should have been five or six but they were sloppy. A late and meaningless flourish from us made it look unreasonably respectable. Gulf in quality, tactics and desire between these teams. We can't be viewed as a serious football team if we let individuals like Santos wear the shirt.