Ozil - Do we need him?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And the ridiculously underrated Gilberto plus, choke, Cashley Cole.

Mind you, I can go back to Liam Brady. Genius. Pat Jennings was a great keeper from a time of great keepers.

---

Bit before my time that, was born in 83

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Sorry, but that's almost as silly as suggesting Ozil isn't needed. Freddie was a superb player. His misfortune was he played at a time when we had genuine, world beating legends at the club.

---

I'm sorry just don't see it, apart from goals his overall contribution to our game was average

For me in Ramsey I see another Ljungberg, has great little goal scoring patches where he seems indispensable but apart from that you wonder why he's in the team.

Haven't lost with him this season tbf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's not like playing Walcott up front where sometimes it's hard to know what is his best position, there doesn't seem to be any question with Sanchez, it's not just like he's a striker who drifts from that position when he plays up front it looks every inch that we are playing without a striker, it looked that way last night until Giroud came on.

It's not a criticism of Sanchez, there just doesn't appear to be any indication he can play there and certainly not in a formation with three central midfielders and two wide players.

Could he play behind a second striker? Maybe....but to be honest we give away too much space in the middle of the park with three midfielders in the middle, let alone with two.

To be honest it seems like you are desperate to try incorporating a system in order to not play Ozil.

---

There isn't anything personal against Ozil. It's question of style and tactics. How can we get the best out of him with what we have and I think people overestimate his importance. We may be looking at the last days of the lone striker. The type Ozil needs to succeed here, we might not have and is not available on the market.

Walcott up front divides opinion and I doubt we'll see him play there again unless injuries permit it. But Walcott has had games where he's looked anonymous up front but then over the next couple of games looks explosive and like he's adapting. But let's phase him out of the debate.

It's early days for Perez, but from what I saw on Saturday is similar to what I've seen of Sanchez. Dropping deep, drifting wide and really struggling to get into the game. It's a worry that Wenger hooked him after an hour and the next game went with Alexis. I kind of have the feeling we'll have the same sort of problems with Perez because he'd have similar habits when playing up front. I'm really not sure how patient Wenger and the fans will be if he has the same sort of problems.

Which brings us back to having to play Giroud. That's like driving down a dead end again. We've seen Giroud flop so many times and I don't think he works particular well with Ozil. It seems pointless going through another season to see if it works. I don't want to see it unless we're playing with Sanchez or Perez off him. Not Ozil because we've seen how stale that gets. I'll leave out the debate about Ozil needing to get more goals. I'll accept that he's not a goal scorer. But I think we have a problem on our hands if a more mobile and pacey strike force still produces these stale performances.

I understand your concern in that respect, but my argument is if you play Xhaka and Ozil you have a guarantee of the ball being recycled quickly from our own box into the final third that much quicker.

Therefore if Perez and Sanchez both play, one can drift wide and one can take up a more central position and it could be interchangeable like if Walcott and Sanchez were playing there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What you're not seeing is Ozil playing with Henry and Pires and Freddie and the gang. Instead it's Bif, Walnut, and the square peg, round hole Alexis. Of course there's going to be an immense difference in the end result. But surely don't take from that the idea Ozil is deficient, surely take from it the degree by which the manager has let the general standards at this club fall. Ozil has moved from the pinnacle in Spain to a PL team in shocking decline in terms of quality, but still he delivers the best numbers in Europe. If he's not remarkable in your book then nobody can be, because he tops them all when it comes to doing his job - assisting goal scorers and creating scoring chances. What more can be asked of him? You say he needs to shoot more. Why? What the fuck are our strikers up to if we are relying on our playmaker to do the shooting?

---

You still haven't answered where Ozil would fit in a Diego Simeone set up.

I prefer Kevin De Bruyne. That's the influence I expect from a AM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

There isn't anything personal against Ozil. It's question of style and tactics. How can we get the best out of him with what we have and I think people overestimate his importance. We may be looking at the last days of the lone striker. The type Ozil needs to succeed here, we might not have and is not available on the market.

Walcott up front divides opinion and I doubt we'll see him play there again unless injuries permit it. But Walcott has had games where he's looked anonymous up front but then over the next couple of games looks explosive and like he's adapting. But let's phase him out of the debate.

It's early days for Perez, but from what I saw on Saturday is similar to what I've seen of Sanchez. Dropping deep, drifting wide and really struggling to get into the game. It's a worry that Wenger hooked him after an hour and the next game went with Alexis. I kind of have the feeling we'll have the same sort of problems with Perez because he'd have similar habits when playing up front. I'm really not sure how patient Wenger and the fans will be if he has the same sort of problems.

Which brings us back to having to play Giroud. That's like driving down a dead end again. We've seen Giroud flop so many times and I don't think he works particular well with Ozil. It seems pointless going through another season to see if it works. I don't want to see it unless we're playing with Sanchez or Perez off him. Not Ozil because we've seen how stale that gets. I'll leave out the debate about Ozil needing to get more goals. I'll accept that he's not a goal scorer. But I think we have a problem on our hands if a more mobile and pacey strike force still produces these stale performances.

---

You're micro analysing pointlessness. We don't have a style, or a system and we won't have one while the current manager is here. And the current manager won't do a single thing to fine tune the team to the individuals in it. And thank fuck, in a way, because the last time he did it when he put everything in orbit around Fabregas he irreparably destroyed our game.

However, once Wenger fucks off, then everything you are saying suddenly becomes relevant, for all players and all positions.

Has anyone said 'sell him, he's shit' yet?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You still haven't answered where Ozil would fit in a Diego Simeone set up.

I prefer Kevin De Bruyne. That's the influence I expect from a AM.

---

Eh? I assumed we were just ignoring questions. This started when I asked you who you'd replace Ozil with, which you answered with a question. And now I STILL haven't answered?

Come off it. I never mentioned Simeone either, although if we could land him I'd be chuffed. I don't know where Simeone would play Ozil, how could I know that. But I'd have Ozil behind Alexis and Lewandowski if it was up to me. You need that quality (and intelligent) striker to see the best of Ozil. De Brown isn't fit to clean Ozil's boots, but right now he plays in a team with a proper manager and that makes all the difference. Thank fuck Pep doesn't have Ozil at his disposal, that would be scary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

Has anyone said 'sell him, he's shit' yet?

---

Sell him he's shit yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Eh? I assumed we were just ignoring questions. This started when I asked you who you'd replace Ozil with, which you answered with a question. And now I STILL haven't answered?

Come off it. I never mentioned Simeone either, although if we could land him I'd be chuffed. I don't know where Simeone would play Ozil, how could I know that. But I'd have Ozil behind Alexis and Lewandowski if it was up to me. You need that quality (and intelligent) striker to see the best of Ozil. De Brown isn't fit to clean Ozil's boots, but right now he plays in a team with a proper manager and that makes all the difference. Thank fuck Pep doesn't have Ozil at his disposal, that would be scary.

---

You don't replace Ozil. The number 10 role becomes redundant. I think he could benefit from playing a deeper role as a CM to be honest but he's a bit lightweight.

Hypothetical, but if we play Lewandowski with Alexis up front and Ozil behind, isn't that a diamond system?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I asked you who you'd replace Ozil with

---

Hugh Mungus.

I think your debates with Sherbert has finally caused you to have a stroke and you're now in your recovery P n G.

Though I do recall Ozil actively being ignored by his International team mates for 45 minutes before then finally coming into his own. Ozil has been desperately let down by the manager and his team mates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I think your debates with Sherbert has finally caused you to have a stroke and you're now in your recovery P n G.

Though I do recall Ozil actively being ignored by his International team mates for 45 minutes before then finally coming into his own. Ozil has been desperately let down by the manager and his team mates.

---

:lol: Am I out of line?

Last season was a travesty. The manager and players certainly didn't help Ozil but seeing where we are this season, I worry we'll see a repeat of that because I don't think Wenger will be patient with Sanchez or Perez up front. Which leads us back to the inevitable inclusion of Giroud. He's not an awful player but if we go down that road, we have to try something different because I can't see Ozil changing or Giroud. Ozil would probably thrive more with an off the shoulder pacey striker, not a target man like Giroud, but Giroud would probably thrive more off a more aggressive mobile AM or shadow striker.

How do you see things in light of what happened last season? The transfer window is over and Wenger isn't going anywhere for now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You don't replace Ozil. The number 10 role becomes redundant. I think he could benefit from playing a deeper role as a CM to be honest but he's a bit lightweight.

Hypothetical, but if we play Lewandowski with Alexis up front and Ozil behind, isn't that a diamond system?

---

I wouldn't know, I don't pay any attention to any of that. All I know is if you get those 3 on a pitch and get them near the opposition goals then you'll score goals. Supplement with players who can cross a ball, and pass and have a bit of ambition and you're in good shape. The more I think about our summer signings the more bizarre it all seems. The club was willing to spend 90mill after all, or forced to, or whatever. But we weren't willing to go out and get that striker we've needed for an age, and I don't pay any attention to the idea none were available. That's BS, in the world of football it's about the money. Put the money on the table and the greedy bastards who are up for a cut will make any deal happen.

Instead we end up with a rag-tag bunch of overpriced second raters, with the exception of Xhaka perhaps. Ok, not good. Then the first CL game comes along and that manager sits the new CM and striker on the bench.

I really don't think there's any point in trying to figure out what's happening at Arsenal any more. There's no plan, no system, no anything except crazy randomness. Bit like a drunk pilot wildly lurching away from one looming mountaintop and towards the next, all while flying upsidedown because he's too drunk to know which way is up. The crash is inevitable. Trying to figure out the best formation at Arsenal is like inquiring when the drinks will be served on that crazy plane.

So, we wait for the next fireball but this time we don't let that oiled up pilot anywhere near the controls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I wouldn't know, I don't pay any attention to any of that. All I know is if you get those 3 on a pitch and get them near the opposition goals then you'll score goals. Supplement with players who can cross a ball, and pass and have a bit of ambition and you're in good shape. The more I think about our summer signings the more bizarre it all seems. The club was willing to spend 90mill after all, or forced to, or whatever. But we weren't willing to go out and get that striker we've needed for an age, and I don't pay any attention to the idea none were available. That's BS, in the world of football it's about the money. Put the money on the table and the greedy bastards who are up for a cut will make any deal happen.

Instead we end up with a rag-tag bunch of overpriced second raters, with the exception of Xhaka perhaps. Ok, not good. Then the first CL game comes along and that manager sits the new CM and striker on the bench.

I really don't think there's any point in trying to figure out what's happening at Arsenal any more. There's no plan, no system, no anything except crazy randomness. Bit like a drunk pilot wildly lurching away from one looming mountaintop and towards the next, all while flying upsidedown because he's too drunk to know which way is up. The crash is inevitable. Trying to figure out the best formation at Arsenal is like inquiring when the drinks will be served on that crazy plane.

So, we wait for the next fireball but this time we don't let that oiled up pilot anywhere near the controls.

---

We can’t overlook that sort of stuff. This is how I imagine it would look if we played with two strikers, Ozil behind with wide players that can cross. We’ll never get Lewandowski but we can look at it.

-----------Alexis-------Lewandowski------

--------------------Ozil--------------------
Iwobi---------------------------Ox/Walcott
------------------Xhaka--------------------

Monreal------Kos------Mustafi------Bellerin

-------------------Cech--------------------

Swap out the players you don’t think should be starting but we’d be pretty open and fucked over quickly. We’d only have one DM playing if we’re trying to play with wide men. Unless we play the old AC Milan style diamond with the wingbacks overlapping for width and 4 central players making up the diamond. Or it’s a case of playing 3 at the back like Juve do.

This is all hypothetical of course. Nothing will change with Wenger but even if did change or we changed manager, I highly doubt we’d ever see Ozil playing behind two strikers. He’d have to played out wide and allowed to push in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mastermind84

if Alexis ran behind more, he would have more goals and Ozil would have more assists. He doesnt. Thats why he sucks at striker. He chases the ball too much and doesnt stay advanced.

---

The point is he does make runs behind and those goals are the proof. Most of our players always come short to get the ball to feet, but Alexis is one of the few who does actually look to break the lines.

He also chases back and tries to win the ball back because that's the type of player he is. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I wouldn't know, I don't pay any attention to any of that. All I know is if you get those 3 on a pitch and get them near the opposition goals then you'll score goals. Supplement with players who can cross a ball, and pass and have a bit of ambition and you're in good shape. The more I think about our summer signings the more bizarre it all seems. The club was willing to spend 90mill after all, or forced to, or whatever. But we weren't willing to go out and get that striker we've needed for an age, and I don't pay any attention to the idea none were available. That's BS, in the world of football it's about the money. Put the money on the table and the greedy bastards who are up for a cut will make any deal happen.

Instead we end up with a rag-tag bunch of overpriced second raters, with the exception of Xhaka perhaps. Ok, not good. Then the first CL game comes along and that manager sits the new CM and striker on the bench.

I really don't think there's any point in trying to figure out what's happening at Arsenal any more. There's no plan, no system, no anything except crazy randomness. Bit like a drunk pilot wildly lurching away from one looming mountaintop and towards the next, all while flying upsidedown because he's too drunk to know which way is up. The crash is inevitable. Trying to figure out the best formation at Arsenal is like inquiring when the drinks will be served on that crazy plane.

So, we wait for the next fireball but this time we don't let that oiled up pilot anywhere near the controls.

---

Brilliant :haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I’ve seen a lot of talk of Ozil checking out early for the season and looking for the exit but do we really want him here if that’s the case? I’m usually on side with the players when it comes to this sort of issue but not in this case. I don’t think Ozil has done anything to warrant such high praise.

People point to what he did last season as proof of his quality but I’m still not convinced. After Christmas he checked out for the rest of the season. When I compare that purple patch/run of good form with other players, such as Ramsey 2013/14 season (34 games, 16 goals, 10 assists) or even Theo’s run (43 games, 21 goals, 16 assists), I’d take either of those guys replicating that form over Ozil’s 45 games, 8 goals and 20 assists.

Maybe he’s hung over from the Euros and needs to get up to speed but it’s disheartening to see us play games without Giroud and have all out pace up front and he’s not threading anyone through. His influence on the game has to extend beyond one decent pass. The chances he’s creating aren’t even killer through balls that sets us up with chance after chance. Heck, against Southampton the stats will say he created 4 chances but not one of those were clear cut one on ones. I really don’t rate him as a playmaker and won’t lose any sleep if he leaves. He’s not essential and I’ll have to see a massive improvement to think otherwise.

---

PnG, I know it's already been covered, but I am of the opinion that whilst Ozil is not essential, he's still a great player to have and is simply being tasked with a role that doesn't bear the fruits of his productivity.

He's not perfect, not by any means...he does go into hiding in some BIG games too, for me though...the major issue is that he simply doesn't have the required quality up top to put away the many chances he creates.

Wenger has absolutely failed to buy a top quality striker and he's had 100 of millions to spend over the past 3, what 4 seasons? he's not found anyone...it's ludicrous and a sackable offence.

That aside, I think Ozil doesn't score enough, Wenger did mention it last season and Ozil sniped that his job is to create, sure, his job is to also score goals, especially if he's playing that high up the pitch. Fabregas scored a lot of goals for us in his prime whilst creating a lot of assists, there is no reason why Ozil shouldn't be expected to do the same. Ozil should be comfortably hitting double figures every single season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penguin

The point is he does make runs behind and those goals are the proof. Most of our players always come short to get the ball to feet, but Alexis is one of the few who does actually look to break the lines.

He also chases back and tries to win the ball back because that's the type of player he is. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

---

Alexis mixes it. The guys the shortest guy on the pitch and will score from a header! That comes from making good runs.

Theo is a player that spends the majority of his time on the pitch making runs in behind defenders. He can go games without making a worthwhile contribution but in theory you'd think Ozil would pick him out a lot more and he'd have way more chances on goal. It should be relentless from the pair if it were that simple. Mastermind is off with this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by selassie

PnG, I know it's already been covered, but I am of the opinion that whilst Ozil is not essential, he's still a great player to have and is simply being tasked with a role that doesn't bear the fruits of his productivity.

He's not perfect, not by any means...he does go into hiding in some BIG games too, for me though...the major issue is that he simply doesn't have the required quality up top to put away the many chances he creates.

Wenger has absolutely failed to buy a top quality striker and he's had 100 of millions to spend over the past 3, what 4 seasons? he's not found anyone...it's ludicrous and a sackable offence.

That aside, I think Ozil doesn't score enough, Wenger did mention it last season and Ozil sniped that his job is to create, sure, his job is to also score goals, especially if he's playing that high up the pitch. Fabregas scored a lot of goals for us in his prime whilst creating a lot of assists, there is no reason why Ozil shouldn't be expected to do the same. Ozil should be comfortably hitting double figures every single season.

---

I hear you. Wenger really should have addressed the striker situation seasons ago because now it looks like we won’t find a striker capable of playing the solo striker role. Looking around Europe, most teams that don’t have a complete striker and two crazy creative goal machine wingers playing on either side of them play some sort of two striker system to compensate. The football we’re trying to play is too complex and intricate for the personnel we have. We have limited players Hence, why I think we need to change the system if this continues.

That's where I question Ozil and we’ll see if things get better now that we have more players capable of making runs behind the defence. Whether it’s possible to pick them out is another story. Stick Perez up front with Sanchez and Walcott as the wingers and that’s all Ozil should need to carve a defence up (in theory) I doubt that will be the case. We’re seeing Sanchez dropping deep and wide to get touches on the ball when playing up front. We’ve seen that with Perez and there were games last season early on where Walcott wasn’t touching the ball in the box either. It may take some adjustment time for that to happen. Seeing how quickly people are writing off Sanchez knowing his skill set has me even more worried about Perez.

Perez is a playmaker converted into a striker, only has one season up front to his name and used to playing with more space ahead of him and a strike partner. If Ozil and Sanchez can't find a rhythm, I worry about Perez and how much time he'd have up front. But I also think a player like Ozil should be able to find these players that have pace and make runs. They only drop deep and wide because the balls aren't being played. Maybe when Xhaka plays as well we'll see people making more runs when he's on the ball because they can anticipate him making that sort of pass.

There is much to ponder as the season plays out. For certain games, I honestly think he could set ourselves up with Xhaka and Elneny as a holding two and hit teams on the break by playing two strikers. It's not as if we're benefitting from playing a 3 man system when it comes to defending. But anyway.....we'll probably come back to this one when Ozil plays a blinder and when he has a stinker! :lol:

It sounds to me like you are saying the world's best assister and chance creator is no good at assisting and creating chances.

I already explained it to you. The balls aren't going forward because Wenger is a massive, massive cock.

Is this still going on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Is this still going on?

---

There is a bit of a Cazorla box to box player thing going on here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

It sounds to me like you are saying the world's best assister and chance creator is no good at assisting and creating chances.

I already explained it to you. The balls aren't going forward because Wenger is a massive, massive cock.

---

:lol: You did that on purpose.

To an extent yes. The system we have isn't helping matters but intuition has to come into it somewhere. I really don't what Wenger is saying and what he's not saying to the players. We hate the tippy tappy stuff and the way we often overplay but we don't have that problem with Theo or Sanchez. Theo hardly gets involved in the link up play and has been getting away with it for years now, whilst Alexis sometimes holds on to the ball for too long. Then we also have Wenger on record saying Ozil needs to score more goals. But regardless of Wenger's instructions, I would expect some common sense from these players. They're not robots and should be able to adjust as a situation develops.

Passive aggressive bitches! :lol: Kano and Herb as usual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Passive aggressive bitches! :lol: Kano and Herb as usual.

---

Excuse me one second, i think i can hear a pot calling a kettle black

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I’ve seen a lot of talk of Ozil checking out early for the season and looking for the exit but do we really want him here if that’s the case? I’m usually on side with the players when it comes to this sort of issue but not in this case. I don’t think Ozil has done anything to warrant such high praise.

People point to what he did last season as proof of his quality but I’m still not convinced. After Christmas he checked out for the rest of the season. When I compare that purple patch/run of good form with other players, such as Ramsey 2013/14 season (34 games, 16 goals, 10 assists) or even Theo’s run (43 games, 21 goals, 16 assists), I’d take either of those guys replicating that form over Ozil’s 45 games, 8 goals and 20 assists.

Maybe he’s hung over from the Euros and needs to get up to speed but it’s disheartening to see us play games without Giroud and have all out pace up front and he’s not threading anyone through. His influence on the game has to extend beyond one decent pass. The chances he’s creating aren’t even killer through balls that sets us up with chance after chance. Heck, against Southampton the stats will say he created 4 chances but not one of those were clear cut one on ones. I really don’t rate him as a playmaker and won’t lose any sleep if he leaves. He’s not essential and I’ll have to see a massive improvement to think otherwise.

---

He is quality on his day, keep him. Simples!

http://www.football365.com/news/its-...lem-not-giroud

Quote:

---

It’s Ozil who is Arsenal’s problem
This Euros has given extra weight to the common understanding that there just aren’t that many out-and-out, give him half a chance and you expect him to score, top-class strikers out there. Even less that are realistically available, if any.

So love him or lump him this means Arsenal are almost certain to start another season with Giroud up top. But the thing is he’s quite noticeably had a pretty good tournament, and a lot of Arsenal fans will be lamenting this as proof for Arsene to keep him on as a good enough striker to mount a title challenge, further compounding the ever present Arsenal transfer policy frustation.

So how to solve this? I may be the only one looking at it this way but I dont think Giroud is the problem, I think Ozil is. Stay with me…

Don’t get me wrong, I love Ozil. I think he’s a magician. But I just don’t think he’s playing in the right position. The reason Giroud’s had such a good tournament is because he’s had Griezmann playing just off him, the perfect partner for him to do what he does best: hold up the ball, bring others into play and lay people through to score – generally being one of the least selfish strikers going, not the main focal point for scoring goals. Arsenal’s problem is that Ozil doesn’t compliment that, he can pick a pass like no other, but doesn’t look to drive forward and score goals, sometimes even annoyingly so when he seems to look to set up a teammate even when perfectly placed to shoot. This for me is a big part of why sometimes we just can’t break teams down.

So to get the most from Giroud we need a player more akin to Griezmann to play that role just off him, within the squad I’d say the most suited players would be Sanchez and Ramsey, who could really bring out the best in him, although the former seems to much prefer playing out wide and cutting in and the latter if he can carry his international form into the new season. Past that I’m sure there are plenty of names you could pull out of the transfer gossip lucky dip but while the list of those that are actually realistic is probabably quite short, it’s pretty clear that there are more viable attacking mids out there than there are strikers.

Now where does this leave Ozil? He obviously has to play. You could shunt him out wide, but could he be perfect in the role Santi played before his highly unfortunate injury? I’m sure many people will scoff at this but he’s got the perfect range of passing for the position, there’s been concrete stats showing him consitantly covering more distance than any other Arsenal player so we can put that lazy myth to bed and hell, I’ve even seen him get stuck in sometimes – not that tackling was ever a strong part of Santi’s game.

In my humble opinion I really think this would work well for Arsenal, have him deeper spraying passes about and let someone more suited to working alongside Giroud do his thing in the centre, if perhaps only when not playing against the teams where we’d really need a more robust Xhaka/Coquelin/Elneny holding pair.

In an ideal world for this to work (for the love of God please) we’d actually just buy Griezmann, but that’s probably wishful thinking…

---

Food for thought and partly what I've tried to explain on this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

http://www.football365.com/news/its-...lem-not-giroud



Food for thought and partly what I've tried to explain on this thread.

---

All this says is that Wenger's incompetent. It's for the manager to utilise his players in the most effective manner and Wenger has been incapable of that for many years. Get rid of Wenger and many, many problems just fade away overnight.

it makes the assertion that Giroud had a good tournament? did he.....he scored three goals in seven games (scoring in two of the games against Romania and Iceland)

Iceland are very good, actually :sulk:

:(

Yes and don't forget that horrendous miss when he was through on goal 1 on 1 with the keeper and only needed to look up and pass to Griezmann for a tap in.

He wasn't very good at all in fact, very average, he's Mr average really.

That's the wrong focus. No striker besides Griezmann really stood out and that's the whole point. Giroud scored 3 which is joint second but his play is complimented Griezmann's style.

Quote:

---

Don’t get me wrong, I love Ozil. I think he’s a magician. But I just don’t think he’s playing in the right position. The reason Giroud’s had such a good tournament is because he’s had Griezmann playing just off him, the perfect partner for him to do what he does best: hold up the ball, bring others into play and lay people through to score – generally being one of the least selfish strikers going, not the main focal point for scoring goals. Arsenal’s problem is that Ozil doesn’t compliment that, he can pick a pass like no other, but doesn’t look to drive forward and score goals, sometimes even annoyingly so when he seems to look to set up a teammate even when perfectly placed to shoot. This for me is a big part of why sometimes we just can’t break teams down.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's the wrong focus. No striker besides Griezmann really stood out and that's the whole point. Giroud scored 3 which is joint second but his play is complimented Griezmann's style.

---

That's because the natural tendency in European football is extreme conservatism. There's so much money at stake that the emphasis has shifted from winning to not losing and this has seen huge negativity break out across the game. In the negative formations (except when Leicester City shot that to death) and the bog standard destroyers that are masquerading as football players. Every aspect of the game is regressive. And boring. Boring, boring, boring. Pep has been feted as a genius coach, but he's boring too. Some of his Barca teams played the most boring football the world has ever seen. But it was effective and got the points and so the entertainment didn't matter. The modern game has allowed non-footballers to thrive. Farmers with huge amounts of energy and zero talent. They can't pass, cross a ball, they have no intelligence and absolutely no love of the game. It's the one thing I will always give Wenger credit for. He presided over genuinely beautiful football, the way the game should be played. He still had big and powerful players but they were talented too and they had a natural flair for playing the game in such a way that engrossed the fans and made them jump out of seats and just love every minute of it. Now look at the shit that is the modern game. And look at the amount of money these turd managers and turd players are getting paid to deliver nothing. Giroud being a fine example. As said, there's no bigger Mr Average in the game.

I still get a buzz from watching that Copa final. That was football. Something the Europeans have forgotten all about as they count their money.

And Ozil. He's from the old school. A real football player. God forbid we ever lose these players from the game because what the fuck is left? If we ever aspire to playing football again then Ozil is the foundation on which we build.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

That's because the natural tendency in European football is extreme conservatism. There's so much money at stake that the emphasis has shifted from winning to not losing and this has seen huge negativity break out across the game. In the negative formations (except when Leicester City shot that to death) and the bog standard destroyers that are masquerading as football players. Every aspect of the game is regressive. And boring. Boring, boring, boring. Pep has been feted as a genius coach, but he's boring too. Some of his Barca teams played the most boring football the world has ever seen. But it was effective and got the points and so the entertainment didn't matter. The modern game has allowed non-footballers to thrive. Farmers with huge amounts of energy and zero talent. They can't pass, cross a ball, they have no intelligence and absolutely no love of the game. It's the one thing I will always give Wenger credit for. He presided over genuinely beautiful football, the way the game should be played. He still had big and powerful players but they were talented too and they had a natural flair for playing the game in such a way that engrossed the fans and made them jump out of seats and just love every minute of it. Now look at the shit that is the modern game. And look at the amount of money these turd managers and turd players are getting paid to deliver nothing. Giroud being a fine example. As said, there's no bigger Mr Average in the game.

I still get a buzz from watching that Copa final. That was football. Something the Europeans have forgotten all about as they count their money.

---

That's a blanket statement. You mentioned Lewandowski as an ideal striker for this club so you can't fully agree with all of the above. Besides, we have a South American that's far from conservative leading the line but it's not really working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And Ozil. He's from the old school. A real football player. God forbid we ever lose these players from the game because what the fuck is left? If we ever aspire to playing football again then Ozil is the foundation on which we build.

---

So we have a Ozil playing behind the South American type you like. What's the problem? Before you jump straight to Wenger being the issue, think about it.

Ozil certainly is not from the old school. He's very conservative, doesn't take risks and plays the percentages.

Absolute nonsense PnG. What's happened to football is so obvious that the piss is making bruises as it hits your face. And yet we have some people saying, oh dear, how can we tinker with this just a little to get a different outcome? It's just silly.

You have some sort of agenda biased against Ozil. Any fool can look at the guy playing the game and come away appreciating he's a top class footballer. For that to be in question is ridiculous. It doesn't warrant a debate. However, it's perfectly legitimate to ask if we are getting the best from this player given our setup and our (ahem) tactics. We aren't. I'm not sure anyone disagrees with that. It's frustrating. We have a world class player on our hands and we can't seem to use those talents to the best effect. I wonder why that is? certainly not because the player lacks talent. And certainly not because he's established himself right up there with Messi as the most effective influencer in world football. I mean these are the facts, right? We know the guy can do it because he's done it. Right in front of our eyes.

So why is he not doing it now? Could it be that he's suddenly lost all his talent? Or could it be because we have an idiot in charge of the club?

I wonder? What could the most realistic answer be?

Wenger does this. He passes off the blame to anywhere and everywhere to avoid the glaring issue at the very heart of this club. The cancer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's a blanket statement. You mentioned Lewandowski as an ideal striker for this club so you can't fully agree with all of the above. Besides, we have a South American that's far from conservative leading the line but it's not really working.

---

There are the odd few players, LIKE OZIL, who rise above this shite. Obviously.