Match Reaction v Spurs (Home - PL 16/17)

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Originally Posted by Kano

I don't know a Maureen led Utd will beat us at all. Nor did I think that before kick off Sunday. I knew it would be tough because of th type of team Spuds are now. He's past his peak and massively underperforming with that team, doing even worse than Van Fraud. The same was being said about Chelsea before we spanked them. It's very easy to look back in hindsight and say 'yes but they were rubbish or not the same team as now'. The point being, even when they were underperforming the thinking was we would struggle against them because we always do. It's the same reasoning being applied to the Utd game.

All I'm doing is taking it game by game and enjoying the good stuff. If we fail? So what. It's just football and back again we start next season. If people want to ignore patterns or hope for the best or have a different opinion, again, so what? Nothing apart from hope on a short term basis is lost. Those that go to games have a bigger decision to make because of their literal investment.

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Always the voice of reason Kano ;)

I hear you and I'll admit that I have enjoyed a lot of our football so far this season too, it's been positive and exciting. The performances over the past few weeks have been a cause for concern though, even the CL comeback game, we were a mess defensively.

I dunno...I just see us slipping back into bad old habits, Midfield for instance is a bit of a mess without Santi...we just look disjointed again.

I agree people are free to post whatever they want and whilst some of us will choose to bring up problems of the past, others will choose to ignore them.

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Originally Posted by bignev

Once again Letters is on point.

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You'll be telling us the same thing again next season, like you've been for past seasons now.

Unreal that you trot out the same silly lines every season during our mini runs, and utterly ironic that you're always quick to ridicule those who can identify the indicators that nothing has changed, and won't ever, under the stewardship your Lord and Master.

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Originally Posted by selassie

It's not so much panic but more a case of applying logic to seeing the same patterns repeated season after season. I can't claim to know for certain if we are going to win the league or not but I can base my prediction off past performances.

It is also very debateable to whether this team IS in fact any better than the team of last season or previous teams, it's different, but claiming it is better off the back of a good run albeit against teams we have been EXPECTED to beat is extremely debateable.

Sunday was typical, we had a chance to go top and we didn't, it was classic Arsenal...a little bit of pressure and out come the handbrakes! We all knew we wouldn't win on Sunday, we all know that a Mourinho lead Man United will beat us after the international break, it's all very predictable and boring.

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We’ve had so many yo yo moments with our form in the past, I’m beyond trying to sense predict where we’ll end up this year. But when it comes to recognising patterns, besides looking at isolated results, I can’t say I recognise anything significant that has set the alarm bells off. I mean in terms of Wenger being Wenger. If he’d have gone into that game with Giroud and Ramsey starting, I’d worry. Results will fluctuate throughout the season and we don’t have to beat our rivals to win the league. The real shift I want to see is in Wenger’s thinking and approach.

Has he adjusted and is he trying something new? So far, he’s kept Giroud and Ramsey at bay and he has spent money in the summer, and I’d say he’s overspent on Xhaka and Mustafi and we didn’t need Perez if he had decided on Sanchez playing as striker. That’s a shift in team selection and transfer policy. That’s a good sign in my book but that doesn’t vindicate Wenger. I’m still watching closely, but so far so good. That’s all he can do at the moment. I’m not expecting a complete tactical overhaul, but I hope the players step their game up and if they can’t, Wenger reacts to it.

I really have no idea if this team is better than last year’s but it’s safe to say the competition is a lot better. Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Spurs are showing good form and we can’t forget about Utd either. Time will tell. The draw against Spurs hasn’t really changed my view on the team overall.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

We’ve had so many yo yo moments with our form in the past, I’m beyond trying to sense predict where we’ll end up this year. But when it comes to recognising patterns, besides looking at isolated results, I can’t say I recognise anything significant that has set the alarm bells off. I mean in terms of Wenger being Wenger. If he’d have gone into that game with Giroud and Ramsey starting, I’d worry. Results will fluctuate throughout the season and we don’t have to beat our rivals to win the league. The real shift I want to see is in Wenger’s thinking and approach.

Has he adjusted and is he trying something new? So far, he’s kept Giroud and Ramsey at bay and he has spent money in the summer, and I’d say he’s overspent on Xhaka and Mustafi and we didn’t need Perez if he had decided on Sanchez playing as striker. That’s a shift in team selection and transfer policy. That’s a good sign in my book but that doesn’t vindicate Wenger. I’m still watching closely, but so far so good. That’s all he can do at the moment. I’m not expecting a complete tactical overhaul, but I hope the players step their game up and if they can’t, Wenger reacts to it.

I really have no idea if this team is better than last year’s but it’s safe to say the competition is a lot better. Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Spurs are showing good form and we can’t forget about Utd either. Time will tell. The draw against Spurs hasn’t really changed my view on the team overall.

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Fair play P'nG, can't argue with any of that. The Man Utd game away is a big test, if we can come out of that undefeated then it's fair to say some progress is being made. I'd actually take a point now from that game if offered it.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Fair play P'nG, can't argue with any of that. The Man Utd game away is a big test, if we can come out of that undefeated then it's fair to say some progress is being made. I'd actually take a point now from that game if offered it.

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Forget the test. That game is about pride. Wenger has to finally beat Mourinho. He has to. It's been too long and would love it even more if we could really crush them.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

The draw against Spurs hasn’t really changed my view on the team overall.

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I don't think a win would have changed anyone's either, and the usual suspects would have just waited for their next opportunity for a whine.
And maybe they're right, chances are they probably are. Personally I'd rather just enjoy how things are going which, so far, is quite well thanks.
While we're in the title mix I'm fairly content. Even if we'd won and gone top there would still be a suspicion we'll fluff our lines later.

If a new manager had come in and got the results we've got so far this season I don't believe they'd be getting stick for it.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don't think a win would have changed anyone's either, and the usual suspects would have just waited for their next opportunity for a whine.
And maybe they're right, chances are they probably are. Personally I'd rather just enjoy how things are going which, so far, is quite well thanks.
While we're in the title mix I'm fairly content. Even if we'd won and gone top there would still be a suspicion we'll fluff our lines later.

If a new manager had come in and got the results we've got so far this season I don't believe they'd be getting stick for it.

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Our results haven't been bad at all. The derby was disappointing but I didn't really expect a massive reaction on here. Well, there hasn't really been a massive reaction in numbers. But I do get the sense that people are waiting on the next bad result to go ape. We're going to lose and drop points this season. But as said in my previous post, I'm looking more at what Wenger does and how he reacts.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Always the voice of reason Kano ;)

I hear you and I'll admit that I have enjoyed a lot of our football so far this season too, it's been positive and exciting. The performances over the past few weeks have been a cause for concern though, even the CL comeback game, we were a mess defensively.

I dunno...I just see us slipping back into bad old habits, Midfield for instance is a bit of a mess without Santi...we just look disjointed again.

I agree people are free to post whatever they want and whilst some of us will choose to bring up problems of the past, others will choose to ignore them.

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Just old age mate.

I see the defensive issues, some of the performances haven't been great but I also can't be arsed to over analyse anymore. There's too much of that and now every misplaced pass, shot or bad tackle is jumped upon too quickly. If I was paying to go to games as I did for a long time at Highbury, maybe I'd see it differently, I don't know. If it goes tits up again I'll be disappointed but not overly surprised as that was the prediction at the start of the season anyway. While we have our problems, so do all the teams around us, there isn't a stand out team, no matter how the shitty pundits try to spin it. It won't be a 5 horse race to the finish line as they always sell it in the early stages of the season, one or two will drop off after Xmas and the gaps will develop. I don't think it will be us scrapping for 4/5th and we'll be in the pack above and if the team surprises me and does better than that, then I'll be a happy fella.

I can see it from both sides, we are in the Mix, but i also think we have had far easier fixtures than Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool who are above us.

I haven't seen anything that convinces me that we are going to challenge for the title until the end of the season.

On the other hand for anything to be basing that belief on one result does seem somewhat kneejerk, i was unconvinced before the Spurs game i am no more convinced after it but no less convinced either, and i wouldn't be much more convinced had we sneaked a win.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I can see it from both sides, we are in the Mix, but i also think we have had far easier fixtures than Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool who are above us.

I haven't seen anything that convinces me that we are going to challenge for the title until the end of the season.

On the other hand for anything to be basing that belief on one result does seem somewhat kneejerk, i was unconvinced before the Spurs game i am no more convinced after it but no less convinced either, and i wouldn't be much more convinced had we sneaked a win.

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What game or what run of games would convince you?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

What game or what run of games would convince you?

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And can I add to that, HCZ, have you seen anything which makes you think we can't?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

What game or what run of games would convince you?

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I would say getting something from one or both of the Manchester games (at the very least not losing both of them) and winning tougher away games like West Ham and Everton in December

Finishing top of our champions league group

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Originally Posted by Letters

And can I add to that, HCZ, have you seen anything which makes you think we can't?

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I think there are times where we have struggled to break teams who sit deep down - Burnley, Middlesbrough etc

Been sloppy defensively

None of this is evidence that we "can't win" but it certainly doesn't give me much belief that we can.

:good:

I think that's fair enough.

For me while we're in the mix I feel we have a chance.

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Originally Posted by Letters

:good:

I think that's fair enough.

For me while we're in the mix I feel we have a chance.

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Ever the optimist you are.

I would love to be pleasantly surprised, but until we actually do it, I will assume complete meltdown at some point which see's us throw it all away.

I'm pretty worried about our run in - think it's Spurs away and City at home in our last 4 games.
That's what I think could do for us. But I do think we've got the best squad we've had for a long time this year.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'm pretty worried about our run in - think it's Spurs away and City at home in our last 4 games.
That's what I think could do for us. But I do think we've got the best squad we've had for a long time this year.

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I used to have your optimism, but it's been knocked out of me.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I would say getting something from one or both of the Manchester games (at the very least not losing both of them) and winning tougher away games like West Ham and Everton in December

Finishing top of our champions league group

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Last season we had a brief spell where we beat Utd and Bayern in close succession, we didn’t lose to City last season and beat them at home, we beat Everton away…..For me, there isn’t a single game or run that can convince me that we’ll win the league. That’s not saying I don’t hope we’ll win. It’s just all very slippery because we could easily look the business around Christmas, beat the big teams and fall away in January. There isn’t a bench mark game you can point to with us that indicates we’ve finally clicked. Last season should have been an eye opener. Not saying we all have to remain pessimistic until the season is over but we’ve been around the block with this team so many times you just have to wait to see what happens at the end of the season. It doesn’t matter who we beat this month, next month or whenever if we’re not at the top of the table after 38 games.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Last season we had a brief spell where we beat Utd and Bayern in close succession, we didn’t lose to City last season and beat them at home, we beat Everton away…..For me, there isn’t a single game or run that can convince me that we’ll win the league. That’s not saying I don’t hope we’ll win. It’s just all very slippery because we could easily look the business around Christmas, beat the big teams and fall away in January. There isn’t a bench mark game you can point to with us that indicates we’ve finally clicked. Last season should have been an eye opener. Not saying we all have to remain pessimistic until the season is over but we’ve been around the block with this team so many times you just have to wait to see what happens at the end of the season. It doesn’t matter who we beat this month, next month or whenever if we’re not at the top of the table after 38 games.

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It's the run of games between now and the end of the year - Utd (a), Bournemouth (h), West Ham (a), Stoke (h), Everton (a), Man City (a), West Brom (h), Crystal Palace (h)

I think we need to be looking to get 19 out of 24 points from those games, so that would include for me winning at West Ham and Everton and getting something from one of the Manchester games.

It's about being able to grind out results when playing tougher opposition and still be in contention when we have played two of our more difficult fixtures.

Don't get me wrong i won't immediately think we will win the title if we do get those points, but it puts us in contention with 43 points from 19 games...considering with the exception of Leicester teams have needed 85+ points for the title the last few years it is a minimum goal.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

What game or what run of games would convince you?

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It's not one game or a run of games. It's the manner of the performances. We've played, what, two, three decent games this season so far? The rest has been dire. Yes, we picked up points but if we expect to keep doing that on the back of the awful defending, the plodding midfield and the wastefulness in front of goal we're dreaming. The other factor is, as always, pressure. You'd back us all day long to fuck up every time we get that opportunity to bat a bit of pressure back on our opponents. When you think how many times our major rivals have had to rebuild through periods of new management and you compare it to the so-called stability we have here it's a fucking joke. Wenger is taking the piss. Again, we have Utd, the gypos and the chavs all working through a management change. We see Klopp (the manager that we should have now) starting to add a bit of consistency to what was a shower of shite. This should be another glorious chance for us but we won't take it. People might be saying, yeah let's wait and see (AGAIN!) but nobody is saying right, I feel confident, let's do this. And that's all down to one guy.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's the run of games between now and the end of the year - Utd (a), Bournemouth (h), West Ham (a), Stoke (h), Everton (a), Man City (a), West Brom (h), Crystal Palace (h)

I think we need to be looking to get 19 out of 24 points from those games, so that would include for me winning at West Ham and Everton and getting something from one of the Manchester games.

It's about being able to grind out results when playing tougher opposition and still be in contention when we have played two of our more difficult fixtures.

Don't get me wrong i won't immediately think we will win the title if we do get those points, but it puts us in contention with 43 points from 19 games...considering with the exception of Leicester teams have needed 85+ points for the title the last few years it is a minimum goal.

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But what's so special about December? Would you be surprised if we won those games but went on to lose it in Spring? Around March/April we have a tough run of games and it's not as if we haven't fell apart towards the end either. I mean in our last 4 games we have Spurs away, Utd home, Stoke away and Everton home. We could just as easily be on the race but fall away at the last hurdle.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But what's so special about December? Would you be surprised if we won those games but went on to lose it in Spring? Around March/April we have a tough run of games and it's not as if we haven't fell apart towards the end either. I mean in our last 4 games we have Spurs away, Utd home, Stoke away and Everton home. We could just as easily be on the race but fall away at the last hurdle.

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Again i am not trying to claim it's definitive, what i'm saying is that i will be more convinced that we can challenge if we get the 19 points out of 24 during that november/december period.

It won't mean that we won't screw things up in february/march/april.....but as i've said those are a tough run of fixtures and our ability to make it through that potential minefield unscathed would suggest that we do have a stronger mentality.

After that, the next test would be our ability to win games and not going through the death spiral when the champions league begins again in February. But keeping ourselves in the mix during a tough run of fixtures and you'd have to say there is potential.

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Originally Posted by Munchies

Same as last year

Wenker out

Shit all over

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Lol. Blud! Blud! This guy is crazy :)
http://youtu.be/3ZMD8O4_3SQ

https://youtu.be/cUrzUFdTh9g

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Lol. Blud! Blud! This guy is crazy :)
http://youtu.be/3ZMD8O4_3SQ

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Wenger :bow:

Troopz (??) is a fucking dickhead. I hope his family gets killed. Fucking nonce.