Match Reaction vs Stoke City (away)

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Effectively, I bet yes.

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No it's still going ahead. People will either choose to boycott or they won't

How many will boycott and whether they would have boycotted if we hadn't won the last three games is like i say just a matter of supposition.

The game is on general sale tomorrow so I don't think there will be much of a protest anyway, I can't imagine those who don't often get a chance to go will waste their experience by protesting.

Any kind of protest will as usual be reduced to a few hundred people with little signs, a portion that are ambivalent and another who are so easily offended they will chant 'one Arsene Wenger'.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Let's look at it in a practical sense.

A couple of weeks back Le Grove was suggesting the Sunderland game would be a good target for fan protest, and gave a bunch of reasons why. A good plan, well reasoned, I thought.

Tomorrow the Sunderland game arrives. What should the fans do? Well, they should still boycott it, for all the reasons that existed before we grabbed a few wins and for all the same reasons that still exist and have not gone away.

But after these few wins what will happen? What are we going to see? That's not to suggest a boycott was a certainty anyway. We've already seen how lame so many of the fans are. No matter how badly you abuse them the wimps roll over and spread their arse cheeks.

It would be great if tomorrow's game turned into a sea of protest. And it would be right too. It'll be all smiles though, I bet, as we put mighty Sunderland to the sword.

And if we somehow manage to get a result against the chavs, you wait and see. All will be forgiven and forgotten and the giant reset button will be pressed and off we go again.

Best part of the Stoke game was the plane and the banner. Think planes and banners are stupid in general, but it seemed to be the only reminder that this guy has to go if this club stands any chance of doing more than wallpapering foundational cracks.

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Is the protest tomorrow? Ok, that makes sense. I won't go.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I definitely think you're full of shit

You are basing this opinion because fans aren't like you, and P n G mentions the Le Grove blogger you remind me of the term he coins "grief porn". I don't think bad results annoy you, they seem to be your sustenance. For fans who go week in, week out however maybe just maybe they don't get high on the same misery as you do and just want to see a good game of football and be able to suspend for a few hours the bigger context.

Football is a form of escapism after all, this idea that you need to reaffirm with every sentence that you want Wenger to go or somehow you are perpetuating the cycle is the kind of nonsense that only an armchair fan could come out with.

I think the boycott of the Sunderland game is a good idea, and you have nothing but pure supposition to suggest that people won't go along with it just because of what happened on Saturday

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An armchair fan like Mr DT, for example? Love him or loathe him, he was there with his banner when the spittle was raining down. And he was there with his predictions too. We were going to win the league at one point, if you recall? It's hard to fathom the fans that seriously thought that. There's escapism, which is fair enough, but outright fantasy is too much.

Under it all, I think we all know what this club and this team is capable of if pushed to the limits that should be a natural benchmark in competitive sport. That's where the fury comes from. Knowing that the people in which huge trust and treasure island resources have been poured into can't push themselves to the same degree as a fan who saves his pennies and jumps in the car for his 20th road trip. It's supposed to be a partnership but it's one-sided as things stand and when you add the obnoxious arrogance of a character like Wenger on top then sure, spitting back at him is highly understandable.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

The game is on general sale tomorrow so I don't think there will be much of a protest anyway, I can't imagine those who don't often get a chance to go will waste their experience by protesting.

Any kind of protest will as usual be reduced to a few hundred people with little signs, a portion that are ambivalent and another who are so easily offended they will chant 'one Arsene Wenger'.

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The protest will be in the non attendance

http://www.onlinegooner.com/article....4#.WRnI13rc1Fs

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

An armchair fan like Mr DT, for example? Love him or loathe him, he was there with his banner when the spittle was raining down. And he was there with his predictions too. We were going to win the league at one point, if you recall? It's hard to fathom the fans that seriously thought that. There's escapism, which is fair enough, but outright fantasy is too much.

Under it all, I think we all know what this club and this team is capable of if pushed to the limits that should be a natural benchmark in competitive sport. That's where the fury comes from. Knowing that the people in which huge trust and treasure island resources have been poured into can't push themselves to the same degree as a fan who saves his pennies and jumps in the car for his 20th road trip. It's supposed to be a partnership but it's one-sided as things stand and when you add the obnoxious arrogance of a character like Wenger on top then sure, spitting back at him is highly understandable.

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DT is still able to enjoy games where we win even though he is probably the poster boy of the Wenger Out faction.

He is not telling anyone they shouldn't celebrate when we win.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The protest will be in the non attendance

http://www.onlinegooner.com/article....4#.WRnI13rc1Fs

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Well, hopefully it happens to the extent that it gets noticed. I would love to see a half empty stadium.

However it's not going to hurt the club where it really matters - financially.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

No it's still going ahead. People will either choose to boycott or they won't

How many will boycott and whether they would have boycotted if we hadn't won the last three games is like i say just a matter of supposition.

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How can it be anything other than supposition? That's the whole thrust of the debate. Have these meaningless wins amounting to our biggest failure to date under Wenger had an impact on the fans and their attitude to Wenger? I'd say, if you asked them if they want Wenger to stay or go, most will still say go. But if it's just a self held opinion that's never acted on then there's no real point having that opinion in the first place. Action is what it takes, ranging from ongoing criticism on social platforms all the way through to direct protest in the stadium.

By the way, a huge chunk of revenue comes from those "armchair" fans these days, far more than comes from the bums on stadium seats. So their protest is just as valid and potentially far more effective. And some of those fans don't want to be in an armchair, but the club priced them out of the stadium.

This is a crunch run-in. Not because of the results and most certainly not because of some cup. If we emerge from this season with more fans tolerant of 2 years more for Wenger than hell bent against it then that's how it's going to be. The anti-Wenger lot will just have to accept it and, I assume, find some other sport to engage them. Because if Wenger somehow finds a way to stay at this club after such an unbroken run of failure the there's no place for fans who want more from the sport than a switch on, consume, switch off experience. Arsenal will be dead as a football club.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

DT is still able to enjoy games where we win even though he is probably the poster boy of the Wenger Out faction.

He is not telling anyone they shouldn't celebrate when we win.

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Who's suggesting that?

Even here on GW in that match thread, everyone was chuffed with a nice bit of orc slaughter. Except PnG :lol: but that was down to retarded Wenger and the team selection and I understand that 100%

Question is, how many fans have been hoodwinked by this latest (and most basic) run of form? And how many were borderline, don't care, and are now fully back in the don't care camp?

Not sure that I care too much myself tbf. But I will get sick in my mouth if that cunt Wenger tries to play this up in any way.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Coquelin has been poor all season though, one game doesn't change that, personally think he's not good enough. Holding has done well and has potential, as for the wing backs, yes they did well problem is there's no real pressure on these games, so it's hard to gauge, the real test is next season.

How many times have we seen this though, wins and decent performances at the end of a season when there's little to play for and then starting a new season and still be ing a shambles, just not convinced these improvement will translate into improvements next season.

It's hard to assess these performances in a similar way it would be in a friendly because these aren't representative of games that happen earlier on in a season when you have pressure and things to play for, you might argue we had the 4th spot to play for, but our chance always relied on other teams droping points, so to some degree the pressure was off.

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One game doesn’t change that he has had a poor season but for the first time in ages, I’ve seen him show some attacking quality. Touches that had him evading defenders to open up more space for himself, neatly weighted passes, attempting to play the ball forward and long….it doesn’t change the overall narrative for whatever reason, he was able to play better and show sides we haven’t seen before.

It’s the same sort of debate I’ve been having here with Ozil. We’ve got examples of players showing they are capable but for whatever reason, they’ve had a poor season. Just adds to the debate of whether these are poor players, not trying or down to mismanagement.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

The game is on general sale tomorrow so I don't think there will be much of a protest anyway, I can't imagine those who don't often get a chance to go will waste their experience by protesting.

Any kind of protest will as usual be reduced to a few hundred people with little signs, a portion that are ambivalent and another who are so easily offended they will chant 'one Arsene Wenger'.

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Agreed. That's why I say the standards of the fans has been dragged down to Wenger's lowly standards. We are almost united in settling for less.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Who's suggesting that?

Even here on GW in that match thread, everyone was chuffed with a nice bit of orc slaughter. Except PnG :lol: but that was down to retarded Wenger and the team selection and I understand that 100%

Question is, how many fans have been hoodwinked by this latest (and most basic) run of form? And how many were borderline, don't care, and are now fully back in the don't care camp?

Not sure that I care too much myself tbf. But I will get sick in my mouth if that cunt Wenger tries to play this up in any way.

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You are the ones asserting for a fact that fans have figuratively taken their trousers down and bent over based on nothing other than the fans were happy with the result.

This is the kind of nonsense Zim comes up with all the time

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I definitely think you're full of shit

You are basing this opinion because fans aren't like you, and P n G mentions the Le Grove blogger you remind me of the term he coins "grief porn". I don't think bad results annoy you, they seem to be your sustenance. For fans who go week in, week out however maybe just maybe they don't get high on the same misery as you do and just want to see a good game of football and be able to suspend for a few hours the bigger context.

Football is a form of escapism after all, this idea that you need to reaffirm with every sentence that you want Wenger to go or somehow you are perpetuating the cycle is the kind of nonsense that only an armchair fan could come out with.

I think the boycott of the Sunderland game is a good idea, and you have nothing but pure supposition to suggest that people won't go along with it just because of what happened on Saturday

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Well yes because you live in this little world where you want change but where people shouldn't actively try to make it happen because it's not the done thing and you find reasons as to why people shouldn't do it.

If you want to see change you make it clear regardless of what happens, otherwise don't expect it to change and don't complain when it all goes pearshaped again like it does every year and has been for as long as I can rememeber.

What we're seeing at the moment is music to the ears of the board and manager, a few wins, fans over the moon, protest dying off and people turning up every week.

Makes me laugh you want to see change but actively argue that people should behave as if they don't want change.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You are the ones asserting for a fact that fans have figuratively taken their trousers down and bent over based on nothing other than the fans were happy with the result.

This is the kind of nonsense Zim comes up with all the time

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Yes just like they were happy last season, the season before that, the season before that and so on. You can clearly see sentiment is changing after a few wins, people seem a lot happier, not so many Wenger out comments etc etc, you may be oblivious to it but you only need to look at the manager and how much more relaxed and confident he is about his position and his team.

All of this does one thing, cements Wengers position even further, you can be happy with the result but still maintain the same atttidue and points you made when you weren't, trouble is that's not what happens at all, what happens is the stance softens towards Wenger and people who want him out become indifferent about making it clear as they're happy with what is happening at that point in time.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Agreed. That's why I say the standards of the fans has been dragged down to Wenger's lowly standards. We are almost united in settling for less.

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Spot on, losers mentality running right through the club tbh, all Wengers doing a few nothing wins at the end of the season and the odd tin pot cup has kept the fans happy for well over a decade.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

He is not telling anyone they shouldn't celebrate when we win.

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Who is telling anyone not to celebrate?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

How can it be anything other than supposition? That's the whole thrust of the debate. Have these meaningless wins amounting to our biggest failure to date under Wenger had an impact on the fans and their attitude to Wenger? I'd say, if you asked them if they want Wenger to stay or go, most will still say go. But if it's just a self held opinion that's never acted on then there's no real point having that opinion in the first place. Action is what it takes, ranging from ongoing criticism on social platforms all the way through to direct protest in the stadium.

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Totally agree, if you want Wenger our but bcome less vocal about it after a few wins, there's no real conviction in your opinion, it's like someone who wants to win the lottery, tells everyone but never buys a ticket.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You are the ones asserting for a fact that fans have figuratively taken their trousers down and bent over based on nothing other than the fans were happy with the result.

This is the kind of nonsense Zim comes up with all the time

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We'll see tomorrow. People who care about these things have tried to organise a sensible protest and they have given fans plenty of notice. So if we can see the effects of that tomorrow, good news. If we get a stadium full of drones then fuck it, the club is done.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You are the ones asserting for a fact that fans have figuratively taken their trousers down and bent over based on nothing other than the fans were happy with the result.

This is the kind of nonsense Zim comes up with all the time

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It sounds like it. NQ said yesterday to put Wenger to one side for one second after the game. I understand that totally. Not sure where everyone is coming from today.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Totally agree, if you want Wenger our but bcome less vocal about it after a few wins, there's no real conviction in your opinion, it's like someone who wants to win the lottery, tells everyone but never buys a ticket.

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Where are people supposed to be more vocal? This is the point. You're looking at immediate reactions to games on AFTV and saying they should still be pissed off despite wanting to celebrate a win.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Well, hopefully it happens to the extent that it gets noticed. I would love to see a half empty stadium.

However it's not going to hurt the club where it really matters - financially.

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Wenger was questioned about the number of empty seats seen recently at home games and the proposed boycott of the Sunderland game, his response was we have sold out of tickets on these games so there is no issue.....:rolleyes:

Unbelievable arrogance of the highest order.

Wenger isn't stupid, he understood the point that was being made but as usual refused to go into dialogue about it.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

This is like finding your favourite tune on the radio as the car is heading over the cliff. The fact is, if fans give it a rest then that will be immediately seized upon and exploited. Now is the time for fans to be more vocal than ever. By all means, have a cheer that the team is (eventually) winning a few (against very poor opposition it should be added), but the pressure on Wenger must be maintained if we want to translate these few wins into something useful down the line.

Also remember that the last significant test we faced in footballing terms (rather than psychological terms) was against the spuds. And we were played off the pitch. We absolutely needed a point in that game, at the very least. We failed.

What we are really seeing in these last few games is not progress - far, far, far from it. We are witnessing what is being spun into another glorious failure. 2% away. Almost did it. Nearly. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

And look at Wenger's team selections. He's learned fuck all.

Here's what the problem is. The standards of the fans have dropped and now approach Wenger's miserable standards. So we mistranslate what we SHOULD be doing anyway, but have failed to do all season, into some measure of success by comparison to a rancid benchmark.

Wenger deserves no credit whatsoever for this rather embarrassing run-in. All we can say, if we are being truthful, is he's a slightly less outrageous fuck-up than he had the potential to be over the course of this miserable season.

And we still aren't playing well by the way. Not by the standards we have set in the past. We are cheering because we have managed to get back to the very basics during limited phases of the last few matches. We can pass again. We can shoot again. We're even getting the odd cross into the box. Hallelujah. Our so-called rivals, that this abusive and money grabbing board suggested we'd be challenging by now, do all that without effort.

Keep the pressure on because failure to do so will mean failure guaranteed on the pitch. That's probably the outcome regardless, but it's worth fighting against it right up until Wenger's pen hits that contract - if for nothing else than to show that, no, we do not accept these shitty standards.

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:gp:

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Where are people supposed to be more vocal? This is the point. You're looking at immediate reactions to games on AFTV and saying they should still be pissed off despite wanting to celebrate a win.

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Are you saying that when we in they should just celebrate the win and not make feelings about other areas clear. Counterproductive IMO, the club doesn't want people not to turn up, it doesn't really want mass demonstrations, it wants people to be happy because it makes life easier.

At the end of the day, these wins are totally meaningless, they don't take away from a miserable season, they do however take pressure off the club because it seems clear that when we win the protests are muted at best, I just think the mood after 3 wins seems to have changed a lot and the club wil be loving it, Wenger is as arrogant as ever and feels justified...it's become easier and easier for him to sign a new contract. Even if we lose to Chelsea in the cup final (which will will IMO), the excuse will be we lost to the Champions and there's no shame in that, trouble is there is shame in what we've seen this season.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Wenger was questioned about the number of empty seats seen recently at home games and the proposed boycott of the Sunderland game, his response was we have sold out of tickets on these games so there is no issue.....:rolleyes:

Unbelievable arrogance of the highest order.

Wenger isn't stupid, he understood the point that was being made but as usual refused to go into dialogue about it.

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The guy always has some kinda smug answer to everything that questions what he's doing, the power has gone to his head and he feels untouchable, as sad state of affairs....he's really destroying this club in more ways than one.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We'll see tomorrow. People who care about these things have tried to organise a sensible protest and they have given fans plenty of notice. So if we can see the effects of that tomorrow, good news. If we get a stadium full of drones then fuck it, the club is done.

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Be interesting to see, previous protests haven't gone well even at the height of the anger, I suspect after a few wins people will only be too happy to turn and support the team against a bunch of no hopers.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Are you saying that when we in they should just celebrate the win and not make feelings about other areas clear. Counterproductive IMO, the club doesn't want people not to turn up, it doesn't really want mass demonstrations, it wants people to be happy because it makes life easier.

At the end of the day, these wins are totally meaningless, they don't take away from a miserable season, they do however take pressure off the club because it seems clear that when we win the protests are muted at best, I just think the mood after 3 wins seems to have changed a lot and the club wil be loving it, Wenger is as arrogant as ever and feels justified...it's become easier and easier for him to sign a new contract. Even if we lose to Chelsea in the cup final (which will will IMO), the excuse will be we lost to the Champions and there's no shame in that, trouble is there is shame in what we've seen this season.

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You specifically mentioned Arsenal Fan TV as a way to gauge the temperature with fans. What did you see that made you feel as though the people have changed their stance? We're talking about an immediate reaction to a game. People celebrating the result. Not Wenger. You get that, right?

What's counterproductive is you saying Wenger will sign a new contract anyway and there is nothing anyone can do. That sort of thinking is what stops protests and people just accept things as they stand.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Has anyone seen Wengers latest press conf. delusional does not even come close to describing it
https://youtu.be/Llfmhyrls7g

“if you look at the Bayern game across the 2 games, in the first half, we were already qualified”?

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Got halfway and couldn't bear listening to it. How many times now?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Got halfway and couldn't bear listening to it. How many times now?

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God those things are so boring, mundane questioning with irritating tapping away on the laptops in the background, what for to tell us what we already know? How about asking some of the questions we really want know about, how about asking him why every season the team collapses when the big prizes are won and how he thinks he's going to change things.

I noticed he mentions the fact that our recent run show we don't need many changes, just to strenghten the squad a little bit....absolutley clueless.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

You specifically mentioned Arsenal Fan TV as a way to gauge the temperature with fans. What did you see that made you feel as though the people have changed their stance? We're talking about an immediate reaction to a game. People celebrating the result. Not Wenger. You get that, right?

What's counterproductive is you saying Wenger will sign a new contract anyway and there is nothing anyone can do. That sort of thinking is what stops protests and people just accept things as they stand.

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Barely anyone saying this changes nothing, mainly positives about the performance and the win and the changes in the system etc etc. It's an immediate reaction of course, but if I'm not happy about something I don't sweep it under the carpet because things have gone well that day, it's still a prevalent issue and still one that needs to be voiced at every opportunity.

Do you disagree, especially with the fans seemingly being so indifferent, if the fans were kicking up a fuss and making it almost untenable for him to stay it might be different, it seems that Arsenal fans that have grown up under Wenger just aren't of that breed, they'll stamp their feet once in a while but then storm disappear as quickly as it arrived, it really suggests it's half hearted wish to have Wenger replaced.

At the end of the day if the hierarchy are happy, then why would they change, change would require a monumental effort from fans, one we're just not seeing...at any other club he would have been hounded out by now.

At the end of the day you don't go to games, you don't take part in any active protest yourself and yet you feel content to tell people how they should be responding. The Arsenal fan tv reaction was match reaction to the game vs Stoke, it wasn't reaction to being asked at the 1,000th of asking is Wenger a cunt?.

If you're honestly telling me that Wenger would have got sacked last year if only the fans were vocal enough you out of you're fucking mind. At the end of the day this season as it stands, Wengers future is still up in the air and I would say that's in no small way due to fan protests and the organisation of fan groups, which you Zim have contributed fuck all towards.

As I said to you before, if you think the fans should be more vociferous towards Wenger you should perhaps show them how it's done. But I suspect it's easier for you to stand back and be a dickhead.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

At the end of the day you don't go to games, you don't take part in any active protest yourself and yet you feel content to tell people how they should be responding. The Arsenal fan tv reaction was match reaction to the game vs Stoke, it wasn't reaction to being asked at the 1,000th of asking is Wenger a cunt?.

If you're honestly telling me that Wenger would have got sacked last year if only the fans were vocal enough you out of you're fucking mind. At the end of the day this season as it stands, Wengers future is still up in the air and I would say that's in no small way due to fan protests and the organisation of fan groups, which you Zim have contributed fuck all towards.

As I said to you before, if you think the fans should be more vociferous towards Wenger you should perhaps show them how it's done. But I suspect it's easier for you to stand back and be a dickhead.

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So what? Doesn't stop me having an opinion I'll say what I like and noone can tell me what I am and I'm not entitled to say. As NQ pointed out for the 1000th time, match reaction or not it makes little difference it's all about whether the pressure is off the manager and club and it is.

Is Wengers future up in the air or has it been decided and are they just waiting for the season to end to announce it, they way I see it only a big effort from the fans could have any influence on this and it seems to me tha'ts gone up in a cloud of smoke, yes there was some bad feeling when we went on a horrible losing run but a lot of that has disappeared now, despite the fact you just put it down to "celebrating a win".

At the end of the day I don't go to matches and don't line their pockets, ultimately that's what keeps this regime going, if they didn't turn up you can bet your bottom dollar Wenger wouldn't still be there, so yes matchday fans have to make a stand otherwise nothing will change.

Oh and your petty insults really undermines your argument.

I've never said you can't say whatever you want

I just happen to think telling people what they should or should not be doing when you haven't lifted a finger towards the end of getting Wenger out makes you a massive hypocrite.

I get tired of the wankers on social media who never go to games throwing insults at fellow fans for not being respectful to the decrepit old dinosaur, without armchair fans on the other side giving them abuse as well for being too passive. So equally if you can't stand to have your opinions scrutinised don't publish them.

Everything you've said still amounts to you believing that the atmosphere should be bad. I know this is hard for someone like you to understand, but being a football fan means you enjoy watching football and watching your team win. People don't enjoy bad atmospheres the way you do.

People don't travel the length of the country to have the arse ache. You can carry banners expressing how you feel or fly planes (like the one at the Britannia which was crowd sourced) but again saying the team played well today is not saying "I want Wenger to stay" it's having an objective view when asked about the singular game.

Do you know what the irony is Zim, you're exactly like Wenger....entrenched in your own sense of being right at the exclusion of all else.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Wenger was questioned about the number of empty seats seen recently at home games and the proposed boycott of the Sunderland game, his response was we have sold out of tickets on these games so there is no issue.....:rolleyes:

Unbelievable arrogance of the highest order.

Wenger isn't stupid, he understood the point that was being made but as usual refused to go into dialogue about it.

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Wenger talks about what he wants to talk about. The old excuse that he was only responding to a question when he utters some bullshit about crap that is nothing to do with him is gone.

He has lots to say about bollox that is nothing to do with our Club, but when there is something important, something staring him in the face, like the Club being torn apart and fans fighting fans, he has fuck all to say because the money is still rolling in for this shitshow.

And the amount of fans that turn up tonight is immaterial because that ain't going on the balance sheet.

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

Wenger talks about what he wants to talk about. The old excuse that he was only responding to a question when he utters some bullshit about crap that is nothing to do with him is gone.

He has lots to say about bollox that is nothing to do with our Club, but when there is something important, something staring him in the face, like the Club being torn apart and fans fighting fans, he has fuck all to say because the money is still rolling in for this shitshow.

And the amount of fans that turn up tonight is immaterial because that ain't going on the balance sheet.

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Also there are a lot of tickets on general sale which might get taken up (although i doubt it) so will be interesting how the club try to spin this.

It's not a surprise though he has tried already to state that the fans who want him out are a small group of malcontents and that the majority of fans are on board with his nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I've never said you can't say whatever you want I just happen to think telling people what they should or should not be doing when you haven't lifted a finger towards the end of getting Wenger out makes you a massive hypocrite. I get tired of the wankers on social media who never go to games throwing insults at fellow fans for not being respectful to the decrepit old dinosaur, without armchair fans on the other side giving them abuse as well for being too passive. So equally if you can't stand to have your opinions scrutinised don't publish them. Everything you've said still amounts to you believing that the atmosphere should be bad. I know this is hard for someone like you to understand, but being a football fan means you enjoy watching football and watching your team win. People don't enjoy bad atmospheres the way you do. People don't travel the length of the country to have the arse ache. You can carry banners expressing how you feel or fly planes (like the one at the Britannia which was crowd sourced) but again saying the team played well today is not saying "I want Wenger to stay" it's having an objective view when asked about the singular game. Do you know what the irony is Zim, you're exactly like Wenger....entrenched in your own sense of being right at the exclusion of all else.

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People are allowed opinions and that's what I'm expressing, but ignorig that it's actually logic, do you really think there's any chance of Wenger going if everyone appears happy, doesn't kick up a fuss and everything appears hunky-dory. Your stance is kinda strange on the one hand you say you want Wenger out and yet you don't support what would be required to achieve this. As for enjoying watching football, I don't enjoy it because it's largely rubbish, yes we get the odd decent result but it's an anomaly in an otherwise repetitive cycle we've seen for 10+ years, there's nothing enjoyable about that, besides if being a football fan involves being taken for a mug then I'll give it a miss thanks, because quite frankly the club take the mick. It's nothing to do with a ense of being right, it's just logic.

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

Wenger talks about what he wants to talk about. The old excuse that he was only responding to a question when he utters some bullshit about crap that is nothing to do with him is gone.

He has lots to say about bollox that is nothing to do with our Club, but when there is something important, something staring him in the face, like the Club being torn apart and fans fighting fans, he has fuck all to say because the money is still rolling in for this shitshow.

And the amount of fans that turn up tonight is immaterial because that ain't going on the balance sheet.

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A really good point. It’s interesting watching his behaviour during this period. I’ve lost a lot of respect for him.

Zim, this is where the argument falls flat.

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If you use AFTV as a guide of what fans think, then they seem encouraged by the tactical change and the results and seemingly seem reasonably happy

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You can't form an overall opinion of the fans stance on Wenger from AFTV people being happy with results.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

A really good point. It’s interesting watching his behaviour during this period. I’ve lost a lot of respect for him.

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Me too.

His latest whinging that some teams are now not giving their all because its the end of the season and they are safe is just another example of when he'd be better off keeping his mouth shut. I am assuming its a dig at West Ham for rolling over against Liverpool, even though Stoke did the same for us just 24 hours previously. Plus it completely misses the point that we fully deserve to be where we are in the league. We were nothing short of pathetic in the months when we were still in touch with the league leaders.

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Originally Posted by Özim

People are allowed opinions and that's what I'm expressing, but ignorig that it's actually logic, do you really think there's any chance of Wenger going if everyone appears happy, doesn't kick up a fuss and everything appears hunky-dory. Your stance is kinda strange on the one hand you say you want Wenger out and yet you don't support what would be required to achieve this. As for enjoying watching football, I don't enjoy it because it's largely rubbish, yes we get the odd decent result but it's an anomaly in an otherwise repetitive cycle we've seen for 10+ years, there's nothing enjoyable about that, besides if being a football fan involves being taken for a mug then I'll give it a miss thanks, because quite frankly the club take the mick. It's nothing to do with a ense of being right, it's just logic.

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I honestly think if fans start whinging despite what the results and performances are, it's easier for the club and the media to pin them as being difficult, entitled and unreasonable.

But still comes back to the point, what are you personally doing to get Wenger out of the club?. You point the fingers at other people but what are you doing rather than sitting back and being critical.....which seems a rather comfortable position to take.

And again the arrogance to tell people what they should or shouldn't enjoy. People being happy with a one off result doesn't mean they are happy with the season and this preoccupation with yours that fans have to be miserable and testy at all times in case Wenger is able to use it to embolden himself is frankly bizarre.

What i'm hearing from you is your own sense of insecurity, that in fact you are deflecting your own sense of nervousness and unhappiness with us winning because it makes Wenger more likely to stay. If you were honest enough to admit that i would have more sympathy, I don't think there is a single person on this site who wasn't concerned that finishing top four would confirm Wenger staying and without any checks and balances on his excesses.....and that includes myself.

But if you are going to every single game because you are a dedicated fan, and you find the constant bad atmosphere and toxicity draining, why on earth would you seek to look for it. People don't revel in it, it's exhausting and depressing so like I say if they want to just have some enjoyment from a result and a performance that wasn't terrible.....I find it bizarre that you resent this so much.

Or actually I don't, I would expect someone who feels that way to be more prepared to take matters into their own hands but you won't will you. You will be content sitting back and blaming other people.

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

Me too.

His latest whinging that some teams are now not giving their all because its the end of the season and they are safe is just another example of when he'd be better off keeping his mouth shut. I am assuming its a dig at West Ham for rolling over against Liverpool, even though Stoke did the same for us just 24 hours previously. Plus it completely misses the point that we fully deserve to be where we are in the league. We were nothing short of pathetic in the months when we were still in touch with the league leaders.

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I caught a glimpse of that story this morning and was just reading Pep's response.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...senal-10428609

You can see why people don't like him. Voyeur. :lol: Why is he watching other teams and not his own?