Ironically, that's pretty much the opposite of what I'm doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
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Ironically, that's pretty much the opposite of what I'm doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
How about talking about how massive a cunt Wenger is? Seems to be a popular topic with many fans these days. Finally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We're just calling Letters out for being wrong as usual. There's no harm in that :shrug:
Lettuce :console:
We've been hanging in mid-air over a sheer drop for several seasons now, like Wile E. Coyote. The fall will come. That contract for Wenger in the summer will have lasting and harmful effects. Two more years of his bullshit when we were already flogged to death by his breathtaking complacency and incompetence. We could have sacked the cunt and sent a strong signal to the squad and then brought somebody else to build on that squad. We did the opposite and the price for that folly has yet to be paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Co-Signed!
I prefer my rotten oak tree referenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Meep Meep!
Based of what you said and what I originally responded to above, wouldn't that mean we're on a decline if we're now a Top 6 team and may finish outside of the top 4 again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I'm not talking about since 2005, I'm responding to what you said yesterday and based off where we are today and if we finish outside of the top 4. It's very simple.
So, in brief.
Letters is right. There's been no decline since 2006. Letters :bow:
But there's been no progress either despite the money now being available to compete and we are now in danger of decline.
So Wenger is a massive ****.
Shall I just shut the board now till he leaves? Have I won the Internet?
Oh good, a grown up. Hello.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
If we finish outside the top 4 again then yes, it would establish more of a pattern of not being a "top 4" side any more which would show decline. But right now that is an "if".
Overall since 2006 we've not declined or progressed with any consistency but there is a danger of us slipping out of the top 4 on a regular basis not just a one off, I think if we lose Ozil and Sanchez we could be properly screwed.
I still think I'm right when I saw awful manager, awful team, I'd also like to add awful club.
Our results this season just shows how average we are, dropping points left right and centre, the odd decent result proves little, any team can do that.
As Lacazette said, CL qualification is our aim, not the title, we've been going backwards for years, the football is poor, the results are poor, the level of success is low, the quality of players in the team is much lower than before everything is substandard compared to what it use to be.
Considering the quality of the PL has been going down in recent years (as highlighted by their struggles in the CL) our points total proves little, what you see with your own eyes is a better gauge and what we've seen is abject performances week in week out.
Exactly. Disingenuous and shifting goal posts. Doesn't take onto account other teams having bad season either because in 2016 we could have finished outside of the Top 4 with that tally of 71 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vieira
A senseless argument. We're in a competition and not just competing against ourselves. Point tally at the end of the season isn't an accurate barometer of our decline. It may look steady with us always finishing on a certain amount but with us standing still, we're dropping further down the pecking order.
You introduced this 'since 2006' trope, not me. Why that year? Why not track it over the whole of Wenger's tenure? Also, why are you just looking at end of point tally? What about player quality and areas of our game? Have we improved defensively or gotten worse? What about our midfield and attack? Players we're producing? It's a long list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Under Wenger at least under the first half of his tenure we experienced highs and the kind of football that we as fans can be eternally grateful for. But those days have been over for a long time and they aren’t coming back under him he has no more corners to turn, nothing more to offer than disappointment.
The guy is 68 and he isn’t and never was Alex Ferguson the likelihood is that we will continue to regress the longer he stays with us. He has tarnished his reputation and he is damaging the club, I don’t believe that damage is anywhere near irreparable but there will come a point sooner rather than later that it will be if he doesn’t fuck off.
He is a selfish old cunt for not going in the summer, anyone who argues that he didn’t put himself before the club needs to perhaps examine why they support Arsenal in the first place.
I don’t hate him, people I hate I wish harm to...I don’t wish him harm I just want him to go.
I would hope at least that for all the microanalysis going on, we do all within reason agree with this.
I hate him.
I hate him too. Well, I hate him when I think about him. I don't want to kill him, but I problably will want to next season - and definitely if he stays beyond that. In fact won't somebody have to kill him just to get rid of him?
Btw - this is a JOKE - for you nasty little brownshirts trawling the Internet, I don't want to kill anyone. Except you.
Yes, but who is there to replace him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Agreed, nobody.
/thread
We all have varying definitions of HateQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
When I say I hate someone. I mean I hope they get a malignant tumour that kills them slowly
I didn’t watch the Ty video. Did anyone actually suggest any names to him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Of course not. It's Ty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Quite embarrassingly the ginger tart Durham on talk sport reminded the listeners the other day that Wenger said 3 years ago that we would win the title by 3 years time. Need anything more be said......
Because that marked the end of 2 years of decline from the brilliance of The Invincibles in 2004 to 2006 where we just barely scraped top 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
THAT was the decline. Since then we've been bumbling around in the top 4 but mostly towards the bottom of the top 4.
I don't know why you think I'm focusing on points tally. I gave points tally, final league position and points off the top for each season.
All of those give some indication of how we've done and none of those metrics show a consistent decline since 2006.
Because no-one would sensibly argue that we are as good as we were at the start of Wenger's time with us. What people have argued for much of the last 10 years is that we are "in decline". That just isn't bourne out by the facts. It was you who asked me "draw a graph based on our league position and not points tally and tell me there has been no decline.". So I did. You could be simplistic about it and draw a line from 1998 when we finished 1st and last season when we finished 5th and say "See? There has been consistent decline". But that doesn't reflect the reality of what has happened. It would be equally dishonest to draw a line between 1998 and 2016 and say "See? We've only slipped from 1st to 2nd"Quote:
Why not track it over the whole of Wenger's tenure?
The reality is this:
From 1998 to 2004 we finished either 1st or 2nd every year. If anything our quality improved over those years.
Then there was 2 years of serious decline.
Since then we've finished either 3rd or 4th every year. The points tally, the league position, the points off the top. There has been no consistent gradual decline in any of those things since then.
If you disagree with that then I'd be interested to hear on what basis.
The quality of football has declined certainly and we are in danger of slipping down another level but it's too early to tell whether last year's 5th place was a blip or the sign of things to come.
Decline. Stagnation. Argue about that all you want. All I know is that what I am watching is shit and progressively getting worse whenever I have the stomach to watch it.
There is no way we are even going to stand still with Wenger in charge. It just gets worse and worse with zero confidence it will ever improve under Wenger.
Very silly argument really.
It's like jumping out of a plane without a parachute and celebrating when you sustain terminal velocity.
The football is in decline. Can anybody seriously argue otherwise?
The reputation of the club is in decline, just ask Alexis, Ozil and Ox (or Theo's your man if you want the other side)
The reputation of the manager, he's a joke but it isn't funny at all.
Our reputation in Europe, they must cheer when they draw us.
But in this money first, football last pub league that is the PL, we can bob around the 4th place spot and pull in a few extra quid for the leeches.
In fact the decline is so sharp some of the fans want to look on the bright side by claiming mere stagnation. Whatever.
Looks a lot like decline to me. Especially when I watch videos of our title winning teams.
A West Ham fan thanking us for having such a shit manager.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeZn1ZDv1Ks
No argument there, the quality of football has definitely declined. 10 years ago we might have been hanging on to the coattails of the top 4 but I basically enjoyed the games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
Now, not so much. Watching Arsenal games these days is generally a very frustrating and joyless experience.
Yes, of course. No-one is arguing there has been no decline since the heights of 2004, it was more a sharp decline over 2 years and since then we've bumbled around neither progressing or declining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
But yes, the quality of football has gone off a cliff. It's not enjoyable watching us any more, which is one of the reasons I don't.
If we carry on like this there's a small chance we won't win the league this season.
Right :angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
None of this anti-Wenger nonsense. AKB.
That's a banning :threaten:
The Cesc-led years were equally as frustrating in other ways but thinking back with today’s team as a comparison, the football was actually quite good. We’d create chances for fun in every game, wouldn’t always finish them off but it was edge of your seat stuff. Of course they suffered from the same mentality issues as well but certainly that’s the best football we’ve played since the glory days. We even managed to progress in the CL on a couple of occasions as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Now though as you say, it’s mostly joyless with the odd nugget of surprise thrown in. I don’t think the fans have ever felt this disconnected from the team.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Wenger the Wise?
Never underestimate the power of the farce...Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
Well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
As you say, it's declining and getting worse and worse :(
Hate being right :(
No we know who to blame if we get pipped at the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
Oil money? Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
On a nice brisk Friday morning with me having got my work done yesterday so not having to rush around like a hungover person who didn't get their work done, I don't really care much about him or the club. I'll judge him at the end of the day.
I think the problem is that the rot is so slow that it will convince people it’s not happening
Since 2009, not been able to go through a league season losing less than 7 games
Since 2015, despite 15 attempts we haven’t been able to register an away victory at a top six side
Between 2011 and 2017, no matter who we were drawn with we couldn’t get into the 1/4 finals of the champions league
Haven’t won more than 14 out of 19 home games since 2010
Cannot challenge for the league without spectacular collapse February/March time since we last won it
This is where it gets ridiculous. You set the parameters of the argument and choose to focus on a date range I never mentioned or even originally referred to. You say there has been a massive decline compared to our earlier years in the above post but omit that from discussion in previous posts and somehow still conclude there has been no decline because you’re sticking to this well-defined date range that excludes where we have seriously dropped off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Let me show you what I’m referring to when looking at another decline since we can both can agree that we’ve dropped off from the title challenging days. This is about what we’ve seen in recent seasons and I’ll give some context.
2016 – 2nd - 71 points
2017 – 5th – 75 points
2018 - ??
It’s worth noting that you’re not speaking to someone that has predicted we’d drop out of the top 4 each year. In fact, if you remember correctly, in 2013 when we signed the new sponsorship deals and Fergie retired. I argued with you and few others that this was our window of opportunity to win the title. Remember that debate? All of our rivals around us were unstable and going through transitions themselves whilst we looked the most stable and if we had bought correctly etc., we could have won the title. We could have capitalised off the chaos but we lost our footing . Two seasons later, Leicester showed us how to capitalise off chaos and won the tile whilst our rivals were going through another phase of turmoil.
We’ve gone from 2nd to finishing 5th last season. That’s a decline. Don’t dress it up as a blip. I’d go as far to say our 2nd place finish was a blip because we had a season where our rivals were at their absolute worse and it’s unlikely we’ll ever see a season like that again. With teams around us getting better, what if the usual 70 odd points isn’t enough to get us Top 4? By standing still we get left behind. It’s as simple as that and that’s without me even getting into the whole tactical side of the things and the repeated errors we see from the club and manager.
Le boiled frogQuote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
:lol: PnG you've really got to stop putting Lettuce in his place like that. Will he be able to come back from this? Doubt it. He'll probably give it a go though in true AKB spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Lettuce :rose:
You're looking at the wrong metrics. We are consistently outperforming our major rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Of course he didn't specify who our major rivals are. I think we are supposed to assume that bit.