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Started watching this. Actually pretty good.
Nice to get a peep behind the curtain. Josh Kronke impresses me more than I expected and there does seem to be a long term strategy. Obviously it’s easy to be upbeat after our start this year, but am feeling more optimistic about things.
USA! USA! USA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:lol:
I actually like this team having watched this. I have more respect for Xhaka than I do for Auba, Auba to me looked as if it was all one big joke.
Auba is a cunt. He left us for about a year before he left.
He shouldn't have been given that last contract. People here were tearing their hair out back then, "If he leaves, we are dead". So he stayed and he left all at the same time.
Bad business, but then thats our trademark nowadays. Get rid of Ozil, replace him immediately with Ozil.
I saw his car in the first episode and...yeah, pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
Our contract management has been bloody awful. But it has achieved something, getting rid of players who aren't buying in to "the plan".Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
We've got a good young squad now, need to push on this year. Am cautiously optimistic, although it's easy to think that having won the first 3 games.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/footb...louis-vuitton/Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I’m not sure what this is meant to prove, that because he lacks any taste that it’s ok for Arteta to treat him like shitQuote:
Originally Posted by GP
Treating him like shit was too good for that cunt.
You can say what you like about the manager, but I’m at a loss to think how anyone could’ve dealt with the clusterfuck he inherited.
Maybe that says something about your own lacking interpersonal skillsQuote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
I love how pissed off Ramsdale was after we conceded against Villa to cost him his clean sheet :d
That makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, you forget just how many fires he had to put out when he first inherited the side - there’s probably a lot of individual cases there that might have been turned around with a bit of tlc, but when you have a squad full of those cases to deal with, who all need fixing at once, whilst you’re trying to turn the tanker, you just don’t have time for it. In insurance terms it was basically a write-off: more time consuming and costly to fix than simply buying a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
It’s a shame because I think if someone like Guendouzi had walked into this current Arsenal side as a 19yo then we could have saved him, but as it was he walked into a rudderless shit-show, got instantly recruited by the Özil gang, and that became his blueprint for how a top professional behaves (this is just a suspicion, but I wouldn’t mind betting that part of the reason we kept pushing Saliba out on loans was because we saw the same warning signs with him and wanted to get him as far away from that group and this club as we could until the culture had been completely reset).
Like yourself I can’t really think how anyone could have dealt with things differently - maybe there was a better way somewhere, but personally I’m just glad it has been dealt with. When you look at what’s going on at other clubs, that’s not a given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
And therein lies the problem
Arteta seems to like players with no character who won’t challenge him. Ramsdale is quite outspoken so it will be interesting to see how long he lasts, but a lot of the players are timid and quiet.
Being a coach/manager requires you to be able to deal with a lot of different personalities and egos. If you can’t do that then you won’t make it in the job
Consider the type of players that has left the Club. They all had the same faults - faults many fans have been crying out about for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
The Club is nowhere near where it needs to be yet, but the broken culture is clearly undergoing major surgery. Arteta is the guy performing that surgery, whether he is the guy to to complete the rehabilitation is up for debate.
We needed rid of the players and ridiculous contracts we’ve offloaded. Aside from not delivering, they made the team completely unlikeable.
I can get behind players giving their all and not succeeding, but not for a minute can I stomach the type of mentality displayed by the likes of Ozil and Auba.
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I never mentioned OzilQuote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
But it’s interesting neither Wenger or Emery experienced issues with Auba’s attitude
Then there’s Torreira, Pepe and Guendouzi
If you think Auba is the last player Arteta will fall out with and freeze out I think you’re delusional
Players change. Both Ozil and Auba dropped off a cliff once they signed those mega contracts. No more incentive to put in a shift. I am all for performance based contracts. 50% of salaries should be based on team/individual performance, even if a 3rd party needs to be involved to adjudicate the merits of each individual player. If the team is crap, so should your pay beQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
You seem like a huge fan reading things people didn’t say, and then going on a big run.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
It must be noisy inside that pretty little head of yours.
Petro teams will never buy into this discipline. But I like your idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
There was more to it than that. They don't go into detail but there were obviously a series of things where Auba wasn't toeing the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
For whatever reason the relationship between manager and player broke down. Arteta couldn't back down and retain authority.
Only option was to get rid.
I do think Arteta's team talks are weird, but the players seem to respond to them so whatevz.
Finding it difficult to understand why people have such a problem with Arteta getting rid of players that were problematic to the team ethic, either because of disciplinary issues or because they were not team players. People are entitled to speculate as to whether this player or that is/was a better football player than those we are left with, or to take issue with whether they may have fared differently under a different manager. But personally I think we have to start with the culture that Arteta wishes to foster. He is our manager, whether people like it or not, and is in charge. If players can't, or don't want to play ball under his regime, then the manager is right to get rid for the sake of the team. We have complained about the shit culture around Arsenal for years. It therfore seems hugely unfair to complain when a manager tries to address this.
Agreed. The culture at the club stunk so bad that it got to a point where fans stopped caring because there was nothing that remotely resembled Arsenal left in the squad anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
It’s fine if you think Arteta is a weirdo or a cunt but he has rightly pushed the reset button on this club. What we have now is better recruitment, motivated players and most importantly a happy fanbase and match going crowd. If that meant making some tough decisions along the way then so be it, whatever you think of his ability as a coach he absolutely has to lay down the law and ensure things are done his way and standards continue to be met.
Agreed. Anyone who has been to games recently cannot dispute that there has been a sea change in the atmosphere around the club - and this includes the players. People moan when we don't put in a 10/10 performance in every game, but frankly no team ever does - even Citeh and Liverpool, and we cannot have done more this season than win every game, and have our players clearly playing with hugely more drive and purpose. You don't come back from conceding goals as we have done without a great team spirit. This is down to Arteta's management, and you can't have the improved performances and togetherness without accepting the manager's methods. Personally, I don't want to see players out there that don't buy into the project and it surprises me to see people favouring those who haven;t done and left the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
My issue is we were not in a position to decide that our best striker was beyond redemption. And when you can look at the way Guendouzi was dealt with and look at our current central midfield and not consider that an issue, the problem is not with the people pointing out that something is hideously wrong with Arteta
What exactly had Auba done to be treated the way he was, being late to training and being back a day late from seeing his mum. The way he was isolated, you’d have thought he was R Kelly.
There’s no consistency with it either, Laca grabs Cedric round the throat because he commented unfavourably on Laca sliding in like a Cunt on young Arsenal players. I didn’t see any public discipline for Laca here.
When you’re trying to get fourth spot do you not think it would have been wise to fine Auba maybe leave him out of the side for a game and then that would be that?. If the player is going at the end of the season anyway it’s utterly churlish to not try and get as many goals out of him as possible rather than trying to look like you’re in control by humiliating him.
I have no sympathy for Auba, if taken in isolation. These players who think they have somehow surpassed the requirement to be eternally grateful for the entirely unreasonable privilege they enjoy deserve our upmost contempt. If they guy can't even turn up on time, to be showered in money and pampered like a prince, then fuck him. No?
However.
As this warranted standard is not applied evenly and vigorously across the board I can see where the confusion arises. Why him and not any of the other pieces of shit who masquerade as sportsmen? Good question.
Who are the professionals these days? The ones who live for the sport and not the money? They must still exist even if their number if greatly diminished. Can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but there must be some? Ain't Auba though.
Who are "we"? Arteta made the call, and it is his call to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
The players seem to disagree with that assessment.Quote:
the problem is not with the people pointing out that something is hideously wrong with Arteta
That is not known. But from the things Arteta hinted at in A or N it clearly wasn't just one or two things. Isolating him was a bit "putting him on the naughty step" but Arteta clearly felt Auba's presence in training would have a negative effect. Again, that is his call to make. If there is a criticism of Arteta it's that he weakened the squad last January and didn't sign anyone. He took a gamble that the squad would carry us through the rest of the season, it didn't quite work in terms of top 4. But he was also clearly thinking longer term, the club are clearly backing him and have invested well this summer. We are seeing the results. Long way to go, obviously. And this season will have its ups and downs as they all do. But we do look to have stepped up a level this year.Quote:
What exactly had Auba done to be treated the way he was, being late to training and being back a day late from seeing his mum.
There was obviously more going on than him just being late for a training session or not. Arteta made the call that it was better overall for squad discipline and cohesion to get rid. It's notable that Laca, who apparently was BFFs with Auba, pretty much stopped scoring too. So he was shipped as well. Fans only think short term, the club clearly has a longer term strategy. Whether it will work, well let's see how this season goes. But there are positive signs so far.Quote:
When you’re trying to get fourth spot do you not think it would have been wise to fine Auba maybe leave him out of the side for a game and then that would be that?. If the player is going at the end of the season anyway it’s utterly churlish to not try and get as many goals out of him as possible rather than trying to look like you’re in control by humiliating him.
The difference is your reaching for explanations I'm using Occam’s razor as a guideQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You talk about what the players say about Arteta, they go on about what a brilliant tactical mind he has. They don’t talk about how much they like him. To a degree I would accept it’s not necessary to like a coach, but when you have zero personal relationships with any of these players (something clearly alluded to by Edu at one point) the idea that anyone thinks players being singled out and isolated because they have earned the ire of this weird, introverted megalomaniac is suddenly over because we have sculpted a new squad is sadly mistaken.
As I keep saying it’s a clear pattern of behaviour, even NQ has a point that there’s zero consistency with it either.
Arteta’s frail ego cannot stand to be challenged, so in that respect we are stuck with someone with the personality type and charm of Graham Souness
Hmmm, my main criticism of Arteta would be his team keeps collapsing like a cheap whore caught in a GI drop zone. Maybe focus on that first and consider the finer details after the catastrophic stuff has been addressed.
That can be addressed very easily. They arent very goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
But the reason they aren’t even meeting their mediocre potential is because Arteta is likely a) on the neuro diverse spectrum (look at his inability to hold eye contact with people) and b) has such a frail ego that he needs to make examples of others in order to deflect from his own deficiencies as a coach and a human being.
Well I don't know anything about all that. Didn't watch this program and have no interest in it. All I know is I consistently saw that bloke White get the ball to his feet, with time, and do shit I'd be embarrassed to repeat on a Sunday league dirt patch. There's something very seriously wrong with any manager who can allow that standard to exist on a professional football pitch. Maybe it's for the reasons you state, but after so many years of watching football swirl down the drain I think it has more to do with a general disrespect for the sport by all concerned. And if we are one bunch of disrespectful cunts who get the better of some other bunch down the road, for the bargain price of several million quid in a week's wages, then I'd say it was time for all of them to go, not just Arteta. He's just a symptom, not a cause.
Which is all it is, a guiding principle not some inalienable law of the universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
And no you’re not, you have some weird hate boner for Arteta for some reason. All your pontifications about him are twisted through that lens. And for balance, I like Arteta so I guess I am more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether you like him or not, it’s clear there has been progress under him. Not just in terms of results, but in terms of the way we play, team cohesion and the relationship between fans and the team. That last point is vital, when that relationship between team and fanbase is broken, as it was, then it’s a serious problem. I don’t go to games now but by all accounts there has been a clear change in atmosphere. The fans are buying in to what the club are trying to build, it seems the players are too. Let’s see where that takes is this season. We don’t know where that will take us. I’ll judge that, and Arteta, at (all together now) the end of the season.
As I've said before, your assumptions about the manager don't stand up to the facts. Arteta was clearly an Auba fan - he re-signed him after all. It just doesn't make sense that Arteta would cut of his nose to spite his face and leave us without a first choice striker because he had some kind of vendetta. Like him or not (and you clearly don't), the logical conclusion must be that Auba, and Guendouzi for that matter, were behaving in a way that ran counter to what Arteta is trying to achieve, and only the most one eyed of Arteta detractors can argue that he has not made strides in improving the culture at the club on and off the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Finished this.
Despite the disappointment at the end of the season, I ended up feeling quite upbeat having watched the season.
No-one on here expected Top 4 last year, remember last season was on the back of 2 seasons of finishing 8th. So why is anyone losing their shit because we didn't quite make it?
I guess it was because we had it in our hands and let it slip, which is fair. But they're a young squad, it's a learning experience. It was a clear progression from the previous season, it feels like there's a plan for the club and a strategy. So let's see where we end up next May. Already there are encouraging signs. Sunday was a kick in the knackers but it's always a tough place to go, and we seem to struggle up there more than most for some reason. Long way to go yet, but pretty much everyone would have taken 5 wins and a loss from the first 6 games.
The only reason (I believe) is that shit was lost by everyone is because we let the scum into the CL when it was in our own hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I know that people laugh about the prospect, but could you imagine if they actually won the CL this season? We would never forgive the team for the fail.
PS
I never realised how hard Edu worked behind the scenes. I actually admire him after watching the whole series.
Intradesting observation on Edu. I finished the series with a lower opinion of him. Him, and the 2 execs just struck me as amateurish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
I thought Arteta and Kroenke came off well though. Maybe as I had such a low opinion of them initially but they went up in my estimation, for sure. I've certainly a little more time for Arteta. Tempered by how the show was edited, obviously, but he came across well.
Yes, it didn't help that it was that lot who we lost out to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Agreed. In Guendouzi's case he has been acting up at Marseille too and falling out with his coaches. Guendouzi has developed into a very good player but he still has a problematic attitude if the reports are to be believed. Auba I am not remotely bothered about, he gave up and was causing issues in the dressing room, we did the right thing in getting rid. What we / Arteta should have done is have a replacement lined up or at least brought in some kind of temporary solution. It is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK