1-0 HT.
Man City are probably quite happy with that given the start.
1-0 HT.
Man City are probably quite happy with that given the start.
Only just seen city’s lineup now. Weird that they’ve gone with having zero width.
A draw is still possible, my bet is he brings on a couple of players, e.g. Gvardiol and KDB, at HT
Not sure De Bruyne is up to it either.
I mean with the last 2 seasons, it was a bit clear that Citeh needed something new this summer themselves, but Pep got complacent (which makes sense unlike us).
Like he says, he'll start the rebuilding this January. I just hope its way too late for him by then.
How has Salah missed?!
Can't believe Salah missed that.
When Haalaand meets top CBs, he's easily tamed.
Their over reliance on him scoring has been their most obvious weakness (usually exposed in big games) and thats one of the main reasons they are struggling now.
Once the goals from KDB and Foden started drying up, Pep should have considered bringing in more direct goal threats.
Liverpool should be like 4 clear by now...
Pelanty for Liverpool.
Game over :rose:
2-0 Salah pelanty.
This is the rightful end to this game, only one team has deserved this.
De Bruyne on now. :lol:
4 league defeats in a row. Reign of terror well and truly at an end.
Did you see that Mac.....mannnnn KDB's best days are past him.
2-0 FT. Citeh. :lol:
Liverpool look pretty hungry under Slot.
Still not sure they'll win the league, but at least for neutral football fans, they can sleep well knowing it definitely won't be 5 in a row.
They need to drop points in at least 2 games this month otherwise I don’t see how we or anyone will be catching them.
Relying on Newcastle, Everton and Tottenham this month. :lol:
And us needing to win every game. :lol:
It's a good thing everyone's been saying Liverpool are going to totally flunk the second half of the season or I'd be worried right now ;)
Seriously if Citeh keep stumbling amd we can keep our run going, it could be quite an exciting season, be we need to start closing the gap on Liverpool pretty soon...
Yet nothing has changed really for me. They are winning games I’d expect them to win
I’ll take them seriously if they come through Xmas unscathed. Hoping a completely useless Southampton and a completely demoralised City could help us out is one thing. Now I think the pressure is on them to put a sustained run together. City were completely hopeless and for all people going on about how hungry Liverpool were, they seemed to get more food down themselves rather than in their mouth.
As I said last week, the surprise has been about the extent of city’s collapse (I think today was more than just Rodri and lack of confidence, Guardiola completely botched it tactically) and to a lesser extent our own. Some very unforgivable results, number 1 in my view was the failure to beat Liverpool back in October (to my mind far more painful and infuriating than the losses to Bournemouth and Newcastle which we deserved nothing from)
I’d expect nothing less.
But your excuses about them getting lucky or playing teams they should win or the opposition being no good are looking increasingly desperate and ridiculous with every game.
Spurs should beat Ipswich. And Fulham, while we are here. Teams don’t win every game they should win - except Liverpool have so far. Nottingham at home being the one and somewhat bizarre outlier.
They’re not just contenders, they have to be favourites right now.
I didn’t expect that at the start of the season, but here we are.
I don’t know what to tell you, as I’ve said we could be looking at another Leicester City style season where the shoe doesn’t drop, or more accurately the usual sides fail to get it together. But actually I think it’s far more ridiculous to suggest 13 games in that it’s been anything other than easy fixtures and luck (well a mixture of luck and favourable decisions)
As I said here earlier, I think a lot of people are panicking prematurely. As if nine point gap to Liverpool means anything the way it would if it was a nine point gap to City
This is absolutely nothing like Leicester. They were completely out of the blue challengers, literally no-one would have tipped them pre-season. Now I wouldn't have tipped Liverpool - well, I didn't - but I'd have backed them for Top 4, they only finished 7 points off us last year and they were 14 points above Villa in 4th. They're not completely out of left field. Leicester won the league with 81 points in a season when no-one else got much more than 70. They won about 60% of their league games. That would only have been good enough for 4th last season.
That opinion is looking more and more like stubbornness with every game that goes by and they keep winning. But OK, let's look at their fixtures up till the turn of the year - a milestone we both agree is important:Quote:
But actually I think it’s far more ridiculous to suggest 13 games in that it’s been anything other than easy fixtures and luck (well a mixture of luck and favourable decisions)
Newcastle (A) - currently in 11th, just lost to West Ham at home.
Everton (A) - Yes it's a derby but they're currently 15th, having won 2 games all season.
Fulham (H) - Mid-table, in 10th. Should be a routine home win/
Spurs (A) - Well OK, that could be a difficult one. Spurs blow hot and cold a bit, they're certainly capable of getting something but equally capable of getting thumped.
Leicester (H) - Currently hovering just above the relegation zone.
West Ham (A) - You saw what we did to them, how are they going to stop Liverpool?
So by your own metric these are all games they "should" win, with the exception of Spurs and they're so random I don't know what to expect in that one.
So where are we making up those points?
I wouldn't say I was panicking, but dismissing it as luck and easy fixtures is looking increasingly idiotic. I haven't thrown in the towel yet but looking at their fixtures I don't see where they're going to drop many points this year other than surely they have to at some point - but I keep thinking that and they keep winning.Quote:
As I said here earlier, I think a lot of people are panicking prematurely. As if nine point gap to Liverpool means anything the way it would if it was a nine point gap to City
Yup, I think the math here works.
If by January, they've still got a lead of 9 points, its probably best to look towards next season.
Funnily I had earlier tipped Villa to be the dark horse this season.I had visions that Lord Emery would spring a surprise, cause enough chaos and maybe even rescue us from the dark reign of Pep singlehandedly :lol: ... but now it looks like it will definitely be one of the usual names.
Also I am beginning to think the dark Sorcerer played a fast one on all of us and trained another bald clone to keep his throne warm...if its not clear, I am talking about Maresca and the Chavs here.
Currently this is the outcome that would unsettle me more than any other.
It’s very much like Leicester, the potential for an unlikely title charge that came about because the expected contenders have gone off the boil. In fact you even have the parallel of City going completely the way Chelsea did nine years ago the season after winning the title.
I get that Liverpool were the last team that wasn’t Man City to win the title, but this just isn’t the same Liverpool team as that one not by any stretch of the imagination.
With the exception of Salah there really isn’t any player in that Liverpool team id take over their opposite number in our squad.
And Newcastle, Tottenham, West Ham and Everton are tougher away games than they’ve faced so far. Not the relegation fodder and teams desperately low on confidence that they’ve largely faced up until now. If they come through unscathed from a Merseyside derby, a physical midweek game at St James Park, a tussle with the current top scorers in the league and a West Ham side that for all its frailties against us was able to spring a smash and grab (they basically got two smash and grab goals against us)
City have fallen off a cliff. We are only 5 points down on this stage last season having had harder games. We should be closer to Liverpool but we haven't been as off the boil as it has seemed at times.
And we might not have tipped Liverpool at the start but they were certainly in the conversation having finished 3rd last year, well clear of the rest. To compare a Liverpool title this year to what Leicester did is ludicrous. To say that Leicester's title charge was "unlikely" is to massively understate how mind-boggling what they did was. It was, to all intents and purposes, impossible in the modern game.
You'll have to tell the league table that. The more games they play the sillier your stance of "they're just getting lucky and playing easy games" becomes.Quote:
I get that Liverpool were the last team that wasn’t Man City to win the title, but this just isn’t the same Liverpool team as that one not by any stretch of the imagination.
With the exception of Salah there really isn’t any player in that Liverpool team id take over their opposite number in our squad.
They beat Utd away and while they've been in hilariously patchy form, we certainly saw it as a banana skin in our run-in last season.Quote:
And Newcastle, Tottenham, West Ham and Everton are tougher away games than they’ve faced so far. Not the relegation fodder and teams desperately low on confidence that they’ve largely faced up until now.
They've won away at Brighton, who are 4th, and drawn away at our place.
This is just pointless stubbornness at this point.
I hope if they get through the games you mention you won't just find more excuses.
They won away at Brighton in the league cup, they played them in the league at Anfield. Tottenham won away at United
We went four games without a win that’s a big thing, two years ago we had the same points as Liverpool do now after arguably playing far tougher fixtures. We also scored more goals and conceded fewer. If I wasn’t necessarily convinced we were contenders after 13 games, why should I be anymore convinced that an inferior Liverpool side are
I don’t expect them to lose to both Newcastle and Everton but it certainly isn’t inconceivable that they do and then either for us or for Chelsea they look very catchable indeed.
I set very specific criteria for whether they should be taken seriously, just like I did last season for whether Arteta should keep his job, football is decided on fine margins.
And as I say if they navigate this month, I will be more inclined to believe that a Leicester City season is in the offing.
And by that I mean in no normal circumstance would this particular Liverpool side be expected to finish above both City and Arsenal
Ah, fair enough.
The issue for me is we don't just need Liverpool to drop points - which I agree they surely have to soon - they have to drop MORE points than us. Quite a lot more. And I don't see their run in December as that difficult. Everton beat them last year but that was when Liverpool were in their real slump and played their way out of the title race. This year Liverpool are flying, Everton...aren't. Spurs I have some hope for but you can never tell what they're going to do. They lost to Palace then thumped Villa, lost to Ipswich then hammered City and then drew to Fulham :lol:. They are capable of getting something vs Liverpool but you can never tell with them.
I just think you've underestimated Liverpool but I of course accept there is a long way to go and 13 games doth not a season make.
You make assertions about Liverpool without having watched them play which is what I find peculiar. Of course the term “flying” is subjective, but it would to me suggest a team that looks unbeatable and I think you need to do more than look at the league table to examine the strength of that opinion. And this is perhaps why you appeared anyway somewhat blinded by City’s collapse.
Now of course Liverpool are not treading water even when winning games the way City were, but I don’t think flying is that adequate a description either. They looked all over the shop against Southampton for example, and they’ve been helped by two home games against teams that are struggling to find form.
I also think Newcastle, Everton, Tottenham and West Ham away represents collectively far harder opposition than Liverpool hitherto have had to face away from home this season. Could they win all four? Indeed. Just like City could have beaten Bournemouth, Brighton, Spurs and Liverpool.
P13 W11 D1 L1
They've scored more than anyone (apart from Spurs, weirdly), conceded fewer goals than anyone - by a mile.
I don't need to watch games to know that with a 3rd of the season gone this can no longer be dismissed as luck or easy fixtures.
But I do also talk to other football fans who watch games more than I do, I haven't heard anyone else claim Liverpool are just getting lucky.
I don’t think you can know any such thing, plus they’ve scored the same amount of goals as us after 13 games. A team that managed three goals in four games prior to the last two games. Four of those goals have been penalties, two of which to say the least fortuitously awarded, and there have been three games where they’ve needed the award of a penalty in order to win.
So yes the situation is clear, either watch Liverpool’s games and dispute my argument on that basis or don’t.
Comparing Liverpool, a team with some of the same players that won the league a few seasons ago and have consistently been top four, with Leicester is absurd.
Yes Citeh have stumbled and created a big gap but Liverpool would be right up with them in any case.
And as for us, a mixture of ridiculous refereeing and Artateta's own caution haev left us further behind than we needed to be but I wouldn't rule us out altogether.
Far more of the team that won them the league four/five years ago have moved on than still remain at the club
Van Dijk and Salah are world class players for sure, but aging world class players. Van Dijk is simply not the defender he was four-five years ago (and that’s to be expected).
The rest of that team? A mixture of good and ok players. And if City and Arsenal were firing on full cylinders they would certainly not be nine points clear or in my view leading the way at all.
So yes the last time where there a team that won the league when they were at least two or three teams with a better squad than them was Leicester City in 2016.
We know how the tv and print media fellates Liverpool because of the ex Liverpool players that are employed by it.
They looked at least to me a far better team in terms of performance a year ago, like then they have only lost one game…
I understand why people are nervous, city’s collapse should have made it our year and a nine point gap can appear daunting. But after 13 games treating it as even particularly significant seems foolhardy to me.
As I say, will see if Liverpool do a Leicester City (and I do not care if people don’t like the comparison, for me it is totally apt)