This Weekend's Fixtures & Midwek Fixtures (29/30 Nov/01/03/04/05 Dec)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

They need to drop points in at least 2 games this month otherwise I don’t see how we or anyone will be catching them.

Yup, I think the math here works.

If by January, they've still got a lead of 9 points, its probably best to look towards next season.

Funnily I had earlier tipped Villa to be the dark horse this season.I had visions that Lord Emery would spring a surprise, cause enough chaos and maybe even rescue us from the dark reign of Pep singlehandedly ... but now it looks like it will definitely be one of the usual names.

Also I am beginning to think the dark Sorcerer played a fast one on all of us and trained another bald clone to keep his throne warm...if its not clear, I am talking about Maresca and the Chavs here.

Currently this is the outcome that would unsettle me more than any other.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s very much like Leicester, the potential for an unlikely title charge that came about because the expected contenders have gone off the boil. In fact you even have the parallel of City going completely the way Chelsea did nine years ago the season after winning the title.
I get that Liverpool were the last team that wasn’t Man City to win the title, but this just isn’t the same Liverpool team as that one not by any stretch of the imagination.

With the exception of Salah there really isn’t any player in that Liverpool team id take over their opposite number in our squad.

And Newcastle, Tottenham, West Ham and Everton are tougher away games than they’ve faced so far. Not the relegation fodder and teams desperately low on confidence that they’ve largely faced up until now. If they come through unscathed from a Merseyside derby, a physical midweek game at St James Park, a tussle with the current top scorers in the league and a West Ham side that for all its frailties against us was able to spring a smash and grab (they basically got two smash and grab goals against us)

[Letters]

It’s very much like Leicester, the potential for an unlikely title charge that came about because the expected contenders have gone off the boil.

City have fallen off a cliff. We are only 5 points down on this stage last season having had harder games. We should be closer to Liverpool but we haven't been as off the boil as it has seemed at times.
And we might not have tipped Liverpool at the start but they were certainly in the conversation having finished 3rd last year, well clear of the rest. To compare a Liverpool title this year to what Leicester did is ludicrous. To say that Leicester's title charge was "unlikely" is to massively understate how mind-boggling what they did was. It was, to all intents and purposes, impossible in the modern game.

I get that Liverpool were the last team that wasn’t Man City to win the title, but this just isn’t the same Liverpool team as that one not by any stretch of the imagination.
With the exception of Salah there really isn’t any player in that Liverpool team id take over their opposite number in our squad.

You'll have to tell the league table that. The more games they play the sillier your stance of "they're just getting lucky and playing easy games" becomes.

And Newcastle, Tottenham, West Ham and Everton are tougher away games than they’ve faced so far. Not the relegation fodder and teams desperately low on confidence that they’ve largely faced up until now.

They beat Utd away and while they've been in hilariously patchy form, we certainly saw it as a banana skin in our run-in last season.
They've won away at Brighton, who are 4th, and drawn away at our place.
This is just pointless stubbornness at this point.
I hope if they get through the games you mention you won't just find more excuses.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They won away at Brighton in the league cup, they played them in the league at Anfield. Tottenham won away at United

We went four games without a win that’s a big thing, two years ago we had the same points as Liverpool do now after arguably playing far tougher fixtures. We also scored more goals and conceded fewer. If I wasn’t necessarily convinced we were contenders after 13 games, why should I be anymore convinced that an inferior Liverpool side are

I don’t expect them to lose to both Newcastle and Everton but it certainly isn’t inconceivable that they do and then either for us or for Chelsea they look very catchable indeed.

I set very specific criteria for whether they should be taken seriously, just like I did last season for whether Arteta should keep his job, football is decided on fine margins.

And as I say if they navigate this month, I will be more inclined to believe that a Leicester City season is in the offing.

And by that I mean in no normal circumstance would this particular Liverpool side be expected to finish above both City and Arsenal

[Letters]

They won away at Brighton in the league cup

Ah, fair enough.
The issue for me is we don't just need Liverpool to drop points - which I agree they surely have to soon - they have to drop MORE points than us. Quite a lot more. And I don't see their run in December as that difficult. Everton beat them last year but that was when Liverpool were in their real slump and played their way out of the title race. This year Liverpool are flying, Everton...aren't. Spurs I have some hope for but you can never tell what they're going to do. They lost to Palace then thumped Villa, lost to Ipswich then hammered City and then drew to Fulham . They are capable of getting something vs Liverpool but you can never tell with them.

I just think you've underestimated Liverpool but I of course accept there is a long way to go and 13 games doth not a season make.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ah, fair enough.
The issue for me is we don't just need Liverpool to drop points - which I agree they surely have to soon - they have to drop MORE points than us. Quite a lot more. And I don't see their run in December as that difficult. Everton beat them last year but that was when Liverpool were in their real slump and played their way out of the title race. This year Liverpool are flying, Everton...aren't. Spurs I have some hope for but you can never tell what they're going to do. They lost to Palace then thumped Villa, lost to Ipswich then hammered City and then drew to Fulham . They are capable of getting something vs Liverpool but you can never tell with them.

I just think you've underestimated Liverpool but I of course accept there is a long way to go and 13 games doth not a season make.

You make assertions about Liverpool without having watched them play which is what I find peculiar. Of course the term “flying” is subjective, but it would to me suggest a team that looks unbeatable and I think you need to do more than look at the league table to examine the strength of that opinion. And this is perhaps why you appeared anyway somewhat blinded by City’s collapse.
Now of course Liverpool are not treading water even when winning games the way City were, but I don’t think flying is that adequate a description either. They looked all over the shop against Southampton for example, and they’ve been helped by two home games against teams that are struggling to find form.

I also think Newcastle, Everton, Tottenham and West Ham away represents collectively far harder opposition than Liverpool hitherto have had to face away from home this season. Could they win all four? Indeed. Just like City could have beaten Bournemouth, Brighton, Spurs and Liverpool.

[Letters]

You make assertions about Liverpool without having watched them play which is what I find peculiar.

P13 W11 D1 L1
They've scored more than anyone (apart from Spurs, weirdly), conceded fewer goals than anyone - by a mile.
I don't need to watch games to know that with a 3rd of the season gone this can no longer be dismissed as luck or easy fixtures.
But I do also talk to other football fans who watch games more than I do, I haven't heard anyone else claim Liverpool are just getting lucky.

[HCZ_Reborn]

P13 W11 D1 L1
They've scored more than anyone (apart from Spurs, weirdly), conceded fewer goals than anyone - by a mile.
I don't need to watch games to know that with a 3rd of the season gone this can no longer be dismissed as luck or easy fixtures.
But I do also talk to other football fans who watch games more than I do, I haven't heard anyone else claim Liverpool are just getting lucky.

I don’t think you can know any such thing, plus they’ve scored the same amount of goals as us after 13 games. A team that managed three goals in four games prior to the last two games. Four of those goals have been penalties, two of which to say the least fortuitously awarded, and there have been three games where they’ve needed the award of a penalty in order to win.

So yes the situation is clear, either watch Liverpool’s games and dispute my argument on that basis or don’t.

[Mac76]

Comparing Liverpool, a team with some of the same players that won the league a few seasons ago and have consistently been top four, with Leicester is absurd.

Yes Citeh have stumbled and created a big gap but Liverpool would be right up with them in any case.

And as for us, a mixture of ridiculous refereeing and Artateta's own caution haev left us further behind than we needed to be but I wouldn't rule us out altogether.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Comparing Liverpool, a team with some of the same players that won the league a few seasons ago and have consistently been top four, with Leicester is absurd.

Yes Citeh have stumbled and created a big gap but Liverpool would be right up with them in any case.

And as for us, a mixture of ridiculous refereeing and Artateta's own caution haev left us further behind than we needed to be but I wouldn't rule us out altogether.

Far more of the team that won them the league four/five years ago have moved on than still remain at the club


Van Dijk and Salah are world class players for sure, but aging world class players. Van Dijk is simply not the defender he was four-five years ago (and that’s to be expected).


The rest of that team? A mixture of good and ok players. And if City and Arsenal were firing on full cylinders they would certainly not be nine points clear or in my view leading the way at all.

So yes the last time where there a team that won the league when they were at least two or three teams with a better squad than them was Leicester City in 2016.


We know how the tv and print media fellates Liverpool because of the ex Liverpool players that are employed by it.

They looked at least to me a far better team in terms of performance a year ago, like then they have only lost one game…

I understand why people are nervous, city’s collapse should have made it our year and a nine point gap can appear daunting. But after 13 games treating it as even particularly significant seems foolhardy to me.


As I say, will see if Liverpool do a Leicester City (and I do not care if people don’t like the comparison, for me it is totally apt)