Arsenal vs Crystal Palace 23.04.2025 - KO 20:00 GMT

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

You do that by how you treat the game and apply yourself. I remember you not finding it acceptable in any way on us drawing to Everton.

I'm the same here with Palace being the much better side when really we're in no different a situation to them in relative terms.

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I think we are talking at cross purposes

I completely get your frustration. I just not sure I agree with the idea that the players consciously chose to play the way they did. I think to have half an eye on a competition we can win is human nature and there’s not a team in the world that doesn’t do it. As I said to NQ you’ve only to look at what shite Liverpool and Chelsea were putting in, in the league prior to their respective champions league finals in 2005, and 2012 and 2021.

Is it acceptable? No I agree with you, I want us to finish 2nd. But ultimately a player will think “do I want to risk injury”. It’s frustrating as fuck…I think we needed to win tonight, I’m sick of draws. But I hate defeats even more, and tonight we should have lost

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

I disagree, finishing third or worse will feel like and really is, a massive regression in the league.

Absolutely want us to finish 2nd.

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I want us to as well but there has already been regression.
Last season we pushed City all the way to the last day. We made them win it.
This year we didn’t even push Liverpool, they all but wrapped up the title before February was out.
The only thing that can rescue this season now is a CL win which my head says won’t happen which means this will be a very forgettable last season.
Next year is Arteta’s last chance to win a big trophy

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think they’ve chosen to do it. From what I’ve seen this was no different to the game at Selhurst Park where our defending was also pretty iffy. The difference is we don’t have the attacking players that we did back in December. I think equally the expectation was that Palace wouldn’t give a shit about this game.

We never in a million years deserved to win this game, Saliba brain fart or no…we were lucky not to lose tbh.

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There is definitely no argument about who deserved to win the game, obviously there was clearly only one team that gave a shit today and they rightly got something out of it.

However, I don't think we can blame not having a striker today for drawing a game that we led fortuitously TWICE.....and lets not forget we didn't even create enough clear cut chances that would feed anyone, FFS we probably created less than a quarter of the chances we created in our previous game.

Our attitude in this game stunk up the place once we took the lead, and once we analyse our season, we'll see the same pattern, a striker is not going to solve hubris related issues....

Also there was absolutely no need for such an attitude as we needed the win more than Palace did, as we need to win to ensure we even make it to the CL next year.

Again I'm repeating, there is no way we didn't need the win in this game more than Palace, and every efffing player out their knew it, or at least they were suppose to know that. If they didn't, then WTF do we have a manager for.

Honestly, like I said before, a part of me wonders if winning the CL this year wont be us signing our death warrant and sticking with this clown for longer than we need to.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think we are talking at cross purposes

I completely get your frustration. I just not sure I agree with the idea that the players consciously chose to play the way they did. I think to have half an eye on a competition we can win is human nature and there’s not a team in the world that doesn’t do it. As I said to NQ you’ve only to look at what shite Liverpool and Chelsea were putting in, in the league prior to their respective champions league finals in 2005, and 2012 and 2021.

Is it acceptable? No I agree with you, I want us to finish 2nd. But ultimately a player will think “do I want to risk injury”. It’s frustrating as fuck…I think we needed to win tonight, I’m sick of draws. But I hate defeats even more, and tonight we should have lost

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I care about what works for us and I have never seen from us it ever work for us just deciding to turn the tap on and off when we perform and when we don't.

You say it's not a choice but how can that be when they play like that tonight and might, well hopefully do play differently against PSG.

It puts in a pin in momentum after two huge results and honestly I'll be amazed if we can get the required levels on Tuesday.

Players are fucking idiots for going in half-arsed.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Honestly, have we got to April with people still thinking that we simply choose not to play better against mid table teams who allow us to dominate possession.

No we haven’t, I’m pretty sure you acknowledged yourself that we’d rather play Barcelona than Inter in the final because of how it would suit us better.

Don’t get me wrong I think we need not just strikers but better attacking midfielders to combat this, but it’s not a mindset issue. It’s a we don’t have the attacking players to break teams down unless they give us space issue

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In the closing minutes Martinelli decides to take his man on down the line, gets the cross in, Saka forces a brilliant save. That's how it has ALWAYS been done against teams that park the bus. There's no mystery, you get it wide, get the cross in, take 2 or 3 for the 20 chances. You don't need to be a coach or a tactics maestro to figure it out.

Barcelona fucked up football by convincing people their bullshit patterball was some sort of art form rather than the boredom exemplified. Barca-shitty-lona, the most gifted and utterly boring team to play the game in living memory. Wenger saw it and immediately fell in love so we got fucked up too, transformed from the actual artform of Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Vieira and co - into the Fabregas, Hleb, Ozil snoozefest. Every season because slumbertime interrupted maybe 10-20 times over the whole course by tose rare moments where the impossible intricacy somehow resulted in a goal. van Persie broke the tedium by reverting to proper football, then fucked off when he realised we weren't a serious football club but more of a vanity project.

Unfortunately Arteta buys into every last ounce of Pep's bullshit. And you saw Pep's bullshit completely exposed once his dancing and prancing primadonna mercenaries got a bit too old and started picking up the injuries.

It's all hype - these "great" managers that have led the European game into the stagnation we have now, where two teams can literally stare across the pitch at each other and tap it left, right, left, right. Yeah, you can bore the opposition to death with retention stats and yards covered sideways, and effectively park the bus yourself (which is Pep's dirty little secret in his "beautiful" game) and sure, if you spend a billion on the squad it even works. But it's not football. That shit we saw tonight is not football, it's something else and there's no excuse for it.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Why do you care about that?
Obviously I’d rather we finished 2nd than didn’t, but the 2nd Place Trophy doesn’t exist any more than the Top 4 one does.

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What? So let's get 5th then! That qualifies us for the big money next year, and we can do even less. Maybe not even turn up? Just have the league award the points in our absence? If there's no difference between 2nd and 3rd (which implies there's no difference in winning and losing) then let's call it a day now. And if it looks like we're going to drop out of the top 5, get the boys together and stick them on a caoch to the match - eek out the draws we need to win that 5th spot on goal difference. Fans might not like it - but fuck them.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

There is definitely no argument about who deserved to win the game, obviously there was clearly only one team that gave a shit today and they rightly got something out of it.

However, I don't think we can blame not having a striker today for drawing a game that we led fortuitously TWICE.....and lets not forget we didn't even create enough clear cut chances that would feed anyone, FFS we probably created less than a quarter of the chances we created in our previous game.

Our attitude in this game stunk up the place once we took the lead, and once we analyse our season, we'll see the same pattern, a striker is not going to solve hubris related issues....

Also there was absolutely no need for such an attitude as we needed the win more than Palace did, as we need to win to ensure we even make it to the CL next year.

Again I'm repeating, there is no way we didn't need the win in this game more than Palace, and every efffing player out their knew it, or at least they were suppose to know that. If they didn't, then WTF do we have a manager for.

Honestly, like I said before, a part of me wonders if winning the CL this year wont be us signing our death warrant and sticking with this clown for longer than we need to.

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I’m honestly confused, what is it you’re angry with that we didn’t defend out the lead properly or that we weren’t better going forward.

I think we were poor because Palace made us poor, we struggled to break them down and we struggled to deal with their aggression going forward. Do I think in the back of our minds that certain players might have been more reserved because they are thinking about the European cup, yeah because that’s human nature are you going to risk everything if you think you could get injured by getting into 50/50s. Of course you can argue that Palace didn’t have that mindset but I’d say they are just playing the same way they’ve played all season…they are a high intensity team…we aren’t.

I’m frustrated with tonight, but I don’t think there was any conscious desire to play the way we did. And given take away Ipswich we’ve scored an average of a goal a game since losing Havertz, probably not the worst decision in the world to soak up pressure and try and hold onto what you’ve got.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m honestly confused, what is it you’re angry with that we didn’t defend out the lead properly or that we weren’t better going forward.

I think we were poor because Palace made us poor, we struggled to break them down and we struggled to deal with their aggression going forward. Do I think in the back of our minds that certain players might have been more reserved because they are thinking about the European cup, yeah because that’s human nature are you going to risk everything if you think you could get injured by getting into 50/50s. Of course you can argue that Palace didn’t have that mindset but I’d say they are just playing the same way they’ve played all season…they are a high intensity team…we aren’t.

I’m frustrated with tonight, but I don’t think there was any conscious desire to play the way we did. And given take away Ipswich we’ve scored an average of a goal a game since losing Havertz, probably not the worst decision in the world to soak up pressure and try and hold onto what you’ve got.

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So you can't see the difference in Partey's play tonight and how he played in the 2 Euro ties? You think he was maybe tired tonight so literally had to stand still on the spot with the ball at his feet while everyone else stood around looking at him? Then backpass, sideways, sideways, backpass, back to that utter fuckhead Raya? You can't see the difference? Genuinely?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

In the closing minutes Martinelli decides to take his man on down the line, gets the cross in, Saka forces a brilliant save. That's how it has ALWAYS been done against teams that park the bus. There's no mystery, you get it wide, get the cross in, take 2 or 3 for the 20 chances. You don't need to be a coach or a tactics maestro to figure it out.

Barcelona fucked up football by convincing people their bullshit patterball was some sort of art form rather than the boredom exemplified. Barca-shitty-lona, the most gifted and utterly boring team to play the game in living memory. Wenger saw it and immediately fell in love so we got fucked up too, transformed from the actual artform of Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Vieira and co - into the Fabregas, Hleb, Ozil snoozefest. Every season because slumbertime interrupted maybe 10-20 times over the whole course by tose rare moments where the impossible intricacy somehow resulted in a goal. van Persie broke the tedium by reverting to proper football, then fucked off when he realised we weren't a serious football club but more of a vanity project.

Unfortunately Arteta buys into every last ounce of Pep's bullshit. And you saw Pep's bullshit completely exposed once his dancing and prancing primadonna mercenaries got a bit too old and started picking up the injuries.

It's all hype - these "great" managers that have led the European game into the stagnation we have now, where two teams can literally stare across the pitch at each other and tap it left, right, left, right. Yeah, you can bore the opposition to death with retention stats and yards covered sideways, and effectively park the bus yourself (which is Pep's dirty little secret in his "beautiful" game) and sure, if you spend a billion on the squad it even works. But it's not football. That shit we saw tonight is not football, it's something else and there's no excuse for it.

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You’ve heard the term verbal diarrhoea. You have verbal constipation. Just reading what you’ve written makes my eyes feel like they need fibre to allow the words to pass into my brain.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Honestly, have we got to April with people still thinking that we simply choose not to play better against mid table teams who allow us to dominate possession.

No we haven’t, I’m pretty sure you acknowledged yourself that we’d rather play Barcelona than Inter in the final because of how it would suit us better.

Don’t get me wrong I think we need not just strikers but better attacking midfielders to combat this, but it’s not a mindset issue. It’s a we don’t have the attacking players to break teams down unless they give us space issue

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I'm going to disagree with you on this one HCZ...we could have easily brushed of a side that has shifted 10 goals in their last 2 away games if we gave a shit and played to actually out score them at home.

Let me simplify what I'm saying , we lost this game because we scored early and instantly Arteta was satisfied thinking he'd strangle the game out and win.

If they'd scored first or things didn't pan out the way Arteta imagined (0-0 @60 mins), he would have approached the game differently earlier and we would have won this.

What happened today is part of the pattern which has meant we keep dropping points to teams everyone expects us to beat as we take our eye off of scoring goal after goal, but try to suffocate play when there is absolutely no need to, especially to a side that shipped 10 goals in their last 2 games and has a semifinal on Saturday.

I'm sorry my responses are coming late but I'm to upset to type and now have a banging headache after what I just witnessed.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m honestly confused, what is it you’re angry with that we didn’t defend out the lead properly or that we weren’t better going forward.

I think we were poor because Palace made us poor, we struggled to break them down and we struggled to deal with their aggression going forward. Do I think in the back of our minds that certain players might have been more reserved because they are thinking about the European cup, yeah because that’s human nature are you going to risk everything if you think you could get injured by getting into 50/50s. Of course you can argue that Palace didn’t have that mindset but I’d say they are just playing the same way they’ve played all season…they are a high intensity team…we aren’t.

I’m frustrated with tonight, but I don’t think there was any conscious desire to play the way we did. And given take away Ipswich we’ve scored an average of a goal a game since losing Havertz, probably not the worst decision in the world to soak up pressure and try and hold onto what you’ve got.

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Angry that we chose to defend our lucky lead instead of improving our play and trying to beat them 5-1.

Thats the scoreline Arteta (or any decent coach) should have been gunning for once they'd assessed their recent away form and the fact that this game meant NOTHING to Palace compared to the semifinal they've got this weekend.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

So you can't see the difference in Partey's play tonight and how he played in the 2 Euro ties? You think he was maybe tired tonight so literally had to stand still on the spot with the ball at his feet while everyone else stood around looking at him? Then backpass, sideways, sideways, backpass, back to that utter fuckhead Raya? You can't see the difference? Genuinely?

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Just as you can’t see the difference between a game where your opponent has most of the ball and you are soaking up the pressure and then you will have more space to play in when you get the ball back, and playing against a team that will give the ball to their opponents but has proven that it will play aggressively if you misplace a pass.

The difference where you will bust a lung to win the ball back against Real compared to what in many ways is a rubber stamp against Palace, where in the back of your mind you think if I give the ball away and assert myself to get it back I could pull up with a hammy issue. You have all that kind of shit running through your head and it will mess with your thinking. If we were in a title chase no game is less important than the next…but we aren’t

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Angry that we chose to defend our lucky lead instead of improving our play and trying to beat them 5-1.

Thats the scoreline Arteta (or any decent coach) should have been gunning for once they'd assessed their recent away form and the fact that this game mean NOTHING to Palace compared to the semifinal they've got this weekend.

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You can’t have a team with no strikers and expect to beat anyone 5-1. I’m sorry but that’s silly. You and I both know that we don’t have prolific attacking players currently. You can maybe duff up an Ipswich side resigned to relegation and even then you need a man advantage to do so.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

You’ve heard the term verbal diarrhoea. You have verbal constipation. Just reading what you’ve written makes my eyes feel like they need fibre to allow the words to pass into my brain.

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WTF?

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I'm going to disagree with you on this one HCZ...we could have easily brushed of a side that has shifted 10 goals in their last 2 away games if we gave a shit and played to actually out score them at home.

Let me simplify what I'm saying , we lost this game because we scored early and instantly Arteta was satisfied thinking he'd strangle the game out and win.

If they'd scored first or things didn't pan out the way Arteta imagined (0-0 @60 mins), he would have approached the game differently earlier and we would have won this.

What happened today is part of the pattern which has meant we keep dropping points to teams everyone expects us to beat as we take our eye off of scoring goal after goal, but try to suffocate play when there is absolutely no need to, especially to a side that shipped 10 goals in their last 2 games and has a semifinal on Saturday.

I'm sorry my responses are coming late but I'm to upset to type and now have a banging headache after what I just witnessed.

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They lost those games to Newcastle and Man City away who have strikers and attacking players in form

We have shown time and time again that we are vulnerable to the counter attack at home. Therefore we decided to soak up the pressure, but Palace did well to stop us getting forward quickly when we did clear our lines…and despite controlling possession we were under the cosh again.

The reason we are vulnerable to the counter is because we have to push up more to create more chances because we don’t have clinical players.

We often concede goals that come about from misplacing a pass in attacking areas…this is what happened against Brentford

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

WTF?

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Exactly my reaction when faced with one of your tirades.

I thought I was bad with condensed paragraphs

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Just as you can’t see the difference between a game where your opponent has most of the ball and you are soaking up the pressure and then you will have more space to play in when you get the ball back, and playing against a team that will give the ball to their opponents but has proven that it will play aggressively if you misplace a pass.

The difference where you will bust a lung to win the ball back against Real compared to what in many ways is a rubber stamp against Palace, where in the back of your mind you think if I give the ball away and assert myself to get it back I could pull up with a hammy issue. You have all that kind of shit running through your head and it will mess with your thinking. If we were in a title chase no game is less important than the next…but we aren’t

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I said there's a big difference between Partey standing around with his mates looking on, compared to how he played in Europe. So you say, well, that's understandable because he didn't want to scream around the pitch today at 100% risking injury. Meaning there's nothing in-between? But we both know you're doing this on purpose to try to eek out some point on the back of the most extreme interpretation of what I said.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Exactly my reaction when faced with one of your tirades.

I thought I was bad with condensed paragraphs

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Yeah but I noticed you didn't respond to my point about the claim you have been making all season, that we can't break down teams who pack the defence. I gave you direct evidence of us doing just that in this game. And mentioned it has been the long established way to break down defensive units, all through the different eras of the game. So you said - shit post, change the subject. I get it.

My frustration comes from the fact that despite weak options up front, we are still doing enough to find ourselves in winning positions. Some of these draws could so easily have been wins with a bit more care.

The reality about this season will only sink in if/when PSG send us packing.

Feel like Arteta will find himself under huge pressure unless by some miracle we win the CL.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Yeah but I noticed you didn't respond to my point about the claim you have been making all season, that we can't break down teams who pack the defence. I gave you direct evidence of us doing just that in this game. And mentioned it has been the long established way to break down defensive units, all through the different eras of the game. So you said - shit post, change the subject. I get it.

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I’m not changing the subject I’m just stating that your posts are structured in a way that make them impossible to take in. You said something about putting more crosses in as if somehow we a) have a traditional centre forward to get on the end of them that b) most premier league defences wouldn’t gobble them up all day. If you’re arguing that we should put in more crosses fine, but it’s not the base metal into gold solution, it’s just alternating one form of struggling to break teams down with another.

Then you went on your usual uncontrolled rant which I think could be summed up as if you don’t see things the way I do, you’ve been brainwashed into believing Pep ball is the way forward.

You can go direct or route one if you’ve got a player that can hold up the ball under pressure or a big lump. We don’t….so yeah sure we can do that but ultimately it’s no bigger guarantee of success than what we are doing at the moment.

Do you think it’s just a coincidence that after 24 games we had scored 49 goals, and ten games later where for all of them we’ve been without a recognised striker and for many of them with Trossard and a teenager as our only competent attacking players we managed 63 goals (14 goals in ten games, and 4 of those came against an Ipswich side that’s given up)

It would make far more sense to me to criticise the lack of concentration that led to us conceding two goals. It’s a more realistic appraisal anyhow

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

You can’t have a team with no strikers and expect to beat anyone 5-1. I’m sorry but that’s silly. You and I both know that we don’t have prolific attacking players currently. You can maybe duff up an Ipswich side resigned to relegation and even then you need a man advantage to do so.

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But we can beat City and Madrid 5-1 with no striker, apparently. We do have SOME attacking players. Third highest scorers in the league, one behind City. Scored same amount of goals as PSG in Euros so far - only one fewer than Dortmund and Munich who each played 2 games more. Effectively tied second most attacking team in the tournament.

Are you CERTAIN we don't have an attacking threat? The stats, and indeed reality, seem to say the exact opposite.

But I'm sure you are right. Entirely unrealistic for us to come a way with a win at home against Palace, give our lack of firepower.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I said there's a big difference between Partey standing around with his mates looking on, compared to how he played in Europe. So you say, well, that's understandable because he didn't want to scream around the pitch today at 100% risking injury. Meaning there's nothing in-between? But we both know you're doing this on purpose to try to eek out some point on the back of the most extreme interpretation of what I said.

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No one but no one needs to find an extreme interpretation of anything you say

Apart from anything else. I’m not even sure it’s possible at times

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m not changing the subject I’m just stating that your posts are structured in a way that make them impossible to take in. You said something about putting more crosses in as if somehow we a) have a traditional centre forward to get on the end of them that b) most premier league defences wouldn’t gobble them up all day. If you’re arguing that we should put in more crosses fine, but it’s not the base metal into gold solution, it’s just alternating one form of struggling to break teams down with another.

Then you went on your usual uncontrolled rant which I think could be summed up as if you don’t see things the way I do, you’ve been brainwashed into believing Pep ball is the way forward.

You can go direct or route one if you’ve got a player that can hold up the ball under pressure or a big lump. We don’t….so yeah sure we can do that but ultimately it’s no bigger guarantee of success than what we are doing at the moment.

Do you think it’s just a coincidence that after 24 games we had scored 49 goals, and ten games later where for all of them we’ve been without a recognised striker and for many of them with Trossard and a teenager as our only competent attacking players we managed 63 goals (14 goals in ten games, and 4 of those came against an Ipswich side that’s given up)

It would make far more sense to me to criticise the lack of concentration that led to us conceding two goals. It’s a more realistic appraisal anyhow

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So many diversions, all relying on the main issue being missed. We OPTED to play well below the levels we are capable of today. It was obviously a conscious decision. Certainly, as a result of choosing to do that, we dropped points. But that doesn't dismiss the choice to settle for a lower level of commitment to a game the club obviously deemed unimportant. That's been my complaint from the start - it's entirely unacceptable and highly disrespectful to the fans. If you disagree and find it acceptable for us to play like that, fine. But spare all the other BS about us not having the capacity to get the result today.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

No one but no one needs to find an extreme interpretation of anything you say

Apart from anything else. I’m not even sure it’s possible at times

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No answer there again.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

But we can beat City and Madrid 5-1 with no striker, apparently. We do have SOME attacking players. Third highest scorers in the league, one behind City. Scored same amount of goals as PSG in Euros so far - only one fewer than Dortmund and Munich who each played 2 games more. Effectively tied second most attacking team in the tournament.

Are you CERTAIN we don't have an attacking threat? The stats, and indeed reality, seem to say the exact opposite.

But I'm sure you are right. Entirely unrealistic for us to come a way with a win at home against Palace, give our lack of firepower.

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I’m not Letters, I’m not getting into circular arguments with you forever

Nor am I going to do what you do and accuse you of wilfully misunderstanding. But do you think Real Madrid decided to create fuck all against us at home? Or do you think because we know how devastating they can be in attack if given the chance to launch a quick break we gave up possession to them which in turn allowed us to exploit space when we won the ball.

We aren’t having to break teams like Real Madrid down , the space is already there.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

So many diversions, all relying on the main issue being missed. We OPTED to play well below the levels we are capable of today. It was obviously a conscious decision. Certainly, as a result of choosing to do that, we dropped points. But that doesn't dismiss the choice to settle for a lower level of commitment to a game the club obviously deemed unimportant. That's been my complaint from the start - it's entirely unacceptable and highly disrespectful to the fans. If you disagree and find it acceptable for us to play like that, fine. But spare all the other BS about us not having the capacity to get the result today.

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I’m sorry, aren’t you the person who a few messages back lectured me on making an either or binary argument with nothing in between.

Where have I said the result is acceptable ?

I disagree that we have consciously chosen to play the way we did. For me it’s a mixture of a) human nature where no matter how much you might have been told not to think about the semi final and how you might miss it if you think twice about putting in x tackle or running x amount of kilometres and it might make you hesitant in your reactions and b) playing against a team that like many premier league teams plays to our weakness…not having a consistent attack or even attacking focal point to help break down obdurate teams.

So no, I’m sorry to say you asserting something is obvious is just an assertion

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m not Letters, I’m not getting into circular arguments with you forever

Nor am I going to do what you do and accuse you of wilfully misunderstanding. But do you think Real Madrid decided to create fuck all against us at home? Or do you think because we know how devastating they can be in attack if given the chance to launch a quick break we gave up possession to them which in turn allowed us to exploit space when we won the ball.

We aren’t having to break teams like Real Madrid down , the space is already there.

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Yeah, I already knew what the problem is with you. You figure yourself some sort of football expert, having to painfully explain the insider's knowledge to us plebs in the cheap seats. And when the plebs say, wait, that's not what I saw on the pitch - and you contradicted yourself several times anyway, Mr Expert - you chuck out an attempted put-down so you can take a breather from digging ever deeper holes.

Now you want to compare the Madrid games to today as if Palace pulled off some masterclass that rendered the team who beat Madrid incapable. Once again missing the fact we played way, way below our level - obviously by design. And the tiresomeness of it all, having to explain to me the intricacies of something I wasn't even talking about. I said, we were shit today because we didn't give a fuck. Seems to be what most fans are saying. Some say unacceptable, others say understandable. You say, no, no, there's far more to it - and then you get your whiteboard out. Patiently tutoring us on how it's "silly" to expect a decent performance against Palace at home. Okay, if that's what you want to do. Maybe in your deep, tactical musings there's an answer to why we decided to exert ZERO pressure - you;d think that would be the last thing we'd do against a team apparently so hard to break down (except when we did).

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m sorry, aren’t you the person who a few messages back lectured me on making an either or binary argument with nothing in between.

Where have I said the result is acceptable ?

I disagree that we have consciously chosen to play the way we did. For me it’s a mixture of a) human nature where no matter how much you might have been told not to think about the semi final and how you might miss it if you think twice about putting in x tackle or running x amount of kilometres and it might make you hesitant in your reactions and b) playing against a team that like many premier league teams plays to our weakness…not having a consistent attack or even attacking focal point to help break down obdurate teams.

So no, I’m sorry to say you asserting something is obvious is just an assertion

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Didn't say you said you find it acceptable. I said, "if". Then you go on to speculate that we didn't put in the required effort today because it's human nature, supported by another claim that breaking down defences is our weakness, despite the stats I gave you.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Yeah, I already knew what the problem is with you. You figure yourself some sort of football expert, having to painfully explain the insider's knowledge to us plebs in the cheap seats. And when the plebs say, wait, that's not what I saw on the pitch - and you contradicted yourself several times anyway, Mr Expert - you chuck out an attempted put-down so you can take a breather from digging ever deeper holes.

Now you want to compare the Madrid games to today as if Palace pulled off some masterclass that rendered the team who beat Madrid incapable. Once again missing the fact we played way, way below our level - obviously by design. And the tiresomeness of it all, having to explain to me the intricacies of something I wasn't even talking about. I said, we were shit today because we didn't give a fuck. Seems to be what most fans are saying. Some say unacceptable, others say understandable. You say, no, no, there's far more to it - and then you get your whiteboard out. Patiently tutoring us on how it's "silly" to expect a decent performance against Palace at home. Okay, if that's what you want to do. Maybe in your deep, tactical musings there's an answer to why we decided to exert ZERO pressure - you;d think that would be the last thing we'd do against a team apparently so hard to break down (except when we did).

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No I said it’s silly to expect us to score 5 goals against them

Given that in the previous nine league games we’ve scored 12 goals (a third of those coming against Ipswich) scored more than one goal against only one team that wasn’t in the bottom three (Fulham). It’s reasonable to think that we are struggling to score goals.

I’m not saying we couldn’t play better than we did, and as even you acknowledge I’m not saying the result is acceptable

I’m saying that a team that struggles to break teams down when they cede possession might just might in the back of their mind be that little more hesitant, and I’m saying that’s more of an unconscious reaction than some conscious decision to play within ourselves. The players we have available to us and the style of play we have is more amenable to playing teams that will try and dominate possession and prioritise scoring against us over preventing us from scoring.

That’s a weakness on Arteta’s part both in terms of personnel and tactically but realistically it’s not getting addressed this side of the end of the season.


I don’t think you’re too stupid to realise this, I think you’re too stubborn to acknowledge it.

I don’t know where you pull this thing that I think I’m some kind of genius when it comes to footballing knowledge

I’m applying Occam’s Razor. No more no less. I’ve consistently said for months that in the league we had to recalibrate our expectations in terms of results and in the amount of goals we score.

I’m annoyed tonight because we contrived to drop points despite scoring two goals which was largely due to concentration issues at the back, not because we didn’t blow palace away they aren’t Ipswich and they weren’t down to ten men.


We don’t have the players in attack or midfield to make teams that cough up the majority of possession to us part like the Red Sea.


I don’t think I’m seeing anything that anyone else can’t see for themselves. As i pointed out to the other guy, when you already state you’d rather play Barcelona than Inter in the final (when Barcelona have the better players) you know what this team is about

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Like I said - play the fucking kids! At least they'd go out and make a game of it.

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Unfortunately Arteta doesn't get that, he has a poor grasp of what motivates players outside the select few, it's like the teacher who only bothers with the kids who sit at the front of the classroom

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What? So let's get 5th then! That qualifies us for the big money next year, and we can do even less. Maybe not even turn up? Just have the league award the points in our absence? If there's no difference between 2nd and 3rd (which implies there's no difference in winning and losing) then let's call it a day now. And if it looks like we're going to drop out of the top 5, get the boys together and stick them on a caoch to the match - eek out the draws we need to win that 5th spot on goal difference. Fans might not like it - but fuck them.

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Point of order, one "eke"s out draws. Eek is what you say when you see a ghost. :lol: But that pedantry aside...
I'll be disappointed if we don't finish 2nd. We've been the 2nd best side in a very poor league this season. The fact that Liverpool will wrap up the title this early is testament to how poor the quality has been, they're better than everyone else but they're not that special.
The only real difference between 2nd and 3rd is a bit of prize money - which we've more than made up for with our CL run anyway. We're not going to have an open top bus parade for finishing 2nd again.
You decried the Top 4 Trophy thing, do you now want the 2nd place trophy?

I want us to finish 2nd, but if we do slip to 3rd of 4th then it isn't really going to add much extra disappointment if any to the already disappointing season.
Only the CL can mitigate that now.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

2-2 FT.

Another fucking draw.

I can't understand why players just want to toss away momentum.

Only got themselves to blame if they can't get up to the levels required for PSG.

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Umm. You know we drew both league games before the two Real games, right?
I understand a bit of frustration but I'd finding the depth of it a bit weird in the context of a long since dead league campaign and a CL semi-final to think about.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Point of order, one "eke"s out draws. Eek is what you say when you see a ghost. :lol: But that pedantry aside...
I'll be disappointed if we don't finish 2nd. We've been the 2nd best side in a very poor league this season. The fact that Liverpool will wrap up the title this early is testament to how poor the quality has been, they're better than everyone else but they're not that special.
The only real difference between 2nd and 3rd is a bit of prize money - which we've more than made up for with our CL run anyway. We're not going to have an open top bus parade for finishing 2nd again.
You decried the Top 4 Trophy thing, do you now want the 2nd place trophy?

I want us to finish 2nd, but if we do slip to 3rd of 4th then it isn't really going to add much extra disappointment if any to the already disappointing season.
Only the CL can mitigate that now.

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Not an unreasonable statement at all. The only benefit from finishing 2nd is prestige (which in fact would paper over a pretty horrible season).

But it’s strangely important to me, although I realise there’s no reason why it should be

As for the Palace game itself, I thought the team played within itself and was hesitant at times where I disagree with people on here is that this was a deliberate tactical decision and not players a) thinking about the semi finals (is it acceptable or professional? No but it’s human) b) worried about the Palace counter attack, because I have to say in the league there isn’t the confidence that we can outscore teams (and with good reason)

Apparently this makes me a self declared tactical genius to say that we are more confident playing teams like Real Madrid who will have more possession but in doing so leave more space, than teams who will soak up the pressure and break on you. I don’t just accept that we will struggle against teams that allow us to control possession, but given we are playing with no strikers and we arent set up nor do we have the players to benefit from playing more direct….i can understand when it has been a struggle.
I don’t think we simply tried to hold on to a one goal lead but I think when we struggle to extend it as we did last night it can make us retreat within ourselves somewhat. I don’t think that’s a conscious decision though.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Would love to know how many points we’ve dropped from winning positions because I can’t quite remember a season like this in terms of draws.

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It's 18 apparently :lol: :doh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Umm. You know we drew both league games before the two Real games, right?
I understand a bit of frustration but I'd finding the depth of it a bit weird in the context of a long since dead league campaign and a CL semi-final to think about.

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I think drawing 13 games and twice giving away a lead at home is frustrating as fuck

I think albeit tentatively I think we tried to extend our lead, but often I think because we know we are struggling to finish teams off, that affects us mentally. Either in being too cautious going forward or making silly mistakes at the back

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Point of order, one "eke"s out draws. Eek is what you say when you see a ghost. :lol: But that pedantry aside...
I'll be disappointed if we don't finish 2nd. We've been the 2nd best side in a very poor league this season. The fact that Liverpool will wrap up the title this early is testament to how poor the quality has been, they're better than everyone else but they're not that special.
The only real difference between 2nd and 3rd is a bit of prize money - which we've more than made up for with our CL run anyway. We're not going to have an open top bus parade for finishing 2nd again.
You decried the Top 4 Trophy thing, do you now want the 2nd place trophy?

I want us to finish 2nd, but if we do slip to 3rd of 4th then it isn't really going to add much extra disappointment if any to the already disappointing season.
Only the CL can mitigate that now.

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The worry now is not about just dropping a position or two, it is the fact that we are only one more dud result away from being in danger and fighting to stay in the top 5. Which is a ridiculous situation to find ourselves in given the cushion we had.

We now have to beat Bournemouth sandwiched between PSG and then hope for something at Anfield followed by Newcastle who could conceivably be in a position to overtake us with a win that fixture.

The only saving grace is that we have Southampton on the final day but as I said, the fact this is even a conversation now is pathetic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's 18 apparently :lol: :doh:

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Yep

1-1 Brighton
2-2 Man City
2-2 Liverpool
1-1 Chelsea
1-1 Brighton
2-2 Aston Villa
1-1 Everton
1-1 Brentford
2-2 Palace


In all but one of those games we only had a one goal lead and I think the struggle to build on that lead, where we either overcommit or make a mistake at the back (or in 5 of those 9 games have match officials punishing us) causes this.

I thought we played well against Brentford but ultimately you give the ball away and you have opposition players steaming down the pitch and you don’t cut out one ball and they are there


I don’t think defensively we are really any weaker, in terms of goals conceded we are still the best defence in the league

I think these dropped points are all about failing to kill teams off. And again despite what people on here claim, I don’t think that’s a tactical choice to sit on a one goal lead (because in fact most of the time we aren’t).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

The worry now is not about just dropping a position or two, it is the fact that we are only one more dud result away from being in danger and fighting to stay in the top 5. Which is a ridiculous situation to find ourselves in given the cushion we had.

We now have to beat Bournemouth sandwiched between PSG and then hope for something at Anfield followed by Newcastle who could conceivably be in a position to overtake us with a win that fixture.

The only saving grace is that we have Southampton on the final day but as I said, the fact this is even a conversation now is pathetic.

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I don’t think we can be blasé, but equally we have been dropping points left, right and centre and really we’ve come no closer to dropping out of 2nd than we were a month ago (and now with fewer games). It seems that no team can get the required momentum

I’m frustrated because the opportunity was there to put it to bed. But I’ve had the worry you’ve expressed here for the last month or so, and in reality it’s not materialised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think we can be blasé, but equally we have been dropping points left, right and centre and really we’ve come no closer to dropping out of 2nd than we were a month ago (and now with fewer games). It seems that no team can get the required momentum

I’m frustrated because the opportunity was there to put it to bed. But I’ve had the worry you’ve expressed here for the last month or so, and in reality it’s not materialised.

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I wasn’t worried before because I felt we had a string of winnable fixtures but now we’ve fluffed them all, we’re left with the most trickiest games that we’ll need results in. There hasn’t been any momentum in the league for months so I do genuinely feel that our top 5 place is in danger. If we don’t beat Bournemouth then it’s squeaky bum time for sure.