When will Arteta be sacked by

Anyway I really have to go back to work, whilst this place is distracting. My old dog responded when I spoke to her by pining her ears back, slanting her head and wagging her tail and this is just reminding me of that, without any endearing quality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

You’re an intelligent guy (I know it’s relative to people on here, most of whom if a plastic bag was put over their heads would asphyxiate before working out to take it off) surely you can see how vapid and superficial an argument that is?


Names don’t matter because Managers/Head coaches are functionaries or at least should be. If a squad is well assembled it largely manages itself. The idea of the manager being this mastermind Generalissimo is a very analogue one and exists only to keep the egos of men like Arteta inflated.

---

I don't think it's vapid or superficial to point out that changing an excellent manager who has created a squad that you clearly acknowledge has been well assembled (though not perfect), and got us to a position that would be envied by most other clubs carries significant risk.

Do you think that Arteta will struggle to get a position at one of Europe's top clubs when he leaves? If so I have no doubt you will be proven wrong. If not then logically you have to acknowledge my point.

As for the idea that managers are merely 'functionaries' in the sense that a squad largely manages itself - really? If that's the case why haven't Chelsea walked the league recently - given the money they have spent? In fact, why is the actual position of every team in the league in 2024/25 different to its wage bill? To suggest that in any team sport management is effectively divorced from the talent of its manager is strethcing your argument beyond breaking point. Not to mention that it makes any discussion about Arteta's successor pretty pointless, and reduces it to 'anyone but Arteta'. Most clear minded Gooners can see the obvious flaw in this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

It also ignores the obvious fact that Arteta remains one of the best managers around.

---

Is that an obvious fact?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

If you don’t know what it had to do with you, maybe you shouldn’t have posted it….and go back to flinging faeces about

I can only explain in so many ways, if you can’t make the bridge in understanding it’s really not my fault. I don’t suppose it’s anyones…it’s just that obviously in your case there was a cul de sac evolution went down


Sexual deviancy?. I don’t know anything about that. If you’re talking about yourself….usually it’s standard practice or was to castrate the intellectually feeble to stop them from procreating. So if you’re assuming that other men are coming on to you, maybe they were remiss when it came time to take away your nuts

---

The only person in a cul de sac here is you, as you are clearly struggling to connect the dots nor explain your recent behaviour....but maybe I'm wrong and it's not sexual, maybe its a corrupted Tourette like malady you are afflicted with, who the hell knows.....but this is my last reply to you on this , so you can go on and have the last word (which we all know you need to, or you cease to exist :lol: )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

Yes none of us (I assume) are experts in football across Europe and beyond to single out the best new manager (though I do agree with HCZ that we should revert to the 'head coach' model - making Arteta full manager was a big mistake).

I actually think Amorim will come good in the end at Man Ure and we need to be looking at people like that.

Letters is right, Arteta has done a lot of good things in terms of rebuilding trust and building a team cohesion, but maybe that's all he has for us and to actually be at the top, rather than also-rans, it’s now maybe someone else's job to add to that work

The trouble with Arteta is it's not a case of him gaining more experience, he's just so stubborn and cautious that I’m not sure that will ever change, at least not as long as he's here - ironically I could see him going elsewhere and using that shift to move himself on, but it’s happening too slowly here, if at all – he’s wedded to control and defensive players over attack and quick transition and it's making us turkeys.

I really think top four (and yes that is very important) is in real danger now, with Newcastle, Citeh, Forest and Chelsea at the very least genuine challengers to unseat us – losing CL would be a disaster, players like Saliba might go elsewhere and it would be harder to recruit, not to mention the loss of income.

For that reason, those who want Arteta to go should want us to do really badly from here on, as if we lose top four then the Kroenkes will take a long hard look at Arteta.

I don’t really want that bad run to happen though, because I’m an Arsenal fan and don’t want to see us lose game after game, but there’s a real danger of it now.

I think we’re about to hit a real dip but let’s see, Arsenal have pulled it out of the bag before, but some attacking recruits and a change of mindset from Arteta are crucial – the first has to be a real possibility, the second I fear not so much…

---

I agree with most of your post - but it's let down by hose who want Arteta to go should want us to do really badly from here on.

For all my caution about the reality of changing our manager - for me the odds are that this will not bring us the instant success we crave (bar very good luck with tiny pot of potential candidates) - I see and have ponted out what I think are Arteta's flaws many times. I am also wary about Arteta having too much power and a lack of counter to this - just as we saw with Wenger - and I see the force of HCZ's point about having a head coach rather than a manager.

I like your last line - this reflects what I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I don't think it's vapid or superficial to point out that changing an excellent manager who has created a squad that you clearly acknowledge has been well assembled (though not perfect), and got us to a position that would be envied by most other clubs carries significant risk.

Do you think that Arteta will struggle to get a position at one of Europe's top clubs when he leaves? If so I have no doubt you will be proven wrong. If not then logically you have to acknowledge my point.

As for the idea that managers are merely 'functionaries' in the sense that a squad largely manages itself - really? If that's the case why haven't Chelsea walked the league recently - given the money they have spent? In fact, why is the actual position of every team in the league in 2024/25 different to its wage bill? To suggest that in any team sport management is effectively divorced from the talent of its manager is strethcing your argument beyond breaking point. Not to mention that it makes any discussion about Arteta's successor pretty pointless, and reduces it to 'anyone but Arteta'. Most clear minded Gooners can see the obvious flaw in this.

---

Because the whole set up at Chelsea is a complete mess and whatever guy wants to self harm enough to take on that job is invariably the lightning rod when it goes wrong.

I’m not saying Anyone but Arteta, because there are clearly people out there with bigger egos than him. But the point is someone of that personality type wouldn’t take up the role of head coach because they would want to be the Daddy.

Nothing worthwhile is without risk, you would have to have a set up at the club that could accommodate the model I prescribe, and would be a case of getting the right people in all the key positions. What I’m trying to do (and obviously not succeeding at) is weening people off this idea of the Manager being this singular agent of change….i don’t think it has to be that way and it’s harmful when it is.

I even explained to the idiot getting cross with me yesterday evening that Arteta could do the job if he had it within him to swallow his pride, go back to being the head coach and be prepared to shit can his galaxy brained idiosyncrasies


I don’t think he’s capable of that though. That’s not even a dig at him…I wouldn’t be capable of it….id see it as an insult

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Is that an obvious fact?

---

With the money he has spent (and who he has spent it on) and the unconventional time we've given him to master his craft.... I must say the results so far don't suggest he is doing anything out of the ordinary.

I think so. When you look at European manager rankings he is consistently in the top 10 or even 5. Do you disagree?

Arteta needs to go not because he’s tactically inferior or anything like that but because he’s too convinced of his own superiority to be flexible. I think Guardiola equally suffers from this.

I think Arteta would succeed if he went somewhere where his clear negative attributes would be cancelled out by the quality of player he has at his disposal. But there’s no way he’d succeed at a club of our size that isn’t one of super clubs like Bayern or Real Madrid.

Guardiola similarly would have failed at Arsenal, I'm sure of it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I think so. When you look at European manager rankings he is consistently in the top 10 or even 5. Do you disagree?

---

I don’t know because as I say I’m utterly convinced that it’s pointless to rank managers, when the success they have is largely dependent on the club they manage. I suppose the difference is between managers who are totally incompetent and egotistical and ones who can do what their told.

I think though Klopp stands out as the best coach because he was in the title race so long last season with a team that had absolutely no right to be there, and what’s more he left the blueprint for someone to succeed in his stead when Man City collapsed and Arsenal glued their own dick to their belly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Because the whole set up at Chelsea is a complete mess and whatever guy wants to self harm enough to take on that job is invariably the lightning rod when it goes wrong.

I’m not saying Anyone but Arteta, because there are clearly people out there with bigger egos than him. But the point is someone of that personality type wouldn’t take up the role of head coach because they would want to be the Daddy.

Nothing worthwhile is without risk, you would have to have a set up at the club that could accommodate the model I prescribe, and would be a case of getting the right people in all the key positions. What I’m trying to do (and obviously not succeeding at) is weening people off this idea of the Manager being this singular agent of change….i don’t think it has to be that way and it’s harmful when it is.

I even explained to the idiot getting cross with me yesterday evening that Arteta could do the job if he had it within him to swallow his pride, go back to being the head coach and be prepared to shit can his galaxy brained idiosyncrasies


I don’t think he’s capable of that though. That’s not even a dig at him…I wouldn’t be capable of it….id see it as an insult

---

See I don't disagree with most of what you say in this post. My point has always been that while solutions can look attractive in theory, the reality is that we need to be careful what we wish for. Your point about having to have the right set up, (not to mention good decision making as well as a significan't slice of luck) on a managerial/head coach appointment that sees us push on from here illustrates the number of things that the club would have to get right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t know because as I say I’m utterly convinced that it’s pointless to rank managers, when the success they have is largely dependent on the club they manage. I suppose the difference is between managers who are totally incompetent and egotistical and ones who can do what their told.

I think though Klopp stands out as the best coach because he was in the title race so long last season with a team that had absolutely no right to be there, and what’s more he left the blueprint for someone to succeed in his stead when Man City collapsed and Arsenal glued their own dick to their belly.

---

Maybe so - but as there is no other way 'objectively' to assess managers then anything else becomes meaningless because it is then simply a question of personal preference. Letters questioned whether it is obvious that Arteta is one of the best managers around. I think it is obvious - at least that he is regarded as such. And if rankings are not your thing, I ask again whether people think he would get a job at a top club if he left. Barring an utter implosion at Arsenal - which I don't think is going to happen - he almost certainly would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

See I don't disagree with most of what you say in this post. My point has always been that while solutions can look attractive in theory, the reality is that we need to be careful what we wish for. Your point about having to have the right set up, (not to mention good decision making as well as a significan't slice of luck) on a managerial/head coach appointment that sees us push on from here illustrates the number of things that the club would have to get right.

---

It does but for me it’s chemotherapy, kill or cure…there is no alternative at this point. Arteta is despite the objections to me using the word a cancer or more precisely a tumour, an obstructive mass. You’ve only to speak to my sister in law to know of the horrendous side effects cancer treatment had on her. But I don’t see any alternative. To say we should be grateful for where we are is malignant thinking. Our ambitions have to be limitless and our willingness to do what needs to be done to meet these ambitions also limitless.

Arteta as I said was given a green light to take the title when Rodri was injured, he stalled on the grid. The pressure was too much, and instead he’s blamed refereeing decisions and injuries.

He’s the Eddie Irvine in 1999 of premier league managers…there’s no Schumacher this time round but still going to fuck it up, and Liverpool are the Mikka Hakkinen…not great but they’ll take the title for a second time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I think so. When you look at European manager rankings he is consistently in the top 10 or even 5. Do you disagree?

---

If that's what the European rankings say then it's a fact, not something I can agree or disagree with. Do I agree he should be in that top 5 or 10...I'm not super-convinced.
I would note that for decades England have been near the top of the world rankings with no sign that they'll do much of note in the finals of a tournament. I'm a bit sceptical of those kinds of rankings.
I don't know what they are based on but the money we've spent has to be factored in to any assessment of him.
It's like Pep. Sure, he's a good manager but he's not exactly done what, say, Clough did at Forest or what Santo is doing there now.
It's certainly possible to spend money without improving the team as Utd are showing to hilarious effect, but I'm not sure Arteta is working miracles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

If that's what the European rankings say then it's a fact, not something I can agree or disagree with. Do I agree he should be in that top 5 or 10...I'm not super-convinced.
I would note that for decades England have been near the top of the world rankings with no sign that they'll do much of note in the finals of a tournament. I'm a bit sceptical of those kinds of rankings.
I don't know what they are based on but the money we've spent has to be factored in to any assessment of him.
It's like Pep. Sure, he's a good manager but he's not exactly done what, say, Clough did at Forest or what Santo is doing there now.
It's certainly possible to spend money without improving the team as Utd are showing to hilarious effect, but I'm not sure Arteta is working miracles.

---

Firstly, the point you took issue with was whether Arteta was clearly an excellent manager. I've given as 'objective' a case as I can for this, that I think is sound. You can agree, disagree or (pedantically) claim that you you can't if this a fact, but these rankings are based on both facts and opinions. Nevertheless, they are an indication of what the football community thinks of managers' relative strenghts.

You know that I'm aligned with you re misgivings about whether Arteta can take us where we want to go...and agree that this has to be assessed at the end of the season. But I said that he was an excellent manager, not a generational one. Guardiola is generally regarded as one of the best of all time - and whether or not you disagree with this, he has certainly revolutionised football at times in terms of new tactics/ways to approach the game. Also, his 'greatness' is not generally regarded as diminished because of the funds he has had at his disposal.

Of course at its most basic, the team with the most talent is likely to be more successful, but even by this metric, Areta has over-performed, as we are 4th highest spenders (expenditure - not net spend) over a 5 years period (interestingly, this season we are 10th highest, only just above Nottingham Forest), so if we are assessiong our manager based on pure spending we are currently way exceeding the money table).

We also need to factor in the base we started at. This goes both for transfer fees - we were in such a mess when Arteta joined that we had completely to overhall our squad (unlike Citeh and Liverpool) and had dross that was difficult to shift (partly caused by years of under-performance that translates into player value). So merely looking at the figures creates a misleading picture. But also our manager. He was a rookie - and this has to be factored into his performance - which is the more impressive for this.

I think Arteta would definitely get a top job after us, I can see him at Madrid or Bayern, however that is perhaps more to do with the trend of hiring promising young coaches with perceived high ceilings. I mean, Kompany got the Bayern job and I don’t think anyone would say he’s a better coach than Arteta.

Arteta has done a very good job for us but I would stop short of saying a great job unless this journey ends in a league title which is looking highly unlikely, for this season anyway.

I don’t think we’ll know how good he really is until he works elsewhere. 5 years ago Pochettino left Spurs as one of the most highly regarded coaches in Europe but hasn’t done anything of note since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I think so. When you look at European manager rankings he is consistently in the top 10 or even 5. Do you disagree?

---

Well according to UEFA Manager of the year awards, he's only been able to break into the top list, once in the last 5 years, which was the 02-03 campaign, which most people will agree was rightly deserved (his best campaign IMO).

He didn't break into the list last year (totally agree with this) but only 6 nominees were announced.

Interesting to note that across the years a lot of managers who made it into the list still got the sack or were pushed out and in the in the EPL we got names like De Zerbi, Solsjkaer, Tuchel, Moysie and Klopp.

Looking at past members of the list, it's likely he'd get a big club after leaving us as you suggested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA...the_Year_Award

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Well according to UEFA Manager of the year awards, he's only been able to break into the top list, once in the last 5 years, which was the 02-03 campaign, which most people will agree was rightly deserved (his best campaign IMO).

He didn't break into the list last year (totally agree with this) but only 6 nominees were announced.

Interesting to note that across the years a lot of managers who made it into the list still got the sack or were pushed out and in the in the EPL we got names like De Zerbi, Solsjkaer, Tuchel, Moysie and Klopp.

Looking at past members of the list, it's likely he'd get a big club after leaving us as you suggested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA...the_Year_Award

---

There are various different rankings - from various sources (some more credible than others) - that have Arteta in the top ten (or even 5). I was trying to make the point that in teh wider football world he is well regarded as an excellent manager. As you point out, reputations can rise or fall, and I think that why this issue is one of the best debated points on GW for a while is that we can all see that we are at a crossroads with Arteta. Although this is all relative, we are currently in one of the trickiest situations he has been in under him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think there is this smug superiority about being British.

---

That's the most palpably ludicrous thing you've said so far and boy is there a high bar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

5 years ago Pochettino left Spurs as one of the most highly regarded coaches in Europe but hasn’t done anything of note since.

---

Yes and which proves he got lucky at spuds with a young and talented team which clicked, which I've consistently said dating back to the time

Perhaps the same happened with Arteta in the last two seasons, that may have been his Ponce golden era right then and there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Because the whole set up at Chelsea is a complete mess

---

or rather has been a mess over the last couple of seasons but even then they brought in talented players, often younger ones, who are now starting to prove their worth under a manager who's up to the job

I'd swap half our team and manager for theirs right now tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

That's the most palpably ludicrous thing you've said so far and boy is there a high bar

---

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/st...CrumbLaugh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

or rather has been a mess over the last couple of seasons but even then they brought in talented players, often younger ones, who are now starting to prove their worth under a manager who's up to the job

I'd swap half our team and manager for theirs right now tbh

---

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/st...CrumbLaugh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/...uit-of-empire/

There is clearly a case to be made. Like everything there are counter arguments, but it's a persuasive argument to say that our exit from Europe was driven by voters' desire to 'making Britain great again'.

---

I’ll do you the respect of assuming you understand the difference between wanting to make something “great again” and being bellicose about your own innate sense of superiority. Whilst I think these people were to a degree deluded or led up the garden path, the point is not belief in superiority it’s this sense of loss over what was compared to now what is. Often I think people are guilty of crying for the moon and thinking everything was somehow better at some nebulous time in the past. But it’s usually resulting from a sense of dispossession (economic or cultural)

If you compare the UK to any other country in terms of national pride, we really are very understated with it….largely because there is this middle class elitist attitude exemplified by Remain activists who regard patriotism as meandering between uncool and vaguely fascistic. It’s nothing new, the intellectual class that saw themselves as the vanguard of the left in the 1920s and 1930s right up to the Jeremy Corbyn’s of this world…whilst there is affectation of being sympathetic to the plight of the working class, it’s essentially patronising and paternalistic.

And ultimately when the working class turn against the left, it’s a case of them being called thick racist gammons

Although really I should say England more than Britain. Welsh and Scottish nationalism are actually treated as far less toxic than perhaps they should be. But if England was this triumphalist country and wasn’t actually in the main ashamed of flying the flag, there wouldn’t be this vaccum that the populist right parties have inhabited and at every moment cover their banal literature in images of the flag.

I have no doubt you’ve heard terms like flag shagger, and I can’t think of a term more sneering that accentuates more bile to anyone who thinks of this country in a positive way. The paradigm example of this was someone like Emily Thornberry tweeting an image of someone with an England flag on their van with utter mocking contempt. That’s a politician from a mainstream party, you would never get that anywhere else not with the Scottish Saltire, the Welsh dragon, the Irish or French Tricolour….and certainly not in the United States where they really wear their patriotism on their sleeves

And by the way I’m not going to cite Daily Mail rage bait articles where someone has apparently complained about the flying of the flag on St George’s Day. Because it most instances it’s utter bollocks, or taken out of context and the complainer has turned out to be some curtain twitching little Hitler

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

There are various different rankings - from various sources (some more credible than others) - that have Arteta in the top ten (or even 5). I was trying to make the point that in teh wider football world he is well regarded as an excellent manager. As you point out, reputations can rise or fall, and I think that why this issue is one of the best debated points on GW for a while is that we can all see that we are at a crossroads with Arteta. Although this is all relative, we are currently in one of the trickiest situations he has been in under him.

---

Yeah, I agree the wider football world think he's great, but like you also pointed out, reputations come and go quite easily. A simple example is what we did to Emery, we gave the kiss of death to his career when we sacked him, but he appears on that list at least twice after that.

Anyway, on your last point of this being a tricky situation, is it really?

I mean currently we are 2nd in the EPL and could still win it mathematically. We've scored more goals and defended almost as good as we did last season at this stage. WEe are doing pretty well in the CL and are apparently one of the favourites. We're in every competition and could still do the quadruple....:lol: (even I've got to laugh at that).

Looking at where we are currently, an outsider who is totally "independent" and maybe not too familiar with football culture, would find it strange that there is this level of discontent among the fanbase.

I feel if Citeh was where Liverpool is right now people would not be calling for Arteta to go.

I feel if Klopp had stayed and Liverpool had managed these same results, there would be still less people calling for Arteta to go.

Our rivals took a risk, changed things, some have continued to fail like (Man U and Spuds) while others are seeing massive benefits like Chelsea and Liverpool. The ones who have failed will keep trying to change things till they get it right..... I think it's clear what's eating us up...

Lastly and clearly figuratively, it's Tuesday, Arterta is Martinelli, we've had that fast break and it's only him and the Newcastle keeper, one on one,.....why are we not celebrating this and doubting that he's going to score?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dostoy

You don't think a name is relevant!!!!!!!!!!

It is THE most relevant thing.

Name a name who you want to replace Arteta in whatever form you like.

---

It's not our job to name replacements, that's up to the club to get it right.

Always hate these questions because they are stupid.

We can all see when things are not working and the manager is at fault - but why do any of us HAVE to name someone to replace them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I couldn't agree more mate. You have owned this thread. Further it is even a question of coming up with aspirational names, but looking at the likelihood that any managerial change would improve a team that is currently second in league and has been for the previous 2 seasons. Of course it's possible, but the overwhelming likelihood is that it wouldn't - at least before a few more years of turmoil.

Does this mean that Areta couldn't be improved on - no. Does it mean that if we fall short of a trophy again this season, the club should not think of a successor? No. But this developing trend of 'grass is greeener' links justified criticism of our manager's shortcomings with a pipe dream that (mostly un-named) saviours will finish the job he set out to do. It also ignores the obvious fact that Arteta remains one of the best managers around.

As you point out, unless we finish outside the top 4 this season, there's no chance of Arteta being sacked by the club, so misgivings or not, we need to get over it.

---

He's owned the thread about as much as I own this message board.

What is with this ridiculous notion in the Arsenal fanbase, that no one can dare say they want 'X' gone (manager or player) without naming a suitable replacement as some kind of justification for their opinion?!
Honestly, it's fucking pathetic.

Ok I'll say Zidane - thank you very much, where do I collect my Arsenal F.C. pay check for £500,000 from?

But yeh sure, let's wait til the end of the season and see if we finish top 4, suck it up and get over it.
It'll only be another 10 years+ of winning nothing again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

https://tribuna.com/en/news/arsenal-...ing-authority/

What I would say is that if fans don't clearly start showing discontent, we're going to struggle to push Arteta out, as we all agree that the Kronkes still don't get the culture and are only after the bottom line.

---

Fixed it for you :good:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Is that an obvious fact?

---

I have the same question.

What are his qualifications that determine that fact?
He must have a pretty comprehensive list of honours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I think Arteta would definitely get a top job after us, I can see him at Madrid or Bayern, however that is perhaps more to do with the trend of hiring promising young coaches with perceived high ceilings. I mean, Kompany got the Bayern job and I don’t think anyone would say he’s a better coach than Arteta.

Arteta has done a very good job for us but I would stop short of saying a great job unless this journey ends in a league title which is looking highly unlikely, for this season anyway.

I don’t think we’ll know how good he really is until he works elsewhere. 5 years ago Pochettino left Spurs as one of the most highly regarded coaches in Europe but hasn’t done anything of note since.

---

:gp: Spot on

That and as I’ve repeatedly stated, it’s reductive and misses the point

The point I feel is not that Arteta has missed out on the title because he’s tactically inadequate, it’s because he is risk adverse, egomaniacal and needs to control things.

Liverpool I can only think every day that their fans must pinch themselves in disbelief that not only have City collapsed but that we stalled on the grid. I cannot imagine any of the fan base felt confident when the greatest coach that club has had since Bob Paisley decided to call it quits, but then again we know Leicester City fans felt in 2015 that it was more likely that they’d be battling relegation than fighting for the title…strange things can happen.

I know I’ve dismissed the role of coach but I think there’s just no way I’d have been as dismissive of Liverpool if Klopp was there even with the squad that Salah, Jota and Van Dijk aside isn’t that impressive.

But still though, even with the HUGE drag factor of Arteta I did expect when the Rodri news dropped on 23rd September that as long as Arteta didn’t try to interfere we’d be champions in May. I think that sense of certainty dissipated a week or so later when I saw the team we put out against Southampton. It was clear to me that Arteta would interfere with almost capricious stupidity.

I was hoping I was wrong, but the Liverpool game, the Newcastle game (the away game not the league cup game I don’t care about nothing trophies) the Fulham game, the Everton game, The Brighton game. That’s 11 points that have been flushed down the shitter because of his hubris, his stubbornness and his incompetence.

I want him gone because to fail so spectacularly when we might never have a better chance to win the league again for a long time has to have consequences. Obviously he didn’t do it out of malice, but if you make a major mistake at work that costs the company millions it’s only fair that your job should be forfeit

So for me it’s less about who will take us forward and more about Justice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Fixed it for you :good:

---

Thanks mate, but I preferred the way it was before.

Also, I think naming names does help speedup ending our relationship with Arteta. Its the same reason I (and everyone else) knows Anceloti is leaving Madrid this summer despite having a contract till 2026, it because Alonso's name keeps coming up over and over again.

Also, look at it like a proper relationship, its always easier for you to breakup and move on when you are certain of who is waiting in the wings. Also if your partner had self-respect and started hearing rumours, they'd drop you like a bad habit.....or mend their ways if they are the really desperate type.

Anyway, the philanderer wins in both situations :)

Probably why Madrid has been so successful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

I have the same question.

What are his qualifications that determine that fact?
He must have a pretty comprehensive list of honours.

---

If Kompany can get the Bayern Munich job despite failing to understand that you can’t play the same kind of expansive football in the premier league that he did in the championship with the players available to him. It suggests to me that there’s no objective determination on what makes a good coach anyhow.

If the world was fair and reasonable, Arteta would be got rid of now and have as much chance of getting another managerial job as Nick Leeson had of getting another job in banking.

I don’t think it’s actually appreciated that this season has been an almost Barings Bank level fuck up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

But still though, even with the HUGE drag factor of Arteta.

---

Hang on.
So...we got 89 points last season, our second best PL total ever and only one fewer than The Invincibles.
And that was WITH Arteta being a "HUGE" drag factor?
Holy shit! We'd have won every game without him!


Behave yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Hang on.
So...we got 89 points last season, our second best PL total ever and only one fewer than The Invincibles.
And that was WITH Arteta being a "HUGE" drag factor?
Holy shit! We'd have won every game without him!


Behave yourself.

---

I don’t know about winning every game but we might even have won the title if he didn’t spend the first few games of that season dicking around with experimental lineups and tactics.

When Arteta keeps things simple, doesn’t as I say try to interfere things can go well. Last season was largely a case in the second half not only of using the set pieces as a tactic but not trying to complicate things with galaxy brained tactics.

Of course it didn’t help when in April a journalist asked him whether he no longer considered Havertz a midfielder and his ego couldn’t handle it. I think that this ended up with Havertz back at number 8 again and us drawing with Bayern and losing to Villa.

That’s why he’s a Drag factor my dear sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t know about winning every game but we might even have won the title if he didn’t spend the first few games of that season dicking around with experimental lineups and tactics.

---

We started last season fine in terms of results. It was probably Christmas where we buggered things up with those back to back defeats. But the response was fantastic and I can't really fault their efforts overall. If you think we got 89 points despite Arteta and with someone better we'd have got significantly more and won the title then you're crackers, frankly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

We started last season fine in terms of results. It was probably Christmas where we buggered things up with those back to back defeats. But the response was fantastic and I can't really fault their efforts overall. If you think we got 89 points despite Arteta and with someone better we'd have got significantly more and won the title then you're crackers, frankly.

---

We didn’t start last season fine at all, we ended up drawing home games to Fulham and Spurs because of Arteta’s tinkering. The football was also abject.

No not significantly more we only finished two points behind, but when you consider in years past that Liverpool broke 90 points twice and didn’t win the title, this we couldn’t have done any more bollocks rings hollow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

you're crackers, frankly.

---

:gp: