Oh well, I suppose, grudgingly, fair enough. Fucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
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Oh well, I suppose, grudgingly, fair enough. Fucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
The agenda is to keep the (ahem) news cycle going, whether that means daubing out the lowest common denominator in response to actual events or (increasingly) pulling creative from thin air when events can't keep pace with the demand for the tonnage of excrement required to fuel the modern media. This is why there is an unholy alliance between celebrities, politicians and other assorted whores, and the media. They all get a benefit from catching each others diseases. And if any of this genuinely reflects the public mood then we are finished as a species. I think people exist in two states, the normal, mainstream, commercial, brain dead everyday state, tempered from time to time with outbursts of humanity, civility and a reason for even being alive. The media always lives at the wrong end of that spectrum and its agenda is to appeal to the very worst in all of us and keep us in the sewer where consumption is an inevitable consequence.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Basically. Cunts who deserve to die.
No problem with your last comment. But an agenda to self advance is hardly a hidden one. I suppose the depressing thing is that most people aren't capable of drawing any distinction - or even think about the source of their knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I didn't actually say it was hidden. On the contrary, they laugh about it on shows like the Sunday Supplement. All these tossers in influential positions are so comfortable now, so convinced they are what people want and need. One day people will have a real think about it and discover the very last thing we need are these self publicising regressive types. But I know what you mean when you mention the public mood. I can settle on complacency rather than an emotional reason for allowing the media to exist as it does.
It's not unfeasible to think a German player in England would be subject to papers being more quick to criticise them against other players. Mertesacker has certainly had to come through it.
"Let's Blitz Fritz" and all that rubbish.
Which is why I said Martin Samuel is a fat oaf. That and many, many other reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
That's the insult. NQ assumes in most cases that nobody here can draw their own conclusions without being influenced by the media. It's patronising.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
If it wasn't for you lot, and NQ in particular, I'd have been successful in completely tuning out the media.
It's not an assumption, it's an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
You can't escape the media as they influence almost everyone around you. For example, you are forced to live in a world (or at least a part of it) that see's America as a progressive and liberal nation rather than a war driven corporation. I tuned them out for a while too but it left me wondering why almost everyone I met was delusional. At first I thought it was a bacteria or a germ that had invaded the planet from outer space and had rendered humanity mentally helpless. Then it dawned it was a lot more serious than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
It's an assumption. If you were paying attention, a few posters were underwhelmed with Ozil's performances way before the media started highlighting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Also, if the media was that influential, why are we able to reject certain messages but accept others? Shouldn't we be totally passive to what we're being bombarded with?
No we certainly shouldn't be, but most are. It's a simple trick. If you want something to be true you just repeat it via as many outlets and formats as possible. You get a politician or some other senior figurehead to dress up and stare gravely into the camera and the lie becomes official and therefore unquestionable. That's makes it a "roll eyes everybody knows that" anti-fact. Or if you want to suppress information you do the "roll eyes what a loon" or "us and them" routine so people are afraid to believe what's under their nose. The media is in fact a very powerful and very influential force in society. A vigorous cancer that sits at the heart of it. If the media as it is today just suddenly arrived out of the blue people would collapse in a hysterical heap before carting them all off to the funny farm or prison. But because it has been drip, drip, dripped over time like a poison people have come to accept it as a "normal" part of life. Very similar to government and they are closely linked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It's more complex than that. We're hit with advertising and branding every day and it's unavoidable. Considering the amount of beer adverts I've seen during the football, shouldn't I be a heavy beer drinker? I'm not a fan of beer and no matter how many ads i see, that's not going to change. People have filters to what they're willing to accept. If we were that passive and unable to decode certain messages, we'd probably see ridiculous shit like men buying bras and Tampax when they don't need it. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
As for politics and the media...a lot of people have lost faith in politics and there are splintered groups everywhere. You must have seen it.
Back to football and Arsenal...why is it that most people on here and Arsenal fans in general aren't buying into the top 4 trophy spin we've heard for years from Wenger and the board? Why are there so many varied opinions? It's complex and pretty arrogant to assume we've all been taken in but you're Neo in all this.
But I said most, not all. Advertising, I hate it. All of it. But advertisers spend their own time and money so I have no ideological or humanitarian problems with it. Advertising is a completely different thing.
And this - "a lot of people have lost faith in politics". Lost faith? My point exactly. Politics, politicians, democracy, representation. The aim is not to have faith or withdraw as the only alternative, the aim is to instruct and direct "representatives" and "servants" and have them execute. This is a classic example of the twist that reaches all the way through society. You see how propaganda works? Even when you are "rebelling" you are acknowledging the abdication of your own responsibilities and will. Of course it is complex, propaganda is a science that has developed over centuries. It's a vital component that has always empowered the few in dictating to the many. Its real aim is to have the victim impose limitations on himself, in thought as well as action. It is extremely effective in the west. Not so much the east because people there can usually see the bars. It's funny because North Korea is held up as the ultimate example of a propagandised state. In reality it's comedy hour compared to the slick and polished western version but the end result is of course the same.
Don't really understand the bit about Arsenal. I was talking about the shitty reporting and fake crisis generated around Ozil. Do the media spin the top four thing in our favour? I haven't noticed that. I think you are more likely to hear 5 years without a trophy, 6 years without a trophy, 7 years... Anyway, if you are asking why haven't the fans committed to not winning trophies the answer is pretty obvious. Fans want trophies, they want their team to win something on their behalf. Why would they buy into not winning. There's no propaganda involved in this. We moved stadium, funded it at the expense of the squad and now we're supposed to have enough cash to reverse the trend. But we'll see. I don't think anyone at Arsenal has been trying to sell the virtues of not winning, when did that happen? Wenger said 4th was like a trophy, apparently, but surely he was speaking about the achievement of hanging on under financial restrictions and reaping the financial benefits when we most needed revenue? I doubt he meant it in the sense that 4th is somehow superior to third or second or first. Is that what you think he meant?
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
:gp: throughout, but that bit in bold is especially brilliant.
I think there is a seperate debate to be had regarding politics, capitalism and media. I won't go into much detail on that. It goes deeper than following media trends and the ruling class have always imposed their will way before media propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
As for Arsenal, the fans are hit with PR and spin from both sides of the fence. But as an Arsenal follower that historically trusts the opinion of our players, coach and staff over terrible MOTD pundits and tabloid trash, how is it possible for my opinion to suddenly be influenced by sources I've always considered untrustworthy?
It's why I disagree wholeheartedly with Wenger's statement about our fans being brainwashed by the media. It's patronising. I follow Arsenal news sources on a everyday basis and form my opinion from there on. Shouldn't we all be just as subseptible to Arsenal's propaganda machine and 'brainwashing'? Yes, I mean the constant messages from Wenger about patience, 4th being like a trophy, not needing to spend crazy money to play great football, youth development....etc. Our club uses the same tools to communicate with its fans and there was a time we accepted that message during the transistion but now it's met with resistance. It has nothing to do with other media sources, it's just down to what we've seen over the years.
With Ozil, it didn't take this media frenzy to see he was under performing. I said ages ago the media would jump all over him if he doesn't pick up the slack and that's why I posted up the German fans story in the first place. Some posters had a problem with the criticism and I always said this is minor in comparison what we've seen in the past. Hence....
They'll report on the good stuff too. It's all down to Mesut.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...p-match-report
Quote:
Wenger admitted afterwards that Özil needed time to recover from the crushing disappointment of missing a highly tense, high-profile penalty against Bayern Munich in the first leg of Arsenal's Champions League bout. "I think it affected him mentally too much," Wenger said. "It was not only physical, it was mental. He had the feeling he let the team down at a very important moment of the game. That affected his performance very much. Psychologically sometimes the wound is like a physical one. You can talk and talk and talk but it takes time. You just have to leave it to time. I think he is over it. He has a good opportunity to show on Tuesday night how good he is."
Wenger will challenge him to bag more goals. He's on the money regarding his pace and technical skill. Has the potential to be a show stealer and that's what Wenger is looking to get out of him.Quote:
Wenger has challenged him to score more goals. In steering Santi Cazorla's pass into the far corner of Joel Robles' net Özil showed the kind of instincts his manager hopes to make more prominent. "I would like him to find the right balance between being a provider and finisher," Wenger said. "At the moment the balance is a bit detrimental to the finishing. His strong side is providing. But he is pacy – much quicker than people think – and with that technical quality and that pace, if he gets into the right areas and with the service we have, he can score goals. He wants to score more goals, I am convinced of that."
And yet, as the top headline in the Daily Zyklon B:
Premier League Power Rankings: Find out who is the best player in England right now in our top 10... and, no, you're not in Mesut!
This after the guy puts in a MOTM performance. Now don't tell me there isn't an agenda. Yaya Toure will be "in it" and he's been abject shit on his last few outings. However - he scored that boot swinging fluke and while the reality doesn't amuse these journo cunts, shit like that does. Ozil's goal was 100x better than Toure's because Ozil meant it and could actually repeat it. Journos always want the fantasy though.
And oh look - Gerrard is top. Really then, they just report the facts. There is no agenda.
Yep, I definitely think Arsene wants and believes Ozil can develop into Fabregas MKII, i.e. comfortable double figures for both assists and goals. Fabregas stats towards the end of his career with us were ridiculous, he was on like 20+ goals a season and 20+ assists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
IMHO Ozil has more upside in his game than Fabregas did to perfect the role Arsene has given him and is challenging him with. Ozil definitely has the potential to succeed in this role by both delivering high numbers for goals and assists.
You're looking for the negatives. That's one rag out of many. Arteta made that list but you failed to mention that. So is the agenda anti Ozil or Arsenal? Who gives a shit!Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Cesc was a different animal. He'd control the tempo and pace of a game like Pirlo and Xavi but could also bang in goals and assists.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I don't see Ozil developing into that Fabregas role. I see him more as a Pires. The way he floats all over the pitch and looking at his goal, I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger tries him out wide. But if he doesn't he will always find space in the wide areas.
Why the need for that addition to the end of the headline? That's the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Unfortunately bog roll like the Sun and the Daily Mail set the tone due to their inexplicable circulation. The broadsheets have to maintain the pretence of respectability while they push their own bullshit distortion of the world, so it can sometimes appear there is counterbalance. But it's all bullshit and all marketing angles.
It doesn't set the tone if most papers are saying Ozil had a good game. We can end this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
LOL - the silent edit.Quote:
Sun and the Daily Mail
Yeah true, I agree that Cesc did control the tempo of a game, that really isn't Ozil's style. I suppose the comparisons I was trying to make between the two were more in terms of the kind of numbers Arsene wants Ozil to deliver to the team and that they would be similar-ish to Cesc's contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Cesc was like Pirlo, Xavi, Scholes etc where as Ozil is more like Zidane, Pires etc players who dont really control the tempo of the game and dont run arounf making tackles but their passing, movement and exceptional awareness makes them stand out in moments rather than throughout the 90 minutes.
I hear you. I think Wenger will push Ozil to his limits and he'll be a even better if he trains hard and listens. We haven't seen anything yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Pires yes, don't agree with that regarding Zidane though. He could completely boss a game from a 10 yard patch on the pitch. Everything went to him and he opened up everything for the rest of the team. Amazing player. Better than Messi, better than Ronaldo, even better than that chav who is the best player in the world whose name I can't remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Zidane is my favourite player of all time so i agree with whatever you have to say about him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
He did run games but he wasnt like these new deep play makers who dictate the pace and set the tempo. He was more like a boss who could do whatever he wanted to.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiepI-LIcAAOevA.jpg
How on earth did they get this inside the ground?
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0d/0d705...c44cef237b.jpgQuote:
How on earth did they get this inside the ground?
How else?
:lol:
It didn't tale long for Wenger to try this. I'm not sure if he's physically capable of playing down the flanks because of how demanding it is. He pulled a hammy quickly which could just be a coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
From his official Facebook page:
dear friends,
now it's clear: during the #ucl match against #FCBayern I suffered a muscle injury in the second minute. I tried to give my best and played until the end of the first half. rest assured that I'll be back even stronger!
Seems like he's feeling the pressure.
:shrug: There is a slightly less provocative official version erected at the cock I mean clock end-at The Emirates, I guess Arsenal wants to extract the pink poundQuote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He's feeling the pressure. It's good to see the effort but it was a nothing game. I hope it's not too serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
So no Ozil and more importantly, no Ramsey for Spurs.
I see the decision not to invest in January paid off.
Relax man. Kallstrom has got this.
Özil has been injured for 7 ˝ weeks in his years at Schalke, Bremen & Madrid. Joins Arsenal - so far already out for 8 weeks (3 injuries).
:goodpost: Quality player, he's a late developer, very late that's why noone's heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars