:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Pretty much sums it up. We took a gamble on Wenger.. surely there are enough promising managers to at least look at!
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:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Pretty much sums it up. We took a gamble on Wenger.. surely there are enough promising managers to at least look at!
Fine, but there's no need for the hatred and venom you show towards him.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
The new stadium, the amazing football we saw (admittedly a while ago now) and the financial stability which has secured our future are all down to him.
He has his flaws and it's looking increasingly unlikely we'll win trophies under him again but he's the reason our expectations are so high and the reason we have any chance of competing in the modern game.
I think I have reduced my 'hate speech' towards him considerably (And I'm wrong whenever I do cross the line). I'm frankly even tired of abusing him.. I just want him gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As for 'he being the reason for us having high expectations', I dont agree with that. From the time I had started following Arsenal (early nineties), I could recall always thinking that we always stood a chance at winning something. I knew that the team performed to the best of its abilities and we more than likely did our best to have a good football team. The last 7-8 years, I havent felt that unfortunately. I do not think we as a football club have done its most at being the best. And please, do not mistaken this for just transfers, we have IMO not done the best with the players, tactics, substitutions etc.. If I add transfer dealings into the mix, then it is game, set and match tbh!
Personally I want to see how this season pans out. It is looking wearyingly predictable but there's a way to go yet, we're still in the FA Cup and good results in our horrible run (unlikely, I know) and we'll be right in the mix. This thread wouldn't even exist had we won on Saturday, had we done so we'd be a point off the top. OK, we lost, but that one result shouldn't be the difference between wanting him sacked or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Another collapse and another season without silverware and scraping into 4th place, having shown so much promise, and I won't be defending him.
Edit: I haven't voted in this poll btw.
I think the reason this thread exists and people want him gone is attributed to the manner in which we lost.
Had the team battled hard and fought for 90 mins but come undone and we'd lost I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.
It's the fact that the team, after having 2 days off it should be noted, came to the game with nothing about them. No fight, no desire, no strength, seemingly like they had no reason to win.
So it's sort of understandable that this question has come about.
Wenger got the team selection wrong - again. He didn't motivate his players it would seem - again. He didn't react to anything happening on the pitch and made his changes too late at 70 odd mins - again.
I hate to say it, but in the last few weeks it looks like the collapse is on - again.
Out of all comps by the end of March with a fight for 4th place - again.
We've been there, done that just once too often. It looked like things were going to be different this year, after signing Ozil and riding the top slot for months the expectation was high and fans belief was lifted only for it to seemingly look like it's all going to come crashing down - again.
Add to that the January transfer window came round and when we needed to strengthen our injured and depleted squad, we signed a crocked 31 year old who is pretty much a nobody in recent years. We just didn't do what was necessary -again.
I just don't think I or most other fans can take this Groundhog Day merry go round anymore.
There comes a point where you have to get off the ride, or you're just gonna end up being sick.
I will openly admit to not wanting to see him fired and even wanting him to continue, but I am increasingly losing objective ground on which to argue upon, which is frustrating to say the least. Wenger needs to be careful about his actions more so than ever as he has lost an enormous amount of support.
I've said before that I can't shake the feeling that Wenger just doesn't have the appetite to operate as a manager in the perversion of a modern game we are presented with....but he is too far ingrained into the club and football to walk away from it. That said I'm sure we would all like to see him go through the front door and not the back one should we part company. It will leave a bitter taste if his departure is acrimonious and steeped in indignation.
My hope is that as we strengthen as a business and club his taste for truly competing is augmented but he is quickly running out of rope and half the fans in truth lost patience some time ago....they only kept it schtum so as to not look churlish whilst we were doing well for so long. I don't think it is necessary to dismiss all discontent as 'knee jerk', because in truth many have felt that way for a long while. Neither does the discontent not being 'knee jerk' alone, mean it is objective or valid, but there is definitely many reasons to argue this is the end of the line....even if I myself don't want it to be.
I also come back to Wenger's quote in the summer about being well placed to truly compete within the next '2-3 years'. At the time I was quite concerned to hear such a thing and it intermittently haunts me. I do think the flogging of tomorrow needs to cease or at least ostensibly managed better.
One thing I do however have deep sympathy with Wenger for is the Suarez case. He's not faultless but Henry's revelations are unbelievable and he and his club should absolutely be taken to the cleaners over it. They categorically denied there being such a clause in the summer, made it look like the bitey racist was dizzy/lying, which was a cheap and easy move to make and actually it turns out they out-rightly flipped the bird sign to the clause all together...AND THEY'VE GOT AWAY WITH IT.
Absolutely unbe-fuhkin-lievable.
Pretty much sums it up for me. I remember when we had moved to the Emirates, we played a game against West Spam and we battered their goal for 89 minutes but couldnt score. They scored from a fluke chance of theirs and we lost... I was pissed at the result but not at the players.. they tried, they gave a fuck but shit happens. Chelsea had 35 odd shots against Spammers but they drew 0-0. Their players tried... can we say the same about this Arsenal team or recent years Arsenal teams? Hell no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Most games, they come only ready to play for 45 minutes. If the manager who is being paid 7 million quid a year, cannot motivate his players, then its time for him to say goodbye! I really really hope that we dont give him a new contract.. it would be insanity to see him do the same shit AGAIN!
What people seem not to see. is that the players themselves are demotivated. Most of them like Cazorla, Pods, Merts, Ozil, have played for other managers in winning teams, for club and country. They know what works. Unlike, Wilshire, Gibbs who have never known another manager. The pros know that this shit style of ours does NOT work against the best teams. It just doesnt. I am sure some have made a few tentative suggestions but been shot down and told, this is how we play. So in that case the seasoned ones will say. Fuck it, Ill play for the salary then. Hence the insipid performances. Wenger wont change, the results wont change. The best players will leave and we will give Wenger a new contract to start again.
We have seen this before time and time again, " I love Wenger, hes a great man, a great manager, but I had to leave to win things". They all say this but people still make up shit to prove otherwise...He had no money, He was waiting to pay off the debt (not even half paid btw). The other clubs refused to sell him the players he needed, He was unlucky with injuries, The axis of evil empires are doing their darndest to stop him winning.
All nonsense and in the main you people are suffering from battered wife syndrome. " I cant leave him, he really loves me, hes so loving when hes sober, Hes under lots of pressure, Its really my fault, If he leaves me, who else will love me, the next guy could be even worse".
Nonsense?
So the stadium move has in no way affected our dealings in the transfer market?
Obviously the thing about an 'axis of evil' is nonsense, there's no 'conspiracy', but if you mean the billionaire-fuelled clubs then are you seriously suggesting their distortion and inflation of the transfer market and ability to build huge squads which make them immune to injuries are not a big factor in our failure to win trophies?
It's possible that another manager would come in and do better but you're fooling yourself if you think someone else will come in and we'll sweep all before us. Whoever our manager is the billionaires will still be there and those clubs are incredibly difficult to compete with.
FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.
Anything less and you'd have to call it a failure after the start we had.
In the era of the billionaire clubs haven't Wigan and Swansea win cups, or in their case it's just flukes. Wenger has had 9x4 opportunities to win a fluke trophy and flunked. The only nonsense is the alternative reality you and the Wengerites have created for yourselves. He isn't going to win anything in the next 15 years that is a certainty. Heck we can't even win the Emirates cup anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Yes. Wigan won a cup and then went down. :partytime:
I've said numerous times that our failure to win any trophies at all is damning. But there's no doubt the billionaire-fuelled juggernauts make it harder than it used to be.
Of course there will be exceptions but if you look at who won those 9x4 trophies you won't fine too many.
they went down, what does that prove or how is it even relevant. Swansea are struggling. its obvious that the reason they struggle is playing in Europe. Sunderland will be in the Europa next season, they may go down this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
All it proves is that you dont need money to win a cup. You can however be lucky. Wengers teams are neither good enough or lucky enough. Another 10 years from now, it will not have changed. IMO
they went down, what does that prove or how is it even relevant. Swansea are struggling. its obvious that the reason they struggle is playing in Europe. Sunderland will be in the Europa next season, they may go down this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
All it proves is that you dont need money to win a cup. You can however be lucky. Wengers teams are neither good enough or lucky enough. Another 10 years from now, it will not have changed. IMO
Hasn't been too bad this year.
We can certainly build on these foundations.
Pissed off we didn't get a striker in January, but then again, it's pointless wasting 20mil + on someone who isn't what you really wanted.
Seems obvious we went all out for Suarez, and got fucked over, but that's footy for you, and I don't blame Wenger for holding onto the cash if he couldn't get the man he wanted.
I've come to the conclusion that the same frustrations will always prevelent with AW, as he's a stubborn old cunt. But he's our stubborn old cunt, and I still think he's one of the best managers out there, and until someone can come up with a better choice of coach, who isn't reliant on mega money to put himself on "the best" list, we'd be stupid to get rid.
Attachment 98
It's official. We've gone off the rails.
That's about the size of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
Although I would also say finishing 4th and winning the FA cup was a successful season but finishing any lower than that is rather split.
I'd be delighted with a cup win and 3rd. 4th would be a little disappointing because it means Liverpool would be above us. At least if we're 3rd we have the consolation prize of being the best of the rest, presuming the moneybags finish top 2.
I agree if we achieve both of these, i would be more than happy for AW to sign a new contractQuote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
What's the odds on Wenger fielding a very weak team for the FA Cup but full strength in the Champions League? Was just reading Le Grove and he suggested this is what Wenger might do when looking into his recent press comments.
Finishing 4th would mean another summer of waiting until the end to sign players and rushing about to complete deals due to the qualifier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
No thanks.
Well all those years ago we were told that summer 2014 would be the time we would start competing again. We're pretty close to that now. The Ozil signing made sure we cemented top 4 and to the club's surprise, we began competing a year sooner than planned. Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
And if he decides to leave then he's leaving us in a pretty good place. Mertesacker, Rosicky and judging from reports today, Ramsey too, have all penned new deals. We have a solid defensive unit, an abundance of quality midfielders. We have a great stadium + training facilities. Wenger said a few years ago that when he would leave Arsenal he would leave it in a brilliant position for the new manager.
If he leaves, I think it's fair to say he's done that. He has left his legacy.
I'd be very surprised if we play a side much different to what we have seen in the FA Cup already, against Premier League teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yeah I agree with that. He's left the squad in a pretty healthy state, it needs investment, but not major investment, certain areas of the squad are in pretty good shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
I personally want Arsene to step down now, I don't believe he has it in him to move us up a gear. I believe he's too "wedded" in his principles and not flexible enough or pragmatic enough to move us forward.
We need someone progressive, someone who is willing to take a chance and invest in the squad in the right areas, somebody who has new and inventive ideas.
Thanks Arsene, but your time is done, let someone else have a crack.
Edited to add: I think the club and to a lesser degree Arsene have been selling us the dream/future for far too long. I accept that we may have had financial restrictions placed on us post stadium move and accept we are competiting with a couple of clubs with unlimited budgets, but I won't accept the flawed player recruitment policy our club operates. IMO, Wenger doesn't want to pay over the odds period, he has his valuations and that's that. If anything this summers transfer market will be more difficult than any of the recent years as it's World Cup year, Prices inflate etc.
with wenger delaying the signing of his contract later than ever, not winning anything could mean he calls it a day with a fantastic set-up for the next man to build on.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
klopp could be a realistic option this summer. he might be at the realisation that he's done all he can with dortmund who now stand no chance against Bayern in the league and will always lose their best players to them. CL success only comes round once in a while. he's done wonders at that club on a small budget, it's a similar type of league, he's young and hungry, can develop players, attract stars and plays great football. none of the other teams in the prem would want him as they're all set with managers. he signed a new contract last year until 2018 but we all know they can be broken quite easily.
Seeing Man Utd falter is also good for us because Gazidis will not pick someone incompetent for the job. He'll go for a big name knowing there's too much at stake.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
And having a manager that is tactically naive can also be seen as a bonus. When the new manager comes in he can instantly improve us tactically which will hopefully get 10-15% more out of the players and the system. Perhaps we won't play the same bloody formation every stadium we go to.
I wanted Wenger gone at the beginning of the season but I just don't know anymore. We started off so well and if we tweak one or two things, there's no reason why we can't challenge next season with this lunatic in charge. Changing managers could work out well or it could be a disaster. Sometimes you find that when you give up, you do it a time when you were just about to succeed.
This season has been such a head fuck and I seriously don't know whether I want him to stay or go.
""Maybe that explains Wenger's stubbornness and lack of transfer activity in the January window? Doesn't want to splash and pay over the odds when he knows he has a mammoth transfer pot in the summer? Who knows.""Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
Yes why go all out to win the league title this season when we are so close,when we can have a real go next year.Yawn.
We've played our best (or near enough) 11 in the cup this season so i dont think he'll send out some rookies now that we're a couple of games away from the final.
Im confident i have to say, i think Everton will be a tough team but being at home will be a factor, as well as the added confidence of beating Liverpool and Spuds.
Oh shut up you tit. I was offering both sides of an argument. You fail to offer one. #wankerQuote:
Originally Posted by saintnickle
:haha:
Your offering an excuse for wenger not spending in the january window and you call me a tit???BellendQuote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
IMO if you want a manager that doesn't spend huge amounts and will get you 4th place, Wenger is your man. If you want a manager who wins and who's primary goal is to win and who will do what it takes to do so, he's not.
Kinda depends which side of the fence you're on, personally I don't get much pleasure from 4th place and CL qualification simply because IMO it's a bit of a farce to have 4 teams from one country in Europe's premier competition and because we don't even have an outside chance of success due to the mentality manager, so I'd take a chance and try something else.
Yes because it's called being reasonable based on the start we have had this season you two bob cunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by saintnickle
[QUOTE=She Wore A Red Ribbon;376279]FA cup and 3rd would be a successful season.
I would settle for that right now. :dancingman:
I have noticed that since people have calmed down since the weekend, the poll is levelling out.
I was a bit harsh on Wenger over the weekend, but sometimes his team selection wears me down!
I for one would not like to see Wenger leave under a dark cloud. If we manage third and win the FA Cup, he could leave with his head held high. Everyone's a winner! :d
Very high to certain. Doubt it's only Wenger who would prioritise that way. Ask any of the players which game they'd rather play in. Maybe Jenks would say the FA Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Terrible post. Too positive. Too dependent on the facts. All that shit is nothing compared to the Stoke result. Wenger out.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Red Ribbon
Civil war in Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Wenger out!
Depends how much you value success I guess, putting your best team out in a tie that's all but gone in a competition you haven't a hope of winning could hardly be called a wise move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Better to ask players if they would rather play and win the FA Cup game and then play the CL game and lose or not play and potentially lose the FA Cup game and then play and lose in the CL.
We're not gonna go through against Bayern and even if by some miracle Moses showed up parted their defence 3 times and earned us a 3 goal win, we still wouldn't win the competition, as there's several better sides still in it.
The FA Cup still has one better side in it, however in a one off game in a neutral venue I guess it's possible we could upset the odds (I doubt it very much looking at our big match mentality but hey) however unlikely.
We could get an unbiased ref. Bayern could have Robben sent off for all his diving and antics. Much could happen. It's way past time something went our way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
As for the FA Cup - it's utterly worthless. Not even a shadow of the competition it used to be. It'd be a 5 minute wonder if we won it,
Even with that in mind, I can see us failing to convert, we've got a proven track record unfortunately, last 16 is our limit nowadays. The CL is a step too far for us, we're not good enough to win it, nor do we play the type of game where we could get "lucky".Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I disagree, I think you've bought into the hype here, every team that wins the FA Cup looks elated to have won it, it's still a great competition, it's just you've forgotten as it's a long time since we've been serious contenders.