Every team in England is this far behind them. Most are further behind than us.
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Every team in England is this far behind them. Most are further behind than us.
Thing is we have been that far behind for a decade a lot of the other top teams haven't, this club doesn't strive to be the best, it's strives to be 2nd best and that's why we are where we are and regularly watch the team being dismantled by superior opposition.
We should be much closer to Barcelona than we are, we we're not promised that we built the stadium to challenge the best teams in Europe and yet 10 years down the line we're further away than we were then and couldn'tbe further away to be honest.
Under the current regime we're never going to be a match for Barcelona, it's a gimme that every top team we face will knock us out of the CL.
When Barcelona got stuffed in the CL a few years back, they were embarrassed and weren't willing to accept being 2nd best, look at them now they've made changes and look one of the best again, top clubs don't take a trashing and stand still they put measures in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
This club isn't even midly embarrassed whenever the team gets thrashed, it's almost nornal for it to happen now.
As have stated there is no reason we should expect to beat Barcelona, but there is justification in being disappointed when we compete for so long and our usual failings result in our downfall. It's as simple as that.
If we beat United on Sunday it will ameliorate this, but even against a poor United side there is cause for skepticism when in our last eight games, six of which have been at home we have failed to score in five of them.
That's a big problem
Which leaves me asking the question, 'what happened to the world class stadium for a world class team'?Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
The only thing that stadium has delivered is world class profiteering.
Let's hope Wenger's job is on the line this season. He's been saying he'd have been sacked if he didn't win the FA Cup. We can only hope he's not talking BS and they're looking at the league closely this year. If he messes it up he has to go.
You want the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
They want....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25_jgiY51I
Guess who's guaranteed to get what they want?
TBH, I think if we don't win the league this season then his position would become untenable, the backlash from a large majority of the fan base would be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I dread to even think of the consequences if we were pipped to the title by those boys down the road...Wenger would be a "dead man" walking and no amount of spin would wash.
Alves as to why he swore Özil off.
"He told me to remember what happened in the 2014 World Cup semi-final before speaking"
:lol:
They'd make a big signing and the fans would be happy with that. Wenger would survive. To save his arse, suddenly there would be quality out there and we'd find it. Or they could try another Suarez stall tactic, pretend they were going to sign somebody huge and leave it to the last day of the window and then blame somebody else for the pretend deal falling through. Lots of ways they could stall and tease out more time for their bagman.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Two out of three is not bad at all. With the profits rolling in seemingly regardless, why invest? What's the point? The stadium is full, the merchandise is selling itself, the big deals are coming in. All that achieved with the team we have. If the profits slip then maybe resort to investment, but until then why would they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
Even if we cock the league up, which lets face wouldn't be a surprise to anyone, he'll stick around. Though given it could be Leicester or Spurs we lose out to, maybe the fan backlash would be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But unless we drop out of the top 4 he's pretty cushy. If we had football men at the top it would be a different story.
So we are one of the best also-rans? Barca had millions on the pitch, we have it in the bank. That's the difference. The fans did everything asked of them when the promises were being dished out. Coughed up 100% more cash, turned up, subscribed, literally bought the fucking T-shirt. So where are the executives who were dishing out the promises? What have they delivered?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I don't think anyone will fall for it this summer. The Ozil and Sanchez discontent stories will rumble on this summer if we fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It is part of the difference but sides like City have been spunking millions on the pitch and they're nowhere near the level of Barca either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I'm not going to get worked up we lost to Barca - they're on a different planet from almost everyone.
Let's start competing domestically first, 2 years ago we started buying players which should enable us to do so, it's yielded some results. The title's there for the taking now, let's see how we get on there. Fail there and you and I will be on (more or less) the same page.
I think it's all very much wishful thinking. The internet v stadium crowd are two completely different animals in terms of how they react to the teams performances and thus the managers future.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Without a doubt he will be here next season if he decides to see out his contract.
Generally I think that's right but judging by the last handful of games I've been to, the match going crowd and internet fans aren't really that far out of sync, all the moaning and bitching I hear in stadium is stuff you can read online. Fans are expectant now and in fairness we've been very patient and had to put up with a lot of repeated mistakes and failed promises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Hell, looking at Arsenal Fan TV these days the stadium crowd/online fan have merged into 1 anyway.
Galvanising that into a larger movement is something entirely different. People moan all the time at matches, no matter what the status but I can't see the crowd making a concerted effort to push for Wenger to leave. And quite honestly, even if they did, I don't think the board would listen. They've made it pretty clear how far they are willing to go with the paying punter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
If Wenger isn't talking nonsense about his job being under threat a couple of seasons back, we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYOKj1pOM2s&feature=youtu.be
old vid but relevant
Thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye :wave:
Nor am I getting worked up over one game, I'm pissed at the net result of 10 years wasted that was supposed to see us at least progress from where we were at Highbury. On the pitch I mean. But we've slowly slipped backwards, year on year and now we have a team that can't string a pass or get a shot within a mile of the goal. And it;s not just the bad patch this season. Our football has been regressing for years. I'm lamenting the fact that we could actually be challenging that Barca team if the manager had got his act together (after all this time). But he didn't and he won't. 3 more signings over the last 3 years and we'd be set. That's not too much to ask from a collection of individuals who have skinned the fan base to the bone. The last summer transfer window was the end. It showed the real intent of the club. And it's not just Wenger. We'll have to see out this board as well before anything happens at this club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Nonsense I'd say. We know he lies all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He could be but when has he ever spoken like that and not been so bullish about his job security or being proud of his record? Also the timing seems odd because he's said this when his job isn't really under much scrutiny. I could understand if he said something like this when Mourinho was poking away and saying he is under no pressure but this just comes out of the blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
The whole scenario is a big con. Its pretty easy for any person to see. The owner of the club does not give a toss about results on the pitch. The board is that in name only. Not 1 person apart from Kroenke himself can say a word to Wenger. Wenger literally owns the club. It is his to do with as he pleases. Falling into the hands of the American is the worst thing that could happen to us given who the manager is. In another world with a self driven relentless title chasing individual at the helm it would be perfect. But Wenger only pretends to compete, once he sees things are tough he reaches into his box of excuses. If anybody needs to leave it is Kroenke. How do we do that?. A stadium boycott by legions of long term fans is the only solution and that can only happen if Spurs win the league. Maybe, maybe then, we will see enough people so disgusted that they stop going. Even if you are a season ticket holder, stop going. With acres of gaps in the crowd, the sponsors will be the first to start asking the awkward questions.
Whether we like it or not, there is only one shareholder who is actually interested in us being a successful club again by buying quality and injecting the funds needed to do so and that is Usmanov.
I doubt he would be taking a £3m payment from the club each year for doing fuck all either!
Kronke is a complete and utter fraudster. People have said they don't want the Russian oligarch gangster types running things but the truth is we have it even worse with the US/English old boy gangsters instead who are only interested in sponging and siphoning as much cash from us as possible.
I don't want either of them
What other choice do we have?
Arabs?
We as a club just don't operate in any other world anymore - it's a billionaire owner or nothing.
You dont really have much choice and you already have 1 of them anyways, but only 1 of them is actually interested in the thing that you and I are interested in. Winning......Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm
Sheesh! All of a sudden I feel like someone campaigning for that muppet Donald Trump........
With the other guy you are gonna win so much you will get tired of winning.
Usmanov is a fan of Wenger too, so it looks like a win for everyone.
Kronke is a problem and I don't like the fact that he's picking up £3m a year for nothing but he's not the main problem. The ownership talk is a distraction. The real issue here is Wenger. It's not Silent Stan, Gazidis, oil baron clubs... the focus has to be firmly on him. I've always believed Wenger has been in cahoots with the Board way before Stan and Ivan arrived. For years he's been able to keep the focus off his own shortcomings as a manager and have everyone focused on the money. Fans were blaming the old board for years and then it shifted on to Ivan and Stan because Wenger kept talking about the financial state of other clubs and talking about not 'bankrupting' Arsenal. Forever talking in code and riddles about our financial state, creating this air of mystery that had us all guessing about what was going on.
We'd sell star players and buy basic beans. PHW and Ivan would continuously say the money was there for him to spend but he'd never strengthen the squad in the way we needed. It would always send the fans up in arms but the Board would be in question instead of Wenger. I've always maintained the money was there but Wenger was being cheap and the last few seasons have proven that. Not crazy money but enough to replace star talent for star talent. We didn't gave to downgrade. When Ivan announced the new sponsorship deals and clearly spelled out the sort of player we could afford along with the wages, the excuses from Wenger had to stop and the spotlight went firmly on him. That's why he's losing fan support so quickly. He's always hid behind the money excuse. You can go back to the Highbury days to here that when he talks of our small stadium capacity and other teams having better sponsorship deals. It's been a convenient crutch. He can't depend on that anymore since the funds are now being delivered. Now it's his turn to deliver because we're sitting comfy cosy financially.
Whoever owns the club will probably be a dirt bag. That can't be helped. They'll want the club to be profitable and stable and that's understandable from a business sense. I don't think we'll find an owner that just loves the club and wants to plough and endless stream of money in to make us successful. If that were to happen we'd have to question whether that's buying success but that's another debate. Right now the main issue is Arsene Wenger. I really don't get how he can be comfortable with his record. Why he isn't pushing the boat out for more. Why he never leaned on the Board for more money or bringing in certain players that would strengthen us. That's all on him.
Forget the owners. If you rent a property that's a complete and utter shithole, whose fault is it? Why are you happy living in a shithole and not taking proper care of the place? Even if you have a complete and utter shite of a landlord that's cheap and reluctant to spend on the place you make a nuisance of yourself and demand they fulfill their obligation and duty. You leave if the situation is that bad. Wouldn't you be embarrassed to show your friends and relatives how you're living? That's how I feel about Wenger and this club. The whole Board/Manager debate. Where Wenger's pride? His record in Europe is woeful and going so long without silverware must have stung the ego but he kept making excuses for himself and doing very little to address our problems. We now have the money but we're hearing the same excuses we heard 10 years ago about players not being available and so and so being good enough when they are clearly not. It's incredible. He has to be the first one to go.
There's also this guy who is apparently, if you believe the journos, very serious. As far as I'm aware there are no reports of him murdering, pillaging or raping anyone so whether he'd get past the football authorities is another matter.
Quote:
Africa's richest businessman says he is planning a bid to buy Arsenal.
Nigerian billionaire Aliko Dangote believes the building of an oil refinery in his homeland will give him the finance to secure a takeover.
The 58-year-old, who has an estimated wealth of £11.5bn, says he has supported the Gunners since the 1980s.
"When we get this refinery on track, I will have enough time and enough resources to pay what they are asking for," he told BBC Hausa.
American Stan Kroenke is Arsenal's majority shareholder, owning 67.02% of the club's parent company Arsenal Holdings plc.
Russian-Uzbek Alisher Usmanov owns 30.04% with the remainder of the 62,217 shares held by minority shareholders including former players and the Arsenal Supporters' Trust, who own three.
Dangote is ranked 67th on the Forbes rich list.
He had previously been interested in purchasing the 15.9% stake sold to Kroenke for £123m by Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith in April 2011 only to pull out.
"There were a couple of us who were rushing to buy, and we thought with the prices then, the people who were interested in selling were trying to go for a kill," Dangote added.
"We backtracked, because we were very busy doing other things, especially our industrialisation."
Dangote believes Arsenal require a different ownership in order to be more successful on the pitch.
He added: "They are doing well, but they need another strategic direction. They need more direction than the current situation, where they just develop players and sell them."
You aren't even on the same chapter - I doubt you're even reading the same book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Would winning the title this season vindicate Wenger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
It would be fine. If he stepped down immediately afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The game has moved on. Next season. United, City Chelsea, Pool, Spurs will all have new young managers. We will still be stuck with Wenger, Clueless and ambitionless, top 4 is a trophy Wenger. Ranieri at Leicester will be the exception but who can deny he deserves a 2nd season.
Ideal scenario if handled properly. Wenger bows out on a high, the story goes into the history book as Arsenal legend riding out the doper storm in football, conquering the financial crash, elevating the club to a new level in a new stadium, and coming through to triumph. Even though that would be less than half the story, but I'm sure we could all live with it. But he'd have to go and go completely. Move him upstairs so he could continue to scupper the transfers windows and drive from the back seat and all bets would be off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
On the other hand, if we don't win it he'd better pray the gypos come through for him again because there would be no explaining away a Leicester or spud title win. He'd be totally exposed and shot to hell if that happens.
As the old proverb goes, never judge a book until the end of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Except it all depends on what angle you look at Wenger's record from. As a fan you shake your head and imagine what might have been with a bit more ambition. As one of the leeches who slithered off with half a billion between them or the incoming vampire you can only grin in admiration. This guy is gooooooooood! He's in a class of his own for delivering what really matters - cash.
We're on the same page with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Really? You think the fan base would be satisfied with the season if we lose the title to Leicester or dare I say it the Spuds? Come on, he'd have no excuses, the faith in him would be at an all time low, if he can't win it against that lot he'll never win it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Sure the owners are and will continue to back him because he makes them a tidy profit but I really don't think the fan base would happily sit back and lap up his excuses if the above happened.
:gp: :gp: :gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
100% with you on this PnG, excellent post.
That's not what I said. What I'm pointing out is that there is a big difference between being unsatisfied and galvanising that into a group action, all focused on one outcome. I don't see that happening in the stadium, enmasse, at all. Especially on a regular basis. It's wishful thinking to believe otherwise. Either Wenger will decide to hang up his hat or he'll continue as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie