Summer transfer joy and happiness

Long as Ramsey and Xhaka are on this team, they will be shoe horned into this lineup regardless of form.

I won't get excited bout our fortunes till those 2 are playing elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

I thought Emery had plans of playing a 4-3-3 with Ozil going wide and three CM's in the middle. Maybe Xhaka, Ramsey and Torreira as the trio. But it looks like he's playing Ozil as a 10. I have no idea how that will work. Even with Torrira as DM, I think we'll be left badly exposed with Unai doesn't tell Ramsey to cut out the roaming forward and focus on distribution and pressing in the middle. Same goes for Ozil as a 10. He has to contribute more on both defence and attack. The guy has the feet and ball control to unlock a defence with his dribbling and wish he'd take more risks in possession and not play the percentages.

If Unai can't coach some discipline into these guys and get them to be more productive, he has to drop them. If he falls into the same trap as Wenger, we'll be in trouble. I don't want to see Ozil or Ramsey shifted on to the wing because they weaken our midfield only to discover they weaken our wing play as well. Same trap Wenger would fall into with certain players and I potentially see that happening if Emery isn't brave enough to drop unperforming players. I also think we have to be careful not to compound the problem by dumping more clay onto an already messy pile by dipping into the transfer market to buy players to compliment underperforming players with obvious weaknesses. Wenger made that mistake with Giroud when we bought Ozil. They were incompatible but Giroud was undroppable and then we bought another player that was undroppable. It could have worked if Ozil was more of a goal threat and made runs into the box. Giroud would have been great with the link up play. But on the other hand, Ozil needs a player that is faster and more of goal threat than Giroud.

Either way, a lot to look forwards to this season and we'll see how Emery addresses these the problems.

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Last night Emery tried Ozil wide so I don't think the positions are set in stone yet. Ramsey was supposed to be the most advanced CM but he injured himself before the game. :rolleyes:

The part in bold is important and without a doubt Ozil weakened our wing play last night. He plays the safe, obvious passes too often. He needs to be more proactive and take a few risks in the final third.

Ozil wide is fine if it is balanced out by a very different player on the other side, otherwise I can't abide it. His ability to swing a ball in and cross from wide positions is probably his most underrated attribute to my mind, unless you take the view that his movement is still criminally under appreciated or acknowledged.

Any one else struggling to see what Mhiki adds to the team? The occasional glimpse of quality but then goes very quiet for big chunks of the game. Can't seem him getting too many goals either. Iwobi very similar.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Last night Emery tried Ozil wide so I don't think the positions are set in stone yet. Ramsey was supposed to be the most advanced CM but he injured himself before the game. :rolleyes:

The part in bold is important and without a doubt Ozil weakened our wing play last night. He plays the safe, obvious passes too often. He needs to be more proactive and take a few risks in the final third.

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We’ll see how this Ramsey situation plays out. Either it’s a genuine injury or he’s about to be sold. If it really is an injury we really have to reconsider a new contract.

I didn’t see the game but not hard to imagine. I’ve seen how Ozil played on the wing for Germany and he’s done it for us on a few occasions and hasn’t looked great. To be fair, whenever we take a central player to play wide, they always look out of sorts. Plenty of examples to go by. Iwobi and Wilshere spring to mind. We’ll lose out on creativity and consistency if we try to play someone isn’t a natural born winger.

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

Any one else struggling to see what Mhiki adds to the team? The occasional glimpse of quality but then goes very quiet for big chunks of the game. Can't seem him getting too many goals either. Iwobi very similar.

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An alternate option to Özil, mostly (and experience of playing with Aubameyang).

My biggest issue with him is that I don't think he and Özil should play at the same time, because they do the much the same job - if you already have Özil on the pitch, in a more prominent area, then Mkhi becomes kind of redundant, and ends up not really doing much at all. I suspect we'd get a lot more out of him, if he was being rotated with Özil rather than playing alongside him.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Ozil wide is fine if it is balanced out by a very different player on the other side, otherwise I can't abide it. His ability to swing a ball in and cross from wide positions is probably his most underrated attribute to my mind, unless you take the view that his movement is still criminally under appreciated or acknowledged.

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We missed a trick when we had Giroud. We maybe should have been playing Ozil wide left to swing in crosses to Giroud.

As for Ozil’s movement off the ball and ability to find space, It’s not something I think we should go crazy for. What purpose does it serve if it doesn’t really aide our attack? What I love about Cesc and Rosicky is that they’d find space and demand the ball when open.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

An alternate option to Özil, mostly (and experience of playing with Aubameyang).

My biggest issue with him is that I don't think he and Özil should play at the same time, because they do the much the same job - if you already have Özil on the pitch, in a more prominent area, then Mkhi becomes kind of redundant, and ends up not really doing much at all. I suspect we'd get a lot more out of him, if he was being rotated with Özil rather than playing alongside him.

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MK definitely looks like another player that’s a central player. At this rate, we might as well play a 4-2-2-2 or diamond if we’re trying to keep all the main players on the pitch. Emery will have to cut a couple of big names for this to work.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Ozil wide is fine if it is balanced out by a very different player on the other side, otherwise I can't abide it. His ability to swing a ball in and cross from wide positions is probably his most underrated attribute to my mind, unless you take the view that his movement is still criminally under appreciated or acknowledged.

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At the very least, I think he has all the tools to do the job. I mean, if you didn't know you were talking about Mesut Özil, and someone just listed out a lot of his best attributes... smart movement... great close control and dribbling ability... ability to swing in laser-guided crosses from wide positions... gets a lot of assists from cut-backs... then you might be forgiven for thinking that you were hearing about the tricky winger we all want?

It's not even unprecedented for him - he's played both wings for Germany many times, and he's played both wings for Madrid. Even when he plays as a no.10, he'll spend much of the game drifting wide. (I also think there's a more of a goal-threat in him than he likes to show.)

Granted, he'd have a bit of learning to do on the defensive side, but I think he's going to have to do that wherever he plays across the attack, if we're implementing a high-press?

Really not sure what the barrier is for him here? I can only assume it's a mental block or some kind of reluctance to give it a proper try?

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

MK definitely looks like another player that’s a central player. At this rate, we might as well play a 4-2-2-2 or diamond if we’re trying to keep all the main players on the pitch. Emery will have to cut a couple of big names for this to work.

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I love how M's name gets shorter every time it's written!

Funny you should say that [about the 4-2-2-2]... I was just thinking that that's how most of these shapes / formations will probably end up in real-time when we're in possession. Most likely we'll end up Özil either coming more central to play through balls (or getting down the channels for cut-backs), with Auba hitting the near post, Laca ghosting in behind to the back post (hopefully unnoticed) and Ramsey following in as a delayed runner to give us a 3-pronged goal-threat. Any real width will be provided by the fullback on whatever side the play is on.

I've always thought that shape was more about how we regroup when we're defending anyway, and where our players should be starting attacks from - beyond that there's not much predicting how it will unfold, as wide players might come central, central players might go wide, advanced players might drop back (e.g. for hold-up play), deeper players might overlap, wingers might swap sides, etc, etc... basically anyone in the front 4 could end up anywhere, really! As long as the rest of the team maintains a more rigid, disciplined shape then I'm kind of happy for the for the attackers to freestyle it (to a certain extent).

This is why I don't think I'll ever understand why so many attackers care so much about the exact starting positions they're given - across the 90 minutes, they're likely to end up doing a bit of everything anyway, and in a high-press they're certainly all going to have to put in a defensive shift - is it really that big a deal? (Keeping in mind we're talking about "professionals" here, who are paid millions of pounds a year to do this for a living - just deal with it, please!)

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

I love how M's name gets shorter every time it's written!

Funny you should say that [about the 4-2-2-2]... I was just thinking that that's how most of these shapes / formations will probably end up in real-time when we're in possession. Most likely we'll end up Özil either coming more central to play through balls (or getting down the channels for cut-backs), with Auba hitting the near post, Laca ghosting in behind to the back post (hopefully unnoticed) and Ramsey following in as a delayed runner to give us a 3-pronged goal-threat. Any real width will be provided by the fullback on whatever side the play is on.

I've always thought that shape was more about how we regroup when we're defending anyway, and where our players should be starting attacks from - beyond that there's not much predicting how it will unfold, as wide players might come central, central players might go wide, advanced players might drop back (e.g. for hold-up play), deeper players might overlap, wingers might swap sides, etc, etc... basically anyone in the front 4 could end up anywhere, really! As long as the rest of the team maintains a more rigid, disciplined shape then I'm kind of happy for the for the attackers to freestyle it (to a certain extent).

This is why I don't think I'll ever understand why so many attackers care so much about the exact starting positions they're given - across the 90 minutes, they're likely to end up doing a bit of everything anyway, and in a high-press they're certainly all going to have to put in a defensive shift - is it really that big a deal? (Keeping in mind we're talking about "professionals" here, who are paid millions of pounds a year to do this for a living - just deal with it, please!)

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For me, the starting position matters and effects how we attack and defend. The more you freestyle, the harder it gets to maintain a rigid order. It relates back to what we were saying about Ramsey, if he’s bombing forward further than the striker, his recovery run to try and defend when play breaks down will be difficult and almost impossible to recover from. You need someone to cover his position.
But if you have wingers that are also cut inside to a central position exposing the flanks, full backs bombing forward to compensate for a in drifting wingers, you’re left vulnerable to counter attacking teams.

Also, this relates to what I was saying to Blink about Ozil, I believe if you’re not playing in your natural position when receiving the ball, you’re always having to work yourself into getting into the optimal position but by the time you work your way in field or out wide, the opportunity has gone or you’ve lost the ball. If you’re hogging possession and have a slow build up play, you’ll eventually get into the spot you want to be in but you’re most likely crowded out by defenders.

Ozil has been great on the wing for Germany and Real I believe, been very effective on the counter, IMO that's his best position when he performs.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Ozil has been great on the wing for Germany and Real I believe, been very effective on the counter, IMO that's his best position when he performs.

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The World Cup kind of passed you by, then...?

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Originally Posted by Özim

Ozil has been great on the wing for Germany and Real I believe, been very effective on the counter, IMO that's his best position when he performs.

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Yes and in 2011/12, Wayne Rooney was still banging in goals for Man Utd. Things change and shit happens.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

The World Cup kind of passed you by, then...?

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I didn't mean in the World Cup, but in the past when Ozil has stood out, this was generally on the wing in counter attacks, IMO that's where he excels, quick counters where he delivers a great cross or ball as his delivery is very accurate.

We just don't seem to use him to his strengths consequently we never see the best of him.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

Yes and in 2011/12, Wayne Rooney was still banging in goals for Man Utd. Things change and shit happens.

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But not for Walcott right, he's still hard done by even today ;)

More recently than that for sure, IMO we haven't used Ozil effectively, he needs to be in a counter attacking team if you want to see him at his best.

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Originally Posted by Özim

But not for Walcott right, he's still hard done by even today ;)

More recently than that for sure, IMO we haven't used Ozil effectively, he needs to be in a counter attacking team if you want to see him at his best.

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Walcott's time has come and gone.

Everything discussed yesterday was past tense and based on what he’s done and not what he can do today. I thought you’d understand that.

Bringing up what Ozil did at Real Madrid for Jose Mourinho is pointless. People are talking about his performance for Arsenal yesterday and what we’ve seen of him on the wing in the past for Arsenal and Germany. What worked almost 10 years ago might not work today.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

Walcott's time has come and gone.

Everything discussed yesterday was past tense and based on what he’s done and not what he can do today. I thought you’d understand that.

Bringing up what Ozil did at Real Madrid for Jose Mourinho is pointless. People are talking about his performance for Arsenal yesterday and what we’ve seen of him on the wing in the past for Arsenal and Germany. What worked almost 10 years ago might not work today.

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As I said though, we've never played him in the right way, I've always maintained he never suited our style of play, he's best suited to counter attacking, unless we play wth more pace and with more counters we'll never see the best of him.

He's not been in great form for Germany recently but he wasn't German footballer of the year in 2011, 2012, 2013,2015 and 2016 for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Özim

As I said though, we've never played him in the right way, I've always maintained he never suited our style of play, he's best suited to counter attacking, unless we play wth more pace and with more counters we'll never see the best of him.

He's not been in great form for Germany recently but he wasn't German footballer of the year in 2011, 2012, 2013,2015 and 2016 for nothing.

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If you’ve been following the conversation, this is exactly what folks in here have been talking about this morning.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

If you’ve been following the conversation, this is exactly what folks in here have been talking about this morning.

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We will if we play more counter attack of course, whether we do or not is up for debate of course, I didn't categorically say we'd never see the best of him, just that we may not.

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Originally Posted by Özim

We will if we play more counter attack of course, whether we do or not is up for debate of course, I didn't categorically say we'd never see the best of him, just that we may not.

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But you did that.

Never mind. Someone else can comment on how we played yesterday and over the pre season. Are we taking a faster more counter attacking approach?

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

Never mind. Someone else can comment on how we played yesterday and over the pre season. Are we taking a faster more counter attacking approach?

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From what I've seen we were played off the park yesterday in the 1st half and Chelsea should have been 3 up, then they made a stack of changes in the 2nd half (including taking Cesc off) and we got back into the game.

Bellerin had a mare but Smith-Rowe and Lacazette looked sharp. Defending was awful in the 1st half, similar to last season.

Hearing Cech is taking up a higher starting position. I get the feeling he feels invigorated for this season. Perhaps all the newness around him has given him a new lease of life and I wouldn't be astounded if he rolled back the years a little for the first half of the season and is very solid....in spite of my vocal desire for us to sign top class and consistent keeper which we haven't had since David Seaman.

Bellerin needs to break old habits and create new ones fast. Unfortunately that takes time. Unfortunately Torreira won't be ready for City.


We have too many CB's already and my feeling is that Mav, Chambers or Holding should start with one of the older more experienced guys. No point having all 3 of them in the squad on the fringes. Because of his maturity and speed I'd lean towards Mav but the brawn and brains of Koulibaly really did almost surprise me when I saw him play. Times his intervention, watches the play carefully and concentrates, immediately covers the goal line when a fellow defender makes an intervention leaving the goal more open......really impressive stuff. Would have absolutely loved to him pushing around some of these premier league Centre forwards. Admittedly he's obviously been coached intelligently though which is what comes across when you watch him....not just some supernatural ability and size.

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Originally Posted by Özim

From what I've seen we were played off the park yesterday in the 1st half and Chelsea should have been 3 up, then they made a stack of changes in the 2nd half (including taking Cesc off) and we got back into the game.

Bellerin had a mare but Smith-Rowe and Lacazette looked sharp. Defending was awful in the 1st half, similar to last season.

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:upset:Cesc Fabregas! Still hurts.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Hearing Cech is taking up a higher starting position. I get the feeling he feels invigorated for this season. Perhaps all the newness around him has given him a new lease of life and I wouldn't be astounded if he rolled back the years a little for the first half of the season and is very solid....in spite of my vocal desire for us to sign top class and consistent keeper which we haven't had since David Seaman.

Bellerin needs to break old habits and create new ones fast. Unfortunately that takes time. Unfortunately Torreira won't be ready for City.


We have too many CB's already and my feeling is that Mav, Chambers or Holding should start with one of the older more experienced guys. Not point having all 3 of them in the squad on the fringes. Because of his maturity and speed I'd lean towards Mav but the brawn and brains of Koulibaly really did almost surprise me when I saw him play. Time's his intervention, watches the play careful, concentrates, covers the goal line when a fellow defender makes an intervention leaving the goal more open......really impressive stuff. Would have absolutely loved to him pushing around some of these premier league Centre forwards.

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Yeah, I heard Cech saved two penalties last night. Two!

Any ideas what formation we played?

Bellerin needs a few games on the bench. Lichsteiner might not be the quickest but hoping he's just as solid as Monreal, who also isn't that quick.

Looked like s standard 433 from what I could gather from 15 minute highlights but who knows....

I've been thinking about this for a while. I actually don't think Litchensteiner is going to be as motivating a force to Bellerin as many seem to think. I think he is just going to look behind him and see a decorated war veteran half on a last hurrah.

Is he really going to think this 34 year old slow defender who will be here 1 year...two years tops, that hasn't even played a full 90 yet and didn't look especially clever in the world cup for all his experience really something to be scared of? Even if he replaces him for a few cup games, he's not a realistic threat to his long term future which in itself is tempered by the fact he's probably ready to move on to Barcelona or somewhere else anyway. He's not playing good enough to mind....not nearly, but point being that I'm just not convinced he is majorly threatened by it.

I actually think he would have felt more threatened by AMN. I await globalgunners timely interjection here about how AMN is one of my favourites or my bastard child or something....

But seriously as an athlete AMN is right there with him, quick, has great stamina, stands his ground on one 1 v 1s, is good technically...so much so he's a consideration for midfield, can play in a number of positions so many around the club actively want him around the squad and to find him game time and was one of the few bright sparks in a dreary season last year and is of an age where he is conceivably expected to get better.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Looked like s standard 433 from what I could gather from 15 minute highlights but who knows....

I've been thinking about this for a while. I actually don't think Litchensteiner is going to be as motivating a force to Bellerin as many seem to think. I think he is just going to look behind him and see a decorated war veteran half on a last hurrah.

Is he really going to think this 34 year old slow defender who will be here 1 year...two years tops, that hasn't even played a full 90 yet and didn't look especially clever in the world cup for all his experience really something to be scared of? Even if he replaces him for a few cup games, he's not a realistic threat to his long term future which in itself is tempered by the fact he's probably ready to move on to Barcelona or somewhere else anyway. He's not playing good enough to mind....not nearly, but point being that I'm just not convinced he is majorly threatened by it.

I actually think he would have felt more threatened by AMN. I await globalgunners timely interjection here about how AMN is one of my favourites or my bastard child or something....

But seriously as an athlete AMN is right there with him, quick, has great stamina, stands his ground on one 1 v 1s, is good technically...so much so he's a consideration for midfield, can play in a number of positions so many around the club actively want him around the squad and to find him game time and was one of the few bright sparks in a dreary season last year and is of an age where he is conceivably expected to get better.

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Hey, ya never know. We were just talking about Petr Cech a second ago. Competition helps. If Bellerin isn't worried about Lichtenstein, that's Bellerin. I just hope that Lich can try to defy the odds and give Emery a selection headache with good performances.

I'd rather AMN get game time as CM to be honest but we'll see what sort of problems we face when the season kicks off. He may be left with few choices when it comes to playing.

At this rate he can definitely have Bellerin or Kolasinac' place!

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/03/arsen...squad-7792629/

Dembele!

Swap deal for Ramsey maybe?

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/03/arsen...squad-7792629/

Dembele!

Swap deal for Ramsey maybe?

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Doubt it, just dinner with friends!

We'd never pay the money required to sign Dembele, Barca will want to recoup most of what they spend and Ramsey with one year left is worth 30 million max.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Doubt it, just dinner with friends!

We'd never pay the money required to sign Dembele, Barca will want to recoup most of what they spend and Ramsey with one year left is worth 30 million max.

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I read something about a loan deal. They just bought Malcom so maybe there is something in this.

A loan deal would be good business. Sign him up.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

I read something about a loan deal. They just bought Malcom so maybe there is something in this.

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I reckon he's an addition, Barca have said he's not for sale they need a good squad especially after losing Iniesta and with Suarez and Messi ageing. I don't think there's anything in this at all.

TBH not interested in a loan deal, he'll just go back at the end of the season so we don't really get a long term option, we're not some small club other clubs can loan players to only to take them back when they feel like it, this is all media nonsense IMO.

I'd take him in any capacity right now - we need that type of winger as an option, and even a loan would at least buy us another year to look for a more permanent solution. (And if it helps us get back amongst the CL spots, then so much the better!)

Loan deals happen in football amongst big clubs all the time. Douglas Costa is on loan from Bayern to Juve. Mbappe is on loan to PSG. Agree with IAI. It's the need of the team that comes first.

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Originally Posted by Power n Glory

Loan deals happen in football amongst big clubs all the time. Douglas Costa is on loan from Bayern to Juve. Mbappe is on loan to PSG. Agree with IAI. It's the need of the team that comes first.

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Juve bought Douglas Costa for 40 million Euros. Loan deals happen with an option to buy but not straight loan deals which is what this would be as Barca wouldn't sell him (Costa, Mbappe were all with an option to buy and have will be bought).

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Originally Posted by Özim

Doubt it, just dinner with friends!

We'd never pay the money required to sign Dembele, Barca will want to recoup most of what they spend and Ramsey with one year left is worth 30 million max.

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With regards to the money Barca would want to recoup, it's worth noting that the £135.5m figure that most people have in their heads is the maximum that they might end up having to pay over 5 years - however, 40% of that figure actually relates to performance-based add-ons, and as he only made 24 appearances in his first year (scoring just 4 goals), I doubt they'll owe Dortmund too much more than the inititial fee that was agreed, which was £96.8m.

Now that's still a lot of money, but if we're talking about including Ramsey in a partX, then all of a sudden the money involved almost starts to look average (by today's standards).

I just have my doubts that Barca would want Ramsey as part of the deal. Or, to put it another way, they might be interested in him, but probably not for the £200-300k/week he's pushing us for.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

I'd take him in any capacity right now - we need that type of winger as an option, and even a loan would at least buy us another year to look for a more permanent solution. (And if it helps us get back amongst the CL spots, then so much the better!)

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That's about sums it up yes!

Liverpool interested in Ramsey apparently, not a bad move for him tbf, they're a club going places!