One Arsene Wenger...

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Letters doesn't like facts that contradict his entrained line of thinking. You can only beat the moneyed clubs with money....but when some club like Athletico do it or Pool almost do it. he says its a 1 off. We Arsenal, haven't had a 1 off season since 2004 when we were the 2nd highest spenders in the PL (3rd really, but Abramovich was just getting warmed up back then). fact is you can challenge and consistently if you just get smarter. Instead Wenger just sulks and starts throwing tantrums. Imagine claiming that Chelsea spent more money than us so that why they beat us 2-0. we were not even remotely in that game. Chelsea's last Cl match was against a team whose yearly budget I am sure is less than Wengers salary. we had just spent almost 80m on 2 players in that same team and he claims we were broke. Thats why we lost.

Yes there is only 1 Arsene Wenger, I bloody hope so, cos I would not wish his 2006-2014 version on any football team.

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Wenger really exposed himself with the comment about Chelsea having money to buy players like "Hazard and Costa" who make a difference.

If he would have said this 5 years ago he would have gotten away with it but not now, especially given the Ozil and Sanchez purchases over the past few seasons. I can't remember where I read it but our front 3 in that game actually cost more than Chelsea's, ours was Ozil 42m, Sanchez 35m, Welbeck 16m, that's 93m worth of talent.

Wenger has money, he just doesn't spend it in the right areas of the team.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Wenger really exposed himself with the comment about Chelsea having money to buy players like "Hazard and Costa" who make a difference.

If he would have said this 5 years ago he would have gotten away with it but not now, especially given the Ozil and Sanchez purchases over the past few seasons. I can't remember where I read it but our front 3 in that game actually cost more than Chelsea's, ours was Ozil 42m, Sanchez 35m, Welbeck 16m, that's 93m worth of talent.

Wenger has money, he just doesn't spend it in the right areas of the team.

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My main frustration with Wenger is that the main reason for me that he doesn't learn from his mistakes is that there is no consequence for his catalogue of failings.
You can tell that the only time the pressure is on is when 4th place is in question, it's only when it appears we could drop out of the Champions League that the results and the performances bizarrely seem to improve.

Some of that frustration should be with the board to set his deliverables.
They're clearly happy with a top 4 finish and the money continuing to roll in.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Some of that frustration should be with the board to set his deliverables.
They're clearly happy with a top 4 finish and the money continuing to roll in.

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Much of my frustration is with the board
My disagreement with people on here is with other users who believe no one but Wenger is at fault where I believe there is equal culpability.
But ultimately we have often had a squad capable of competing and it is does not reflect well on the Manager that he has either lacked the ability or motivation to at the very least take a title challenge into the last week or so of the season.

There's no doubt the board are to blame, but despite that I still feel that as top class manager your aim should be to succeed by winning the big trophies, he seems all too happy settling for 4th.

That might well be what the board are happy with, but what about his managerial ambitions?

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

My main frustration with Wenger is that the main reason for me that he doesn't learn from his mistakes is that there is no consequence for his catalogue of failings.
You can tell that the only time the pressure is on is when 4th place is in question, it's only when it appears we could drop out of the Champions League that the results and the performances bizarrely seem to improve.

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Aye, It's a frustration of mine too. Not only do results improve but we seem a lot more focused, tactically aware and organised, it's weird!

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Letters doesn't like facts that contradict his entrained line of thinking. You can only beat the moneyed clubs with money....but when some club like Athletico do it or Pool almost do it. he says its a 1 off.

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My line of thinking is that the clubs with the infinite money cheat on clearly have a big advantage over the rest.
Money and success in football are very highly correlated.

Is that an unreasonable line of thinking? It's clearly true. Since 2004 only 3 clubs have won the title in England, the three with the highest resources. Cups by their nature are more variable but even then there are only 2 examples in the FA Cup in the last 20 years of anyone outside the top few winning it - Wigan (who beat City which I think most would agree was a shock result) and Portsmouth (who beat Millwall in an unusual season when none of the big guns made the final).

Liverpool did well last year but they had no European football and one world class player who nearly dragged them single handly to the title. Even then they fell short (literally) in the end. And now they've lost said player and have the CL games to contend with they've been all over the shop.
Athletico have done exceptionally well but they are a rare exception that proves the rule (I never understood that phrase until I read that an old meaning of 'prove' was 'test', the phrase makes much more sense that way).
They are a rare counter-example and shows it's possible. No-one said it's not possible. All I said is we can't compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market. Do you disagree? But we DO have the resources to build a squad good enough to get much closer than we are. If you get close then you just need a bit of luck and you could win the title. Wenger has failed to get close enough consistently to give us that chance and that's where he's failed.

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Originally Posted by Letters

His legacy has been tainted, I'd agree, but is it that hard to remember the great teams? You don't have any problem remembering the 'wonderful' 92/93 team who, frankly, were awful to watch. That season had a happy finish (which could easily have gone the other way) but 80% of it was horrible, we finished about 7 points above relegation, scored something like 40 goals in 42 games. It was boring boring Arsenal and their boring boringest.

The teams in the first half of Wenger's reign were far, far better and I feel priviledged to have had a season ticket during that period. Clough took Forest down in the end and I believe he's still regarded highly by Forest fans. All Wenger's done is taken us from first to fourth and he's vilified. He certainly deserves some stick and I think we all agree it's time for him to move on now but the legacy of the trophies, great football and steering us through the stadium move should not be forgotten or ignored.

You remember the good of 92/93 and conveniently forget how awful most of the season was, it would be weird to ignore all the good Wenger's done. 5 FA Cups, 3 titles, two of those doubles, an unbeaten season, amazing football, keeping our heads above water financially during a massively complicated stadium move. It's a shame he didn't go on a high last season but in the fulness of time I think his legacy will be appreciated. It bloody well should be.

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I don't remember 92/93 that well, what made it memorable was that last gasp winning goal, the matches themselves are hard to remember, just as those from our successful years under Wenger are, largely because in the last 8 years he's forced us to watch slow-paced, boring and largely ineffective football, which year on year has led to the same result.

I want to remember the great times but we've had so many years of more mediocre times it's hard to really recall those with any great clarity, my feelings towards Wenger is that rather leaving as a true great, he'll leave as a good manager with glaring flaws, who rather than be proactive hid behind convenient excuses and limited his ambition to the board's financial requirements.

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Originally Posted by Özim

There's no doubt the board are to blame, but despite that I still feel that as top class manager your aim should be to succeed by winning the big trophies, he seems all too happy settling for 4th.

That might well be what the board are happy with, but what about his managerial ambitions?

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Yes, you can tell by what a sulky arse he is when things are going wrong how happy he is.

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Originally Posted by Özim

There's no doubt the board are to blame, but despite that I still feel that as top class manager your aim should be to succeed by winning the big trophies, he seems all too happy settling for 4th.

That might well be what the board are happy with, but what about his managerial ambitions?

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Yeah this is my issue too. I accept that the board have a part to play and are at fault too but any manager worth their salt would want to win and at all costs.

Wenger isn't pragmatic enough, we need a winner now.