Match Reaction: Inter 1 Arsenal 0

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597247]

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Originally Posted by Mac76

It would be demonstrably untrue if I’d said that spending money is the only guarantee of winning things. Man United like Chelsea (more recently) have spent a lot of money on players that weren’t good enough or had the wrong attitude.


Chelsea’s high turnover of managers almost always accompanied a run of poor results, and in both cases their champions league wins were accompanied by poor league form. Three of their five titles were delivered by the same coach….so there’s an argument for retaining a sense of consistency

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As George Graham showed when he went after the Cup Winners Cup the reality it sometimes helps if you focus on one competition - no Chelsea fan is complaining at a middling league position for the years they won the CL and nor would we

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Originally Posted by IBK

Yes, the concern definitely is that Arteta may have peaked. There are some mitigating circumstances - look at Liverpool last season after they had been pipped by Citeh to the title by a point the previous one - off the top by 9 points, there can be fallout.

But I agree with others that the issue could well be that our manager's natural focus is on defence/possession and not in sharpening our attack. Given what we are seeing in the league - even Pep, the manager who seemed previously willing to play without an out and out striker revised his approach when buying Haaland - this seems a somewhat outmoded approach (could Arteta be living a bit in the past from his Citeh experience?).

Its funny how we have gone so quickly from having what was considered the most cutting edge tactical manager in the league (with Guardiola) to the likes of Iraola; Maresca; Slot and even Espirito Santo and Emery showing that their tactical nous is equal to his.

It's Arteta's blind spots that may prevent him from making further progress with us. It's too early to assess whether our current form will continue, but the signs are suddenly not particularly optimistic.

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We never seem to be a team who can break quickly and run up the pitch and score - i realise that's anathema to Arteta who wants us to have the ball all the time, but it's one of the reasons why Saka is always surrounded by defenders

The way he gets back to defend shows he has the pace, we just never see it going forward

I get we don't want opposition teams coming on to our defence all the time - although that's what Arteta seems to invite with his excessive defensiveness on the pitch at times - but there's a happy medium - the times Salah is at his best is when Liverpool break up the pitch

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597251]

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

As George Graham showed when he went after the Cup Winners Cup the reality it sometimes helps if you focus on one competition - no Chelsea fan is complaining at a middling league position for the years they won the CL and nor would we

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You mean the year we got to the final and lost ? :lol:

You’d have had a better example of the year later where we dispensed with Bruce Rioch despite getting UEFA cup football on the last day

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Originally Posted by Mac76

We never seem to be a team who can break quickly and run up the pitch and score - i realise that's anathema to Arteta who wants us to have the ball all the time, but it's one of the reasons why Saka is always surrounded by defenders

The way he gets back to defend shows he has the pace, we just never see it going forward

I get we don't want opposition teams coming on to our defence all the time - although that's what Arteta seems to invite with his excessive defensiveness on the pitch at times - but there's a happy medium - the times Salah is at his best is when Liverpool break up the pitch

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True although Liverpool at their zenith also liked to press teams high and then pounce on mistakes. The difference was a) more clinical than us and b) at their best they almost never fell victim to the counter attack.

But too often we don’t see interested in launching a counter attack when defending a lead and getting possession back in our own third. Now as IBK stated the other day this was meant to be one of the benefits of having David Raya in terms of distribution

I think what helped them for sure as well as having Henderson and Fabinho was that they had the support of both full backs getting forward. Whilst Ben White does that (and is a very good crosser of the ball to boot) we don’t have that on the left unless Calafiori is playing

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597253]

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Originally Posted by Mac76

You mean the year we got to the final and lost ? :lol:

You’d have had a better example of the year later where we dispensed with Bruce Rioch despite getting UEFA cup football on the last day

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Well making a final would be progress of sorts

but yes on my other point about being ruthless with managerss, the Rioch one is a good example of the approach we need to take

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597255]

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Well making a final would be progress of sorts

but yes on my other point about being ruthless with managerss, the Rioch one is a good example of the approach we need to take

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But that’s not the Chelsea approach which has been chaotic and any success largely attributable to the money pumped in. If I recall Rioch was on a deal for one year that we were able to extend but we chose not to. This is I think because Dein wanted to bring in Wenger when Graham went but was vetoed by Hill Wood (knowing Hill Wood something like “bah what would a Frenchy know about the English game”)

You can be ruthless without running a circus. We aren’t going to go beserk in the transfer market in a way that’s going to make things remotely sustainable (especially taking into consideration the cost of firing managers making pay outs and bringing in someone else) also it tends to mean you’re not going to get the best quality of coaches in. Because any decent coach will want time

I think you can argue Arteta has taken us as far as he can and I’d have no objection to parting ways with him at the end of the season (barring either a collapse or a miraculous turnaround). I think whatever this process or plan we have in place, it should be robust enough to survive his departure. But I don’t want us to have a revolving door hiring policy.

I think actually someone needs to be identified who we believe can get us the bare minimum of the title in the next three seasons

[QUOTE=HCZ_Reborn;4597256]

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Originally Posted by Mac76

But that’s not the Chelsea approach which has been chaotic and any success largely attributable to the money pumped in

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honestly it's just "lalalalala" with you isn't it - I'm talking about Abramovic's Chelsea not the mess they are now

and again pumping loads of money in doesn't help on its own, as Chelsea and Man Ure have been in the last few years, spending loads and now and being mid-table

[QUOTE=Mac76;4597257]

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

honestly it's just "lalalalala" with you isn't it - I'm talking about Abramovic's Chelsea not the mess they are now

and again pumping loads of money in doesn't help on its own, as Chelsea and Man Ure have been in the last few years, spending loads and now and being mid-table

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You’re the one making the argument here. I know full well what era of Chelsea you’re talking about.

I don’t think it’s a good or successful model of running a club, the only reason it remotely worked for them in terms of winning anything at all was the amount of money they pumped in. The reason it doesn’t work now is because you have an inflated transfer market which means now more than ever as you say spending money doesn’t guarantee success

I don’t think it’s a good way to run a club, and I don’t think it would work for us. Instead of trying to claim that I’m deliberately misunderstanding you, accept that people not agreeing with you is not the worst thing that will happen to you

:lol: you are actually unbelievable. I’m actually for once trying to be reasonable rather than dismissive and insulting (which is more fun) but all you’re proving here is what I knew to begin with that everything you claim about me is mere projection. You literally can’t stand to be disagreed with. I don’t know if you think I’m disagreeing with you for the sake of it, No I don’t think Chelsea in the last twenty years has ever been a good model for sustainability at a football club.
I think the only success they’ve had has been down to money, and I don’t think Man United in the age of FFP in anyway disproves that. But guess what fella, you don’t have to agree. But the exasperation isn’t necessary…think of your blood pressure

I'm just amazed you keep saying the thing about it only being about money when, for the third time, Man Ure and Chelsea, as well as others have showed just spending money isn't the answer unless it's used right and you have someone who can get the team to win