Our 'rowers' are a damn sight better than Stoke's...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Printable View
Our 'rowers' are a damn sight better than Stoke's...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
In our case it would be the Thames that swarmed all over the boat and held it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Every time after a bad loss Wenger starts bleating at the defence. Disgraceful from a manager...it was the same last year after all those maulings we recieved. How do you go about blaming the players you bought trained and instructed for repeated bad performances. Our players have no discipline or game nous, to break up counter-attacks. Our most experienced CB is a beanpole with no physicality, who cannot run, cannot jump and rarely scores goals for someone so tall. Who is responsible for this mess?
Well yes I don't think you will get any argument from me that a do nothing board should be held to account for giving Wenger free reign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Can blame Kroenke all you like, but Wenger was in total unquestioned control long before he became majority shareholder
Should they have sacked him after the FA Cup win?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Well no, but they should sack him now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The thing is we can't do much about the ownership of the club, if we had a manager who was more intent on winning however this would probably be a non-issue, he's go the money to spend it's his fault he doesn't spend it correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
No owner is going to complain if you go out on a limb a spend money and win, they might if you do and don't deliver....seems Wenger is too risk averse, he's happy with 4th place and achievement he seems to value just as much as any of the major trophies.
'we' can't do much about anything.
In the middle of the season when we're only 3 points away from the top 4?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Stoke are not Oxford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
On a normal calm river, on a lovely sunny day our rowers should out-row Stoke, but on a freezing cold day with turbulent water the strength of Stoke can prevail. Therefore we need rowers able to adapt to this situation whereas we go out on to turbulent waters with our fair weather rowers every week.
F--k me you two - you're confusing me know. PnG's trying to stop Letter's from sacking Wenger - I need a lie down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I was going to edit my post but I anticipated a reply, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'm not a big fan of the idea of us sacking a manager mid-season. We certainly don't want to turn into Spurs, hopping from manager to manager with increasing desperation. I'm beginning to think though there's very little left to lose. We need to start preparing for a post-Wenger Arsenal at least and there's very little sign the board are even doing that.
My more general point was you can't sensibly say Wenger is entirely to blame. As HCZ said, the buck stops at the top of the tree and Wenger is, ultimately, just an employee. I'd say he should take the majority of the blame but I don't absolve the players totally and the board should be getting more stick about persisting with him than they do.
No, that’s not my argument. I’m saying it wouldn’t make sense for the Board to sack Wenger in the middle of the season when we’re not that far off the top 4 or before the season started after an FA Cup run. They have to get their timing right and that’s why he’s still in the job. Wenger has hid behind excuses for years and lumped the blame on to the Board with his constant excuses. Now that he’s been given money to spend and they’ve made it clear that they won’t restrict him, he’s been left pretty exposed. His popularity amongst the fans is at an all-time low and at the end of this season would be the best time for them to act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
We're stuck with him until the end of his contract, I don't even think he would get fired if we failed to finish top 4.
“We live in a world where everybody has an opinion and we have to live with that. At the end of the day, somebody always has to make a decision and that’s the guy who is responsible.”
Wenger has always said he'd leave if he didn't feel he could contribute any more to the club. But the problem is his role extends far beyond what happens on the pitch. So when he scrapes 4th and the cash registers ring up another £30mill, in light of his extended role, he's contributed so he doesn't leave. Our next manager needs a much more clearly defined role that is focused 100% on the team and nothing else. We're in this shit because Wenger has about 15 jobs at the club, a by-product of a crappy board who invested nothing, contributed nothing and happily handed over their responsibilities to one man. If that man then becomes the weak link you're fucked. The board will need to find it's balls (somehow) to dig us out of this before 2017. Somebody needs to step up. We have Silent Stan, Ivan and the old school tie brigade. I don't hold out much hope. It's pretty grim to be in a position where failing to qualify for the CL might be the only thing that can break the cycle. But if we drop out of that elite circle then we might have a hell of a time getting back into it considering half our badge kissers will probably want to fuck off.
:haha: :haha: :haha: Brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I think Wenger has done a good job of keeping himself out of the limelight with the way he shifts the blame. He’s used the oil barren clubs success as an excuse for years to mask his failing. If he’d have been sacked before this season kicked off, I think a lot of fans would have been taking a swipe at the Board. That’s no excuse for their cowardice though. They should have been putting him in check, but we really don’t know what’s been said behind closed doors. In football, the Board only get recognised when there is money to spend or managers get sacked. They could have sacked him earlier, but this Emirates project is still pretty fresh and we’ve only just secured new sponsorship deals. Would we have secured such good deals if we had just sacked our manager with a long serving history of a Top 4 finish? They must have taken that into consideration as well. Rock the boat later once the checks have cleared. That’s my theory. If they remain idle after this point then they deserve all the criticism they get. But I can understand why they wouldn’t rock the boat prior to this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
YES!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
A weak and mediocre mentality that has seeped through every player and inch of the club.
Defenders fucking up every week? TRAIN AND ORGANISE THEM!
Youngsters fucking up every week? DON'T THROW THEM IN THE DEEP END AGAINST DORTMUND AND STOKE AWAY!
Get battered by top teams? SET UP TIGHT AND STOP PRETENDING LIKE WE'RE PLAYING YEOVIL!
Have to play a left back at centre back? BUY A FUCKING CENTRE BACK!
Get outfought by other teams - BUY A TOUGH DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER!
Rue fixture list? DON'T GO INTO A 50 GAME SEASON WITH 6 DEFENDERS!
THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!!!
He's an employee, so no it doesn't. If he's not doing his job then the board should have replaced him.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Trouble is, of course, he is doing his job, as they define it. And that is entirely their fault.
:tiphat:
The point is though who is holding him to account for not doing this?Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Straw argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Nobody here is absolving the board for Wengers lunacy
However a sane, thorough, analytical and self motivated manager would have thrived, rather than stagnated under this same board.
Our indolent board should be a managers dream....The right manager,mind.
If we need to change 1 of the 2 the manager needs to be out on his arse.
You are always fond of the Hitler analogy so I will ask you this
Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany
I find it hugely ironic how Lineker, of all people, is defending Wenger. It's because of his ridiculous stunt at the end of that edition of MOTD that our manager is the subject of such diatribe from opposing fans (case in point- the Stoke City Neanderthals giving it the "let's all do the Wenger".on countless occasions)
Yeah I am totally with you. Another issue is that Wenger's idea of contributing/delivering and the general fans idea of him contributing/delivering are two different things. Wenger sets his own goals and if he meets them then we are all expected to be satisfied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
He still hides behind "Chelsea" and money, he recently used that excuse when they beat us 2-0.
I do think a lot of his roles and responsibilities outside of managing the football team have been taken away from him over the past few years which is a good thing, the problem is like you stated he is not been held to task/accountable for his performance as Football Manager. We have absolutely nobody on the board who calls out his performance and I don't see that changing anytime soon. In fact the likes of Keswick and Gazidis just make comments such as "We have absolute faith in Arsene when it comes to the Technical side of Managing the team, Arsene is the expert in this area". That's all we hear...
Its a well known fact that Spuds would all love us to keep Wenger. If he stays another 10 years, The mighty Spurs will eventually stumble on a manager who can elevate them above us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
There are people saying that Wenger is ENTIRELY to blame, so yes they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
That's a bloody terrible analogy. The German people didn't have the power to remove Hitler any more than we have the power right now to remove our government. We have an opportunity to next May of course but even then it's a collective decision in which, with FPTP, most people won't get what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
The Arsenal board have the power to remove Wenger any time they choose.
That's an easy one. The British, Dutch and American banks were the main culprits, the German people second, Hitler third.Quote:
Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany
Or: The fans, the board, Wenger.
If you don't fund and follow a dictator then the dictator is just some ridiculous guy stomping around.
The board do not select the team or buy the players. Do not wait until the 70th minute to make changes and dont neglect glaring holes in the squadQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I compared the situation to Hitler because you are wont to use the analogy whenever Wenger is being criticised here.
The analogy you need to see is that this board is as helpless as the German people. They have the power but are scared stiff of using it.
In the UK you have a funny sort of democracy that doesn't allow you to vote out unpopular prime ministers because all they need to do is win in Grantham or wherever
No, but they continue to employ the man who does and that is entirely in their control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I literally can't remember ever doing that, but even if I have occasioanlly I certainly don't do it 'whenever' Wenger is criticised :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Yoiu should be too young to have systemic memory loss. You cant remember sarcastically saying on a recent match thread that Wenger " the worst person in history since Hitler"Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Will you forgive Wenger if he says sorry though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:lol: Wwwetters is a lost cause. Poor soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Oh FFS :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I might have said it as a joke once, you made it sound like I post it every time Wenger gets the slightest bit of criticism.
I know the question wasnt directed at me but you blame bothQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
The Nazis didnt seize power they were elected democratically on a far right anti-semetic platform, Wenger disbanded democracy as an election promise....the German people willingly gave their consent and are tacitly responsible for everything afterwards that happened.
I don't think any manager can prosper long term without proper checks or balances, it's not healthy for a football manager to be answerable to no one
Don't you start!Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Ha Ha sorry couldn't resist itQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Arsene Wenger über alles
Über alles in die welt
And just to be even more of a pain in the arse
Hey letters, did you know that up until his death the Catholic Church used to celebrate Hitlers birthday?
How is it bullshit when it was clearly mentioned how tactically lacking he was? The ONLY excuse you and many on here had was that Wenger didnt have money to spend... that excuse has been thrown out of the window this season because we have the money, so whats the problem? The bumbling idiot of a manager tbf..Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As for dropping out of the top 4, I never cared about that shit top 4 position. All I cared was for my team to give a F*** and play good football... both of which stopped since 2009.
You cannot honestly deny that what is happening was not predicted. Not the exact way of course coz only good fake lord in the sky can make predictions like that. But the fact that Wenger will shown up for the fraud he is, that was predicted. Whether you want to give credit for it or twist words and roll die's is up to you. It doesnt matter however.. the bigger picture is that the cancer in our club has been detected and people are talking about removing it.
The German people voted Hitler in yes. But once he was installed he exterminated all opposition and declared himself ruler for life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
But enough with talk of Devil spawn
Lets talk about football. We have a shit manager. Do we or Don`t we. He doesn't learn doesn't take criticism and wants to stay in charge for life. and he`s sent Letters out to exterminate all opposition. What do we do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Well like I said he basically said a vote for him would be one to end democracy, and he would become dictator
The German people liked that idea just as much as they approved of persecuting Jewish people
Don't get me wrong it wasn't just in Germany, in Slovakia (yes this country did exist during the war until it was reabsorbed into Czechoslovakia) the government paid the Nazis to take their Jews away. The country had a non aggression pact with Hitler and were at the time under no pressure to expel their Jews.
We swallowed the no cash marking time scenario but now that we are over this things are a lot worse. Arsene has also marked time tactically ,subjected us to serial humiliation but still does not get it. Many will understand now why our best players can't wait to leave. Suspect Sanchez will be the next.
To be fair on Letters he's more playing devils advocate because we are in a situation on this board, where basically anything that is said that is not unequivocally detrimental to Wenger is pounced upon.
I've already been denounced as a Wenger lover earlier for a post that could in no way be seen as a defence of the manager, and its by people who have become too firmly entrenched to the point where not only dissenting opinion is shouted down, but nuanced opinion is as well.
It's a big worryQuote:
Originally Posted by rodders