Wenger Referendum: Yes Or No

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Originally Posted by Letters

Those are reasons why people should still post in this thread after a win, but they don't.

There's clearly a debate to be had about Wenger, and most of us think we need to be preparing for a post-Wenger Arsenal. In the UK there's a debate to be had about immigration - but it's difficult to have that debate without sounding racist what with UKIP and Farage around. In the same way it's difficult to have a sensible debate about Wenger with people who only post after a defeat and who, at times, use such extreme language about him.

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I don't even think there's a debate to be had anymore TBH. I personally think he's knee deep in it, we have so many issues with this team/squad, whilst we can't point our finger at him and blame him for everything, he's deeply involved in it and quite frankly has nowhere to hide, no more excuses.

For me the debate isn't so much about "does he go?", it's about "when he goes"

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Originally Posted by Letters

I meant in this thread in particular. I understand there are long standing reasons why people think we should move on from Wenger but people only post in here after a poor result which makes it look knee jerk and petulant.

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You're probably the only person that sees it as knee jerk.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Oh right. Hasn't everything that needs to be said been said about a thousand times? This thread, like many others, has become a sounding board for frustration. Even if we went on a run of 20 games unbeaten, does any sane Arsenal fan think we'd win the crucial 21st crunch match that made an actual difference? We'd definitely lose that. So the 20 unbeaten games are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, when is all this going to collapse? Wins don't mean anything at this club because we never build on them. However, we often deliver new lows which is lucky because it at least gives us something to talk about. Our winning runs are like a cart accelerating out of control down a boulder strewn hillside. It's always just a matter of time before the whole thing smashes to tiny pieces. You don't really enjoy a ride like that do you? There's no steering wheel, no sense of purpose. And you can even see the rock that's going to kill you way before you hit. And camera crews and journos are camped out waiting because they know what's going to happen too. They already have the copy written, they just need the photos.

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:gp:

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Oh right. Hasn't everything that needs to be said been said about a thousand times? This thread, like many others, has become a sounding board for frustration. Even if we went on a run of 20 games unbeaten, does any sane Arsenal fan think we'd win the crucial 21st crunch match that made an actual difference? We'd definitely lose that. So the 20 unbeaten games are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, when is all this going to collapse? Wins don't mean anything at this club because we never build on them. However, we often deliver new lows which is lucky because it at least gives us something to talk about. Our winning runs are like a cart accelerating out of control down a boulder strewn hillside. It's always just a matter of time before the whole thing smashes to tiny pieces. You don't really enjoy a ride like that do you? There's no steering wheel, no sense of purpose. And you can even see the rock that's going to kill you way before you hit. And camera crews and journos are camped out waiting because they know what's going to happen too. They already have the copy written, they just need the photos.

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Just a :gp:

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

If he doesn't spend the money then it goes in a pot to be shared out when the next gang jump overboard. Might as well spend it and see if something works by luck.

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We need some money left in the pot for the new manager to create a balanced team. The next guy will inherit a mess if we've got injury prone players on expensive contracts, key players looking for the exit and once promising young players shot to pieces physically and mentally. Emergency funds will be needed so the next guy isn't forced to work with the mess Wenger has created with little room to make improvements.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Oh right. Hasn't everything that needs to be said been said about a thousand times? This thread, like many others, has become a sounding board for frustration. Even if we went on a run of 20 games unbeaten, does any sane Arsenal fan think we'd win the crucial 21st crunch match that made an actual difference? We'd definitely lose that. So the 20 unbeaten games are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, when is all this going to collapse? Wins don't mean anything at this club because we never build on them. However, we often deliver new lows which is lucky because it at least gives us something to talk about. Our winning runs are like a cart accelerating out of control down a boulder strewn hillside. It's always just a matter of time before the whole thing smashes to tiny pieces. You don't really enjoy a ride like that do you? There's no steering wheel, no sense of purpose. And you can even see the rock that's going to kill you way before you hit. And camera crews and journos are camped out waiting because they know what's going to happen too. They already have the copy written, they just need the photos.

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Excellent post NQ. Nobody in his right mind could even envisage a cogent case for Wenger staying. It's pretty obvious, he stays because he sees nowhere else for him to go and nothing else for him to do that will deliver the same power and daily satisfaction as being a top flight manager of a upper echelon team. He won't leave easily because he has no internal compass that enables him acknowledge that he is actually holding this club back. We deride Keegan for bailing out when he did but the man has my utmost respect because he acknowledged that it wasn't in him to deliver results, not excitement as that was a Keegan trademark,, but results on a consistently upward trajectory. Wenger is not like this. He sees each individual victory as a vindication of his methods and each failure as a segue of bad luck and bad officiating. We are going nowhere with this man, nowhere. No team coached by Wenger now could ever pull off the once in a lifetime result the Spuds had yesterday. It isn't possible.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

We need some money left in the pot for the new manager to create a balanced team. The next guy will inherit a mess if we've got injury prone players on expensive contracts, key players looking for the exit and once promising young players shot to pieces physically and mentally. Emergency funds will be needed so the next guy isn't forced to work with the mess Wenger has created with little room to make improvements.

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Is it really that much of a mess? Just last season we won the Cup and finished with 79 points. This season we've taken a massive step back but the core of last season's squad is still there and there's a lot of talent in there. We clearly need more depth at the back but otherwise there's not loads wrong with our squad. I don't buy that we have 'injury prone players', I just think there's something wrong with the training, I don't know if there's stats out there about the injury records of our players before the come to us or after they leave vs their time with us, it would be interesting to see that.

Injuries have been a massive issue for years now, he's had ample opportunity to find solutions and prepare the squad adequately but nothing changes.

Don't give him cash. Just ride out the season, hope we finish 4th then get rid. Come on Gazidis you cunt.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is it really that much of a mess? Just last season we won the Cup and finished with 79 points. This season we've taken a massive step back but the core of last season's squad is still there and there's a lot of talent in there. We clearly need more depth at the back but otherwise there's not loads wrong with our squad. I don't buy that we have 'injury prone players', I just think there's something wrong with the training, I don't know if there's stats out there about the injury records of our players before the come to us or after they leave vs their time with us, it would be interesting to see that.

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What core will be left in a few years? Think long term. You often say you're worried about life after Wenger so think how much more difficult it will be if we haven't got the funds for the new guy to spend on new players? We have an ageing defence for starters and you don't help yourself by talking about last season compared to this one. What state will we be in when he steps down?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

What core will be left in a few years?

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Probably the same place we are now, if Wenger's still in charge.
There's been no steady decline, we've just stagnated with a pattern of some seasons of improvement, some of regression.