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Horrible comparison. Cazorla quite clearly is better technically than Cesc in any category you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
- Two feet
- Faster feet
- Better close control
- More agile
- Better dribbler
- Can beat a man
- More flair
- Better one touch passer
- Better two touch passer
- Better three touch passer
- Better strike
Cazorla is a lot better than Cesc, hands down. In fact, I rate Cazorla higher than both Ozil and Cesc. At Arsenal, he is not big name enough to be given the no 10 role, otherwise he would have a truck load of assist and double figure goals as well. :coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBN
No because he plays as a winger so he's running at wingbacks and hardly sees a centreback. Also, as a striker you don't need to be the type that is trying to mix up physically with a CB and contesting the ball in the air. Plenty of short strikers have developed their game without having to play the battering ram.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Has Theo ever scored a hat trick as striker? Yes. Has Giroud?
Syn said Cesc was a key player not the key reason. It's also dumb to say Costa was the only reason and not Cesc because you don't know how Costa would have played without Cesc's assists. Have you seen him for Spain? They're not a team short on creating chances either. Not saying Costa is crap but he's not some one man dynamic striker that can survive without service. Yes, Chelsea were creating chances before but Cesc added to that and was top of the league with assists and he was assisting Cosa for a lot of those goals.. It's really simple. Even Chelsea team mates will say both players were important.
Baptista has a hattrick..
He's blessed with talent but he's not had a season for us where he's carried us or everything has ran through him. That's partly down to the manager messing with his position and pushing him to the flank but imo he's not a player that's racked up a silly assist count as well as goals. In Cesc best season he got 19 goals and 20 assists. We need that from Santi before I can firmly say he's better and I'd say Cesc played with weaker players to get those numbers and be so influential. We'll see how Santi fairs playing in the middle but I can't see him even getting there with players like Ozil also chipping in.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBN
Does that reflect well on Giroud? Theo has 3 and 2 have come when playing as striker. West Brom and Newcastle. Just saying there is something there to explore. If he flops he flops but so far he's looking good and just needs to learn certain aspects and tactics against different opposition. It's no different to having Santi learn how to play CM or Ramsey go out wide so I don't know why Wenger is so resistant. Way too opposed with over long tippy tappy passing in front of our opponents and just enables them to create to lines of 4 in front of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
in the Arsenal system, there is one striker. We need that striker to be able to hold the ball. Was Thierry a battering ram? no, but he could hold the ball up for Pires and Freddie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Theo cant do that and is just not capable of it.
never said he was. What I said is that Chelsea were creating bucketloads of chances before Cesc arrived. It wasnt Cesc that turned them into champions, it was Costa. Cesc was the cherry on top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Theo played center forward against Chelsea in the Community Shield and Chelsea pinned the team in because Theo was not a good outlet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
And Santi played CM for Malaga.
Football has changed since Henry and Pires if that's your best example. If I went off those times we'd never have slight players like Cesc, Cazorla or Ozil in our midfield because the same arguments about needing to be physical in this leaue would apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Theo might not be capable of holding up the ball like a bigger player but has that stopped him scoring from that position or stopped Ozil and Cazorla from getting him the ball? Explain how's been able to get two hat tricks and was also involved with the goal that got Wenger his first win against Mourinho?
But would we have won against Chelsea if we employed the same tactics that have have resulted in a loss or draw every time against Mourinho? We won at the end of the day and he helped set up the goal. You can't knock it. It might have been a tactic to not pin a team like that back and be open for the counter because it's how they've destroyed us before.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Santi played on the left for Malaga and would cut in.
this is a crazy statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
All I said is that Henry isnt a battering ram yet could hold the ball. I don't even know what your statement means in this convo, lol.
Is Benzema a battering ram? Lewandowski? Suarez? The same point still applies.
against teams that sit deeper, it hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
simple, Villa and Newcastle played high lines and attacked us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
West Brom quit the day we played them last season. (last match of season)
When teams sit deeper, Theo isnt as effective. Its been the story of his career, sadly.
no, Santi played all over the midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He played half his games at CM and partnered with Ignacio Camacho in a 4-2-3-1. Isco played in front of that. Its similar to where he plays now. He played the rest of his matches on the right.
Agree with you on his link up play but you don't play Theo to be a link man. Link men are normally the bigger guys who are good with their backs to goal. We use Giroud for this, we tippy tappy up the field yard by yard until we lose it with a Ramsey flick that comes to nothing. This is the slow build up play that you see from us nowadays which is the only way we can play with Giroud, either that or become more direct. It also takes 50 moves like this to result in a goalscoring oppportunity & if it falls to Giroud another 50 before he'll score.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
WIth Theo, he plays or should do on the shoulders of their centre halves. We play the tippy tappy in the middle of the pitch until BANG - Theo makes a pre-planned run into the channel & Ozil sends him clear. We have a one on one. If you do this effectively, with Sanchez also offering the pre-planned run, it would result in far better opportunities ie one on one's & at a quicker rate per game. Its sort of shows why why beat Villa & West Brom 4-0 at the end of last season as opposed to only 2 goals so far in our 2 games - but for god sake don't let Wenger know, I'm waiitng to see how long it is before he works it out.
See Dean machines post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
It's not the story of Theo, it's the story of Arsenal and Wenger not being able to get the best of this tactic. When Ade was playing like a lazy sod we'd suffer. Chamakh was garbage and another that played with his back to goal too long and too concerned with short passes and one twos. We have the same problem with Giroud and it's not like he is that effective against teams sitting deep either. The flicks and bad touches cost us possession and Imo he is a plan b player like Kanu was.
Lack of movement and speed is what kills us up front and why you also see players like Pod and Welbeck look lost and ineffective against teams that sit deep. If Theo had a run of games up front and it was clear he was useless in these situations you'd be totally right but so far we have a handful of games and in 2 of those he has scored a hat trick.
Regardless, he's not known as a CM. He played mainly on the flanks in Spain and would cut in. Even in our system he played a more advanced role in the middle so he's still learning the CM role for us and in our league.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
but with Theo, against most teams, the shoulder would end up being the goalkeeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
West Brom checked out before that last match and Villa played a high line and attacked us. When Theo has space he kills. When there is no space, he is useless.
so against teams that sit deep, Theo is effective? We play him on the wings and he isnt effective at all in those types of matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Theo would be our right sided forward if he would help the right back more. THats his issue.
And Theo isnt that dissimilar to the flaws Podolski and Welbeck have when playing against teams that are sitting deep and inviting the attack. Thats why he plays Giroud. Ideally our forward would have Giroud's size with some speed.
De Bruyne apparently agreeing personal terms with a fee in the region of £50m attached. Good on Wolfsburg for rinsing the shit out of Citeh.
FFP sure put the brakes on them. One lawyer and Platini grabs the brown envelopeshits his pants. Hope he becomes FIFA president, we need his special kind of integrity at the heart of the game.
I doubt the fact all our rivals are strengthening while we stand still will make much of a difference. Complacency has worked for us in the past and it can work for us again.
:lol: Can you name me a player that's been effective against teams that sit deep?Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Theo's done better at coming into the box and getting poacher goals when teams sit deep because it's not as if Giroud scores a lot of goals with his head when people cross. It's difficult scoring goals from the right when your right foot is the strongest foot but Theo has done a real good job of getting those goals.
You only have to look at Theo's first ever goal to see how someone with pace can unlock a defence that's defending deep. Giroud can't do this. Wenger said he gets more goals with his first touch and because of that fact, he's unable to take a touch of the ball to lose a marker and open up space for himself to shoot. I've always said we should have had Theo playing down the left more like Henry or down the centre. He's more confident cutting in on his stonger foot and that's the case for most players. Except Cazorla of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Xtf9IhUs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baef2jCJDxo
I mean come on! West Ham weren't great but I can't see Giroud scoring these type of goals in the box. Very easy to say West Brom had checked out but with the way we were going at Palace and chances created, the game should have been over in the first half. Just look at the West Ham opener as well. We make them look like a well drilled machines and can't score a goal at home but the following week some newly promoted side put two past them with ease.
Theo`s mythical pace is is only real asset which will be gone in 2 or 3 years time when he will be knocking 30. when he is 32 years old people will remember him as a player who had some potential but for some reason it never materialised.
Yes he is a good player but nothing special. If Theo was at another club right now. Hardly anyone on these boards would be clamouring for us to sign him. i blame Wenger for this as he is a coach who cannot drag a world class player out of an average one. Its about ability but also about mentality. Jermaine Defoe is of a similar stature to Theo but could play the lone striker better than Theo ever could.
Theo is a lost cause, a player who would probably have been better off never signing for us. If he was our main striker we would never get anywhere near 4th place. Let him be the x factor coming off the bench, that really only whats left for him.
On the contrary, if Walcott was playing for a team like Everton, he'd be standing out a lot more and everyone would be calling to sign him. 'Players like Walcott' doesn't come in to it, he's as unique as it gets. hes already a good player, to become a top quality player he needs to stay injury free. His footballing ability is not as bad as people think, he had a solid first touch and technique. Obviously pace is his no. 1 asset but he shouldn't have to apologise for that. Nothing wrong with it.
When we buy playa?
But his selfishness does piss me off. It's not a good thing if strikers are selfish - that's Stone Age thinking straight from talksport. You need to do what's best for the team, not your individual fantasy football points. Him and Ramsey are fucking annoying in that respect.
Forget Everton. If he played in France, Germany or Spain a lot of people would be wetting themselves for such a signing and begging for Wenger to play him as striker. When linked with Draxler and Griezmann it was mayhem and talk of converting them into strikers couldn't stop despite little evidence of that even working. Griezmann is pint sized like Theo and even that French kid Lacazette is the same height as Theo with a similar stature. If Theo played in those leagues and people heard he could play on the wing and centre plus saw the Youtube clips but in a different kit.....:faint: #buyplayaQuote:
Originally Posted by Syn
Exactly. For various reasons Theo has never developed into the player he could have been and while still a good player, he is nothing special. A very good squad player but not a starter anymore here and he's lucky that Wenger still persists with him as he does with so many others. No other top four team would take him on, the best he'd get is a Liverpool/Tottenham side, teams that now thrive on 'almost' players. Sure he'll score some goals upfront but he's no striker and would not play in that position at any other club above our own, he is best deployed out wide to use his pace and timing. Whether he remained or was sold in the summer wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to me. Nine years and not much to remember about him so far that will live on once he retires.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Hmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Were he to play 38 games he would get no less goals than Giroud would on the basis of the fact, he is unlikely to go several games against several different opposition (like Giroud did last season) without scoring and is far more likely to score braces and hat tricks, because once the opposition have conceded one, their nervous defence don't do well against him.
That's not to say somebody like Theo who scores more is of higher value in the team than Giroud over the course of the season though. I think the analysis of Theo is often lazy and it is easy to forget that he generally scores every type of goal apart from the shove the defender to the ground and head it in type.
Jermaine Defoe enjoyed the 442 formation for a significant time through his career so the comparison is distorted.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Plus Theo would hardly ever be fit.
It's really lazy and I think most of his critics have the memory of a fish. Before his injury he picked up 21 goals with 16 assists. Without his contribution we wouldn't be top 4. In his last few outings he's bagged goals and the team have played well so its not as if you have to look back that far to see how he's progressed as a player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Wenger can't have opted to pay him 140k a week and then leave him out of his harebrained schemesplans.
In spite of that, he will be left out and used as a spare part...his numbers won't look as good and people will point to this as proof that he is no good and that we should get rid. :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If he knows the players worth (that is, financial worth) he'd begrudgingly do it anyway....he is after all the consummate economist...Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Walcott is an instictive player. He can't think it through beforehand. He just goes, finds space and converts.
His problem has always been when he is under pressure to do something or be somewhere. He has no football brain in an Ozil / Bergkamp sense.
There is no set game Theo is best suited for. He just turns up sometimes, and orher times ge has no fucking clye how to get into a game, and no inclination to do it anyway.
He's great when he's angry, has a point to prove, or anythng else emotional to him. Otherwise, he's standoffish, clueless and a waste if space.
All in all, you want hin there, but if you found Alexis 2, you'd fuck him off.
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...ay-sky-sources
Wenger, please go in for him! :pray:
Why?
Anyway, Chelsea have signed Kenedy. :unsure:
Mr. Kenedy...
Kenedy?
Good signing for Vitesse.
Why would anyone want Wanyama? Fakeyank is really weird. Might as well get Tiote.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm
You can't compare his intelligence to that of Ozil's or Bergkamps. They don't use the term a 'strikers instinct' for nothing. You'll see a clear difference in intelligence when a player like Ozil is in the box with an opportunity on goal compared to Theo's. Most of the stuff a striker does off field in training pays off so everything on the pitch looks like instinct when banging in goals. But it takes practice, intelligence and learning from situations so it becomes second nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
The playmaker's intelligence is easy to spot in football but we could sit and watch a 100 goals or runs from wingers and strikers and I doubt we'd be able to pin point what they were thinking beforehand. When Sanchez or Ox go on mazy runs do you think they're thinking before hand that they'll beat 2 or 3 players before getting an shooting opportunity? The footballing brain thing is just media soundbites. If you listen to Henry talk about his development as a striker and the stick he used to get in his youger days for going out wide. I'm sure his early critics would have said some bs about him not understanding the game or lacking a footballing brain. Don't listen to idiots like Chris Waddle. To make the runs that Theo does and to anticipate the pass or be in the right place at the right time shows his intelligence as a striker. Or who knows. Maybe it's just instinct. Maybe the reason why Giroud seems so static in the box is because he's thinking and contemplating the run instead of actually doing it. ;)