Ozil - Do we need him?

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Originally Posted by Penguin

The quality of the assists don't matter as long as he keeps making them. But he is capable of picking out superb passes if the movement is there. Like the one for Alexis against Reading in the FA cup, or the one for Alexis against Leicester last season, or the one for Alexis against Watford a couple of weeks ago. I'm noticing a pattern there :lol:

Doesn't help that Sanchez and Theo are the only two players who actively look to make runs in behind. Someone like Lewandowski would love to have Ozil behind him.

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We definitely could do with a top quality striker like Lewandowski but once again we're in this position. I blame Wenger to an extent but there aren't many players like Lewandowski on the market. I look at Atletico and Dortmund a day they had to convert wingers into strikers to get the sort of performances they need so I understand why Wenger is trying Sanchez up front and what attracted him to Perez.

But seeing how everyone is complaining about Sanchez and skeptical of Perez, we don't have many more options on the table. I would have thought Ozil would have thrived off Sanchez or Perez up front. That hasn't been the case but maybe it's early days and we'll come back to this in a few months.

But seeing how we can't rely on the transfer market to bail us out, I wonder what's our next move. If Sanchez and Perez don't work up front, reverting back to Giroud seems like a waste of time unless we try playing Giroud with Perez or Sanchez next to him or slightly behind. Which means no number 10. No ozil in that position anyway. But looking around the globe, how many teams actually play with a number 10?

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Originally Posted by mastermind84

What an idiotic thread.

His assists declined last season in the second half because we had no finishers. His chance creation numbers were pretty much the same.

The football aptitude of this forum can be embarrassing sometimes.

Even last night, he created the chance that lead to the goal. But his head is gone apparently. So effing stupid. You been on an anti-Ozil agenda for a while too.

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Thanks for your contribution Mastermind. Always a pleasure. :good:

We are judging the Perez/Ozil partnership efficacy based on one game. If you are saying to me Perez was isolated because he wasn't being found by Ozil than yes obviously I'd agree with you. Ozil had one of his worst games in an Arsenal shirt on Saturday and he wasn't much better last night. If he continues playing like that, than the question you are posing about him comes into sharper leaf but I would argue that it's more a result of a player who doesn't want to play for us anymore than his overall quality.

Again you'd argue that calls into question his attitude, I think at times his attitude does stink....if we are arguing for a player who gives you muck and bullets performances it's not Ozil. But yes whilst I do think players need to take responsibility, they aren't programmed machines they are adult human beings...if Ozil doesn't up his game after two poor performances his place in the side should be under scrutiny as much as anyone else's.

Where I disagree with you, is that I think last season he was one of the players who had very few poor performances and was arguably let down by the players around him, against Southampton I think the players around him were let down by him....and last night everyone played like a Tosser with the odd exception.

There is always a discussion to be had about getting the best out of players, I just honestly think at the moment anyway in Ozils case it's criticising the colour of the wallpaper when the foundations are crumbling

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

We are judging the Perez/Ozil partnership efficacy based on one game. If you are saying to me Perez was isolated because he wasn't being found by Ozil than yes obviously I'd agree with you. Ozil had one of his worst games in an Arsenal shirt on Saturday and he wasn't much better last night. If he continues playing like that, than the question you are posing about him comes into sharper leaf but I would argue that it's more a result of a player who doesn't want to play for us anymore than his overall quality.

Again you'd argue that calls into question his attitude, I think at times his attitude does stink....if we are arguing for a player who gives you muck and bullets performances it's not Ozil. But yes whilst I do think players need to take responsibility, they aren't programmed machines they are adult human beings...if Ozil doesn't up his game after two poor performances his place in the side should be under scrutiny as much as anyone else's.

Where I disagree with you, is that I think last season he was one of the players who had very few poor performances and was arguably let down by the players around him, against Southampton I think the players around him were let down by him....and last night everyone played like a Tosser with the odd exception.

There is always a discussion to be had about getting the best out of players, I just honestly think at the moment anyway in Ozils case it's criticising the colour of the wallpaper when the foundations are crumbling

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It's really early days for Perez but I'm basing this off Ozil playing with Sanchez as well. It's more so about the type of striker he's playing with. I've always thought he'd flourish off a more mobile striker but I have my doubts. The next few games will tell us more, but without a target man and with the sort of wingers we have, he may have to get used to holding the ball in the final third a little longer since we aren't playing with a target man.

I can't really speculate on what he feels about the club. That's not what this is about. The bad performances may just be down to being tired, it maybe be a case he needs to adjust.... I don't know.

Sanchez can't play as a striker he was shit in that position when he had other midfielders play behind him earlier on in the season.

How many times do you see him looking to play centrally, he doesn't...he prefers to drop deep take players on and then sometimes drift into the centre when he's in posession.

Sanchez plays his prefered position of wide forward with a striker playing centrally than you will see the best out of him.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

It's a valid thread with good points brought forward on both sides. The only thing embarrassing is your post.

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when you make a thread asking is Ozil that good and that he is marginal for Arsenal and Germany despite being the main man for both teams, then this thread deserves the stamp of idiotic.

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Except when he does, like for those three goals I mentioned?

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if Alexis ran behind more, he would have more goals and Ozil would have more assists. He doesnt. Thats why he sucks at striker. He chases the ball too much and doesnt stay advanced.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's good to know because the idea came from a couple of the discussions I've had with you. ;) With Xhaka in the squad you once said we could play Ramsey and Wilshere as the trio. So it leaves the question of where do we play Ozil?

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ive always maintained lets go 433 and put Ozil out wide where he spends most of his time anyway. Its nominally wide, not hugging the touchline wide. Most fans dont see the difference.

To say that Ozil is a marginal player for Arsenal and Germany is one of the most asinine things I have ever read on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Sanchez can't play as a striker he was shit in that position when he had other midfielders play behind him earlier on in the season.

How many times do you see him looking to play centrally, he doesn't...he prefers to drop deep take players on and then sometimes drift into the centre when he's in posession.

Sanchez plays his prefered position of wide forward with a striker playing centrally than you will see the best out of him.

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And you're basing that off a handful of performances as well. Also, it's worth remembering Perez isn't a natural striker and would drift deep or wide when he played. Time will tell whether it's something that can be worked on or if it's the wrong system. Sanchez has played behind the striker for Chile from what I recall and Perez isn't used to playing as lone striker. This is all we have to work with so we shall find out. But as said, I Atletico and Dortmund had convert wide players to wingers and I wonder how long it took for them to adjust. Would they even be the players they are now if given a chance in our system?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

On a plate? As clear cut as the chances Cavani missed? I recall a lot of missed headers but nothing defence splitting where we missed sitters. He's far far away from Bergkamp's level and I'd say he's not even as good as Cesc.

When Henry described Bergkamp having the ability to put the ball in your path with the correct pace so you're not breaking a stride, on your stronger side so you're set up on your strong foot or so the ball is away from the defender.....I remember the same being described about Cesc's passing. I rarely see that from Ozil. Maybe it's because we don't have the type of players or we're having to operate with less space. I don't know. But it's rare for me to see a pass from Ozil that has me blown away.

Heck, thing of that Bergkamp assist to Freddie against Juve. It's even more sublime when I hear Dennis describe what he was doing and buying time for Freddie to make that run.

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Really unfair to compare Ozil to a football genius like Bergkamp ........really, really unfair. Ozil is a good quality player but sorry not a patch on Bergkamp imo

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Originally Posted by Maestro

Really unfair to compare Ozil to a football genius like Bergkamp ........really, really unfair. Ozil is a good quality player but sorry not a patch on Bergkamp imo

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Definitely. He's not great but good. Some people have a problem with me saying that. But I'm more so thinking of the defence splitting passes we'd see from Dennis and even Cesc. I don't see Ozil pulling many of them off which is why I don't pay much attention to that chance creation stat. It's misleading. I don't rate cut backs that highly especially if on the edge of the box and shooting is the better option.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

And you're basing that off a handful of performances as well. Also, it's worth remembering Perez isn't a natural striker and would drift deep or wide when he played. Time will tell whether it's something that can be worked on or if it's the wrong system. Sanchez has played behind the striker for Chile from what I recall and Perez isn't used to playing as lone striker. This is all we have to work with so we shall find out. But as said, I Atletico and Dortmund had convert wide players to wingers and I wonder how long it took for them to adjust. Would they even be the players they are now if given a chance in our system?

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It's not like playing Walcott up front where sometimes it's hard to know what is his best position, there doesn't seem to be any question with Sanchez, it's not just like he's a striker who drifts from that position when he plays up front it looks every inch that we are playing without a striker, it looked that way last night until Giroud came on.

It's not a criticism of Sanchez, there just doesn't appear to be any indication he can play there and certainly not in a formation with three central midfielders and two wide players.

Could he play behind a second striker? Maybe....but to be honest we give away too much space in the middle of the park with three midfielders in the middle, let alone with two.

To be honest it seems like you are desperate to try incorporating a system in order to not play Ozil.