Paris 2024 Olympics

Overall they were a good Olympics.
The opening ceremony was a mess - I applaud the ambition but it didn’t really work.
There was some stuff about the Olympic Village being substandard but overall the Games were well organised and run. I liked the closing ceremony.
Olympics are always good so long as the organisation isn’t a complete shambles because ultimately you’re watching a load of remarkable humans battling it out (oh, and that Aussie breakdancer).

It’s sport in a pure form, just like the PL isn’t

I think the Boxing situation with Imane Khelif was a bit unsavoury, and the IOC were to blame for that. Basically stating that it doesn’t accept the legitimacy of sex testing in the sport. When you’re talking about a sport where the difference between male and female physiques can put people in danger, that’s actually a pretty reckless attitude. In a way feel sorry for Khelif, if the IOC ignore the IBA’s results and say this person can box in the female category, why wouldn’t they. This isn’t a trans issue because such concepts are not recognised in Algeria. DSD shouldn’t be used as a political wedge issue by either side, this is a matter that should have been resolved by common sense….not as a culture war issue.

The issue is the organisation claiming these results - note, they haven’t released them - are not trusted. The head of the organisation gave a rambling press conference about it all which was intended to clear things up and didn’t. During it he claimed the boxer had failed some testosterone test which one of his own doctors said they didn’t even do :shrug:

She has been boxing for years against other females and has always been female as far as she or anyone else knew. I do think the whole thing has called into question her legitimacy and they should do more tests to sort it out. But the usual suspects leapt on it and made it a trans issue which it just isn’t.

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Originally Posted by Letters

The issue is the organisation claiming these results - note, they haven’t released them - are not trusted. The head of the organisation gave a rambling press conference about it all which was intended to clear things up and didn’t. During it he claimed the boxer had failed some testosterone test which one of his own doctors said they didn’t even do :shrug:

She has been boxing for years against other females and has always been female as far as she or anyone else knew. I do think the whole thing has called into question her legitimacy and they should do more tests to sort it out. But the usual suspects leapt on it and made it a trans issue which it just isn’t.

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I’m sorry but this isn’t about the IBA at all, yes they are absolutely a disreputable organisation. But they don’t do the testing analysis themselves, it’s outsourced to a lab in India. The fact is the IOC made no attempt to clear the matter up because their philosophy is that they don’t recognise sex testing and what someone is, is what it says on their passport. Which is obviously complete bollocks otherwise you wouldn’t have segregated sex categories to begin with. As I say yes absolutely it shouldn’t have been turned into a trans issue. But if someone is biologically male, whether they were aware of it or not they should not be eligible to compete in the female category.

The thing is the level of testosterone in the test was like off the charts, more than than your average bloke would get.


If Khelif wants to submit to testing to prove that the IBA test was faulty or fraudulent it would clear everything up, somehow I’m guessing they won’t.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m sorry but this isn’t about the IBA at all, yes they are absolutely a disreputable organisation.

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And they are the ones who are making the claim about the test result. Which they haven't released.
So yes it is.

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The thing is the level of testosterone in the test was like off the charts, more than than your average bloke would get.

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Do you have any evidence for that? Other than the IBA claims? An organisation you have called disreputable.
In the account I read of the rambling press conference claims about testosterone were made which were contradicted by one of the IBA's doctors who said they didn't test for testosterone.

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If Khelif wants to submit to testing to prove that the IBA test was faulty or fraudulent it would clear everything up, somehow I’m guessing they won’t.

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I agree she should and if she doesn't then it will add credence to the IBA's claims.
But my point was how certain actors tried to turn this in to a trans issue when it just isn't one.

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Originally Posted by Letters

And they are the ones who are making the claim about the test result. Which they haven't released.
So yes it is.


Do you have any evidence for that? Other than the IBA claims? An organisation you have called disreputable.
In the account I read of the rambling press conference claims about testosterone were made which were contradicted by one of the IBA's doctors who said they didn't test for testosterone.


I agree she should and if she doesn't then it will add credence to the IBA's claims.
But my point was how certain actors tried to turn this in to a trans issue when it just isn't one.

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Again no it isn’t, the IOC could have put the matter to bed months ago but kept the issue going. It does not recognise the validity of sex testing and wouldn’t have banned Khelif or Lin had they proved to be XY. It’s not a fairness issue, it’s beyond that…it’s a safety issue. And saying Khelif has boxed female boxers before and hasn’t done serious harm, is like saying a child has been left with an XL bully unsupervised and it hasn’t had its face mauled off


The IOC needs to revoke this ridiculous idea of you’re a woman if that’s what your passport says.

I’m not interested in bringing the trans debate into it either.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Again no it isn’t

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Well, that’s convinced me then :good:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well, that’s convinced me then :good:

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The point is whether you accept what the IBA claim or not doesn’t matter, the refusal of the IOC to even countenance testing because it would be discriminatory is that caused this row. Simple as that

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The point is whether you accept what the IBA claim or not doesn’t matter, the refusal of the IOC to even countenance testing because it would be discriminatory is that caused this row. Simple as that

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To be fair, using the sex someone is classified as on their passport has been perfectly acceptable throughout Olympic history. We are now entering an era where that is no longer fit for purpose but
And this whole thing only blew up when that Italian boxer quite after 45 seconds - she subsequently apologised.
Before all that I'd never heard of this boxer or all the kerfuffle around her last year.
You say the IOC could have put this to bed - so could the IBA by releasing the test results.

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Originally Posted by Letters

To be fair, using the sex someone is classified as on their passport has been perfectly acceptable throughout Olympic history. We are now entering an era where that is no longer fit for purpose but
And this whole thing only blew up when that Italian boxer quite after 45 seconds - she subsequently apologised.
Before all that I'd never heard of this boxer or all the kerfuffle around her last year.
You say the IOC could have put this to bed - so could the IBA by releasing the test results.

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I’d heard about it a while before the Olympics started.

Well no the IBA couldn’t have put it to bed, because they would have still been eligible under IOC rules. You accept of course that what made sense in the past can’t apply now, because by bringing the trans thing into it people can legally change their sex even if they can’t biologically do so.

And with boxing especially, a woman fighting someone with male muscle mass and testosterone levels is especially dangerous.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Well no the IBA couldn’t have put it to bed, because they would have still been eligible under IOC rules.

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Firstly, why do you keep saying "they"? Khalifa has been born and raised female, she identifies as female and has never transitioned in any way.
Her pronouns are "she"/"her" as they would be with any female.

What the IBA could have put to bed is the thoughts that they're just bullshitting because she beat a Russian boxer last year.
You have agreed they are "absolutely a disreputable", so publish the results and remove that doubt.
That would probably have forced the IOC to change their stance.

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And with boxing especially, a woman fighting someone with male muscle mass and testosterone levels is especially dangerous.

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Sure. All the more reason the IBA should have evidenced their claims. As it is their claims aren't even consistent:

https://apnews.com/article/olympics-...3743f535ef9ed3

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IBA President Umar Kremlev, an acquaintance of Russian President Vladimir Putin who spoke on a patchy Zoom from Russia, then said through a translator that the tests showed elevated levels of testosterone.

That appears in direct contradiction with an IBA statement from July 31, when it said Khelif and Lin “did not undergo a testosterone examination but were subject to a separate and recognized test, whereby the specifics remain confidential.”

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:shrug:

No it wouldn’t have forced the IOC to change their stance. This is why you had a biological male in the female weightlifting category in Tokyo. A lot of these international organisations are ideologically captured.

And I’m saying they because there is doubt over their sex. What their gender identity is to my mind irrelevant, how they were raised is irrelevant. Castor Semenya was raised female, but to all intents and purposes is male.

Khelif and Lin equally could have undergone tests to affirm or deny the results of these tests.


I can hold two thoughts in my head, that the IBA is a corrupt organisation of course can lead to questioning the legitimacy of its claims, but there’s a difference between this and outright dismissal. Lin never challenge their ban, Khelif did initially but eventually dropped the case (which to give them the benefit of the doubt, such appeals are often expensive and take a long time)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...khelif/679410/

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

No it wouldn’t have forced the IOC to change their stance. This is why you had a biological male in the female weightlifting category in Tokyo.

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The weightlifter met the testosterone requirements outlined by the IOC. There’s certainly a fairness issue in weightlifting - it helped that in this case she wasn’t actually much good. But there’s no safety issue in boxing. So yes, it would certainly have put a lot of pressure on the IOC had results been released proving these boxers have male genetics and testosterone levels - again, the second of those was simultaneously claimed and refuted by the same organisation.

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Khelif and Lin equally could have undergone tests to affirm or deny the results of these tests.

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They could, but the burden of proof isn’t on them. The IBA are the ones making the claim.

The TL;DR of that Atlantic article is “it’s complicated”, which it is

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Originally Posted by Letters

The weightlifter met the testosterone requirements outlined by the IOC. There’s certainly a fairness issue in weightlifting - it helped that in this case she wasn’t actually much good. But there’s no safety issue in boxing. So yes, it would certainly have put a lot of pressure on the IOC had results been released proving these boxers have male genetics and testosterone levels - again, the second of those was simultaneously claimed and refuted by the same organisation.


They could, but the burden of proof isn’t on them. The IBA are the ones making the claim.

The TL;DR of that Atlantic article is “it’s complicated”, which it is

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Again I’ve not denied that it’s complicated. The problem is, for the IOC it’s not complicated. You’re a woman if your passport says you’re a woman is how they conceptualise it.

Take away that ridiculous philosophy and the matter could have been resolved long before the Olympics

I might put on a wig and enter in 2028

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Again I’ve not denied that it’s complicated. The problem is, for the IOC it’s not complicated. You’re a woman if your passport says you’re a woman is how they conceptualise it.

Take away that ridiculous philosophy and the matter could have been resolved long before the Olympics

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I agree that’s a weird rule by the IOC. Maybe not historically weird but it’s not fit for purpose now.
Although that weightlifter thing says that their rules aren’t quite so simple as that. They do apparently have some rules around testosterone although there’s no indication they did any testing around that in boxing. Maybe that testosterone rule only applies to trans athletes.

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Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies

I might put on a wig and enter in 2028

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I'm sure you'd get away with it, they won't find a dick that small even with a microscope

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I'm sure you'd get away with it, they won't find a dick that small even with a microscope

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That's pretty transphobic. Women can have penises too you moron.

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Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies

That's pretty transphobic. Women can have penises too you moron.

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Some men even have penises, but it's getting rarer.

I don't know where we go from here. Even basic science can't bridge the gap, and we were relying on that to communicate with extra-terrestrial aliens FFS! Won't it be something when we can have a more connected conversation with ET than your average marxist plank?

Reports are saying that leaked medical reports confirmed that Imane Khelif has testes (I’m assuming internally)

So basically a man won the gold medal

What a farce,

Men have no place in womens sport.

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Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies

What a farce,

Men have no place in womens sport.

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Indeed

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Reports are saying that leaked medical reports confirmed that Imane Khelif has testes (I’m assuming internally)

So basically a man won the gold medal

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That's nuts!


:cool:

:getcoat: