Now its been agreed that Arsene Wenger wasn't lynched at the Stoke train station. What next to talk about. Katie Prices reduction boobjob. WTF with that?!
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Now its been agreed that Arsene Wenger wasn't lynched at the Stoke train station. What next to talk about. Katie Prices reduction boobjob. WTF with that?!
I've not used the poor old man argument, I've said rightly that these bell ends have sworn at Wenger because he is 65 and not of the character to respond. By that token I don't regard my Dad as a poor old man but he's 64 and I feel protective over him and if some idiots swore at him in the streets whilst my Dad is unlikely to care I'd want to tear their heads off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Obviously I don't feel protective of Wenger or feel emotional about him getting abuse, I just find it deeply disappointing.
I don't just read the Daily Fuhrer, but that's where I'm certain to find examples of the most corrosive "journalism". The Guardian is just as shit in its own way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Great article that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The focus is not on the "poor old man", it's on the morons who follow a guy to a station so they can scream at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Wasn't he walking on to the train with the rest of the team? Weren't they also being booed? It's not as if they caught him in a dark alley. The team bus has been booed before, right? He didn't respond because your not supposed to. That's how it goes for most celebrities unless your Kanye West. Just ignore and keep on walking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Really? I wouldn't care about the unwritten rule. If a stranger swore at me in public that person would be required to explain their actions and asked to apologise.
Personally I'd save "fuck off you cunt" for the people in this world that truly deserve it; Robert Mugabe, Vladimir Putin, Alisher Usmanov, Anjem Choudary, George Galloway....I could be here all day.
Yes the morons who simply have nothing else to do. than spend hard earned money, travel to a stadium to witness another capitulation by their team. I`m pretty sure if you do some investigating they were probably Stoke fans out to tarnish our classy holier than thou imageQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
To HCZ. If your father was a pompous man who refused to do his job properly and insisted on keeping it. He would deserve everything thats hurled at him. You don't keep a high value job simply because your are ancient or formerly successful. You keep it because you are continually good at it. Funny how Prime ministers are called every name under the sun but football managers are supposed to be venerated when they are plainly incompetent.
It's just booing. We have bigger problems in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I don't particularly care for David Cameron as prime minister (although its a sad state of affairs that even as someone who is a Labour supporter like I am would rather him continue as PM than Ed Miliband take over) but yes I have just as much contempt for people who scream "fuck off you cunt" at him, and he's 48 not 65.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
To shout and swear at someone is the recourse of the moron.....and it's inappropriate for me to be vitriolic to someone unless they have done something truly loathsome. Wenger hasn't killed your family, he hasn't sacked you from your job, he hasn't trampled on your human rights, he hasn't as far as I'm aware committed any crime. He is arrogant and pompous as you say but I think that of plenty of people I don't shout "fuck off you cunt" at them.
Really: You reckon you and Wenger operate on the same levelQuote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
If someone really swore at you in public. You would assess the situation before you decided what to do. Is he alone? is he 6`5" 220 pounds, Is he 5`6" and with a bunch of friends. Is he a native and you are a stranger. If you were smart you would just move on.
You are not emotional about it but you wont stop lamenting what happened? Mmm?
I have not exactly been sparing in my language towards Jose Mourinho, I find him a contemptible individual. But again if I saw him getting on a train with his team and I started swearing at him, I'd be the twat no ifs, ands or buts.
What I say about someone on a forum and what I scream in someone's face are massively removed from each other.
That's your personal stance. Fair play. But there are plenty on here that have no problem shouting that sort of abuse at the ref, opposing fans, opposing players, players that are delaying contract talks....it's just a little hypocritical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He is a football manager. Not a parish priest. People say nasty thing to managers all the time both friend and foe. No news here except its Lord Wenger getting an earful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It's called debate, you take one point of view I take the other and we are discussing the subject. It's called discourse, you don't like the point of view I'm expressing and from previous posts you seem to be historically contemptuous of my postings but despite all this you are not telling me to "fuck off" or calling me a "cunt". Somehow this is because you think it would make you look like a dick?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
But maybe you do have a point, I don't however Lament it as an isolated incident on its own I lament it that I live in a country where people see that kind of behaviour as acceptable.
The guys are dicks end of....
Yeah, it wasn't just booing. Very, very true. We have bigger things to deal with. Which merely serves to emphasise how idiotic the screamers are. But accepting some (many) people are more concerned with how many times a ball goes in a net than the absolute fucking carnage going on all around them, so a few fucks who deserve to be not just booed but killed can make a few quid, even if you're going to get that invested in comparative trivia at least take a breath and remember all the time you cheered and why you cheered. A bit of balance. I don't think anyone would have mentioned this incident if it was just booing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
And the general "holier than thou" criticism that some are starting to weave into their apologies, has anyone tried to claim our fans are purer than the other team's fans? To quote a great man, "I didn't see it!". It's not about holier than thou, it's about the fact Wenger has actually stuck around and done a shit load for this club. He deserves respect for that and it's quite possible to respectfully disagree with everything he's doing these days. Hell, even the media hacks don't rush into the room and call him a cunt. They know how to make the water hot for him without resorting to abuse and these guys aren't exactly the sharpest tacks.
Funny I thought id made the point that who it was wasn't importantQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
For example, I was the last person who would shed a tear when Margaret Thatcher died
But actually I thought the celebratory atmosphere among certain people was sickening, especially among young idiots too young to remember what Britain was like when she was prime minister.
And you could argue that her legacy was far more negative and destructive than anything Arsene Wenger could do at Arsenal.
During the Poll Tax Riots in 1990 was it a problem for people to chant "Maggie Maggie Maggie Out Out Out" not at all I'd have probably joined them but I was only seven.
But people screaming "die and burn in hell you evil bitch" just not on.
In fact I had the admire her when in 2001 campaigning in Romford for Andrew Rossendale replied to someone who called her an "evil woman" by saying "I'm sure there are a lot of people out there more evil than me dear"
Couldn't agree more. Which is why I settled on shouting, "Go Home!"Quote:
But people screaming "die and burn in hell you evil bitch" just not on.
:rimshot:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Hey, not so long ago you were lecturing me about ‘football tribalism’ and not understanding it when I disagreed with posters that described Sagna as a ‘cunt’. Now look. That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football? That’s why it’s a bit late to look for the moral high ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Wenger got a bit of abuse from some angry unruly fans, big deal, it comes with the territory everyone knows what football is like (doesn't make it right). He gets 8 million or so a year, for that I'd happily deal with a few angry words and insults from a few bystanders, he can go home to his mansion or go off on his personal yacht afterwards if he wants to.
Like I said if you shout sh*t like this at players don't turn round and have a fit when it happens to a manager.
People have suddenly applied different rules because it's Arsene Wenger, loads of managers in the past have had to deal with much worse and noone has said a peep, he doesn't help matters by patronising all an sundry and disregarding all other opinions as foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
No, No No!. You dont understand these people. Its not because hes old (he really isnt). Its not because hes a rubbish manager (He is). Its because its not nice and makes all of us look bad. Note especially the resort to calling them names like morons. People abusing people for abusing other people. :threaten:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Are you seriously comparing Wenger to a player who ditched the club so he could go and sit on a bench for more cash? Sagna IS a cunt. Even so, I probably won't follow him home tonight screaming at him. That's because I'm not a stupid cunt like the stupid cunts who were baying at the guy who didn't jump ship and has been with this club for years, turning it into one of the premier clubs in Europe. And you're comparing him to a greedy little mercenary shite? This isn't about moral high ground, it's about deeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It's actually nothing to do with who it was either.
I would explain but...meh.
That's exactly right. Different rules because it's Wenger. What bit about that don't you get? The Utd fans quite rightly called out the minority shitheaps who were slagging Fergie too. Different rules because it was Fergie and anyone who can't figure out why has been asleep for decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
They're called morons because that's the term from the dictionary that is most descriptive and befitting. If you act like a moron then you are likely a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I think you'll find they are acting more like typical fans. BTW your thesaurus has holes in itQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I think there are also different rules because of where it was. Inside a ground in the heat of the moment we can all get frustrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Getting to the train station to abuse them after the fact and shout at one of our players to leave... :doh:
I don't know how many went up to Stoke, a few thousand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
A handful went out of their way to shout abuse at our manager in public after the game.
Doesn't sound that typical.
Fergie had consistent success at Man U all the time he was there other than the 1st few years when he did get abuse I'm sure. Wenger on the other hand, we'll in 10 years he's managed one trophy, an FA Cup last season and considering how patronising and belittling he has been towards everyone, including the fans I don't feel the need to defend him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Like I said he got a few angry words from some unruly fans, happens all the time and I don't see the big deal, he gets paid handsomely to put up with sh*t like this, some fans will do this, it's part and parcel of the game.
and Wenger isn't moneygrabbing? Why is he getting 8 million a year and happy to get 4th then? If it wasn't about money, at least partially he'd be more committed to winning and risking his job by living outside his comfort zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
As it stands he doesn't take too many risks and keeps his 8 million a year job doing whatever he wants and answering to noone, all he has to put up with is a few choice words from a small minority, not too bad really.
IMO a man not motivated by money doesn't sit on his arse and accept 4th place, he does all he can to get 1st. There's no defending him anymore, he's part and parcel of the problem his goal is financial in all senses, he makes the club money and he gets his pay day for another year, everyone wins (except the fans who cough up all that money that pays him of course).
judge them in May. They may well be the majority by thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I doubt it. For one thing, things might actually look better in May. HCZ pointed out that 2 years ago we were in this exact same position at this stage, more or less, before we got it together, went on a run and finished 4th (and this year we don't really need to go on much of a run to do so as everyone else is so hopeless too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Secondly, I'd say after Stoke things were pretty much at their peak of frustration, and away fans tend to be the more vocal support. Even then only a tiny minority of knuckle draggers thought it would be OK to go to the station to shout abuse.
Like many have said before. Nothing wrong with voicing their displeasure at the way things are going. This is still a free country. There were police in proximity who say nothing wrong with their behaviour. Heroes the lot of themQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YOU'RE A C***"
isn't "voicing your displeasure"...
That might have gone over your head. I'm not comparing Wenger with Sagna. I'm comparing the reaction and that mob like mentality. Also, Wenger wasn't followed home the team just happened to be at the same train station as the away fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It's a thin line. It's disgusting behaviour now that Wenger's involved but it's encouraged with a former player, refs, rival teams..etc. That's why I'm not going OTT with this incident. If we had just taken a beating from City and the away fans had just saw Sagna boarding a train, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of reaction Wenger just received. And most people would be fine with that. Yes, he’s a City player now and is getting paid more but he was still a player that served us well. If that's how fans are conditioned to react when they feel someone has done wrong to the club, what do you expect when there are such strong feelings towards Wenger and the last 9 years? Respect goes out the window in football. It’s not right and it shouldn’t happen but all logic goes out of the window with some fans.Quote:
That same attitude you were aping a few months back has arrived at Wenger’s door step. What do you expect when its common to encourage this sort of thing in football?
It was wrong on every level. There's not a single legitimate argument that has been made that justifies the behaviour of those non-fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Well no the police aren't going to say anything other than that because their behaviour isn't illegal and despite my contempt for it I don't believe it should be
I don't believe my comparison of our form feeds into the "judge me in may" remark, my opinions are fluid but one thing I stand by is that I believe we will finish in the top four. However we can totally dismiss the notion that this is acceptable, I compared our season to two seasons ago to make the point that nothing ever changes, things may seem particularly bad but only to those with short memories. It's as bad as its always been, and if Wenger is saying judge us in May thinking that finishing in the top four will mollify those disillusioned with his stewardship then I think he may be surprised by how people do judge him in May.
But of course what he means is my employers will judge me in May, and they think top four is acceptable and that's what we will get.