Gerrard did when Torres was taken off for Liverpool away to Birmingham, two years ago. That ended up being Rafa's last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
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Gerrard did when Torres was taken off for Liverpool away to Birmingham, two years ago. That ended up being Rafa's last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
We are talking about the same Arshavin who made the final brilliant pass to Welbeck in the box?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
I agree my point was Png sayin that cheering would have still made AV run in the box, well if Theo came off for AA the same thing could have happend because andre would have done it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Yep, he could have done it even if we he went for theo.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPeck
Of course but the atmosphere wouldn't have been sucked out by one decision if that was the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Right. There is more to a substitution than just the clinical fact of technical reasons (even when they are right). The whole feel of the team and the stadium is important in the overall performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
Vermaelen was culpable for both goals too.
When your supposedly best players are missing sitters and showing defensive naivety, there's not much hope. And Song's been back on the strong stuff again recently, it seems.
Bloody hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
The substitution killed the momentum we had built up.
That we could have conceded a silly goal is niether here, nor there in this equation. We do it every week anyway.
We had them under pressure, and until he made that substitution, we looked the more likely to go on and win it.
RVP has to take some blame missing easy sitters as well, TV 5 deffo had a bad game, the midfield was diabolical tbh. Wenger can say utd were more mature then us but really it was a boring unmotivated performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
maybe it was me but i never enjoyed this game like i have done in the past, it jsut seemed like a top team vs a midtable one.
My arguement was not about the sub at all. I never said it never killed the momentum.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Arseblog is interesting this morning. He doesn't seem to be blaming the fans (why would he have a go at the readership) but he is 'saddened' by the biggest display of anger directed at the manager so far. I would've felt sympathy for Wenger because I respect him a lot too but his "18 year old for the captain of russia. Let's be serious. I've made 500 subs in the last 30 years" comment was annoying. Some humility in that and I think many fans would've woken up today feeling a bit sorry for Arsene. Or maybe that's just me.
Terrible substitution and understandable reaction from the fans, but a lot of boos where definitely directed at Arshavin. Where I sit (east lower) the frustrations and borderline hatred directed towards Arshavin has been reaching boiling point for a number of weeks now and it finally tipped yesterday. Plenty of boos were directed at Arshavin when he came on, along with other such helpful shouts such as “fuck off Arshavin” and “get that shit Russian off the pitch”…..before he’d actually got on the pitch!!
But yeah, I’m pretty sure we can all agree it was a terrible substitution!
And speaking of terrible substitutions; it was interesting that Park was brought on for his premier league debut yesterday. I wonder if he’ll actually play again in the league this season or if his one and only run out just happens to be against the most marketable team in Asia!
Mmm. The "18 year old for the captain of russia" thing was silly and a gross distortion of the facts. He substituted a young, confident player who was buzzing with a player who while doubtlessly talented is desperately lacking confidence right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
OMFGQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
The only thing I sympathise with him on is having no fullbacks, because that has totally killed us. Vermaelen and Djourou kept drifting inside and United predictably exploited that. The positioning is totally different for CBs and they are clearly not comfortable, no matter how versatile they're alleged to be.
Yeah I agree, and it's his "it shows I was right to start him" comment that really pisses me off. Sheer arrogance. And the fans have been calling for the Ox to start for fucking ages!Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
I agree. But also on Arseblog:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Quote:
Before the Fulham game Arsene said, “it would be stupid to lose points because we don’t have a left-back.” We’ve now lost 9 points since then and our lack of a recognised left-back and a right-back has been a larger factor in that than any misguided/unfortunately enforced substitution.
Why say that then. WUMger :bow:
We had a fullback yesterday. Sort of. Yennaris. Instead he started an absolute liability which he had to haul off at HT after some damage was already done. Djourou was getting ripped apart for the entire first half. And everyone saw it coming. Starting Miquel would've been better.
Its worth starting Yennaris now just so we can maintain a bit of positional sense on the right at least.
You've misunderstood me but feck it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
won't happenQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Such a difficult one to call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
He was good when he came on yesterday, and stemed the flow that was coming in waves from that side of the pitch.
But at that age, and with little experience, it's difficult to keep that consistency, and level of performance.
That said, Djourou is consistently shit there, so waddayado!? :lol:
Djourou is horrific.
He really Britta'd the right back position.
He should know the basics at least, enough to get by until Sagna is back anyway. Djourou has been caught out of position so many times. The Valencia goal was pathetic, Giggs is one of the best crossers in the league yet there was about 10 yards between him and Djourou, all the bloody time in the world to float in a cross. All Djourou could do was stand off him like a mongo with his arms behind his back. :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm
I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Djourou did actually have an injury, apparently.
Not to kick WUMger's cadaver further, but recent breakthroughs (Wilshere, Szczesny, Oxtail, Coquelin, perhaps Yennaris) have come through blunder and injuries rather than his faith in them. They've all proved to be successes so far (even those with limited play), so his seniority intransigence becomes even more baffling.
I know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I was shouting blue murder. "Get out to him!!".
He didn't listen :angry:
Maybe he's intimidated by the 'failed youth project' label that he sticks with experience more now. Maybe not. Maybe go fuck yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
But then he's been blamed in the past for not trusting to experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
We can't have it both ways.
But what is clear, is that the balance of the side is affected without natural fullbacks...and Yennaris certainly balanced it out a bit through coming on.
He should really start the next game.....but I expect something more like this:
Almunia
Djourou Henry Arshavin Chesney
Sol Campbell Ramsey Song Arteta Theo
RVP
Gev was missed yeserday tbh the front three should be Gev Rvp AOC
It's not even really an experience or youth thing. It's the strange, misguided belief that misfiring, under-achieving, bordering on completely worthless players like Arshavin, Walcott, Chamakh and Bendtner, Denilson and Diaby in past seasons will suddenly come good after dozens upon dozens of games offering nothing but harm to the team. Ju has showed more than a little bit sharpness in his brief forays out of hibernation, but has been dumped for others. Even Rosicky's been better than some of our midfielders recently, but the Automaton code must not be broken, so he only plays him in desperate measures. WUMger is too much in the wanting zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
Tbf if he was asked those questions this morning he have been alot calmer and maybe addmitted his mistake, however any manger probs would have reaced the way he did being asked straight after the game seeing how it all went down.
Wenger obviouly the occasion was too big for the lad and thought AA would deliver. He was wrong and addmitted it indirectly. All i can say this week is a big week for Arsene Wenger he will have tough choices to make.
Yep, whether he should resign or wait to be sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
PHW has already said it would be "nice" to qualify for the CL but it's okay if we don't because there's money in the kitty (that hasn't been spent on the players we desperately need). If the board is saying it's fine if we don't qualify then you can be sure there are no thoughts about sacking Wenger floating around. Will Wenger go? No, he's said time and again he honours his contracts. So He's here for another couple of years at least. The only thing the fans can do to change this is stop going to the games, stop buying shirts, stop subscribing to Sky, stop buying merchandise on the Internet, stop subscribing to Internet services such as ATVO. In doing this the club will be damaged and things could get even worse. So the fans are in a lose/ lose situation, powerless to influence what's going on without becoming part of the problem in the process. This is a fairly typical relationship with any monopoly, all the power is with those who take the money, realistically none with those who provide it. The board knows this and even if some fans say enough is enough there's a queue waiting to put down its money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Instead it might be better to sing "Sack the board" for the full 90 minutes at every home and away game. Because these men have already had their pay day and they don't really stand to gain much else beyond their undeserved salaries and bonuses, they may feel the hassle isn't worth it and decide to piss off. Then Kroenke would be forced to act. As it stands, in the absence of any tangible pressure he can sit back and execute whatever plan he's currently following.
The fans could also chant "Wenger Out" and again attempt to force the board's hand. But for all his recent fuck-ups, Wenger doesn't deserve that. Not after what he's done for this club. It would be pissing on our own history to treat Wenger this way, we should have some class even if those in charge won't reciprocate.
In the end though, I doubt anything will shift this lot until they are good and ready to go. It's a sad situation. We have people who don't care about this club in charge. If they did care they would have acted and halted our decline. All they've really been up to over the last few years is sorting out their own financial rewards and fighting with each other to grab as much as they can. There must be an end game though because if they persist the club will eventually be relegated and nobody wins. So they'll fuck off eventually and Kroenke will show his hand. If he's prepared to put up with what's going on at the moment then we can already guess what that hand will be - exploitation. Business is business and he's a businessman.
This is what happens when you let the "wrong sort" into sport.
Watching the game now. . .because I missed most last night and I wanted to see RvPs reaction to Oxos subbing. . .waiting for our goal first
If we lose RvP because of this I will go crazy I swear
You're already crazy, so what you mean is you'll do nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over
FFS Oxo off. . .what the hell. . .reaction of the crowd is quite amazing
There's that element of knowing Wenger would do it. It was mega frustrating to be able to predict it and then see it happen at precisely the wrong moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over
On the other hand, what a performance from this kid. He's going to be great for Utd or City.
That makes me feel sick to the stomach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Utd? Really?
We havent sold a player to them for ages.
You meant Barca or City surely
Actually. Just before the equaliser, they were readying Arshavin and Park I think. And then the equaliser came, and Nani went down (which actually caused us to lose a bit of concentration too), and then the substitution.
I think AW already had it in his mind. The decision to stop the Park swap at that point was made, but the Arshavin swap was still carried out.
Arrrrgh.
Timing was awful.
Dunno whether AOC was feeling a niggle or not. Guess only he can tell us that.