Wenger Slaughterhouse

There are many top players who don't seem to lack motivation despite being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds per week. If we have overweight players in the team then that's their individual responsibility.

And you seem to be advocating a return to a system where everyone has to fight to keep a roof over their heads and make ends meet, just so that the motivation for hard work and graft is stronger. That would be a regressive move, and would undermine all the advancements in labour rights over the last 2 centuries.

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Originally Posted by Joker

There are many top players who don't seem to lack motivation despite being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds per week. If we have overweight players in the team then that's their individual responsibility.

And you seem to be advocating a return to a system where everyone has to fight to keep a roof over their heads and make ends meet, just so that the motivation for hard work and graft is stronger. That would be a regressive move, and would undermine all the advancements in labour rights over the last 2 centuries.

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What?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

A bit one dimensional don't you think?

What kept Steve Jobs motivated? Same goes for guys like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates? Some of the richest men on the planet and they could have stopped working years ago. Same goes for some of the best muscians, actors and other succesful people under the spotlight?

The difference is, they get paid to do what they love doing and it's not just a job for them. That's the difference. If the average person had a choice about what they did for a living, they wouldn't be doing the normal every day shit.

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What?

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Originally Posted by GB.

I honestly don't see how you can compare those examples to a bunch of twenty something footballers who are rewarded before rather than after they have achieved the fruits of their labour.



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You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

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but the difference is, people like steve jobs etc spend years working up to the top, they dont have it on a plate by age 22, they know what hard work is and how long it took them to get to the top so keep motivation.

the 22 year olds who have taken 4 years getting paid millions dont know what hard work is because they havnt done it as long, its taken them two years instead of 20 years

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

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You could not be more wrong.

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Originally Posted by GB.

You could not be more wrong.

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Explain? Why hasn't guys like Ronaldo and Messi been ruined by the game when regarded as the best worldwide and paid more than the majority of their peers?

It's a sweeping generalisation NQ is making.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Explain? Why hasn't guys like Ronaldo and Messi been ruined by the game when regarded as the best worldwide and paid more than the majority of their peers?

It's a sweeping generalisation NQ is making.

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No it is not. You just seem to be unwilling or unable to grasp a simple concept. The concept being that there are a crapload of early twenty something footballers being paid vast sums as if they have achieved something before they ever have and the effect this has over an increasingly large number of them.

Comparing a group of twenty something overpaid kids to the sample of people who were rewarded as a result of achievement in your earlier post was ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by GB.

No it is not. You just seem to be unwilling or unable to grasp a simple concept. The concept being that there are a crapload of early twenty something footballers being paid vast sums as if they have achieved something before they ever have and the effect this has over an increasingly large number of them.

Comparing a group of twenty something overpaid kids to the sample of people who were rewarded as a result of achievement in your earlier post was ridiculous.

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It's a sweeping generalisation. What about the Man Utd players or Chelsea under Mouronho? We don't even have to look that far away. Jack Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenkinson...Will they stop working hard as they earn more?

Even the kids that are in our team on the lowest of salaries get paid a handsome sum compared to what the average joe earns. It's a bad comparison.

I understand what's being said and think it's simplistic. Put some of these players in different squads and you'd see a different outcome.

Edit: I'll elobarate on this point. If our young players were unmotivated to play they'd be just as happy to pick up a check as bench players. But as delusional as a guy like Bendtner is, he's not content as a bench player and wants first team football and the same goes for a lot of our young players. Also, I don't think money makes a difference to a players developement unless he's always been lazy and unmotivated. Bendtner will always be an average player regardless of what he's paid because he doesn't have the tools in his locker to be an elite player. Overpaying average players is a problem because they're just average. For example, Ramsey isn't a lazy player. He is just shit and whatever he's paid won't change a bit of difference to his level of play. I'm not saying it can't happen and players won't get complacent, but if hit that stage, they wouldn't make it on the pitch because these are the type of guys that won't turn up to training or always turn up late. Wenger doesn't reward players with games if they have that sort of bad attitude.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

It's a sweeping generalisation. What about the Man Utd players or Chelsea under Mouronho? We don't even have to look that far away. Jack Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenkinson...Will they stop working hard as they earn more?

Even the kids that are in our team on the lowest of salaries get paid a handsome sum compared to what the average joe earns. It's a bad comparison.

I understand what's being said and think it's simplistic. Put some of these players in different squads and you'd see a different outcome.

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You don't understand what's being said. Nobody said it's impossible to be motivated if you are well paid. I said it's a hell of a lot easier to be motivated when life is not served out on a plate. I'm talking about super high salary players not being able to pass a ball. Or put in a cross. What do they have to lose by not going the extra mile these days? Fuck all, they have already made it for life by the time they hit their twenties. The old argument of football being a short career with the earnings having to last a lifetime is dead and buried, some of them can set themselves up for life in a single season.

Why aren't they running through brick walls any more? Why do they feel it is acceptable to serve up shite? Okay, if the manager gets it wrong then that makes it harder. Of course it does. But the initial debate in this thread was discussing just the board and just the manager. I think players should get roped into the analysis too. Fucking Sagna - the guy can't cross a ball to save his life. WHY NOT? Why can't he do that? It's not acceptable. No manager and no board can legislate for that level of shitness in a key area of the game. And you could single out any of them and wonder the same.

Why does the team falter when the pressure is on? Simply because of the manager and that's it? Do you think he drills them in how to collapse? How to drop their heads when the battle heats up? Odd he didn't have that problem in years gone. We say that's because we had leaders on the pitch, players of character. So what happened to the leaders? What happened to the characters? Why have they disappeared? Because of Wenger? That's it? 100%? I don't think so.