Should we support Wenger or the Anti-Wengers ?

No one is perfect in this world including Arsene Wenger . It is easier to sit behind your computer to write and post anything to rubbish one of the best managers in the world of football than doing what he is doing and prove you can do better than him . Just an example , Alan Shearer was very critical of Newcastle managers . Telling people on Match of the Day program what they should have done . But offered the job he couldn't save the team from relegation . Arsene Wenger has been so far the best signing Arsenal has had . He has brought everything to the team . ironically , unkwown players he made superstars have had a go at him forgetting where they came from before Wenger gave them a chance .More importantly Wenger is very loyal to the club he loves . He is criticised for his football belief and philosophy ; notably : winning without spending big . Is anything wrong with that ? People in chatroom , so called journalists have written anything to tarnish the man reputation . Some have gone even far saying Wenger has lost the plot . What an insult for such a great man Arsenal have had the privilege to have ? Arsenal doesn't win trophies because Wenger refused to sign " marquee " players . They alway's claim . But if you look at the players he has bought after Vierra-era , they were good enough to win something . A team with Rosicky , Fabregas , Van Persie , Flamini , Adebayor , Hleb , Gallas ,Clichy , Sagna , Arshavin , Eduardo ..etc.. is good enough to win something . When players failed to win trophies they always blame the manager for not buying more " good" players . And yet we have seen many teams winning big things with just one or two good players inspiring the whole team . Why that have never cross some Arsenal players ? Van Persie is the last big name trying to use the excuse to avoid his responsibility of bringing a trophy to the Emirates . He had Song , Arteta , Walcott , Vermalean , Rosicky , Koscielny, Sczesny , Sagna ,Gervinho , Benayoun ..etc.. good and experience players to win a trophy . Arsene just adds Podolski and Giroud but people still blame Wenger instead of pointing their fingers to the real culprits : players themselves . remember I didn't mention Chamakh or Bendtner as some would have mocked their poor performance . Isn't time to give credit to wenger for the great job he is doing at Arsenal with minimum ressources in these hard conditions ? We can't discuss about what is said and done behind close doors because that would be simple speculation .

Needs paragraphs tbf.

Didn't read it

Support Arsenal tbh

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Originally Posted by Alpha

But if you look at the players he has bought after Vierra-era , they were good enough to win something . A team with Rosicky , Fabregas , Van Persie , Flamini , Adebayor , Hleb , Gallas ,Clichy , Sagna , Arshavin , Eduardo ..etc.. is good enough to win something . When players failed to win trophies they always blame the manager for not buying more " good" players .

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This is a key point - and one I've made a few times.

I think the only thing the manager should do is build a squad of players that are capable of winning trophies. Fill the team with quality players that could, over the course of 38 games, rack up 85-95 points. Then it is up to the players to 'earn' the trophies. Trophies mean nothing if you're merely a sideshow/afterthought in a title-winning squad. That team would've won the title without you. If you played a key part in that then you will be remembered for being the great player that won x,y,z. I hardly think Silvestre or John O'Shea will be thought of as particularly memorable players. (Well, in our case, Silvestre certainly will be memorable).

I think for the two seasons 2009-2011, talent-wise we were able to win the title or a trophy but the stumbling block was more a mental problem. Of course you portion a lot of the blame to the manager as well. But the players should also be blaming themselves if they're unhappy with not being the best. Nobody can go on the pitch and do their work for them.

Last season we weren't close to having a squad capable of challenging. Van Persie was at the required level but not many others were and I can understand him being pissed off at that. You can't tell him "You didn't win anything because you weren't good enough" - the rest of the squad/manager weren't good enough. That hasn't been the case all the time, however, and that can easily change with a couple of players that hit the ground running along with special talent like Oxlade/Wilshere 'doing a Rooney'.

I support Arsenal, IMO he's bad for Arsenal these days...he's incapable of building a team able to be successful.

There's always some sort of achilles heel, be it a bad defence, an inability to finish, mental fragility or injuries. He's not built one team capable of winning trophies since 2005, some say he has, I disagree (proofs in the pudding as they say) as everyone of his teams has been average at the back and success isn't achieved with a error prone defence.

It's not just about signings a team full of good players, you need players that gel together and make a great team, you also need to change tactics/formations according to what's put in front of you and you need to be able to react and make changes (and make sure you have some available) when things aren't going your way.

He fails miserably in many of these aspects, so IMO he needs to go then we can at last move on and look forward to a better future.

The players must shoulder some of the blame of course, but if you look at the truly great managers like Ferguson and Mourinho they make sure they players are motivated, hungry and work for the cause...if a player doesn't fit they sell him and find someone else. Whilst it's great to have players who are motivated/leaders and hungry it's more often than not, not the case...the motivation largely comes from the manager....I cite Mourinho again here and effect he instantly has on players when he moved to a new club...he makes them hungrier.

So IMO it's the manager that has to take much of the blame, he's the one that gets most of the praise when we win after all.

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Originally Posted by Syn

This is a key point - and one I've made a few times.

I think the only thing the manager should do is build a squad of players that are capable of winning trophies. Fill the team with quality players that could, over the course of 38 games, rack up 85-95 points. Then it is up to the players to 'earn' the trophies. Trophies mean nothing if you're merely a sideshow/afterthought in a title-winning squad. That team would've won the title without you. If you played a key part in that then you will be remembered for being the great player that won x,y,z. I hardly think Silvestre or John O'Shea will be thought of as particularly memorable players. (Well, in our case, Silvestre certainly will be memorable).

I think for the two seasons 2009-2011, talent-wise we were able to win the title or a trophy but the stumbling block was more a mental problem. Of course you portion a lot of the blame to the manager as well. But the players should also be blaming themselves if they're unhappy with not being the best. Nobody can go on the pitch and do their work for them.

Last season we weren't close to having a squad capable of challenging. Van Persie was at the required level but not many others were and I can understand him being pissed off at that. You can't tell him "You didn't win anything because you weren't good enough" - the rest of the squad/manager weren't good enough. That hasn't been the case all the time, however, and that can easily change with a couple of players that hit the ground running along with special talent like Oxlade/Wilshere 'doing a Rooney'.

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I totally agree with what you are saying here . but if you look at the team before Eduardo got injured you could see we were ready and very close to lift something but Gallas comedy at Birmingham just wrecked everything . The team collapse from the very top . I wouldn't blame Wenger for that . Critics were made Arsene shouldn't have made Gallas captain . How come before that comedy no one ever said Gallas was the wrong person to lead the team ?

Gallas was captain as we didn't really have any obvious candidates for the captaincy, we've not had an obvious captain for years as AW doesn't believe a captain is important....Roy Keane might disagree.

When the chips are done, the players with leadership are those that help guide you through it.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Needs paragraphs tbf.

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Thank you very much for your remark . I was using a friend laptop and He was in a hurry . But I am expecting you to be bigger than that .

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Originally Posted by Ach

Didn't read it

Support Arsenal tbh

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I couldn't make a comment if I didn't read anything .

Wenger's pros:

He is clearly committed to the club.
He has a 'draw' about him. Given his name, the man, the myth, more players would be compelled to join Arsenal.
He is, more often than not, articulate. Whenever he talks, you're hooked on almost every word.
He appears to be playing the role of 'middle manager' very well (player unrest, pressure from the board) where other well known managers, historically, wouldn't.

Wenger's cons:

His football philosophy shows no signs of being enhanced or even slightly tinkered with. We don't defend like a typical EPL side and neither do we attack set-pieces like one.
He has, for all his footballing vision, instilled a "loser's mentality" in his more recent sides. There is an evident feeling among some players that it's OK to lose, as long as they put in a good shift. There is no backlash from his teams after defeat, no 'game-raising' and no pace-setting.
His behaviour against opposing managers and officials during game-time can often distance him from these very people. I think referees would like, more often than not, to make a decision against Arsenal after witnessing Wenger's antics on the touchlines.

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Originally Posted by Syn

This is a key point - and one I've made a few times.

I think the only thing the manager should do is build a squad of players that are capable of winning trophies. Fill the team with quality players that could, over the course of 38 games, rack up 85-95 points. Then it is up to the players to 'earn' the trophies.

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I sincerely believe AW shares this exact same belief with you Syn. And this is why he has/will never be able to defend a trophy of worth. I struggle to believe real top coaches like Fergie, Mourinho or Capello could ever share such a philosophy. I mean how could a Montpellier, Porto (that CL year) or more appropriately let's say a Denmark or Greece ever had won anything if the main criterion was just to fill the team with quality players.

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Trophies mean nothing if you're merely a sideshow/afterthought in a title-winning squad.

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You could say this of the manger you describe above who is no better than a glorified casting director.

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That team would've won the title without you.

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And this is why I have always believed (until recent happenings anyway) that if we got a top coach immediately after AW and managed to keep his team together, we'd immediately go back to winning ways.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

You could say this of the manger you describe above who is no better than a glorified casting director.

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You nearly got there. The problem is the casting is very important part. Few would argue assembling a top squad is an insignificant part of a club winning a title. If you're not working with Man City/Chelsea money, it makes the manager's role very important.

That's Anti-Wenger! Rotate The Board!

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

I cite Mourinho again here and effect he instantly has on players when he moved to a new club...he makes them hungrier.

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I don't think Arshavin could have been any hungrier tbh.