Is it terminal?

We all know what our problems are, and most ask questions about the club's goals. It hurts seeing us consolidate our status as also rans each year, when we were with the best not so long ago, and this is why it seems so negative all the time now.

But I wonder whether a fresh way to look at it is whether we think this is a temporary, rather than terminal, decline? Are we gambling everything on rigorous application of FFP? Could we win a cup and turn it around? Do you still have hope that a change of heart/regime will get us back to the top of English football?

We're not in decline, we're stagnating.
I do think we're looking longer term and IMO being too conservative. On the other hand we have to live within our means, City and Chelsea can do what they like and FFP is unlikely to have much effect. It's very hard to compete in the current football climate. Can Wenger do it? Doesn't seem so. Can anyone? Highly doubtful IMO.
7 years without a trophy isn't good enough for the modern Arsenal. 3rd place behind a team who have spent a billion quid to buy the title and another with arguably the best manager of all time is hardly a disaster though.

We've stood still for years and if we keep doing that then we will eventually go backwards.

We finished 3rd in a car crash of a season so imagine how good we'd be if we gave a toss during a season. We'd win the league at a canter

Rubbish.

the club have been banking on ffp working, but they have to change that as this summer has given the final proof it will never work.

I must say, i am intrigued in what our excuse will be to being shit when FFP is in use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

the club have been banking on ffp working, but they have to change that as this summer has given the final proof it will never work.

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care to explain why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

care to explain why?

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well given there have been about four players signed this window, and half a billion quid spent on them says to me they dont give a shit.

you have city selling adesawhore to spurs, and then subsidising his wages. you ahve hazard going to chelsea, costing them 70 million including fee and wages, ibrahimovics and silvas deal, fees and wages together will cost 170 million for psg.

proof it wont work because no one gives a fuck about it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ach

I must say, i am intrigued in what our excuse will be to being shit when FFP is in use.

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Finishing 3rd behind the two Manchester sides, one of whom is only above us because they threw a billion quid around is 'shit'?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

well given there have been about four players signed this window, and half a billion quid spent on them says to me they dont give a shit.

you have city selling adesawhore to spurs, and then subsidising his wages. you ahve hazard going to chelsea, costing them 70 million including fee and wages, ibrahimovics and silvas deal, fees and wages together will cost 170 million for psg.

proof it wont work because no one gives a fuck about it

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if anything that proves it will work because teams are going for one last splash in the sea before the rules are tightened. why are chelsea all of a sudden going all out to replace an ageing team? because roman fears ffp will actually work. of course whether it does or not is something we have to wait and see.

theoretically speaking, it should put clubs like chelsea in the shitter. they can spend bucket loads on players (like they have been this summer) in order to clear the dead wood out, but what happens in 8-10 years time when hazard, marin, oscar all retire? they'll have the same problems. chelsea aren't exactly renowned for their academy so that puts even more pressure on them once ffp is implemented; at least teams like city have always had a good academy to rely on so can go down the path of investing in youth. chelsea haven't got the patience for that; over the past decade they've invested a shit load into the academy with little success. frank arnesen was supposed to be this holy revolutionary figure but he pissed off to hamburg last summer and gave up.

in 10 years time teams like chelsea (hopefully) won't be able to spend big money to replace an ageing squad, so hypothetically speaking, that should spell the end of them. obviously it's never as easy as that but one can hope.

the problem will be loopholes such as bumping up merchandise figures to compensate for higher spending, or abramovich sponsoring chelsea- a bit like man city and their 'lucrative' shirt deal last year; only the lucrative deal was sheikh mansour linking city up with his own company, effectively allowing unlimited investment into the club with little red tape preventing it.

this is where governing bodies must step in to prevent opportunistic behaviour.

It has seemed fairly clear that the limit of our ambitions now is to make money. Everything this Club has strived for over the past 10 years or so has been geared towards increasing the worth of shareholdings with the bare minimum of the Club's playing resources used to achieve that.

Consequently we are stagnating, but have been stagnating at a level easily acceptable for those running and owning the Club to profit from it at levels that probably haven't occurred anywhere else in the entire history of football in this country. Every resource at this Club has been employed to ensure that.

The best I can see us doing in future as things stand, is stagnating. But really, what do the Board care? They've taken the bulk of all they can take out of the Club and now it's Stan's turn.

Interesting points.

Re FFP - I think I'd agree that the financially doped clubs are hedging their bets - and that the model is to go for one last mega-splurge just in case.

As to whether we are stagnating or going backwards. From our league position we are stagnating, but given our patetrn of losing our best players (and consequently our ability to attract real quality), its hard to escape the feeling that we are in reality drifting backwards. Also, there used to be a fairly defined gap between top four and the rest - now Citeh and Spurs have gatecrashed the top 4 party, and it's more of a fight for us to stay there.

GB's point about equilibrium is very hard to argue with. All our transfer dealings (or lack of them) over the past 7 years point to the club insisting on the finest of balances between investment and CL football, and boy have we come near to fucking it up a couple of times. And this is simply not an approach that will deliver success.

And whatever his personal ambitions are (I would say that he remains driven to win things but misguided about his ability to do so, rather than having thrown in the towel), our manager has been both an asset and a liabilty in the club's situation. Asset because I doubt anyone could have kept us top 4 with the resources he has. Liabilty because paradoxically for someone so dedicated to being thrifty he has gambled too much of the club's income on rewarding sub-standard players.

A risky business. But I worry about the result. because reputations change, and our club's reputation is, and is not likely to become one of a team on the up.

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts or feelings about what I think is going on, are all just conjecture, and whenever I feel like we're going in the right direction, the club go and piss all over my flame.

The only thing that is abundently clear nowadays, is that football is completely and utterly crooked. The "game" is still there, but the tradition and passion has been lost. It's that horrible stench of "celebrity" and Disneyland that seems to fester around every turn.

If it wasn't for the attachment with the club, I would ignore it, like I ignore the X-factor and pretty much anything else cooked up to brainwash the public. It's like finding out you've been adopted. The love is still there, but you feel like nothing is real anymore.

We'll never know what's really going on. It's politics, media and money. There is very little "football" left in the whole thing.

I just hope that the likes of Wilshere, Frimpong, Chesney and some of the other young lads coming on, have a bit more loyalty in them, else it's all for bollocks anyway. They're the only ones who can stop the rot. The players. They have the ability, and they also hold pretty much all of the cards.

Wonderful post LDG, wonderful and sad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts or feelings about what I think is going on, are all just conjecture, and whenever I feel like we're going in the right direction, the club go and piss all over my flame.

The only thing that is abundently clear nowadays, is that football is completely and utterly crooked. The "game" is still there, but the tradition and passion has been lost. It's that horrible stench of "celebrity" and Disneyland that seems to fester around every turn.

If it wasn't for the attachment with the club, I would ignore it, like I ignore the X-factor and pretty much anything else cooked up to brainwash the public. It's like finding out you've been adopted. The love is still there, but you feel like nothing is real anymore.

We'll never know what's really going on. It's politics, media and money. There is very little "football" left in the whole thing.

I just hope that the likes of Wilshere, Frimpong, Chesney and some of the other young lads coming on, have a bit more loyalty in them, else it's all for bollocks anyway. They're the only ones who can stop the rot. The players. They have the ability, and they also hold pretty much all of the cards.

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:good: I very specifically follow Arsenal these days, not football. I couldn't give a monkeys about the hoopla surrounding the game these days, I pretty much never watch neutral games. I just don't care which billionaire's team beats which other billionaire's team. Probably should give it all up and follow Barnet. It'll be crap but at least it'll be a bit more real.

We're still in the top 4 and Wenger gets a lot of credit for that but in my opinion, we're in the top four because clubs like Spurs, Liverpool and Villa keep shooting themselves in the foot with management changes and internal problems. They can never sustain consistent run for the top four each season because they keep changing managers and that has kept us alive. Spurs are complete fools. If they'd have kept Harry, we'd have had a serious challenge on our hands next season because they'd all know what they're capable of. But now, firing Harry puts them back into a tranisition period and nobody knows exactly what to expect from them under under AVB.

The same goes for Liverpool. They have the resources to overtake us but keep appointing useless managers and going for wild cards. It also helps that they've had ownership squabbles. But I they showed common sense and appointed a manager that has some real credentials and has actually won a league title in a major European league, they would have been our main threats by now. Let's hope they keep doing what they're doing.

Villa was another team that looked to be challenging but they dropped off because of management and ownership changes as well. They looked like a team on the up at one point but have fallen off badly in recent seasons.

It's a good thing we've had stability here at Arsenal and it's helped to keep us afloat. But if we don't want to end up like the above mentioned teams then we seriously need to think about Wenger's replacement soon, make sure the new boss is given enough time to build a proper squad and also get our house in order regarding ownership. We really can't afford to have a moment of uncertainty in 2-3 years time because I can see Spurs and Liverpool finally overtaking us if they stick with their current managers and we continue to bleed players. Also, Wenger might not be here in the near future. This may be his last contract with us. We need to prepare because he'd be going when we're most vulnerable and while our rivals are on the rise.

As others have said, the sole purpose of Arsenal seems to be to maximise shareholder value, with the football side of things just a means to achieve this end. This is why the club is struggling to sell season tickets. Most football fans aren't coming to the match to see an investment, they're coming to watch the football team they've supported throughout their life, and getting patronising drivel from PHW about how we shouldn't complain because we haven't been relegated just shows how out of touch the board are. Then there's Stan's complete silence and hands off approach which suggests someone uninterested in the club and treating it just as another investment. If we can get some people in who are football men into the board, maybe the decline is not terminal. However, the way shares are distributed is such a closed shop, I think this will be next to impossible unless Usmanov takes over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts or feelings about what I think is going on, are all just conjecture, and whenever I feel like we're going in the right direction, the club go and piss all over my flame.

The only thing that is abundently clear nowadays, is that football is completely and utterly crooked. The "game" is still there, but the tradition and passion has been lost. It's that horrible stench of "celebrity" and Disneyland that seems to fester around every turn.

If it wasn't for the attachment with the club, I would ignore it, like I ignore the X-factor and pretty much anything else cooked up to brainwash the public. It's like finding out you've been adopted. The love is still there, but you feel like nothing is real anymore.

We'll never know what's really going on. It's politics, media and money. There is very little "football" left in the whole thing.

I just hope that the likes of Wilshere, Frimpong, Chesney and some of the other young lads coming on, have a bit more loyalty in them, else it's all for bollocks anyway. They're the only ones who can stop the rot. The players. They have the ability, and they also hold pretty much all of the cards.

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A bit strong to lay this all at the players feet. This is something for UEFA, Fifa and the clubs to sort out. They're the biggest whores in the game and most corrupt as seen by the way Fifa reps whore themselves out for World Cup bids. Qatar is a key example. It's not even fucking possible to host a World Cup there but Fifa went with it anyway because money talks.

Our club...look how they've all sold out to Stan. The way we're going after the big marketing bucks. The clubs have to get their priorities straight too. How the hell have they put the burden on the fans to financially sustain our club while pocketing record profits through shares? Why is a wage structure in place for the players and the burdens on them to accept less and go without accolades while they're all enjoying the gravy train? I include Wenger on that as well because he preaches equality and gives this false notion of a football eutopia while watching what goes on at the top level and saying nothing. The players are powerless to change things and there are people and organisations in better positions best suited to address the problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

A bit strong to lay this all at the players feet. This is something for UEFA, Fifa and the clubs to sort out. They're the biggest whores in the game and most corrupt as seen by the way Fifa reps whore themselves out for World Cup bids. Qatar is a key example. It's not even fucking possible to host a World Cup there but Fifa went with it anyway because money talks.

Our club...look how they've all sold out to Stan. The way we're going after the big marketing bucks. The clubs have to get their priorities straight too. How the hell have they put the burden on the fans to financially sustain our club while pocketing record profits through shares? Why is a wage structure in place for the players and the burdens on them to accept less and go without accolades while they're all enjoying the gravy train? I include Wenger on that as well because he preaches equality and gives this false notion of a football eutopia while watching what goes on at the top level and saying nothing. The players are powerless to change things and there are people and organisations in better positions best suited to address the problem.

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Hold up son.

I know you like disagreeing with me, but read what I've said will you.

My hope rests with our young players is all I'm saying. They're the only ones I believe in, and HOPE can move this club on. By not selling out, and playing football because they want to play football. I believe in their talent, and I believe it can form part of a winning team.

Purely and simply because I don't trust any other c.u.n.t at this club to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Hold up son.

I know you like disagreeing with me, but read what I've said will you.

My hope rests with our young players is all I'm saying. They're the only ones I believe in, and HOPE can move this club on. By not selling out, and playing football because they want to play football. I believe in their talent, and I believe it can form part of a winning team.

Purely and simply because I don't trust any other c.u.n.t at this club to do it.

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I've read your post and that part about showing loyalty is the sticking point. Why would our young players show loyalty when they're in this crooked system and none of the main decision makers have an ounce of loyalty to the game? I hear what you're saying but the burden IMO is always on the players. The top men have to lead by example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I've read your post and that part about showing loyalty is the sticking point. Why would our young players show loyalty when they're in this crooked system and none of the main decision makers have an ounce of loyalty to the game? I hear what you're saying but the burden IMO is always on the players. The top men have to lead by example.

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They do have quite a bit of pull power tbf. You only have to look at Ade, Rooney, Ronaldo, Torres, Nasri etc etc to see how they can engineer moves themselves.

But that's still not my point.

This was Arsenal specific, as the OP was being Arsenal specific. It's about the clubs goals. And what I'm saying, is that our players (in the short term at least) are the only ones that can, IMO, influence how we move on over the next few years. Because it's as clear as mud, nothing else is going to change.

That's still too much of a burden on the players and it's about time the focus went on the organisations. It's like constantly blaming refs for making wrong decisions while idiots in Uefa like Platini have the power to introduce technology to help progression but refuse to.

The focus has to go on the Board and manager. As I said in a previous post, what did Gazidsi and Wenger say to RVP in that meeting for him to believe that we're going in the wrong direction? Why isn't anyone concerned with that?

Of course we're concerned with that! OR. I just don't give a fuck anymore, because I'm sick of the politics (see my original post), and all I'm concerned with now, is seeing football.

Like I said in my original post, I want to see the players going out there and playing like their lives depended on it, because they love the game, and they love the club. THAT'S ALL I WANT. And it's not too much to fucking ask, because they earn enough, and it comes out of my fucking pocket!!

Yet I still have hope and faith in Wilshere and Frimpong and Chezzer (like I said in my original post) because I have to believe that something can change at this club, because (ARSENAL SPECIFIC) nothing else is going to change over the next few years (as I said in my second post, after my original post).


/GRRRRRRR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts or feelings about what I think is going on, are all just conjecture, and whenever I feel like we're going in the right direction, the club go and piss all over my flame.

The only thing that is abundently clear nowadays, is that football is completely and utterly crooked. The "game" is still there, but the tradition and passion has been lost. It's that horrible stench of "celebrity" and Disneyland that seems to fester around every turn.

If it wasn't for the attachment with the club, I would ignore it, like I ignore the X-factor and pretty much anything else cooked up to brainwash the public. It's like finding out you've been adopted. The love is still there, but you feel like nothing is real anymore.

We'll never know what's really going on. It's politics, media and money. There is very little "football" left in the whole thing.

I just hope that the likes of Wilshere, Frimpong, Chesney and some of the other young lads coming on, have a bit more loyalty in them, else it's all for bollocks anyway. They're the only ones who can stop the rot. The players. They have the ability, and they also hold pretty much all of the cards.

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You know - this is what I beat myself up most about. I agree 100% with you - and its really sad that these days, unless you follow the natural resources billions then you are almost bound to decline as a football club.

But would we feel the same feelings of depression if Kroenke wasn't such a tight-fisted ****? Its easy to take the moral ground and say yes - but the problem is that ultimately football is about what happens for 90 minutes on the pitch, and when you have the best striker in the country scoring the winning goal over your main rivals in the 90th minute the last thing on your mind is going to be how you reached that point. I like to think that I care about morals/ethics, but when we were winning titles 10 years ago, I wasn't thinking about the finacial constraints on Coventry or Southampton.

Its the same in football as it is becoming in any other walk of life. A melting pot of avarice; short term-ism and lack of real values. Are the players themselves ultimately responsible? Most of them are thick as pig shit and morally stunted. I blame the money men more. The agents; the lawyers; the sell out shareholders...and to an extent we fans are to blame as well. We keep buying the over-priced tickets to see something more resembling WWF by the day, and lapping up the football celebrity gossip on the back pages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

You know - this is what I beat myself up most about. I agree 100% with you - and its really sad that these days, unless you follow the natural resources billions then you are almost bound to decline as a football club.

But would we feel the same feelings of depression if Kroenke wasn't such a tight-fisted ****? Its easy to take the moral ground and say yes - but the problem is that ultimately football is about what happens for 90 minutes on the pitch, and when you have the best striker in the country scoring the winning goal over your main rivals in the 90th minute the last thing on your mind is going to be how you reached that point. I like to think that I care about morals/ethics, but when we were winning titles 10 years ago, I wasn't thinking about the finacial constraints on Coventry or Southampton.

Its the same in football as it is becoming in any other walk of life. A melting pot of avarice; short term-ism and lack of real values. Are the players themselves ultimately responsible? Most of them are thick as pig shit and morally stunted. I blame the money men more. The agents; the lawyers; the sell out shareholders...and to an extent we fans are to blame as well. We keep buying the over-priced tickets to see something more resembling WWF by the day, and lapping up the football celebrity gossip on the back pages.

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For me it just comes down to who's kicking the ball on the pitch at the end of it I guess. That's what it's all about.

Of course I blame the money men for ruining the game.

But like you say, regardless of money, if Jack smacks one home against Spurs on 90 mins, that's all I give a fuck about....and it's why I have my hope invested in the players.

The future i think will very much resemble the present, if nothing changes. If the management of the team thinks that striving to win things is either unattainable and/or uneconomic, then who among the players is going to hang around for the long term. Its a charade. The kids of today will be the RVPs of tommorrow. The manager`s ONLY focus must be to win, it is the constant broadening of Wengers portfolio to include even the napkins used at the upper level diner, that has left us in limbo. True we cannot pay the astronomic wages paid by City and Real Madrid, and now PSG, but this cannot be our barometer, nor our crutch to explain failure. If we were winning titles fewer players would leave. No player is worth more than 120k per week, but we pay our manager 140k. How so, Only at RM does the manager earn more than the players and they are a basketcase organisation. We need to get our priorities right, balance our salaries better across the playing staff. and then change the mentality on the pitch. If we were really playing well for 80-90% of the season and not getting regularly dicked by the likes of Swansea and Wigan, amidst beating ManCity and Lpool, we would not be in such a sorry state.

The solutions to our woes lie within our means to rectify. We simply do not seem willing to do it.

May I also reiterate that we must have the worst medical staff in all professional sport. Our track record of rehabilitating players is atrocious. just look at it, Diaby, never the same, Eduardo, never the same, Ramsey, hobbled for life, Wilshire, gone for almost 18 months. WTF is going on?, either physically or psychologically our players never seem to come back whole. The hamstring troubles that dogged Fabregas for his last 2 seasons here have not reoccurred at Barca. Look at the terrible injuries suffered by Jibril Cisse and Alan Smith, they still made full recoveries and seem to have completely put them behind in their careers, Some people need sacking,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

The future i think will very much resemble the present, if nothing changes. If the management of the team thinks that striving to win things is either unattainable and/or uneconomic, then who among the players is going to hang around for the long term. Its a charade. The kids of today will be the RVPs of tommorrow. The manager`s ONLY focus must be to win, it is the constant broadening of Wengers portfolio to include even the napkins used at the upper level diner, that has left us in limbo. True we cannot pay the astronomic wages paid by City and Real Madrid, and now PSG, but this cannot be our barometer, nor our crutch to explain failure. If we were winning titles fewer players would leave. No player is worth more than 120k per week, but we pay our manager 140k. How so, Only at RM does the manager earn more than the players and they are a basketcase organisation. We need to get our priorities right, balance our salaries better across the playing staff. and then change the mentality on the pitch. If we were really playing well for 80-90% of the season and not getting regularly dicked by the likes of Swansea and Wigan, amidst beating ManCity and Lpool, we would not be in such a sorry state.

The solutions to our woes lie within our means to rectify. We simply do not seem willing to do it.

May I also reiterate that we must have the worst medical staff in all professional sport. Our track record of rehabilitating players is atrocious. just look at it, Diaby, never the same, Eduardo, never the same, Ramsey, hobbled for life, Wilshire, gone for almost 18 months. WTF is going on?, either physically or psychologically our players never seem to come back whole. The hamstring troubles that dogged Fabregas for his last 2 seasons here have not reoccurred at Barca. Look at the terrible injuries suffered by Jibril Cisse and Alan Smith, they still made full recoveries and seem to have completely put them behind in their careers, Some people need sacking,

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Aye - the eternal quandry. The only way to stop the second main cause of our problems (after not winning silverware) - namely spunking far to much on gambles/substandard players, we would have to get rid of AW - 'cos he ain't going to change/be able to change things with the time he has left. But in order to do so means throwing the baby our with the bathwater, and getting rid of the only manager around likely to be able to keep us in the CL with the resoources we are willing to commit to the cause.

And re injuries - I am beginning to think that its not so much the medical staff, but the regime in which they operate. Our players are overplayed, and over-trained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

You know - this is what I beat myself up most about. I agree 100% with you - and its really sad that these days, unless you follow the natural resources billions then you are almost bound to decline as a football club.

But would we feel the same feelings of depression if Kroenke wasn't such a tight-fisted ****? Its easy to take the moral ground and say yes - but the problem is that ultimately football is about what happens for 90 minutes on the pitch, and when you have the best striker in the country scoring the winning goal over your main rivals in the 90th minute the last thing on your mind is going to be how you reached that point. I like to think that I care about morals/ethics, but when we were winning titles 10 years ago, I wasn't thinking about the finacial constraints on Coventry or Southampton.

Its the same in football as it is becoming in any other walk of life. A melting pot of avarice; short term-ism and lack of real values. Are the players themselves ultimately responsible? Most of them are thick as pig shit and morally stunted. I blame the money men more. The agents; the lawyers; the sell out shareholders...and to an extent we fans are to blame as well. We keep buying the over-priced tickets to see something more resembling WWF by the day, and lapping up the football celebrity gossip on the back pages.

---

That's where I stand on the situation and as long as us fans keep looking in the wrong direction and blaming the players, our pockets will continue to get pinched. The burden is all on the players and they're paid well, but they're pawns in this. Or small pieces at least.

Gossip rags like The Sun are all too concerned about the lifestyle players lead and the spotlight is firmly on them when it comes to football. When it all goes wrong it falls on their shoulders and fans get on their back. What about the faceless agents that are ruining the game. What about the crooked owners and why aren't journalists doing more to do look into the background of the people that run our clubs and what they do to make money? We've seen how bloody crooked Fifa are and more should be done to clean up the game and get it back to being about the grassroots. I've grown tired of blaming the players all the time. Would anyone or us here stay loyal to company so tight fisted and crooked? It doesn't happen, even if you love what you do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's where I stand on the situation and as long as us fans keep looking in the wrong direction and blaming the players, our pockets will continue to get pinched. The burden is all on the players and they're paid well, but they're pawns in this. Or small pieces at least.

Gossip rags like The Sun are all too concerned about the lifestyle players lead and the spotlight is firmly on them when it comes to football. When it all goes wrong it falls on their shoulders and fans get on their back. What about the faceless agents that are ruining the game. What about the crooked owners and why aren't journalists doing more to do look into the background of the people that run our clubs and what they do to make money? We've seen how bloody crooked Fifa are and more should be done to clean up the game and get it back to being about the grassroots. I've grown tired of blaming the players all the time. Would anyone or us here stay loyal to company so tight fisted and crooked? It doesn't happen, even if you love what you do.

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I guess our press had a go when we didn't land the World Cup and look how that ended up? Money will always win in the end because human beings are by their very nature venal, self-serving and greedy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

I guess our press had a go when we didn't land the World Cup and look how that ended up? Money will always win in the end because human beings are by their very nature venal, self-serving and greedy...

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:gp:

Maybe the other thing to note is how much the club are putting on negotiating lucrative sponsorship deals after 2014, when some of the front-loaded ones to pay for the stadium are apparently up. That'd have to give us more freedom, Arsenal are a way behind even non-CL clubs in this regard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's still too much of a burden on the players and it's about time the focus went on the organisations. It's like constantly blaming refs for making wrong decisions while idiots in Uefa like Platini have the power to introduce technology to help progression but refuse to.

The focus has to go on the Board and manager. As I said in a previous post, what did Gazidsi and Wenger say to RVP in that meeting for him to believe that we're going in the wrong direction? Why isn't anyone concerned with that?

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I did notice what RvP said, but the problem is that he has just said that they want to go in different directions without saying what those directions are. Clearly, he wants the club to get the players needed to win trophies right now. It could be that Wenger/Gazidis want to do it too but over a longer period or with less financial exposure. Maybe they are waiting for Fair Play to kill the Citehs and Chavs (which would work if FIFA and UEFA enforce it properly - they won't, of course). But some statement other than the usual vague stuff would help here.

Having said that, regardless of Wenger's or Gazidis' intent on that way, what I want to see is a team who REALLY show spirit each game by going for it rather than sitting back with tippy-tappy and not shooting. A bit more grind and drive and a bit less pissing about would make the difference in terms of match enjoyment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coney

I did notice what RvP said, but the problem is that he has just said that they want to go in different directions without saying what those directions are. Clearly, he wants the club to get the players needed to win trophies right now. It could be that Wenger/Gazidis want to do it too but over a longer period or with less financial exposure. Maybe they are waiting for Fair Play to kill the Citehs and Chavs (which would work if FIFA and UEFA enforce it properly - they won't, of course). But some statement other than the usual vague stuff would help here.

Having said that, regardless of Wenger's or Gazidis' intent on that way, what I want to see is a team who REALLY show spirit each game by going for it rather than sitting back with tippy-tappy and not shooting. A bit more grind and drive and a bit less pissing about would make the difference in terms of match enjoyment.

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The sad thing is that for the first time in years the team were showing some spirit last season - with RVP as a captain. This seemed to be different than in Cesc's last 2 years when it was obvious that he wanted away. Now RVP's off too - I expect the spirit to suffer again.

We showed some great spirit during the season but it also started to trail off towards the end and the frustration and fatigue started to get to the fans and players. I still think of the day the crowd turned on Wenger for taking off the Ox and RVP throwing his hands up in disbelief. Once again, I can't understand why we didn't strengthen in January? Instead of loaning out Arshavin, we should have signed someone that could have given us that extra boost. Henry was great for us while he was here, but he was only here for a very short period. That one move may have changed the way things panned out for us this summer.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

We showed some great spirit during the season but it also started to trail off towards the end and the frustration and fatigue started to get to the fans and players. I still think of the day the crowd turned on Wenger for taking off the Ox and RVP throwing his hands up in disbelief. Once again, I can't understand why we didn't strengthen in January? Instead of loaning out Arshavin, we should have signed someone that could have given us that extra boost. Henry was great for us while he was here, but he was only here for a very short period. That one move may have changed the way things panned out for us this summer.

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True. True.

Thats always narks me actually. The January transfer period seems to be Wengers ultimate WUM card.

There are some things about the way Arsenal are run. I honestly think Wenger's ability to get us finishing top 4 every year is borderline genius - witness how many other managers have spent big money and failed - but some of the decisions not to strengthen when it's so painfully obvious we need to are baffling.
I just refuse to believe that Wenger, whatever his rhetoric, can't see our weaknesses. The idea that a man of his ability can't see what every fan and pundit can is ludicrous. So what's going on?

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Letters

There are some things about the way Arsenal are run. I honestly think Wenger's ability to get us finishing top 4 every year is borderline genius

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No. It's only because other clubs have failed. PnG said so.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

No. It's only because other clubs have failed. PnG said so.

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The only thing that has failed is your face.

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Originally Posted by Letters

There are some things about the way Arsenal are run. I honestly think Wenger's ability to get us finishing top 4 every year is borderline genius - witness how many other managers have spent big money and failed - but some of the decisions not to strengthen when it's so painfully obvious we need to are baffling.
I just refuse to believe that Wenger, whatever his rhetoric, can't see our weaknesses. The idea that a man of his ability can't see what every fan and pundit can is ludicrous. So what's going on?

:shrug:

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I agree with this. And the only conclusion to draw is that both AW and the board understand the situation, but are playing the long game and had concluded that losing players to mega bucks clubs is the only way to roll at present, and that we are deliberately treading water until a)FFP rules come in and b) we renegotiate our sponsorship deals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

There are some things about the way Arsenal are run. I honestly think Wenger's ability to get us finishing top 4 every year is borderline genius - witness how many other managers have spent big money and failed - but some of the decisions not to strengthen when it's so painfully obvious we need to are baffling.
I just refuse to believe that Wenger, whatever his rhetoric, can't see our weaknesses. The idea that a man of his ability can't see what every fan and pundit can is ludicrous. So what's going on?

:shrug:

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I don't know.

But I'll tell you something for nothing.

Wenger is not a bumbling idiot.