care to explain why?Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
care to explain why?
well given there have been about four players signed this window, and half a billion quid spent on them says to me they dont give a shit.
you have city selling adesawhore to spurs, and then subsidising his wages. you ahve hazard going to chelsea, costing them 70 million including fee and wages, ibrahimovics and silvas deal, fees and wages together will cost 170 million for psg.
proof it wont work because no one gives a fuck about it
if anything that proves it will work because teams are going for one last splash in the sea before the rules are tightened. why are chelsea all of a sudden going all out to replace an ageing team? because roman fears ffp will actually work. of course whether it does or not is something we have to wait and see.
theoretically speaking, it should put clubs like chelsea in the shitter. they can spend bucket loads on players (like they have been this summer) in order to clear the dead wood out, but what happens in 8-10 years time when hazard, marin, oscar all retire? they'll have the same problems. chelsea aren't exactly renowned for their academy so that puts even more pressure on them once ffp is implemented; at least teams like city have always had a good academy to rely on so can go down the path of investing in youth. chelsea haven't got the patience for that; over the past decade they've invested a shit load into the academy with little success. frank arnesen was supposed to be this holy revolutionary figure but he pissed off to hamburg last summer and gave up.
in 10 years time teams like chelsea (hopefully) won't be able to spend big money to replace an ageing squad, so hypothetically speaking, that should spell the end of them. obviously it's never as easy as that but one can hope.
the problem will be loopholes such as bumping up merchandise figures to compensate for higher spending, or abramovich sponsoring chelsea- a bit like man city and their 'lucrative' shirt deal last year; only the lucrative deal was sheikh mansour linking city up with his own company, effectively allowing unlimited investment into the club with little red tape preventing it.
this is where governing bodies must step in to prevent opportunistic behaviour.
It has seemed fairly clear that the limit of our ambitions now is to make money. Everything this Club has strived for over the past 10 years or so has been geared towards increasing the worth of shareholdings with the bare minimum of the Club's playing resources used to achieve that.
Consequently we are stagnating, but have been stagnating at a level easily acceptable for those running and owning the Club to profit from it at levels that probably haven't occurred anywhere else in the entire history of football in this country. Every resource at this Club has been employed to ensure that.
The best I can see us doing in future as things stand, is stagnating. But really, what do the Board care? They've taken the bulk of all they can take out of the Club and now it's Stan's turn.
Interesting points.
Re FFP - I think I'd agree that the financially doped clubs are hedging their bets - and that the model is to go for one last mega-splurge just in case.
As to whether we are stagnating or going backwards. From our league position we are stagnating, but given our patetrn of losing our best players (and consequently our ability to attract real quality), its hard to escape the feeling that we are in reality drifting backwards. Also, there used to be a fairly defined gap between top four and the rest - now Citeh and Spurs have gatecrashed the top 4 party, and it's more of a fight for us to stay there.
GB's point about equilibrium is very hard to argue with. All our transfer dealings (or lack of them) over the past 7 years point to the club insisting on the finest of balances between investment and CL football, and boy have we come near to fucking it up a couple of times. And this is simply not an approach that will deliver success.
And whatever his personal ambitions are (I would say that he remains driven to win things but misguided about his ability to do so, rather than having thrown in the towel), our manager has been both an asset and a liabilty in the club's situation. Asset because I doubt anyone could have kept us top 4 with the resources he has. Liabilty because paradoxically for someone so dedicated to being thrifty he has gambled too much of the club's income on rewarding sub-standard players.
A risky business. But I worry about the result. because reputations change, and our club's reputation is, and is not likely to become one of a team on the up.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts or feelings about what I think is going on, are all just conjecture, and whenever I feel like we're going in the right direction, the club go and piss all over my flame.
The only thing that is abundently clear nowadays, is that football is completely and utterly crooked. The "game" is still there, but the tradition and passion has been lost. It's that horrible stench of "celebrity" and Disneyland that seems to fester around every turn.
If it wasn't for the attachment with the club, I would ignore it, like I ignore the X-factor and pretty much anything else cooked up to brainwash the public. It's like finding out you've been adopted. The love is still there, but you feel like nothing is real anymore.
We'll never know what's really going on. It's politics, media and money. There is very little "football" left in the whole thing.
I just hope that the likes of Wilshere, Frimpong, Chesney and some of the other young lads coming on, have a bit more loyalty in them, else it's all for bollocks anyway. They're the only ones who can stop the rot. The players. They have the ability, and they also hold pretty much all of the cards.
It's better to burn out, than to fade away.
I very specifically follow Arsenal these days, not football. I couldn't give a monkeys about the hoopla surrounding the game these days, I pretty much never watch neutral games. I just don't care which billionaire's team beats which other billionaire's team. Probably should give it all up and follow Barnet. It'll be crap but at least it'll be a bit more real.
A bit strong to lay this all at the players feet. This is something for UEFA, Fifa and the clubs to sort out. They're the biggest whores in the game and most corrupt as seen by the way Fifa reps whore themselves out for World Cup bids. Qatar is a key example. It's not even fucking possible to host a World Cup there but Fifa went with it anyway because money talks.
Our club...look how they've all sold out to Stan. The way we're going after the big marketing bucks. The clubs have to get their priorities straight too. How the hell have they put the burden on the fans to financially sustain our club while pocketing record profits through shares? Why is a wage structure in place for the players and the burdens on them to accept less and go without accolades while they're all enjoying the gravy train? I include Wenger on that as well because he preaches equality and gives this false notion of a football eutopia while watching what goes on at the top level and saying nothing. The players are powerless to change things and there are people and organisations in better positions best suited to address the problem.
You know - this is what I beat myself up most about. I agree 100% with you - and its really sad that these days, unless you follow the natural resources billions then you are almost bound to decline as a football club.
But would we feel the same feelings of depression if Kroenke wasn't such a tight-fisted ****? Its easy to take the moral ground and say yes - but the problem is that ultimately football is about what happens for 90 minutes on the pitch, and when you have the best striker in the country scoring the winning goal over your main rivals in the 90th minute the last thing on your mind is going to be how you reached that point. I like to think that I care about morals/ethics, but when we were winning titles 10 years ago, I wasn't thinking about the finacial constraints on Coventry or Southampton.
Its the same in football as it is becoming in any other walk of life. A melting pot of avarice; short term-ism and lack of real values. Are the players themselves ultimately responsible? Most of them are thick as pig shit and morally stunted. I blame the money men more. The agents; the lawyers; the sell out shareholders...and to an extent we fans are to blame as well. We keep buying the over-priced tickets to see something more resembling WWF by the day, and lapping up the football celebrity gossip on the back pages.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
We're still in the top 4 and Wenger gets a lot of credit for that but in my opinion, we're in the top four because clubs like Spurs, Liverpool and Villa keep shooting themselves in the foot with management changes and internal problems. They can never sustain consistent run for the top four each season because they keep changing managers and that has kept us alive. Spurs are complete fools. If they'd have kept Harry, we'd have had a serious challenge on our hands next season because they'd all know what they're capable of. But now, firing Harry puts them back into a tranisition period and nobody knows exactly what to expect from them under under AVB.
The same goes for Liverpool. They have the resources to overtake us but keep appointing useless managers and going for wild cards. It also helps that they've had ownership squabbles. But I they showed common sense and appointed a manager that has some real credentials and has actually won a league title in a major European league, they would have been our main threats by now. Let's hope they keep doing what they're doing.
Villa was another team that looked to be challenging but they dropped off because of management and ownership changes as well. They looked like a team on the up at one point but have fallen off badly in recent seasons.
It's a good thing we've had stability here at Arsenal and it's helped to keep us afloat. But if we don't want to end up like the above mentioned teams then we seriously need to think about Wenger's replacement soon, make sure the new boss is given enough time to build a proper squad and also get our house in order regarding ownership. We really can't afford to have a moment of uncertainty in 2-3 years time because I can see Spurs and Liverpool finally overtaking us if they stick with their current managers and we continue to bleed players. Also, Wenger might not be here in the near future. This may be his last contract with us. We need to prepare because he'd be going when we're most vulnerable and while our rivals are on the rise.
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