Crazy money starts

We have all expressed out frustration at Arsenal not buying this player or paying this much for that player; and there is the thread about requiring a sugar daddy in order to compete.

However, there are two transfers that exemplify everything that is wrong with the system in England and that show the problems faced by Arsenal.

Andy Carroll for £35 million: that deal ranks as the 8th most expensive transfer of all time. It was higher than the fee Barcelona paid for David Villa, a player who (at the time) had 9 consecutive seasons of 20 goals or more, and had won the European Championship and World Cup. Carroll has never scored 20 goals in a season. [When Carroll's age, Villa had already had two seasons of 20 goals for Sporting Gijon.]

Jordan Henderson for £20 million: He is just 20 and has had one good season.

I have stated before that Arsenal need to make a statement signing, and will continue to say that. However, I do want them to be judicious with the signings.

I forgot to add:

Phil Jones for £16 million: A 19-year-old!!!!!!!!!!!

Newcastle knew Liverpool had 50m coming in for Torres, so they milked the Carroll Transfer, under normal circumstances I don't think he would have gone for that much.

But yeah we can't compete on the English tax level that's for sure.

when the bubble bursts in the game, and of course it will, it will be amazing to see what happens to every club.

just a matter of how far off it is

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

when the bubble bursts in the game, and of course it will, it will be amazing to see what happens to every club.

just a matter of how far off it is

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Well when that time comes, you can bet we will still be there bottling it as usual.

wouldn't that be a good thing in that context, surely it would mean the reverse to everyone else?

Of course £35m for Carroll is crazy money, but there were many factors, not least Torres going for £50m.

We don't even know the Henderson fee yet so I won't speculate. Especially if NGog goes the other way.

Interesting that SSN emphasising Henderson's rumoured price, and yet when United do the same it's suddenly a "highly rated English defender".

We don't have the golden carrot that is the Champions League anymore, so we have to pay over the odds in order to get the players that could easily phone up United and get a better deal in seconds.
I'd rather the pay over the odds on a player the managerial team wants, than settling for the seventh choice because they're cheap.

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Originally Posted by NGog Is Going

Of course £35m for Carroll is crazy money, but there were many factors, not least Torres going for £50m.

We don't even know the Henderson fee yet so I won't speculate. Especially if NGog goes the other way.

Interesting that SSN emphasising Henderson's rumoured price, and yet when United do the same it's suddenly a "highly rated English defender".

We don't have the golden carrot that is the Champions League anymore, so we have to pay over the odds in order to get the players that could easily phone up United and get a better deal in seconds.
I'd rather the pay over the odds on a player the managerial team wants, than settling for the seventh choice because they're cheap.

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I understand what you are saying but fact remains that Liverpool are still paying a huge amount of money for a player who has played just 61 games for Sunderland, and was booed by his fans in the second half of the season.

Interestingly, I came across this paragraph in a Liverpool blog. I have highlighted the part that caught my eye:
The capture represents a perfect example of the players Liverpool hope to bring in. They’re moving away from previous season’s signings of experienced men with little sell on value (Hodgson’s signings last season had an average age of 30, compared to 2011’s signings with an average of 22) to a nucleus of young talented signings with their futures spread out wildly in front of them. Of course it makes sense to implement these types of players, the question should be why has it taken this long for the club to move forward in this way? That’s a different issue though… http://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/06...s-royal-flush/

Anyone find that comment interesting and somewhat ironic in the Arsenal context?

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Originally Posted by NGog Is Going

Interesting that SSN emphasising Henderson's rumoured price, and yet when United do the same it's suddenly a "highly rated English defender".

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Of course! Manchester United don't make "expensive mistakes". They're Manchester United! We reward them for their courage - it always pays off for them and us anyway! [/Murdoch]

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

I understand what you are saying but fact remains that Liverpool are still paying a huge amount of money for a player who has played just 61 games for Sunderland, and was booed by his fans in the second half of the season.

Interestingly, I came across this paragraph in a Liverpool blog. I have highlighted the part that caught my eye:
The capture represents a perfect example of the players Liverpool hope to bring in. They’re moving away from previous season’s signings of experienced men with little sell on value (Hodgson’s signings last season had an average age of 30, compared to 2011’s signings with an average of 22) to a nucleus of young talented signings with their futures spread out wildly in front of them. Of course it makes sense to implement these types of players, the question should be why has it taken this long for the club to move forward in this way? That’s a different issue though… http://www.thisisanfield.com/2011/06...s-royal-flush/

Anyone find that comment interesting and somewhat ironic in the Arsenal context?

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As I say though, we don't know the fee. I'm not going to take any notice of a few boo-boys who will boo anyone for any reason.

I've heard the fee could be £13m + NGog. Which is an epic swindle.

It is probably going to be more than that but it's a transfer for the next 4/5 years. If we win the league in 2015 (:lol:) with Henderson at the centre then it's a good deal. We will have some Gerrard-shaped boots to fill quite soon. Then again he could be let go for £5m after 3 years. I'd rather take the risk with youngsters, than see other clubs take them.

I understand that paying more for Carroll did than Barcelona did for David Villa seems ludricous but it is worth remembering Valencia were (and still are though not to the same extent) in debt, by a lot, as too are Barcelona. :lol: That's not even taking in to consideration as was mentioned previously how much more English players generally cost.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

I understand that paying more for Carroll did than Barcelona did for David Villa seems ludricous but it is worth remembering Valencia were (and still are though not to the same extent) in debt, by a lot, as too are Barcelona. :lol: That's not even taking in to consideration as was mentioned previously how much more English players generally cost.

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Maybe, but that does not detract from the fact that Carroll's fee is currently the 8th largest of all time. The 7 players above him are Rondaldo, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Torres, Zidane, Figo, and Crespo. What has Carroll done to justify being anywhere close to these guys in "valuation"?

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Originally Posted by NGog Is Going

It is probably going to be more than that but it's a transfer for the next 4/5 years. If we win the league in 2015 (:lol:) with Henderson at the centre then it's a good deal. We will have some Gerrard-shaped boots to fill quite soon. Then again he could be let go for £5m after 3 years. I'd rather take the risk with youngsters, than see other clubs take them.

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This is the problem that has been at the centre of the complaints about Arsenal's policy.

They cheat by spending more money than they have. Arsenal don't cheat. Which is a good thing, for me.

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Originally Posted by vpgreg

They cheat by spending more money than they have. Arsenal don't cheat. Which is a good thing, for me.

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Is it you Arsene? Spend some money you tight git

Oh and actually we did bid for Jones - 16 M too - and it was accepted by Blackeye but the player wanted to stay oop norf

According to the report, Arsenal bid for Jones but we do not know for certain. And if Arsenal did bid for him, doesn't that make your "Spend some money you tight git" a tad redundant?:)

I'm getting annoyed because we've seen this before. Wenger goes in half hearted, pisses about and we end up scrambling for cheap rubbish at the 11th hour. I don't want to see more Squillacis.

If we did bid 16m for Jones then that doesn't seem half hearted to be fair. United are an infinitely more attractive proposition than us right now so there's nothing we could have done.

I just hope Wenger doesn't get the hump over this and go off on a moral crusade, eventually ending up with some chump from Ligue 1 for 4m.

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

Maybe, but that does not detract from the fact that Carroll's fee is currently the 8th largest of all time. The 7 players above him are Rondaldo, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Torres, Zidane, Figo, and Crespo. What has Carroll done to justify being anywhere close to these guys in "valuation"?

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He's English. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's crazy money but it has been like that for years. Anyway, the value to the selling club needs to be taken in to account. We might not consider Carroll on the level of those guys (and with good reason) but that doesn't mean Newcastle wouldn't want to be compensated as much as possible for sellling one of their most important players, not just for now but potentially for the future too. It just so happens he is English and with going from Prem to Prem, that's going to mean crazy money, relative to the ability of the player.

Don't forget it was the last day of the window (with Arry sniffing around) and Newcastle knew we were getting mega-money for Torres.

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Originally Posted by NGog Is Going

Don't forget it was the last day of the window (with Arry sniffing around) and Newcastle knew we were getting mega-money for Torres.

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And he was forced out because he didn't want to leave. I feel sorry for him, tbh. A better club, but he seemed happy where he was.

£35mill for Carroll will be chump change if he fires them into the CL and on into competition with Utd and Chelski at the top, which I fully expect to happen and at our expense. Carroll, if he fulfils his potential, will be a top, top PL striker - perfectly suited to this league. He's in sharp contrast to Suarez (so we'll see how that works out), who looks another top rate buy. Contrast these two to the shit we have, Chamakh, Bendtner. Yes we have RvP and we have Theo if Wenger would get a clue and play him up front, but with RvPs injury record and Theo blowing hot and cold and having failed to live up to his potential so far I'd much rather have the Liverpool pairing. RvP is the best of the bunch but has no viable strike partner. Basically Pool got two top strikers in return for Torres who didn't want to be there and hadn't delivered in months, plus a few quid on top. Great business and a real statement of intent.

Dalglish will have been looking for very different players to the type we bring into Arsenal. I doubt he'd tolerate the lightweights we have here. I don't believe it's useful to compare the transfer policies of the two clubs because Dalglish has a grasp of the English game where plainly Wenger does not. I'd much rather have Dalglish as the manager too btw. Pool will easily finish above us next year unless they self-destruct in some manner. Even then, I doubt their self-destruct button is anywhere as potent as ours. Bottom line, the clubs spending the money are on the way up, stingy bastards like our board and Wenger have ensured we are on the way down.

The money does count and it's not silly money if everyone bar us us doing it. We're the silly ones frankly, thinking we are somehow above it all. If that's the way football works in this country then that's the way it works, we either face it or carry on down the table. We used to be assured a top 2 finish, now we're talking about top 4, soon it will be top 6. That's the trend we're on and it's down to having ripped out the quality from the team and replaced it with cheap dross.

Apparently Spanish radio saying Aguero will join us after the Copa America for £37m.

Crazy. :lol:

Pool will easily finish above us next year

Let's keep this for reference at the end of next season.

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Originally Posted by NGog Is Going

Apparently Spanish radio saying Aguero will join us after the Copa America for £37m.

Crazy. :lol:

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I will hold off on judging this "report" as it is not even finding its way onto the Liverpool or Atletico Madrid sections of Newsnow which is pretty good at reporting all the rumours, however crazy they might seem.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We used to be assured a top 2 finish, now we're talking about top 4, soon it will be top 6. That's the trend we're on and it's down to having ripped out the quality from the team and replaced it with cheap dross.

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Sorry, Niall, but that read like it was written by someone who started supporting Arsenal when Wenger joined and has never bothered to look back into Arsenal's history.

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

Sorry, Niall, but that read like it was written by someone who started supporting Arsenal when Wenger joined and has never bothered to look back into Arsenal's history.

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I remember the time before Wenger very well. Fans back then had a clear understanding of where the club stood in the scheme of things. There were no silly promises or false assurances, we took each season as it came, satisfied ourselves with cup runs (when the cup still meant something) and celebrated when George Graham overachieved. I remember it all very well. But your point doesn't hold water anyway. Man Utd used to be in the old 2nd division. Then then waited years for a title win. They were the team that almost could but never did. Does that mean they can now drop to mid-table but console themselves that things are still better than they used to be years back? I don't think so. Just as I don't think a club like ours which raised the standards can be easily excused when those standards reverse and continue to drop. If we accept that, if we agree we are a club in decline, then what's to be done about it? Certainly you don't propose accepting it because we once finished below Middlesbro' in the old division one? Sometimes decline is inevitable and beyond the control of the club, periods of success come and go. But I never experienced a team as gutless as the current one under George Graham or Terry Neill. I never saw collapses of the type we see today. There's something very different about the failure that has enveloped the present day team, something fundamentally wrong with the club I haven't witnessed before. In fact I can't recall ever seeing a string of failure such as we've experienced in any top flight team. We had winners at the club and now we have losers. Surely this is self evident? Who brought these losers in on the cheap? Who let experienced and talented players go without replacing them? And why? Was it to calmly accept the decline of the club? No, it was supposed to be a period of austerity whilst the club upped it's financial status, it was supposed to be a period where youngsters were brought through to carry the club forwards. It hasn't happened though, instead we've gone backwards. Wenger has failed, the board hasn't delivered. Most of our players are crap. I don't care how talented they are or how many passed they can string together, when it comes time to do the business they collapse. Happens every year. This lot aren't a patch on what we used to have at the club and that includes the era before Wenger. At least basck then we had players who gave a shit about the shirt. We have precious few now.

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

I will hold off on judging this "report" as it is not even finding its way onto the Liverpool or Atletico Madrid sections of Newsnow which is pretty good at reporting all the rumours, however crazy they might seem.

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Oh it'll never happen.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I remember the time before Wenger very well. .... But your point doesn't hold water anyway. Man Utd used to be in the old 2nd division.

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You did not read what I wrote then. I did not say that you only started supporting Arsenal when Wenger started as manager.: I said that what you wrote read like something that had been written by someone who had. Stating "We used to be assured a top 2 finish," gives the impression of someone who does not know Arsenal's history. It would be akin to someone who started supporting Man U when the premier league started 1992 writing "Man U have never finished below 3rd, and only three teams have beaten Man U to the title."