Worthy of it's own thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY01shVlnMg
Printable View
Worthy of it's own thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY01shVlnMg
Oh dear the next two years not going to be easier on these fans
Robbie: TY, we've just lost 4-0 at home to yeovil, do you think it's time for Wenger to go?
TY: il always back the manager and think he is the right man to take us back up to league one.
Well that's pretty much it isn't it. And he's admitted as much. To be fair on him he's not defending the results he's just saying whilst he's the manager I'm going to back him 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
And I think he would do that with any manager, I don't know if that can be said of any of the other Wenger knows best lost who will probably back stab the new guy in 2021.
You notice even Claude doesn't even get on his back here. He's never going to say Wenger should go, it's just the way he is. I think he's a pretty harmless idiot to be honest, unlike some of the people on his side.
Great thread idea.
There was a heck of a lot of distaste shown towards AFTV after the game. I can understand it, too. Our own fans (aftv) are becoming vultures. Picking out disgruntled fans for the world and his wife to see. Making us, as a club, appear to be a bigger laughing stock than we already are.
For the greatest objectivity, this forum is about the best. Even if there was a semblance of a 'wenger knows best' brigade on here, they wouldn't be hounded out.
The atmosphere in the away end yesterday was vile. Really makes you disappointed to be a Gooner or a football fan, in general.
We can't, he owns the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
I disagree completely, what benefit is there to this "we shouldn't wash our dirty laundry in public approach". The players aren't trying, the manager is a law unto himself, the board don't seem to give a fuck.....who are we meant to be trying to protect here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
AFtv is there to showcase fans opinion, not to obscure it. If we were in Chelsea`s position today marching towards a possible double with confidence, what do you think the fans mindset would be?. There is a cancer eating away at this club. Wishing it away wont make it go away. Every team in the EPL that has let its manager go recently has seen an upturn in fortunes. Now some teams that were a certainty to go down like Palace are out of it. Hull, Swansea have a chance and Leicester may end up mid table. The only clubs in freefall who havent changed managers are us and Sunderland. One is going to be relegated. The other will likely not even qualify for Europe next season.
I don't want to qualify for Europe next season. We need a complete reset and the fewer fixtures we have next season the better.
This team really needs to get right back to the fundamentals of how football is played. The kind of work you'd expect to be doing at schoolboy level.
To have a body of work that includes having won doubles and to end up where we are now is unbelievable.
Exactly. From doubles on the pitch to doubles in the bar to drown sorrows, and all under the one manager. Yet the question remains, should Wenger stay or go? That's even more unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
AFTV is absurd.
They don't canvass fan opinion, they just reach out to 5-6 characters to give their views.
Great entertainment but it's not reality.
I honestly don't see the rationale behind not wanting to be in Europe next season or, indeed, qualifying for the champions league.
If our hopes are realised and we do get a better manager in over the summer (e.g. Allegri) then what's to say he won't get us a damn sight further than Wenger in the competition?
Benitez won it in his first full season at Liverpool and di Matteo won it taking over mid-season at Chelsea.
It's just a "cut off your nose to spite your face" philosophy to not want to be in the Champions League next season
No its not. Wenger is the ultimate straw clutcher, There will be no new manager if We even get 6th. Wenger will claim it is a blip. I am not worried anyway. There is no way this team will finish any place above 6th, maybe as low as 8th if Sanchez is out longer than a month. With 50 points we cant get relegated. Any position is worth it to see that anchor lifted from our club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
"Any position is worth it"? Are you serious? So we should all just give up going?
I thought the fundamentals of support was to be there through thick and thin. Wenger is right on one point- this is a uniquely bad patch, particularly under his tenure.
We can't give up doing the job we have to do as fans
The truth is, Wenger has left us in a totally shit state. The team couldn't win a pillow fight, let alone fight its way to a CL win. There's no point us being in that tournament with the squad in the state it's in. No point except money, which is the root of the problem anyway. Added to that, we've sunk so low in terms of ambition that a 4th place finish might be viewed as enough "success" to reappoint this terrible, terrible manager for another two, potentially ruinous years. Now that years of Wenger's mismanagement have finally pushed the club into the downward dive that was aways likely, you can see how fast we are sinking. Another two years is unthinkable. Wenger has to go and the club needs to get back to the basics of football. That means putting together a sound squad that can compete in this league, plus bringing in a manager to organise a proper challenge. After that we can think about Europe but on a competitive level, unlike in recent years where we were just making up the numbers. There's nothing to be gained from 4th place, except maybe an easier ride in the transfer market with mercenaries who want guarantees, but there's plenty that can be lost including more of the club's diminishing prestige. I don't want us to lose but I'm not in the least bit bothered we won't be winning that ridiculous and hateful 4th Place Trophy again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
Wenger is right about nothing. Surely, surely, surely, for heavens sake, you have noticed this by now? What is it going to take before the majority of fans see this man for what he has become? Wenger is not a holy figure, he's a football manager. He's an employee. He's not doing his job, we need to find somebody else. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
AFTV is the only entertainment left. Let's not knock it. Without it we are left with what, post defeat motivational poetry recital from Chips Keswick?Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
I can't recall a time we lost 4 out of 5 league games under Wenger. Moreover, I don't remember a time we lost 10-2 on aggregate on our way out of European competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It could've been worse. He could've masked over the overall shitness that it's plain to see for all and sundry. He could've spoken about our fight for top 4, something outlandish about us still being mathematically able to catch Chelsea and our being two games away from winning a trophy in the FA Cup. But he didn't.
My point is, we have to support the club. It's churlish to say we can't be bothered.
To each his own. Support the club. The club that is taking fans for a ride?. Stories are that Chips Keswick paid for the Wenger support plane yesterday
Support Arsenal. Not Arsene. He is a serial loser.
Yes, support Arsenal, not Arsene. I agree. Our sole purpose is to win football games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Any banners, any Wenger out sentiment, wait until after the game. Don't do it when you're 3-1 down with 20 minutes to go to an inferior team (on paper). It's counter productive. If there is going to be any small hope of the fans spurring on a team to overturn a 2 goal deficit then we're going the wrong way about it.
I have no problem with AFTV and I want them to make as much money as they can, which they are doing. But I also know they are not real people. Just saying take it with a grain of salt but sit back and enjoy their entertainment, when he is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Yes he is serious Ernesto and it's not that far different from how I am feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
Top 4 is completely gone this season and I don't expect us to finish above Man United either, I think the best we can hope for is 6th, though I'm not completely ruling out us finishing below Everton...so 7th is a real possibility.
Forget about the FA Cup, we are in the Semi-Finals to make up the numbers, the other 3 are in there to compete for the trophy.
In the grand scheme of things our league position this season doesn't really matter, seriously....even a top 4 finish would be papering over the cracks, we have major problems all over the team...the coaching, players form, the whole thing right now is one BIG mess and it has been for a while. Wenger is the common factor here, he has nowhere to hide now, no more excuses....
Wenger is done, finished...finito, it won't get any better from here on, he's up against 5 maybe 6 managers who are clearly better than him...no amount of money we throw at the team will improve us with Wenger in charge because he doesn't know what to do with it, last summer should tell us all we need to know about Wenger and his ideas of improving the team through player recruitment. This is it now, Wenger and you call it a uniquely bad period, I call it the way things will be going forward, we are no longer in a position where things will fall into place for us because we have real challenges now for top 4 and as it stands we are just making up the numbers in CL. I for one am praying he does the honourable thing and steps down at the end of the season because it's got to the point now where I can't even watch us...it's that painful.
Despite all of the above our stagnation is not all on Wenger, we have other major issues namely Kroenke and his cronies but we need to start building from somewhere and the Manager needs to go first.
I just think we have to be careful what we wish for. If we don't get CL football for next season, will we stand a better chance of qualifying for it next season without having been in it? I'm not sure.
Since we last won the league, we finished runners up the season later. Even since then, we've been duped into thinking that 4th place is fine. Who's to say that qualifying for the Europa isnt going to be the desired prerequisite? Standards are seriously slipping.
Teams around us are getting stronger. I just almost feel like if we don't blink, they'll blink first. If we keep blocking other teams from getting in the CL (just to be clear, I want us to be in it to win it) then they might get frustrated into making stupid managerial decisions (I'm looking at Spurs, Man United and Liverpool).
As it stands we won't be getting CL football next season and we are not progressing as a Football team we are regressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
Wenger has been given more than enough leeway, he has been given countless seasons to get it right including last season where all our traditional rivals were in freefall, he still couldn't get it right.
He has been given money, fitness coaches, assistant managers, new players, anything that could possibly change has changed and we are still seeing the same results season upon season.
We need CHANGE and we need it now, we know what we are getting with Wenger and it certainly isn't improvement.
We all know why the standards are slipping, it's because of this rotten regime where nobody at the football club is accountable for team performance or improvement. Standards and targets just get shifted based upon where we are at the given time and it's just simply ludicrous.
True TrueQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
*coughs politely*Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
:angry:
Outside of this fine place of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Although...
I wonder if there was no GW would I have ditched football entirely now? Is it this place that is responsible for sustaining my habit. :sulk:
I didn't mention Wenger. I'm just aghast at the laissez-faire attitude of some of our fansQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Laissez faire?
What fucking choice do we have in all of it.
4th place is regarded by most clubs as a springboard to something else, our club treats it like its the ultimate goal
And so what if we finished outside of Europe? If Wenger stays the chance is we won't qualify again for a while anyway. We can't do anything about this, we have a manager who does not give a shit about anything but his own prestige and we are meant to care?.
We have a choice. Support the team. Support them if they're losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Or don't support them. Pretend we're not bothered. Claim that the club is killing us.
That's our choice.
Give over fella, you think the teams performances are to do with the lack of support from the fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
So booing your own players helps? That's the flip side of the coin, isn't it? Booing Walcott as he trudges off the pitch at the Hawthorns is going to galvanise him into playing better in the next match?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Let's face it, that doesn't help, either. That's counter productive and just adds weight to the mockery that our fanbase is fast becoming...which, ironically, leads me full circle back onto Arsenal Fan TV.
This isn't a one season blip. Everything has limits and we're way beyond the limits of reasonable patience waiting for the club, the team, the manager, the players to perform. Do you not suspect that if the fans just sit there and cheer this lot they'll react by taking the piss? Don't you think that finally, this lot need a huge kick up the arse, particularly as the manager seems incapable of delivering it? Walcott, he's the most senior player at the club now. What has he achieved in his time here? Not even one full season of consistency, if we are to be honest. Boo him, don't boo him, I doubt you'll get anything out of him. It's too comfortable for everyone on big rewards at this club, way too comfortable. Nobody is under any serious pressure to perform and so they don't. The fans are the only group left who can demand some accountability and raise the pressure. But we have that other group of fans, in lockstep with a media in turn tucked into Wenger's pocket - the fans who tut and wag fingers when the slightest criticism is raised. Fine, but please try to recall that this is a competitive sports club. The aim is to win, it is not to build bean bag chill zones and safe spaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It's hard not to disagree with the bit in bold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
There is a third set of fans. They'll go to the matches, they'll cheer on the team in spite of bad results. That doesn't, however, (and I can't stress this enough) make them complicit with Wenger and the cronies on the board. They are also dissatisfied.
In my opinion, the Wenger Out protests have to be before or after a game. Better still, have another one this coming weekend during the international break. I'm sure elements of the 'silent majority' will attend too. Furthermore, an organised protest will raise eyebrows with the people that matter (those pathetic leeches in the media) and they'll know that this isn't reactionary. Even if Wenger does/doesn't sign a contract a contract, protests every weekend of the close season during the summer will raise eyebrows and ruffle feathers, too.
One thing we can't have is an insipid anger in the stands. Wenger Out, yes. Fight your own fans, no. The respectability Arsenal fans once had has diminished.
The fans are the least of the clubs problems. 200 fans waving around "Wenger Out" banners is nothing compared to what he and the board truly deserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
It is sad that it has reached a point where fans are fighting in the stands but unfortunately this is what the current regime have driven people to and they are 100% at fault for this.
Nobody likes to see our club in this state and people react in different ways, some people protest, some sit in silence, some post on message boards, some people boo the team.
I want Arsenal football club to succeed, to win, to compete for trophies, in the grand scheme of things I don't really care who is in charge of the team, I appreciate Wenger for what he has done but I don't appreciate what he is doing now, he is failing, get him out and get someone in who can manage the team properly.
I don't think there is anything wrong in wanting the team to perform at a higher level and I don't think there is anything wrong in the fans making the board, manager and team aware of their unhappiness.