Wenger Slaughterhouse

[Özim]

You missed the point, He does what his employers want him to do they pay him not you, so why would he care what you want.

They set him target he meets them, therefore he meets his aim. Every managers aim is diffrent.

If he was a failure he be sacked end off don't matter if the board make money of him, if they did not like what he was doing he'd be off end off.
Then you have to ask yourself why the fans give a toss about him as he clearly doesn't give a sh*t about them....is it just stupidity? People claim he loves the club, how can he if all he's doing is keeping his bosses happy who don't give a sh*t about the fans (who are the club).

[Özim]

To you yes, to his bosses no.
and the football world.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Everyone who watches football, if he's doing it for the money then like I said he's a loser with no integrity and should be nowhere near this club.

Yeah name one manager who would do it for free, because they love the game. Name 1.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

and the football world.

Thats just it he is not, he gets praise from top managers and players in the game.

[Özim]

Yeah name one manager who would do it for free, because they love the game. Name 1.
I don't expect them to do it for free, I also don't expect them to be losers who are happy with 4th place for 7 years.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Then you have to ask yourself why the fans give a toss about him as he clearly doesn't give a sh*t about them....is it just stupidity? People claim he loves the club, how can he if all he's doing is keeping his bosses happy who don't give a sh*t about the fans (who are the club).

i believe he loves the club but he has his faults.


zimm what would you do, if you were payed 7 million a year, the people below you in the company think you are not doing enough, yet your bosses are happy as you meet the targets set for you. would you walk? would you fuck

[Özim]

Thats just it he is not, he gets praise from top managers and players in the game.
Yeah it's just like the old thing about all our kids being superstars and our football being the prettiest....it's catching I think people just repeat what has been said for many years rather than making their own judgment based on his performance.

[Niall_Quinn]

A new manager will expect money to spend and a chance to bring success.

Exactly. You make my point for me. Wenger will not be sacked no matter how much the fans want it. He will only be sacked if he stops making money for the shareholders WITHOUT expecting them to stump up cash. And the board have told us - when forced by law to mingle with the unwashed - the finances are the priority and, whatever we may think, THEY consider they are doing a remarkable job. So good in fact they tell us the club should be the model for all football. When challenged they simply reassert this message. You are complaining through at a brick wall with them on the other side of it, oblivious.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Then you have to ask yourself why the fans give a toss about him as he clearly doesn't give a sh*t about them....is it just stupidity? People claim he loves the club, how can he if all he's doing is keeping his bosses happy who don't give a sh*t about the fans (who are the club).
Fans care about the club like all fans do, no manager gives a shit about the fans none. Just cause they win stuff don't mean they give a shit about the fans. They do what they bosses and want and want they aim is.

Wenger can't go to Madrid and Settle for 4th if he wanted, cause he'll be sacked (regardless of him being a winner or not) Madrid won't allow that to happen.

Wenger could not go to Chelsea under Roman and settle for 4th he won't allow that.

His own target is to win the league he said so, but his board target is top 4 at the least and he meets that, they pay him, thats how it works.

[Niall_Quinn]

Everyone who watches football, if he's doing it for the money then like I said he's a loser with no integrity and should be nowhere near this club.

You want to bring in Mother Theresa? She's dead.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah it's just like the old thing about all our kids being superstars and our football being the prettiest....it's catching I think people just repeat what has been said for many years rather than making their own judgment based on his performance.


They do, managers won't slate him cause of all the work he has done for the club, he may not have won a thing in 7 years, but he gets respect from the likes of Cryuff etc.

Even the players who leave don't say a bad word about him. Even Ashley Cole said it was all down to Dein why he left.

[Power n Glory]

Too much talk about the Board and our finances. Based off the last few performances and seeing how poor we are tactically, you have to hold Wenger accountable and stop talking about Ivan and Kronke. Wenger continues to play the same players that costs us points even though he has better options on the bench and that is why he's getting slated. He can't hide behind finances on that front.

If he goes into the Schalke game with the exact same team that lost to Man Utd and the same setup then there is nothing more to discuss.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't expect them to do it for free, I also don't expect them to be losers who are happy with 4th place for 7 years.


f he's doing it for the money then like I said he's a loser with no integrity

Well make up your mind. All managers do it for the money. Just cause their employers don't pay them top dollar is not Wengers problem.

[Özim]

Exactly. You make my point for me. Wenger will not be sacked no matter how much the fans want it. He will only be sacked if he stops making money for the shareholders WITHOUT expecting them to stump up cash. And the board have told us - when forced by law to mingle with the unwashed - the finances are the priority and, whatever we may think, THEY consider they are doing a remarkable job. So good in fact they tell us the club should be the model for all football. When challenged they simply reassert this message. You are complaining through at a brick wall with them on the other side of it, oblivious.
I disagree, if the stadium was half full and the fans called for his sacking he'd be gone tomorrow.

[Özim]

You want to bring in Mother Theresa? She's dead.
Could have fooled his players....they think he is Mother Teresa.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I disagree, if the stadium was half full and the fans called for his sacking he'd be gone tomorrow.

Who will sack him. The Board he makes money for. The board who say they will give him another deal.

A PHW to Sticks to fingers up at the fans, yeah they care what the fans think. Fans are powerless to get wenger sacked.

[Özim]

They do, managers won't slate him cause of all the work he has done for the club, he may not have won a thing in 7 years, but he gets respect from the likes of Cryuff etc.

Even the players who leave don't say a bad word about him. Even Ashley Cole said it was all down to Dein why he left.
Players love him and why wouldn't they....he's basically like their dad and let's them have whatever they want......even when it's time for them to move on he'll negotiate a lower fee for them :lol:

As for managers, they don't look at his performance in the last 7 years....if they did they might not think he was so great.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I disagree, if the stadium was half full and the fans called for his sacking he'd be gone tomorrow.


no he wouldnt, because sadly even if our stadium isnt full on the day, tickets are sold out usually. all the season ticket holders etc. last year i remember them announcing attendances close to 60k when it was in reality close to 40k because they ahd sold the tickets.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Too much talk about the Board and our finances. Based off the last few performances and seeing how poor we are tactically, you have to hold Wenger accountable and stop talking about Ivan and Kronke. Wenger continues to play the same players that costs us points even though he has better options on the bench and that is why he's getting slated. He can't hide behind finances on that front.

If he goes into the Schalke game with the exact same team that lost to Man Utd and the same setup then there is nothing more to discuss.

No one said he was not to blame for what goes on, on the pitch.

[Özim]

Who will sack him. The Board he makes money for. The board who say they will give him another deal.

A PHW to Sticks to fingers up at the fans, yeah they care what the fans think. Fans are powerless to get wenger sacked.
The board rely on the fans....without their money they have nothing....a half full stadium would see the money dry up and thus they'd have no choice. The CL isn't go to make them money alone, they need gate receipts which brings far more in.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

no he wouldnt, because sadly even if our stadium isnt full on the day, tickets are sold out usually. all the season ticket holders etc. last year i remember them announcing attendances close to 60k when it was in reality close to 40k because they ahd sold the tickets.

When had a board ever listend to fans and ours at that.

[Özim]

no he wouldnt, because sadly even if our stadium isnt full on the day, tickets are sold out usually. all the season ticket holders etc. last year i remember them announcing attendances close to 60k when it was in reality close to 40k because they ahd sold the tickets.
If people didn't buy the season tickets in the 1st place it would make a difference.

[Ollie the Optimist]

If people didn't buy the season tickets in the 1st place it would make a difference.

true, but htat wont happen till next summer. this years money from tickets is pretty much already sorted

[Özim]

Well make up your mind. All managers do it for the money. Just cause their employers don't pay them top dollar is not Wengers problem.
I don't agree, some managers also do it to succeed and achieve something.

[Özim]

true, but htat wont happen till next summer. this years money from tickets is pretty much already sorted
It won't happen, but it's foolish to say the fans are powerless......if income dried up they'd soon act on it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Too much talk about the Board and our finances. Based off the last few performances and seeing how poor we are tactically, you have to hold Wenger accountable and stop talking about Ivan and Kronke. Wenger continues to play the same players that costs us points even though he has better options on the bench and that is why he's getting slated. He can't hide behind finances on that front.

If he goes into the Schalke game with the exact same team that lost to Man Utd and the same setup then there is nothing more to discuss.

There can never be enough talk about the board, it is their policies that see our best talent stripped from the club year on year. And Wenger is not a tactician, he's a statistician. He demonstrates this with his 68 minute and 72 minute pre-planned substitutions no matter who we are playing or what's happening on the pitch. He won't bother with two results, he'll plan over 50 results in a season. And if he comes out 4th then another "title" has been won. This is the financial AND football model for our club. Prior to that you had people like Dein who wanted to finish first because he was a fan as well as a businessman. These types have been purged.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The board rely on the fans....without their money they have nothing....a half full stadium would see the money dry up and thus they'd have no choice. The CL isn't go to make them money alone, they need gate receipts which brings far more in.

The board don't give a shit about the fans, they know they will get fans even if they don't turn up to games. The board won't say the fans want him out so he is gone, he will go when they are ready to get rid of him.

Yeah if the club is not making money and he is not meeting his targets he will be sacked, not because some fans say he should go.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If people didn't buy the season tickets in the 1st place it would make a difference.

They buy them to watch the team they love Ask ACH he has one.

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree, if the stadium was half full and the fans called for his sacking he'd be gone tomorrow.

That's where inelastic demand helps out, it provides a buffer against that outcome. Besides, the TV money is getting so ludicrous there may come a time when empty stadiums are desirable. Less expenditure - more profit.

[Ollie the Optimist]

It won't happen, but it's foolish to say the fans are powerless......if income dried up they'd soon act on it.


it wont, there are too many fans who would jump at the chance of a season ticket if offered it. i know i would and i want change. wont stop me going to games, that will do more harm then good

[Özim]

The board don't give a shit about the fans, they know they will get fans even if they don't turn up to games. The board won't say the fans want him out so he is gone, he will go when they are ready to get rid of him.

Yeah if the club is not making money and he is not meeting his targets he will be sacked, not because some fans say he should go.
If the fans don't pay for tickets and blame the fact Wenger is still in charge for it...I guarantee they would sack him.......if the money dries up they'll have to come up with the solution and if the fans are calling for Wengers head then his head will roll.

Money talks.

[Özim]

They buy them to watch the team they love Ask ACH he has one.
I'm well aware why they buy them, doesn't change the fact that in a sense it's doing the club more harm then good on the pitch.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

it wont, there are too many fans who would jump at the chance of a season ticket if offered it. i know i would and i want change. wont stop me going to games, that will do more harm then good

You go and watch the team you love play, nothing wrong with that. Its the people who buy these tickets and don't go to games that are the problem. Because its like they go for the game or atmosphere they go cause they can and don't care what happens to the club they will still go.

[Kano]

It won't happen, but it's foolish to say the fans are powerless......if income dried up they'd soon act on it.
you really don't get being a paying supporter at all. which is fine if you're an armchair fan, people make their own choices and financial priorities. but don't sit and preach about how easy it is like some sort of computer game.

you realise why we can keep increasing prices for tickets and everything else? because fans are addicted. no matter what the times, people will always, always come. it's an addiction not solved from a couple of posts to a couple of people on the net. if it means that much and you truly believe it would solve the action, why not get up and bring the message to others at the games. someone has to start it. why not you?

[Özim]

That's where inelastic demand helps out, it provides a buffer against that outcome. Besides, the TV money is getting so ludicrous there may come a time when empty stadiums are desirable. Less expenditure - more profit.
It sure does, it's only inelastic because people don't think they can change anything though.

I don't think clbs will ever be able to survive on that alone, they make huge amounts from matchdays, don't forget all the food etc as well as tickets.

Wimbledon FC had empty stadiums, they never had any money to spend and didn't make money out of the club, the owner did it out of love for the club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If the fans don't pay for tickets and blame the fact Wenger is still in charge for it...I guarantee they would sack him.......if the money dries up they'll have to come up with the solution and if the fans are calling for Wengers head then his head will roll.

Money talks.

Yes they will sack him if the money dries up, because the money has dried up. Nothing to do with fans saying he should go, if that was the case he would have been sacked last season with all the wenger our chants.

The Arsenal board are not the Chelsea or Utd boards.

[Power n Glory]

There can never be enough talk about the board, it is their policies that see our best talent stripped from the club year on year. And Wenger is not a tactician, he's a statistician. He demonstrates this with his 68 minute and 72 minute pre-planned substitutions no matter who we are playing or what's happening on the pitch. He won't bother with two results, he'll plan over 50 results in a season. And if he comes out 4th then another "title" has been won. This is the financial AND football model for our club. Prior to that you had people like Dein who wanted to finish first because he was a fan as well as a businessman. These types have been purged.

It's Wenger that goes along with it and gives his approval on who has to go. RVP met up with Gazidis and Wenger for contract talks and he wasn't sold because he asked for more money, he was sold because he was telling Wenger how to do his job and Wenger's ego was bruised. Theo isn't in the starting line up for similar reasons. Players aren't having talks with PHW and Stan. He's no puppet.

Plus, we lose silly points because of his stubborn tactics and I feel a better manager can do more with the resources he is given.

[Özim]

you really don't get being a paying supporter at all. which is fine if you're an armchair fan, people make their own choices and financial priorities. but don't sit and preach about how easy it is like some sort of computer game.

you realise why we can keep increasing prices for tickets and everything else? because fans are addicted. no matter what the times, people will always, always come. it's an addiction not solved from a couple of posts to a couple of people on the net. if it means that much and you truly believe it would solve the action, why not get up and bring the message to others at the games. someone has to start it. why not you?
I know what you're saying....but IMO lots of fans just aren't willing to listen....the reaction to Wenger's AGM speech says a lot...too much sentiment for a man who has little respect for them.

People say there's nothing you can do, maybe they're right....but if someone has a gun to your head and is telling you they are going to shoot you in 10 seconds will you just stand there and accept you're dead or try and stop them?

[Cripps_orig]

The reason why i still have the season ticket is cos it will take years to get it back again and when the good times come back and they will, admittedly when Wenger leaves, i want to be there

That is the one hope and im sure im not the only ST holder who feels that way hence why we keep it

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's Wenger that goes along with it and gives his approval on who has to go. RVP met up with Gazidis and Wenger for contract talks and he wasn't sold because he asked for more money, he was sold because he was telling Wenger how to do his job and Wenger's ego was bruised. Theo isn't in the starting line up for similar reasons. Players aren't having talks with PHW and Stan. He's no puppet.

Plus, we lose silly points because of his stubborn tactics and I feel a better manager can do more with the resources he is given.

Yeah so its ok for someone to tell his manager what to do and no expect to be sacked sold?

[Özim]

You go and watch the team you love play, nothing wrong with that. Its the people who buy these tickets and don't go to games that are the problem. Because its like they go for the game or atmosphere they go cause they can and don't care what happens to the club they will still go.
Maybe not, I do think it's wrong to indulge people who take the p*ss out of you without putting any pressure on them to go though.

[Özim]

The reason why i still have the season ticket is cos it will take years to get it back again and when the good times come back and they will, admittedly when Wenger leaves, i want to be there

That is the one hope and im sure im not the only ST holder who feels that way hence why we keep it
Makes sense to be honest, very frustrating watching this sh*t though and no end in sight.

I agree it will be exciting again when we get a new manager, problem seems to be getting rid of the current one.

[Özim]

Yes they will sack him if the money dries up, because the money has dried up. Nothing to do with fans saying he should go, if that was the case he would have been sacked last season with all the wenger our chants.

The Arsenal board are not the Chelsea or Utd boards.
You're missing the point here, ultimately the fans get what they want by forcing their hand. As for the Wenger out chants...were there any? I don't think so, if their were it must have been about 2.4 people.

[Kano]

I know what you're saying....but IMO lots of fans just aren't willing to listen....the reaction to Wenger's AGM speech says a lot...too much sentiment for a man who has little respect for them.

People say there's nothing you can do, maybe they're right....but if someone has a gun to your head and is telling you they are going to shoot you in 10 seconds will you just stand there and accept you're dead or try and stop them?
I'm not sure this is a matter of life or death like a bullet stretching through your brain tbh.

the fanbase in london is nowhere near as passionate or bonkers as it gets in places like Liverpool and Newcastle where those teams become the fans lives. Sure each club has a pocket but with everything else in London, there is more on offer so a vast majority of fans are not do die hard.

a million fans came from abroad just to watch games in the prem last season, so you can imagine a healthy amount of those came to the emirates. they don't give a toss about politics, it a rare occasion to get to see the team in the flesh. you can change peoples minds but you won't stop them going to the stadium - love doesn't die that easily.

[Xhaka Can’t]

In football's eyes he is and that's what really matters.....he's a guy with no integrity if all he cares about is money.

Is he failing to meet my criteria?

You bet your ass he is.

But then my criteria does not matter to those that employ him.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Power n Glory]

Yeah so its ok for someone to tell his manager what to do and no expect to be sacked sold?

Butt out Charlie because this where you always get caught out. As I said earlier, your the type of guy that would argue that certain players should be sold, as seen above, but then wonder why we struggle. You just don't get it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Makes sense to be honest, very frustrating watching this sh*t though and no end in sight.

I agree it will be exciting again when we get a new manager, problem seems to be getting rid of the current one.

Make your mind up, 1st your saying people should get rid of tickets, now someone sells you a story it makes sense to keep them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Butt out Charlie because this where you always get caught out. As I said earlier, your the type of guy that would argue that certain players should be sold, as seen above, but then wonder why we struggle. You just don't get it.

Who did i say should be sold, tell me now. I never said RVP should be sold, so stop twisting things. I never said we should sell out best players.

Show me where i said it.

[Özim]

Yeah so its ok for someone to tell his manager what to do and no expect to be sacked sold?
In the case of Wenger yes, because clearly the guy doesn't have a clue what to do.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

In the case of Wenger yes, because clearly the guy doesn't have a clue what to do.

Rubbish. Not that he don't no what to do, that RVP can dictate to his boss.

[Özim]

Make your mind up, 1st your saying people should get rid of tickets, now someone sells you a story it makes sense to keep them.
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that if people did that things would change for sure.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not sure this is a matter of life or death like a bullet stretching through your brain tbh.

the fanbase in london is nowhere near as passionate or bonkers as it gets in places like Liverpool and Newcastle where those teams become the fans lives. Sure each club has a pocket but with everything else in London, there is more on offer so a vast majority of fans are not do die hard.

a million fans came from abroad just to watch games in the prem last season, so you can imagine a healthy amount of those came to the emirates. they don't give a toss about politics, it a rare occasion to get to see the team in the flesh. you can change peoples minds but you won't stop them going to the stadium - love doesn't die that easily.


People won't stop going to games but the atmosphere will become so hostile and poisonous that the message will eventually get through to management. It's already happening and the longer this goes on the frustration will continue to pour out and it will get louder and maybe to the point of where people take action.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Who did i say should be sold, tell me now. I never said RVP should be sold, so stop twisting things. I never said we should sell out best players.

Show me where i said it.

Never said you said that

[Özim]

Rubbish. Not that he don't no what to do, that RVP can dictate to his boss.
Yeah well he's not his boss now, RVP had enough of the old guy and moved on to a successful club with a manager who cares about winning.....got to respect him for that he saw that Wenger didn't have it in him and wasn't going to change.

Wenger should have listened....another example of how he's hurting the club.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You're missing the point here, ultimately the fans get what they want by forcing their hand. As for the Wenger out chants...were there any? I don't think so, if their were it must have been about 2.4 people.


there arent wenger out chants, however there are chants. such as "ivan gazidas what the fuck do you do?" and "we want our Arsenal back"

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah well he's not his boss now, RVP had enough of the old guy and moved on to a successful club with a manager who cares about winning.....got to respect him for that he saw that Wenger didn't have it in him and wasn't going to change.

there is no manager in the world who would be dicatated too like van persie tried to do to wenger. not mourinho, not ferguson, no one would accept that from an employee.

[Kano]

People won't stop going to games but the atmosphere will become so hostile and poisonous that the message will eventually get through to management. It's already happening and the longer this goes on the frustration will continue to pour out and it will get louder and maybe to the point of where people take action.
yeah i agree with that and it has been heading that way for a few seasons now, patience is almost threadbare.

there may be more of that black scarf stuff and a few demonstrations but the stadium will remain mostly full. this is the very reason why there is a history of boards taking football clubs for a ride because they have the perfect customers that may shout and moan a bit but are slaves to the product. rip you off, laugh in your face and you still come back for more -playing on our weaknesses and profiting from it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah well he's not his boss now, RVP had enough of the old guy and moved on to a successful club with a manager who cares about winning.....got to respect him for that he saw that Wenger didn't have it in him and wasn't going to change.

Wenger should have listened....another example of how he's hurting the club.

Funny how he said Wenger and Ferguson were on parr with each other But i guess RVP is Lying.

[Power n Glory]

Who did i say should be sold, tell me now. I never said RVP should be sold, so stop twisting things. I never said we should sell out best players.

Show me where i said it.

Then what are you saying, Charlie? What's your argument? You keep missing key points in this debate.

[Özim]

there arent wenger out chants, however there are chants. such as "ivan gazidas what the fuck do you do?" and "we want our Arsenal back"
Yeah, pretty lame to be honest and pretty muted as well.....it's not very convincing.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Charlie in devil's advocate Beast mode. :bow:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah, pretty lame to be honest and pretty muted as well.....it's not very convincing.

its about as convincing as typing a post on an internet forum telling people to do something :coffee:

[Özim]

Funny how he said Wenger and Ferguson were on parr with each other But i guess RVP is Lying.
They all say that as Wenger treats his players well, like a dad, they don't want to hurt his feelings even after leaving.

Silvestre said Ferguson was the best (I know he was sh*t) and it's pretty clear he is.......by miles.

[Özim]

its about as convincing as typing a post on an internet forum telling people to do something :coffee:
At least some have been trying for 7 years :coffee:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

At a lost for words right now. Unbelievable that folks could still be trying to commiserate for AW, no matter how pathetic it's making them look.

Arsene Wenger and the Board are one in the same for those who haven't realised. He interviewed his incoming boss Gazidis ffs, something that shows he's no ordinary manager and is an actual shot caller around these parts. Hence, there is no seperating them when trying to determine why we are now shit.

Even if you argue against the above, there can be no absolving him of our fuck ups on theactual football side of things. The transfer dealings, team selections, woeful lack of tactics, lack of motivation and desire among the players, the list goes on.... are the little things why we are adrift of the big 3. The little things that cost us points against pub teams on a regular.

He, the capitalist pig who has no interest in football what so ever, the mobster and the **** face Etonian bastard can't fuck off soon enough.

[Globalgunner]

People keep going on about supporting a fooball club as if it is a descision completely devoid of rationality. If you do not like the direction the club is going, common sense means you should stay away and not contribute your hard earned towards the miasma of stupidity currently holding sway. In which other walk of like does one have to stay true. If your local MP consistently failed to bring improvements to your local infrastructure and was routinely caught swanning away in hotels in Barbados. DO continue to vote for him and say. "It aint his fault. hes only doing what the PM tells him"..Your local niteclub sells you diluted beer at triple prices and you regularly get insulted at the gate. Do you keep going for old times sake?. Peple here saying there is nothing the fans can do are purely on a wind up. Like the poster says. 3 empty home games with the opposing fans whooping it up will convince ANY board even ours that the jig is up. Even if all the tickets are in theory sold out. If you want change only YOU can make it. Stop funding the decline of this club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Then what are you saying, Charlie? What's your argument? You keep missing key points in this debate.

I never said RVP should be sold, i said if the reason he was sold cause He dictated to Wenger then any manager would get rid. Never said Wenger should have.

Yes your right You can not blame the board for what happens on the pitch,That is Wengers job and on the pitch to me as a fan he has failed.

However the board and Wenger are one in the same, in the aspect that they are not happy to reinvest in the team giving us a better chance.

With better players, yes Wenger may play them out of place, get his tactics wrong but we'd have a damm better chance.

[Power n Glory]

At a lost for words right now. Unbelievable that folks could still be trying to commiserate for AW, no matter how pathetic it's making them look.

Arsene Wenger and the Board are one in the same for those who haven't realised. He interviewed his incoming boss Gazidis ffs, something that shows he's no ordinary manager and is an actual shot caller around these parts. Hence, there is no seperating them when trying to determine why we are now shit.

Even if you argue against the above, there can be no absolving him of our fuck ups on theactual football side of things. The transfer dealings, team selections, woeful lack of tactics, lack of motivation and desire among the players, the list goes on.... are the little things why we are adrift of the big 3. The little things that cost us points against pub teams on a regular.

He, the capitalist pig who has no interest in football what so ever, the mobster and the **** face Etonian bastard can't fuck off soon enough.

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Thats excatly what your saying. You have been saying for ages fans need to vote with their feet, now its they need to keep their tickets so they can enjoy the club in the future.


If people didn't buy the season tickets in the 1st place it would make a difference.

1 min you say if people did not buy them it would make a diffrence, now Ach sells you a story it makes sense.

[Özim]

Thats excatly what your saying. You have been saying for ages fans need to vote with their feet, now its they need to keep their tickets so they can enjoy the club in the future.
No.

I'm saying that would work, I know it won't happen....you're the one saying there's nothing anyone can do......there is.

[Özim]

1 min you say if people did not buy them it would make a diffrence, now Ach sells you a story it makes sense.
No.

I'm saying that would work, I know it won't happen....you're the one saying there's nothing anyone can do......there is.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No.

I'm saying that would work, I know it won't happen....you're the one saying there's nothing anyone can do......there is.

Twisting things again eh.

[Cripps_orig]

1 min you say if people did not buy them it would make a diffrence, now Ach sells you a story it makes sense.

The fuck

I didnt sell no one nothing.

[Özim]

Twisting things again eh.
No, you're just jumping on the bandwagon.

I want people to protest at least and make sure they are heard.

I was responding to your point about fans not being able to change anything, you're wrong.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No, you're just jumping on the bandwagon.

I want people to protest at least and make sure they are heard.

Then stick to that.

[Power n Glory]

I never said RVP should be sold, i said if the reason he was sold cause He dictated to Wenger then any manager would get rid. Never said Wenger should have.

Yes your right You can not blame the board for what happens on the pitch,That is Wengers job and on the pitch to me as a fan he has failed.

However the board and Wenger are one in the same, in the aspect that they are not happy to reinvest in the team giving us a better chance.

With better players, yes Wenger may play them out of place, get his tactics wrong but we'd have a damm better chance.


You say that but constantly disagree with silly points. You're going back and forth with Zimm and you're practically on the same page. Connect the dots.

[Özim]

Then stick to that.
You were the ones saying there's nothing the fans can do, I was just pointing out this clearly isn't true.

[Power n Glory]

You were the ones saying there's nothing the fans can do, I was just pointing out this clearly isn't true.

I think we're late in on the joke. He's on the wum. :lol:

Well played, Charlie!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You were the ones saying there's nothing the fans can do, I was just pointing out this clearly isn't true.

I said fans are powerless to the board, They won't sack the manager cause the fans say so.

[Özim]

I said fans are powerless to the board, They won't sack the manager cause the fans say so.
FFS

[Olivier's xmas twist]

FFS

You go and tell Ivam to sack wenger and see what he tells you.

[Özim]

You go and tell Ivam to sack wenger and see what he tells you.
Noone is just going to tell someone and expect it to happen....buy they can make their feelings clear and act to try and make this happen.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Oh, I get it. It's a last ditch effort by the Wenger-ites to try and save face. Pride and ego on display, one being the blinker on the left eye, the other on the right, in no respective order as anyone one fits either side of the face.

Give it up guys, see it for what it is, a good person giving in to the dark side of the force with no chance of redemption. You've lost him lads. He's gone. I too worshipped him when he was actually about football, sticking it to SAF and the Mancs or any other worthy to be considered rivals - even if we lost sometimes.

But look at what we saw yesterday, listen to Fergie's post match interview, he clearly no longer thinks anything of someone who used to be a fierce rival. He was looking for a goal fest to push his goal average to stratostrophic levels just in case the title came down to GD again. 1st time ever hearing him say that after any fixture what so ever. Why us?

[Ollie the Optimist]

Noone is just going to tell someone and expect it to happen....buy they can make their feelings clear and act to try and make this happen.

zimm, why dont you instead of posting on a message board, actually do something. why dont you go to a game, with a banner outside the ground, hand out leafets to get support or whatever.

you say we dont do anything to as fans, well someone has too, why dont you do it?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Noone is just going to tell someone and expect it to happen....buy they can make their feelings clear and act to try and make this happen.

And i get that, but as you say we have been mugged off for a few years now, how many of our fans have protested or cancelled season tickets to the point action is taken.

The board/Wenger know this won't happen, this is why they do what they do. Their not bothered about any of us making threats on this forum.

The fans love for the club or that vision one day they may see the team up there, stops them from walking out on the team. So it gives the board what it wants.

They only care about the paying lot.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Oh, I get it. It's a last ditch effort by the Wenger-ites to try and save face. Pride and ego on display, one being the blinker on the left eye, the other on the right, in no respective order as anyone one fits either side of the face.

Give it up guys, see it for what it is, a good person giving in to the dark side of the force with no chance of redemption. You've lost him lads. He's gone. I too worshipped him when he was actually about football, sticking it to SAF and the Mancs or any other worthy to be considered rivals - even if we lost sometimes.

But look at what we saw yesterday, listen to Fergie's post match interview, he clearly no longer thinks anything of someone who used to be a fierce rival. He was looking for a goal fest to push his goal average to stratostrophic levels just in case the title came down to GD again. 1st time ever hearing him say that after any fixture what so ever. Why us?

So because people don't say Wenger out a million times a day their Wenger-ites ok.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

zimm, why dont you instead of posting on a message board, actually do something. why dont you go to a game, with a banner outside the ground, hand out leafets to get support or whatever.

you say we dont do anything to as fans, well someone has too, why dont you do it?

Spot on.

[GP]

Charlie and Ollie pwning the fuck out of this thread

Charlie and Ollie :bow:

[Özim]

zimm, why dont you instead of posting on a message board, actually do something. why dont you go to a game, with a banner outside the ground, hand out leafets to get support or whatever.

you say we dont do anything to as fans, well someone has too, why dont you do it?
I'm a busy man :lol:

At the end of the day I don't believe that Arsenal fans will demonstrate and call for Wenger's head, I reckon they'll just keep quiet and accept it as has been the norm, the AGM told me everything I needed to know....not much in the way of protest......noone believes in it and noone believes it will work.

You only need to see the opinions on here to realise most still feel sorry for Wenger and feel he's a victim.

[Özim]

Charlie and Ollie pwning the fuck out of this thread

Charlie and Ollie :bow:
Not much in it. Just one post separating the sides.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm a busy man :lol:

At the end of the day I don't believe that Arsenal fans will demonstrate and call for Wenger's head, I reckon they'll just keep quiet and accept it as has been the norm, the AGM told me everything I needed to know....not much in the way of protest......noone believes in it and noone believes it will work.

You only need to see the opinions on here to realise most still feel sorry for Wenger and feel he's a victim.

so busy that you spend a lot of time on an internet message board. :lol:

by you doing nothing either as you jsut said you wont, you are as guilty as the rest of us you moan about who nothing

[Özil's Panoramic View]

So because people don't say Wenger out a million times a day their Wenger-ites ok.

Yes. Good title too.

Definition also available: chosen few who follow the god of delusion without fail (no pun intended on usage of the word fail).

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yes. Good title too.

Definition also available: chosen few who follow god of delusion without fail (no pun intended on usage of the word fail).

i ahvnt seen anyone do what you just said. im a wenger fan and dont want him out, yet ive moaned about him and his decisions. no one on here in the last few weeks and just said wenger has done nothing wrong.

people have stated their balanced opinions and why they blame the board or wenger, then you come in and insult them

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes. Good title too.

Definition also available: chosen few who follow the god of delusion without fail (no pun intended on usage of the word fail).

I know, what it means, just cause i don't call him a **** ever min, please don't call me A Wenger follower or what ever.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm a busy man :lol:

At the end of the day I don't believe that Arsenal fans will demonstrate and call for Wenger's head, I reckon they'll just keep quiet and accept it as has been the norm, the AGM told me everything I needed to know....not much in the way of protest......noone believes in it and noone believes it will work.

You only need to see the opinions on here to realise most still feel sorry for Wenger and feel he's a victim.

Im sure there are enough people on here to follow you if you started one. Heck, name the place date and time, im there.

[Letters]

so busy that you spend a lot of time on an internet message board. :lol:

http://jonahenry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Boom.jpeg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i ahvnt seen anyone do what you just said. im a wenger fan and dont want him out, yet ive moaned about him and his decisions. no one on here in the last few weeks and just said wenger has done nothing wrong.

people have stated their balanced opinions and why they blame the board or wenger, then you come in and insult them

Pretty much, seems you can only insult Wenger if you don't your A sheep.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

so busy that you spend a lot of time on an internet message board. :lol:


:haha:

[Özim]

http://jonahenry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Boom.jpeg
Hello :wave:

[Letters]

Hello :wave:
You are busy.

;)

[Özim]

You are busy.

;)
Just finished clearing up the forum, now going to go and cook some dinner, watch some TV, before retiring for the night :lol:

[Cripps_orig]

Not much in it. Just one post separating the sides.
:haha:

Zimm :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

:haha:

Zimm :bow:

That was pretty funny. :lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I know, what it means, just cause i don't call him a **** ever min, please don't call me A Wenger follower or what ever.

But sir, I never named any names.

You are known for calling out people for misquoting others, or at least for not quoting the exact words that were said. So why then, are you telling me not to call you "A Wenger Follower" when I never said Charlie is a Wenger follower?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But sir, I never named any names.

You are known for calling out people for misquoting others, or at least for not quoting the exact words that were said. So why then, are you telling me not to call you "A Wenger Follower" when I never said Charlie is a Wenger follower?

Only people that were in this Thread were Me, Zimm, Ollie, Png And NQ. Its Clear you were not talking to Zimm and PnQ, so its Obvious, you were talking to me Ollie and NQ.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just finished clearing up the forum, now going to go and cook some dinner, watch some TV, before retiring for the night :lol:

Yeah but thats enough anout what Letters is going to do.

[Cripps_orig]

Only people that were in this Thread were Me, Zimm, Ollie, Png And NQ. Its Clear you were not talking to Zimm and PnQ, so its Obvious, you were talking to me Ollie and NQ.
Never said he was talking to you, Ollie and NQ

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Only people that were in this Thread were Me, Zimm, Ollie, Png And NQ. Its Clear you were not talking to Zimm and PnQ, so its Obvious, you were talking to me Ollie and NQ.

No matter how obvious, I never said Charlie is a Wenger Follower.

Oh shit! I'm starting to sound like you now, aren't I?

Charlie :bow:

most influential GW poster.

[Cripps_orig]

Charlie is the best poster in the world at what he does

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie and Ollie pwning the fuck out of this thread

Charlie and Ollie :bow:

Not me

Ollie's been Awesome though. :coffee:

[Letters]

Not much in it. Just one post separating the sides.
:haha:

Very good.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not much in it. Just one post separating the sides.

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

At a lost for words right now. Unbelievable that folks could still be trying to commiserate for AW, no matter how pathetic it's making them look.

Arsene Wenger and the Board are one in the same for those who haven't realised. He interviewed his incoming boss Gazidis ffs, something that shows he's no ordinary manager and is an actual shot caller around these parts. Hence, there is no seperating them when trying to determine why we are now shit.

Even if you argue against the above, there can be no absolving him of our fuck ups on theactual football side of things. The transfer dealings, team selections, woeful lack of tactics, lack of motivation and desire among the players, the list goes on.... are the little things why we are adrift of the big 3. The little things that cost us points against pub teams on a regular.

He, the capitalist pig who has no interest in football what so ever, the mobster and the **** face Etonian bastard can't fuck off soon enough.

Seriously though, for a gang that has planned this so thoroughly do you not think they have a contingency in place should such an unlikely string of events occur? Every year we have £30mill in the transfer "war chest" and every year we make a profit in the transfer market. The club must be awash with cash. A few rumours of a big name and a £30mill signing which would make zero odds in the grand scheme of things would be enough to get most of the rebel fans back on those seats and singing their guts out.

Gazidis has pretty much stated they need two more years to execute their plans. They've managed to keep this thing heading in the right direction for much longer than that so far. They will have planned the last couple of years very carefully because they would have known in advance that's when the squad would be most threadbare in terms of top flight talent. Hell, they might even get MORE fans turning up if it got nasty, just for the drama of it. The Glaziers and Ashley survived worse than I can ever envisage taking place at Arsenal.

If we were smart we'd be trying to put the pressure on Usmanov to let him know he'd better put his money where his mouth is when he comes in. No more bullshit like the last two regimes. Make it hot for him in advance because the current battle has been decisively lost. In fact it was never fought, it was a walkover.

[Dennis Bendtner]

God I fucking hate this club. Fuck off. It's going to kill us all.

[Niall_Quinn]

God I fucking hate this club. Fuck off. It's going to kill us all.

Not if I kill us all first.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

[Dennis Bendtner]

Not if I kill us all first.

Do it before the Schalke game please.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do it before the Schalke game please.

Have a feeling we might do okay there. I have put a tenner on us getting a shot on target within the first 70 mins.

[SayNoMore]

Think you've lost your tenner pal

[Niall_Quinn]

Think you've lost your tenner pal

I'll invade the pitch and do it myself if need be.

[jelgoon]

What makes you think Usamanov will come in. Cant see Kroenke selling up until the stadium debt has come down and his shares are worth even more. And then there is no guarantee at all that he wont either carry on or just sell to another foreign investor with no knowledge or interest in Arsenal. As for the stuff at the AGM about us being on an equal footing with other clubs in two years time, it was all shit. I was talking to a barrister mate of mine who reckons the fair play stuff is going to be challenged at some point in the European Court of Justice as it breaches free trade laws .That's why Chelski and Man CIty continue to be linked with £50million players.


Seriously though, for a gang that has planned this so thoroughly do you not think they have a contingency in place should such an unlikely string of events occur? Every year we have £30mill in the transfer "war chest" and every year we make a profit in the transfer market. The club must be awash with cash. A few rumours of a big name and a £30mill signing which would make zero odds in the grand scheme of things would be enough to get most of the rebel fans back on those seats and singing their guts out.

Gazidis has pretty much stated they need two more years to execute their plans. They've managed to keep this thing heading in the right direction for much longer than that so far. They will have planned the last couple of years very carefully because they would have known in advance that's when the squad would be most threadbare in terms of top flight talent. Hell, they might even get MORE fans turning up if it got nasty, just for the drama of it. The Glaziers and Ashley survived worse than I can ever envisage taking place at Arsenal.

If we were smart we'd be trying to put the pressure on Usmanov to let him know he'd better put his money where his mouth is when he comes in. No more bullshit like the last two regimes. Make it hot for him in advance because the current battle has been decisively lost. In fact it was never fought, it was a walkover.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think your barrister friend is getting a little bit confused - it doesn't restrict how much clubs can spend on transfers (especially if their income is already significant). They can spend as much as they want, like now, it's just that doing so within the coming years could result in bans or sanctions on UEFA's competitions; it's not going to stop them from competing however they want so far as the Premier League goes.

In any case, most clubs are agreeing to it (now that could be because they know it won't mean anything) but it's not going to be the case that it's never implemented.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Not if I kill us all first.

Better yet, take out the Board

N_Q :bow:

Sacrificial lamb :bow:

Martyr :bow:

Statue erected beside TH14 :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

What makes you think Usamanov will come in. Cant see Kroenke selling up until the stadium debt has come down and his shares are worth even more. And then there is no guarantee at all that he wont either carry on or just sell to another foreign investor with no knowledge or interest in Arsenal. As for the stuff at the AGM about us being on an equal footing with other clubs in two years time, it was all shit. I was talking to a barrister mate of mine who reckons the fair play stuff is going to be challenged at some point in the European Court of Justice as it breaches free trade laws .That's why Chelski and Man CIty continue to be linked with £50million players.

I doubt they are bothered about FFP, it'll be the renegotiated sponsorship deals they'll be most interested in. FFP has been a carrot they have dangled under our nose for ages but when you look at its terms it's more likely to restrict us than the chavs or city. It's a distraction and could also be a future excuse for them, something to hide behind and wring their claws.

Usmanov already has 30%, he's by far the most likely candidate for a future run at the trough. He could certainly make it difficult if they try to go around him. Kroenke hasn't put a penny into this club. This reveals his intention more than anything else.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think your barrister friend is getting a little bit confused - it doesn't restrict how much clubs can spend on transfers (especially if their income is already significant). They can spend as much as they want, like now, it's just that doing so within the coming years could result in bans or sanctions on UEFA's competitions; it's not going to stop them from competing however they want so far as the Premier League goes.

In any case, most clubs are agreeing to it (now that could be because they know it won't mean anything) but it's not going to be the case that it's never implemented.

This wage cap thing is more interesting. Like cement designed to keep the few at the top for good. Abramovich is the driver apparently. Nice to know he's finally looking out for the good of the game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Better yet, take out the Board

N_Q :bow:

Sacrificial lamb :bow:

Martyr :bow:

Statue erected beside TH14 :bow:

I was more thinking about killing everyone on GW. I don't really do much in the real world, it's mainly the Internet.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Better yet, take out the Board

N_Q :bow:

Sacrificial lamb :bow:

Martyr :bow:

Statue erected beside TH14 :bow:

:gp:

NQ Leader, Legend, Top poster. :bow:

[Gervinho's Forehead]

If NQ had a cult I would be a member :loveblush: :bow:

I'd even drink the Koolaide if he told me to.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Koolaide :bow:

The Yanky beverage that fucks up your teeth :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yanks :bow:

The fat bastards that keep fast food chains going :bow:

[GP]

Fast Food :bow:

Burger King :bow:

IHOP :bow:

in'n'out :bow:

Taco Bell :bow:

Diabetes :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

mrs letters :bow:

putting up with in'n'out since last sunday :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

All things American are awesome.

Never heard anyone who knows a thing about countries say a bad word about them.

[GP]

mrs letters :bow:

putting up with in'n'out since last sunday :bow:

Yeah but only one of each I would imagine.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

All things American are awesome.


Kim Kardashian :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yeah but only one of each I would imagine.

i think its more a case of in'n'straightout

[Marc Overmars]

Kim Kardashian :bow:

Splaff.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

British dentistry :bow:

No koolaide required :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

British dentistry :bow:

No koolaide required :bow:

Pretty much. They fuck up your teeth so you have to go back and pay more.

[jelgoon]

Hes not confused - neither am I. I wasnt saying that clubs will literally be restrained from transfer dealing but obviously if they are faced with a European ban they are not going to breach the rules, so its the same thing in practice. Already UEFA have backed down on certain sanctions after taking leagal advice; for example, proposals to impose player transfer embargos on clubs failing to meet the FFP rules have been dropped


I think your barrister friend is getting a little bit confused - it doesn't restrict how much clubs can spend on transfers (especially if their income is already significant). They can spend as much as they want, like now, it's just that doing so within the coming years could result in bans or sanctions on UEFA's competitions; it's not going to stop them from competing however they want so far as the Premier League goes.

In any case, most clubs are agreeing to it (now that could be because they know it won't mean anything) but it's not going to be the case that it's never implemented.

[Kano]

Hes not confused - neither am I. I wasnt saying that clubs will literally be restrained from transfer dealing but obviously if they are faced with a European ban they are not going to breach the rules, so its the same thing in practice. Already UEFA have backed down on certain sanctions after taking leagal advice; for example, proposals to impose player transfer embargos on clubs failing to meet the FFP rules have been dropped
The question is, why hasn't that claim been put in already, their legal teams have had long enough to weigh up the options. UEFA can pass the buck on transfer sanctions remember, as the regional FA's will all be onboard and can impose it themselves. Talks are well under way for some sort of system to be started here. remember, it will also ensure the door is closed to any other team injecting cash as some have done in the past decade, so clubs are not completely against the idea.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Better yet, take out the Board

N_Q :bow:

Sacrificial lamb :bow:

Martyr :bow:

Statue erected beside TH14 :bow:

:bow: yeah TH14 on his knees, NQ depicted with a smile on his face

NQ the only one on GW to be erected by TH14

[Özil's Panoramic View]

:bow: yeah TH14 on his knees, NQ depicted with a smile on his face

NQ the only one on GW to be erected by TH14

:haha:

:haha:

:haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:haha:

:haha:

:haha:

:gp:

NQ For Mod tbh, you know it makes sense, Cushty.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hes not confused - neither am I. I wasnt saying that clubs will literally be restrained from transfer dealing but obviously if they are faced with a European ban they are not going to breach the rules, so its the same thing in practice. Already UEFA have backed down on certain sanctions after taking leagal advice; for example, proposals to impose player transfer embargos on clubs failing to meet the FFP rules have been dropped

No it isn't tantamount to the same thing, what it's supposed to achieve is not neccesarily limit spending but make sure the clubs that do spend are earning year-on-year enough money so that their losses are decreasing each season. Plus when you consider the trebled TV deal for the Premier League and sure to be improved Champions League money, they're less likely to be posting increased losses anyway.

[Letters]

mrs letters :bow:

putting up with in'n'out since last sunday :bow:
S'true.
My cave doesn't have a door, you see
:coffee:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsene Wenger insists finishing in the top three remains his target this season, but accepts Arsenal are 'very far behind now' after defeat at Manchester United.

Arsenal's 2-1 reverse at Old Trafford on Saturday ensured the club have made the worst start to a Premier League season since Wenger took charge as manager and left them nine points adrift of United.

Qualifying for the UEFA Champions League is now likely to be the main challenge for the Gunners and Wenger wants his team to prove their credentials."We're very far behind now," said Wenger. "At the moment you cannot say that [we are good enough to challenge the top three], because we are far away.

"But that's what we have to show, and that's what the target is at the end of the season. We've played away at United, City, Liverpool and Stoke - so we've many difficult away games.

"But we were poor defensively here. There's no obvious reason for that, apart from the fact we didn't start well and United have quality up front.

"They score goals against everybody and they are better than us. It's as simple as that.

"Away to Manchester City we drew 1-1, a good result, and didn't suffer by comparison.

"Here, I just think we were not on full cylinders and looked much more vulnerable defensively than we did at the start of the season."http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8226555/Arsene-Wenger-still-targets-top-three-finish-for-Arsenal

Least he knows this lot is not good enough.

[LDG]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8226555/Arsene-Wenger-still-targets-top-three-finish-for-Arsenal

Least he knows this lot is not good enough.

Until we win our next game, and he will say "I believe in this team. They have shown quality. Can we do it? [ The Championship ] . We will fight, of course. Can you say we cannot, maffffmatically? I don't think so" #barkingmadlunatic

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Until we win our next game, and he will say "I believe in this team. They have shown quality. Can we do it? [ The Championship ] . We will fight, of course. Can you say we cannot, maffffmatically? I don't think so" #barkingmadlunatic

:lol:

Illusionary Challenging :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has told Andre Santos that he was not happy to see him swap shirts with Robin van Persie at half-time against Manchester United.

However, the French boss says he does not want to see the incident, which occurred during Saturday's 2-1 defeat at Old Trafford, blown out of proportion.

The Brazilian left-back counted Van Persie as a Gunners team-mate until the striker's acrimonious departure to United during the summer.

Santos endured a torrid time against the Red Devils and came under scrutiny for exchanging shirts with the Holland international at the break.Reports suggested Santos could be dropped from Tuesday night's UEFA Champions League tie at Schalke as a result but, while angry with the left-back, Wenger was keen to downplay the incident.

"I spoke about that but I don't want to make too much of a big story of that," said the Arsenal boss.

"I believe that was not the right thing to do at all, but that is not an explanation for our bad performance on Saturday."



http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8227499/Arsene-Wenger-disliked-Andre-Santos-half-time-shirt-swap-with-Robin-van-Persie

:popcorn:

[Syn]

WTF? Fuck off, Arsene. You led by example.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rily1nqIKro

[Cripps_orig]

Arsene Wenger has vowed to blank out unhappy Arsenal fans as he made a staunch defence of his managerial record.Full story: Daily Mirror:doh:

[Globalgunner]

More waffle from the deluded one

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/27/arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-everton


3rd last season was a brilliant trophy because 4th is the real target....."and if you see our balance sheet.....You will be amazed"

[LDG]

More waffle from the deluded one

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/27/arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-everton


3rd last season was a brilliant trophy because 4th is the real target....."and if you see our balance sheet.....You will be amazed"

Not much wrong with that, tbf.

[Joker]

"We don't give too much importance to those fans' reaction. Our job is somewhere else, on the football pitch."

He should, these away fans travel large distances to support the team, he should at least acknowledge that he understands why they were frustrated, even if he disagrees with them.

[LDG]

He should, these away fans travel large distances to support the team, he should at least acknowledge that he understands why they were frustrated, even if he disagrees with them.

He did before the AGM.

He said he wasn't racist against their frustration, or some other brilliant Wengerism.

Wenger :bow:

[Kano]

"That some fans are not happy when you play 0-0 at Aston Villa, I can understand because I am not happy.

"I want to win the game as well, but I do not share the fact that always the minority is presented like everyone thinks like them."
he doesn't help himself does he?

even in a riot, not everyone will loot or fight. the minority usually represent a larger issue.

[LDG]

Not really bothered about what he says. He's a football manager, and therefore I prefer to judge him on the pitch. It ain't good enough at the moment, full stop. That's what he's asked us to judge him on....

I'll judge ****s like Gazidis, Hill-Wood on their words, and twatty moustachio'd ****s by their lack of them.

[Marc Overmars]

Yep, it's not the board who are struggling to get the team to perform against even the weakest sides in the league. The board have their own questions to answer but only Wenget can sort out what's happening on the pitch. That's where he needs to be judged and I think we all agree its not good enough.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not much wrong with that, tbf.

Wumger :bow:

Best wum in the game tbh.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Wumger :bow:

Best wum in the game tbh.

Is he though? fergiefuck is probably better at that than him too.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Is he though? fergiefuck is probably better at that than him too.

Yeah but Wenger manges to wum even his own fans, tbh that has not beating.

Wumger :bow:

[LDG]

Yep, it's not the board who are struggling to get the team to perform against even the weakest sides in the league. The board have their own questions to answer but only Wenget can sort out what's happening on the pitch. That's where he needs to be judged and I think we all agree its not good enough.

I think he can sort it out too. He's a good enough manager. Problem is, I don't think he'll do it for himself. He's too stubborn.

There doesn't appear to be anyone he is accountable too from a footy perspective. Someone needs to give him a dressing down too....

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Yeah but Wenger manges to wum even his own fans, tbh that has not beating.

Wumger :bow:

I guess you're right when you put it that way.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think he can sort it out too. He's a good enough manager. Problem is, I don't think he'll do it for himself. He's too stubborn.

There doesn't appear to be anyone he is accountable too from a footy perspective. Someone needs to give him a dressing down too....

Zimm :pray:

Come on Zimm don't let us done mate.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I guess you're right when you put it that way.

Though you may have a point, he probably loose that 2, too a bigger **** like fergie.

4th place Wum trophy.

AW "ill only wum if i can find a TOP TOP TOP Super Super target".

Wumger :bow:

[Gervinho's Forehead]

I think he can sort it out too. He's a good enough manager. Problem is, I don't think he'll do it for himself. He's too stubborn.

There doesn't appear to be anyone he is accountable too from a footy perspective. Someone needs to give him a dressing down too....

What makes you believe he can turn it around? I'm not having a go, it's a genuine question. He's had more than long enough to prove himself and hasn't delivered in 7 years, 8 come May and each season is a repeat of the last with the same mistakes happening.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He should, these away fans travel large distances to support the team, he should at least acknowledge that he understands why they were frustrated, even if he disagrees with them.

Does he mean away fans per say or just the fans who abuse him, cos alot of home fans do too?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What makes you believe he can turn it around? I'm not having a go, it's a genuine question. He's had more than long enough to prove himself and hasn't delivered in 7 years, 8 come May and each season is a repeat of the last with the same mistakes happening.

Question, has he lost his ability to be a good manager, and finds it easier to hide behind being a sellout to the board. Cause maybe he feels that is easier to take.
Or is he a good manager who is stubborn, who has sold out to his employers rather then sticking up for the fans and helps take them for mugs.

[Marc Overmars]

I think he can sort it out too. He's a good enough manager. Problem is, I don't think he'll do it for himself. He's too stubborn.

There doesn't appear to be anyone he is accountable too from a footy perspective. Someone needs to give him a dressing down too....

He's more than good enough but he's got far too much pride to admit things aren't working as effectively as he'd like. He's been flogging a dead horse for years now, it doesn't matter who we buy because he wants to play in a certain way and sees no other option. Too many players in recent years have spoken about having to adapt to unfamilar roles, that's got to tell you something.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's more than good enough but he's got far too much pride to admit things aren't working as effectively as he'd like. He's been flogging a dead horse for years now, it doesn't matter who we buy because he wants to play in a certain way and sees no other option. Too many players in recent years have spoken about having to adapt to unfamilar roles, that's got to tell you something.

Agree. He is still a good manager, but that Arsenal and Arsene Wenger love affair for me needs to end, both need new challenges. I think Wenger needs to go somewhere, that motivates him again. We need freshness as well.

[LDG]

I want him to stay.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Agree. He is still a good manager, but that Arsenal and Arsene Wenger love affair for me needs to end, both need new challenges. I think Wenger needs to go somewhere, that motivates him again. We need freshness as well.

Agreed.

Klopp for "freshness". :scarf:

[Özim]

You can't really blame some of the substitutions and tactics on stubborness, those are down to incompetence...stubborness is sticking with something that doesn't work, incompetence is making strange decisions and doing things that don't make sense.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You can't really blame some of the substitutions and tactics on stubborness, those are down to incompetence...stubborness is sticking with something that doesn't work, incompetence is making strange decisions and doing things that don't make sense.

Arsene likes to play tippy tappy and won't change it, down is down to stubborness, nothing to do with being incompetent.


stubborness is sticking with something that doesn't work

Yes like keep playing 433, or won't or keep playing Ramsey cause you think he will make the diffrence, thats all being stubborn. Subs your right that is down to incopetence.

[-Xs-]

You can't really blame some of the substitutions and tactics on stubborness, those are down to incompetence...stubborness is sticking with something that doesn't work, incompetence is making strange decisions and doing things that don't make sense.

And isn't it a sign of insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?

[selassie]

Well I personally think that it's a combination of stubborness and imcompetance with Wenger. I think we all know where the problems lie, the glaring ones anyway

hit and miss transfer policy
mismanaged squad
mismanaged wage structure
lack of defensive strategy
over reliance on crocked players, not 1 or 2, a handful of them.
misguided faith in players

A lot of the above are personal choices, not enforced ones and that is down to one man.

[Niall_Quinn]

The board - at fault (and legalised thieves and wreckers)
The manager - at fault.
The players - at fault.

I just wonder how difficult it is to motivate a kid who already has everything by the age of 22? More money than he knows what to do with, fawning fans, fawning media - is this why the standard of the game is dropping in general and so rapidly?

All I know is I have to fight every fucking month just to keep a roof over the families head. It's not about mindset or confidence or motivation or any of that shit for me and millions of others like me. It's about get it done or get the fuck out on the street, starve and freeze to death. Therefore the motivation comes for free, without a thought. It makes you hard as nails and it ensures you win a personal battle and the survival championship every fucking month, never mind once a year.

It makes me wonder what sort of a person I'd be if somebody came and dumped multiple millions of quid in my lap and spent the whole day telling me I was wonderful. There's a strong chance I'd grow fat, complacent, lazy and entitled. Who does that sound like? We actually have overweight players on our team, players who can't be bothered to get in shape. Players who are constantly hitting the media to tell everyone even more about themselves and how they aren't getting the love.

Then you hold out a tin pot and say do it for this, for a summer's bragging rights. When they were getting fifty quid a week and spending it down the pub with the fans then that's a lot to brag about. But now they are detached from the fans completely and earn enough money in a week to sort them for the year, how important are those pots? Or the traditions of a club? Or the support of the fans?

I know I couldn't manage a club because I'd murder all the players. This sport isn't the same thing we grew up with. It's not about the fight any more, or the pride or the tribal competition. It's all about the money. And money makes everything lazy and shit. Shit football, shit companies, shit politicians, shit everything when it's all about the money. Look around you and find something good, and by good I don't mean some chav celebrating the latest purchase.

In fact even the chavs are learning as they watch their hated foe Benitez lining up in blue. In better times you couldn't do that shit, nobody would stand for it. But now the money makes sense for the very few parties who actually have an interest. You have a manager who claims to be proud of his achievements, a european champion, whoring himself for a year as a stop gap. It's low.

The real way to get our Arsenal back and for the chavs to get their Chelsea back is for this poxy league to collapse in a steaming pile of debt. Then the money seekers will run away and leave it to the people who genuinely love this game to rebuild from the ashes. Then we'll have football again, where the managers, players and fans are hungry as fuck and striving with every sinew. Until then you'll get games like the gypos vs the chavs and us vs Villa, terrible parodies of football but with a pack of lying ****s hovering around screeching - what a game, magnificent, look at the emperor's fine clothes, best league in the world, give us your fucking money!

[Power n Glory]

I just wonder how difficult it is to motivate a kid who already has everything by the age of 22? More money than he knows what to do with, fawning fans, fawning media - is this why the standard of the game is dropping in general and so rapidly?

All I know is I have to fight every fucking month just to keep a roof over the families head. It's not about mindset or confidence or motivation or any of that shit for me and millions of others like me. It's about get it done or get the fuck out on the street, starve and freeze to death. Therefore the motivation comes for free, without a thought. It makes you hard as nails and it ensures you win a personal battle and the survival championship every fucking month, never mind once a year.
A bit one dimensional don't you think?

What kept Steve Jobs motivated? Same goes for guys like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates? Some of the richest men on the planet and they could have stopped working years ago. Same goes for some of the best muscians, actors and other succesful people under the spotlight?

The difference is, they get paid to do what they love doing and it's not just a job for them. That's the difference. If the average person had a choice about what they did for a living, they wouldn't be doing the normal every day shit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A bit one dimensional don't you think?

What kept Steve Jobs motivated? Same goes for guys like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates? Some of the richest men on the planet and they could have stopped working years ago. Same goes for some of the best muscians, actors and other succesful people under the spotlight?

The difference is, they get paid to do what they love doing and it's not just a job for them. That's the difference. If the average person had a choice about what they did for a living, they wouldn't be doing the normal every day shit.

I honestly don't see how you can compare those examples to a bunch of twenty something footballers who are rewarded before rather than after they have achieved the fruits of their labour.



Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Joker]

There are many top players who don't seem to lack motivation despite being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds per week. If we have overweight players in the team then that's their individual responsibility.

And you seem to be advocating a return to a system where everyone has to fight to keep a roof over their heads and make ends meet, just so that the motivation for hard work and graft is stronger. That would be a regressive move, and would undermine all the advancements in labour rights over the last 2 centuries.

[Niall_Quinn]

There are many top players who don't seem to lack motivation despite being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds per week. If we have overweight players in the team then that's their individual responsibility.

And you seem to be advocating a return to a system where everyone has to fight to keep a roof over their heads and make ends meet, just so that the motivation for hard work and graft is stronger. That would be a regressive move, and would undermine all the advancements in labour rights over the last 2 centuries.

What?

[Niall_Quinn]

A bit one dimensional don't you think?

What kept Steve Jobs motivated? Same goes for guys like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates? Some of the richest men on the planet and they could have stopped working years ago. Same goes for some of the best muscians, actors and other succesful people under the spotlight?

The difference is, they get paid to do what they love doing and it's not just a job for them. That's the difference. If the average person had a choice about what they did for a living, they wouldn't be doing the normal every day shit.

What?

[Power n Glory]

I honestly don't see how you can compare those examples to a bunch of twenty something footballers who are rewarded before rather than after they have achieved the fruits of their labour.



Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

but the difference is, people like steve jobs etc spend years working up to the top, they dont have it on a plate by age 22, they know what hard work is and how long it took them to get to the top so keep motivation.

the 22 year olds who have taken 4 years getting paid millions dont know what hard work is because they havnt done it as long, its taken them two years instead of 20 years

[Xhaka Can’t]

You're right because it's ludicrous to compare an average every day job to something you love and would do in your spare time. Talking about the average person finding the motivation to work...it's off the scale and skewed. This money is the root of all evil perspective NQ has is off the mark IMO. Plenty of successful people out there still find the motivation to do what they enjoy despite the money.

I used to play football with guys that would turn up every week to play or every day, loved the game but when things go wrong on the pitch, they lose confidence which often looks like a lack of motivation.

You could not be more wrong.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Power n Glory]

You could not be more wrong.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Explain? Why hasn't guys like Ronaldo and Messi been ruined by the game when regarded as the best worldwide and paid more than the majority of their peers?

It's a sweeping generalisation NQ is making.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Explain? Why hasn't guys like Ronaldo and Messi been ruined by the game when regarded as the best worldwide and paid more than the majority of their peers?

It's a sweeping generalisation NQ is making.

No it is not. You just seem to be unwilling or unable to grasp a simple concept. The concept being that there are a crapload of early twenty something footballers being paid vast sums as if they have achieved something before they ever have and the effect this has over an increasingly large number of them.

Comparing a group of twenty something overpaid kids to the sample of people who were rewarded as a result of achievement in your earlier post was ridiculous.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Power n Glory]

No it is not. You just seem to be unwilling or unable to grasp a simple concept. The concept being that there are a crapload of early twenty something footballers being paid vast sums as if they have achieved something before they ever have and the effect this has over an increasingly large number of them.

Comparing a group of twenty something overpaid kids to the sample of people who were rewarded as a result of achievement in your earlier post was ridiculous.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


It's a sweeping generalisation. What about the Man Utd players or Chelsea under Mouronho? We don't even have to look that far away. Jack Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenkinson...Will they stop working hard as they earn more?

Even the kids that are in our team on the lowest of salaries get paid a handsome sum compared to what the average joe earns. It's a bad comparison.

I understand what's being said and think it's simplistic. Put some of these players in different squads and you'd see a different outcome.

Edit: I'll elobarate on this point. If our young players were unmotivated to play they'd be just as happy to pick up a check as bench players. But as delusional as a guy like Bendtner is, he's not content as a bench player and wants first team football and the same goes for a lot of our young players. Also, I don't think money makes a difference to a players developement unless he's always been lazy and unmotivated. Bendtner will always be an average player regardless of what he's paid because he doesn't have the tools in his locker to be an elite player. Overpaying average players is a problem because they're just average. For example, Ramsey isn't a lazy player. He is just shit and whatever he's paid won't change a bit of difference to his level of play. I'm not saying it can't happen and players won't get complacent, but if hit that stage, they wouldn't make it on the pitch because these are the type of guys that won't turn up to training or always turn up late. Wenger doesn't reward players with games if they have that sort of bad attitude.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a sweeping generalisation. What about the Man Utd players or Chelsea under Mouronho? We don't even have to look that far away. Jack Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenkinson...Will they stop working hard as they earn more?

Even the kids that are in our team on the lowest of salaries get paid a handsome sum compared to what the average joe earns. It's a bad comparison.

I understand what's being said and think it's simplistic. Put some of these players in different squads and you'd see a different outcome.

You don't understand what's being said. Nobody said it's impossible to be motivated if you are well paid. I said it's a hell of a lot easier to be motivated when life is not served out on a plate. I'm talking about super high salary players not being able to pass a ball. Or put in a cross. What do they have to lose by not going the extra mile these days? Fuck all, they have already made it for life by the time they hit their twenties. The old argument of football being a short career with the earnings having to last a lifetime is dead and buried, some of them can set themselves up for life in a single season.

Why aren't they running through brick walls any more? Why do they feel it is acceptable to serve up shite? Okay, if the manager gets it wrong then that makes it harder. Of course it does. But the initial debate in this thread was discussing just the board and just the manager. I think players should get roped into the analysis too. Fucking Sagna - the guy can't cross a ball to save his life. WHY NOT? Why can't he do that? It's not acceptable. No manager and no board can legislate for that level of shitness in a key area of the game. And you could single out any of them and wonder the same.

Why does the team falter when the pressure is on? Simply because of the manager and that's it? Do you think he drills them in how to collapse? How to drop their heads when the battle heats up? Odd he didn't have that problem in years gone. We say that's because we had leaders on the pitch, players of character. So what happened to the leaders? What happened to the characters? Why have they disappeared? Because of Wenger? That's it? 100%? I don't think so.

[Power n Glory]

Then why aren't our young players content as bench players?

Also, do you think players on less will develop into better players? Bendy wasn't always on £50k a week but he wasn't setting the world on fire when on less either.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: steve jobs

these threads get better by the day.

[GP]

:lol: steve jobs

It's funny cos he's dead

[Niall_Quinn]

Then why aren't our young players content as bench players?

Also, do you think players on less will develop into better players? Bendy wasn't always on £50k a week but he wasn't setting the world on fire when on less either.

Because I didn't say the players were devoid of motivation. I said motivation is easier to come by when life isn't handed to you on a plate. And yes, it's a generalisation, you have to generalise when talking about football as a whole. Naturally there will be variation on an individual level, but I still wonder why a £50k player finds it so hard to pass a ball or pit in a cross, fight when the going gets tough.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's funny cos he's dead

I don't think he really is dead. I think he faked his death and is probably hiding out on his island.

With Michael Jackson.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's funny cos he's dead

I don't think he really is dead. I think he faked his death and is probably hiding out on his island.

With Michael Jackson.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's funny cos he's dead

Almost as dead as Diaby.

[GP]

I believe it was a boking accident.

[gooners]

i boked a woman once :tiphat:

[Power n Glory]

Because I didn't say the players were devoid of motivation. I said motivation is easier to come by when life isn't handed to you on a plate. And yes, it's a generalisation, you have to generalise when talking about football as a whole. Naturally there will be variation on an individual level, but I still wonder why a £50k player finds it so hard to pass a ball or pit in a cross, fight when the going gets tough.

I get that you're trying to get the focus on the players responsibility as well but this isn't Wenger's first team that has had this sort of problem. We've had that same lack of fight in every team since the move away from Highbury.

Some players just aren't good at certain things and doesn't matter how much they are paid. Henry wasn't very good in the air and could miss sitters. Cole wasn't that great at crossing the ball either. But saying that, a lot of the players we buy are young and we coach them from a young age and if they can't do the basics and it's more than one player that has this problem and it spans over years and different teams, then there is something wrong at management level. He's either buying dud players or is unable to coach players to get to a better level. Maybe it's a bit of both.

I just wonder how players like Vela, Bendy, Denilson and Ramsey would turn out under someone like Fergie. He hardly ever produces teams that bottle it while Wenger does.

[Özim]

You don't understand what's being said. Nobody said it's impossible to be motivated if you are well paid. I said it's a hell of a lot easier to be motivated when life is not served out on a plate. I'm talking about super high salary players not being able to pass a ball. Or put in a cross. What do they have to lose by not going the extra mile these days? Fuck all, they have already made it for life by the time they hit their twenties. The old argument of football being a short career with the earnings having to last a lifetime is dead and buried, some of them can set themselves up for life in a single season.

Why aren't they running through brick walls any more? Why do they feel it is acceptable to serve up shite? Okay, if the manager gets it wrong then that makes it harder. Of course it does. But the initial debate in this thread was discussing just the board and just the manager. I think players should get roped into the analysis too. Fucking Sagna - the guy can't cross a ball to save his life. WHY NOT? Why can't he do that? It's not acceptable. No manager and no board can legislate for that level of shitness in a key area of the game. And you could single out any of them and wonder the same.

Why does the team falter when the pressure is on? Simply because of the manager and that's it? Do you think he drills them in how to collapse? How to drop their heads when the battle heats up? Odd he didn't have that problem in years gone. We say that's because we had leaders on the pitch, players of character. So what happened to the leaders? What happened to the characters? Why have they disappeared? Because of Wenger? That's it? 100%? I don't think so.
Everything you describe here can be sorted out by a top class manager, motivation, work rate, crossing, passing etc

Some players would have to be moved on as they're not good enough, but others could improve a lot with proper training, as for motivation much of that comes from the way the manager handles players.

If a player can't do something well, then you get him to practice a lot and he'll improve....our training/coaching is sh*t as has been shown in recent years.

[fakeyank]

Everything you describe here can be sorted out by a top class manager, motivation, work rate, crossing, passing etc

Some players would have to be moved on as they're not good enough, but others could improve a lot with proper training, as for motivation much of that comes from the way the manager handles players.

If a player can't do something well, then you get him to practice a lot and he'll improve....our training/coaching is sh*t as has been shown in recent years.

:gp:

[Gervinho's Forehead]

FUCK OFF ARSENE YOU'RE RUINING US!!!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

FUCK OFF ARSENE YOU'RE RUINING US!!!

The guy looks ill. Just hop he don't damage his health tbh. Even his post match interview seemd flat. Personally i think he'll step down at the end of the season, you can start to see the signs tbh.

Hope he does the right thing tbh, He needs the rest.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You don't understand what's being said. Nobody said it's impossible to be motivated if you are well paid. I said it's a hell of a lot easier to be motivated when life is not served out on a plate. I'm talking about super high salary players not being able to pass a ball. Or put in a cross. What do they have to lose by not going the extra mile these days? Fuck all, they have already made it for life by the time they hit their twenties. The old argument of football being a short career with the earnings having to last a lifetime is dead and buried, some of them can set themselves up for life in a single season.

Why aren't they running through brick walls any more? Why do they feel it is acceptable to serve up shite? Okay, if the manager gets it wrong then that makes it harder. Of course it does. But the initial debate in this thread was discussing just the board and just the manager. I think players should get roped into the analysis too. Fucking Sagna - the guy can't cross a ball to save his life. WHY NOT? Why can't he do that? It's not acceptable. No manager and no board can legislate for that level of shitness in a key area of the game. And you could single out any of them and wonder the same.

Why does the team falter when the pressure is on? Simply because of the manager and that's it? Do you think he drills them in how to collapse? How to drop their heads when the battle heats up? Odd he didn't have that problem in years gone. We say that's because we had leaders on the pitch, players of character. So what happened to the leaders? What happened to the characters? Why have they disappeared? Because of Wenger? That's it? 100%? I don't think so.

Spot on

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Because I didn't say the players were devoid of motivation. I said motivation is easier to come by when life isn't handed to you on a plate. And yes, it's a generalisation, you have to generalise when talking about football as a whole. Naturally there will be variation on an individual level, but I still wonder why a £50k player finds it so hard to pass a ball or pit in a cross, fight when the going gets tough.

Spot on. Seems like Footie is just a kick about to them, how they treat it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Everything you describe here can be sorted out by a top class manager, motivation, work rate, crossing, passing etc

Some players would have to be moved on as they're not good enough, but others could improve a lot with proper training, as for motivation much of that comes from the way the manager handles players.

If a player can't do something well, then you get him to practice a lot and he'll improve....our training/coaching is sh*t as has been shown in recent years.

Not even the best manager in the world could make this squad look world class, full of too much rubbish. Not even Jose or fergie good as they are could coach the shitness out of some and the lazyness out of the others.

[Özim]

Not even the best manager in the world could make this squad look world class, full of too much rubbish. Not even Jose or fergie good as they are could coach the shitness out of some and the lazyness out of the others.
Not world class, but he'd get rid of the dead wood and coach the others in the art of playing football as a team....and maybe get them to learn some of the basics.

The problems we have are due to poor signings, blind faith, poor coaching/training regimes, poor tactics and a manager unwilling to change anything for the good. A decent manager could get a whole lot more out of this team by making some basic changes.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not world class, but he'd get rid of the dead wood and coach the others in the art of playing football as a team....and maybe get them to learn some of the basics.

The problems we have are due to poor signings, blind faith, poor coaching/training regimes, poor tactics and a manager unwilling to change anything for the good. A decent manager could get a whole lot more out of this team by making some basic changes.

Sorry i thought you meant they'd get the best out of this sqaud. I agree with this post.

[-Xs-]

If the players are at fault, it's still Wenger who bought the players.

For example, if someone can't cross/pass/shoot/tackle, why did Wenger buy them in the first place? Surely he must have had the guy scouted for more than 5 mins before deciding to buy them. If he was a rough diamond with the view to getting his ability up to scratch by training, then why isn't it there yet? How much is poor coaching? How much is poor quality? How much is poor management to fail to realize that a player isn't making the grade after 3,4,5 years+ and should be moved on rather than offered a new contract?

Blame the players for being shit all you want, ultimately, its Wengers players, and the buck stops with him.

[Injury Time]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8712871/arsenal-arsene-wenger-decline

[Kano]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8712871/arsenal-arsene-wenger-decline
brilliant piece that

[Letters]

:good:

'Tis a very good piece.

[LDG]

Utterly brilliant article that.

Sums it up exactly!

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Found this on another forum

http://yfrog.com/scaled/landing/877/v7zxnp.jpg

[Letters]

What do you mean "another forum"?
:angry:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

:violin:

[GP]

That doesn't really make sense.

How will a captain abandoning a sinking ship help anything?

[KSE Comedy Club]

That doesn't really make sense.

How will a captain abandoning a sinking ship help anything?I agree.

That's a shit analogy/joke.

[Letters]

That doesn't really make sense.

How will a captain abandoning a sinking ship help anything?
Worked for the Costa Concordia.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Who said the ship necessarily represents the club?

Wenger would do well to abandon his failing/failed philosophy at this point in time. He would do well with a new ship carrying fresh ideas; one where he's a bit more tactical astute, especially where game plan, formation and substitutions are concerned.

[Injury Time]

Tbf ship is called "HMS Arsene Knows"

[LDG]

Who said the ship necessarily represents the club?

Wenger would do well to abandon his failing/failed philosophy at this point in time. He would do well with a new ship carrying fresh ideas; one where he's a bit more tactical astute, especially where game plan, formation and substitutions are concerned.

Like a dingy.

[GP]

Worked for the Costa Concordia.

Did it?

[Letters]

Did it?
No. No it didn't.

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER insists there is no rift between him and his assistant Steve Bould.
SunSport revealed yesterday that Arsenal’s stars fear their boss and his No2 are not communicating with each other.
It followed a humiliating defeat to League Two side Bradford City in the Capital One Cup on Tuesday — the latest low point in a poor start to their season.
Wenger has come out fighting however, and insists there is still plenty to fight for on their remaining three fronts.
He said: “We are a united staff team.
“What is important for us now is the future, how we do in the Premier League, the Champions League and FA Cup, not whether we are out of the Capital One Cup or not.
“We all look to the future.
“I believe we have a strong squad and it is up to them to show I am right.”
The long-serving Gunners boss, whose current deal runs until the summer of 2014, insists he is as hungry for success as ever.
He said: "My job is to be determined and give importance to what is important. What is important is I love football, I love this club and I give my best for this club. The rest, I cannot interfere with.
“Believe me, I am highly focused on doing that and all the rest, that doesn’t interfere with my thinking at all.
“I am very determined and very hungry and if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t sit in front of you.”
Wenger hopes Arsenal will provide a response when they head to struggling Reading on Monday night, aiming to close back up on the top four of the Premier League.
He said: "I believe it’s a good opportunity to show that we are strong inside the club and let people talk.
“We are criticised when our results are not good, we have to take that on the chin. That we have to face a lot of lies is less acceptable.”
Wenger added: “We are top professional people. What is important is what happens tomorrow, not what happened yesterday.
“We are sorry for that (the Bradford loss), but what is important is the next game. The squad should just focus on the next game.”
Arsenal should have striker Olivier Giroud in contention again following a back problem, while defender Laurent Koscielny has resumed training after his thigh injury.
England winger Theo Walcott continues to be assessed as he recovers from a calf injury, while Wenger reported “slow progress” on the recovery of Abou Diaby, who has been out with a muscular problem since the end of September.
The Arsenal boss added: "I cannot give you any fixed date because we are a bit in no man’s land on that front.
“He is working, but we are waiting for him to come back. He is not ready.”


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4697529/Arsenal-Arsene-Wenger-defiant-over-Steve-Bould-rift-talk.html#ixzz2F2eTpvov:haha:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I love this club and I give my best for this club.

I wouldn't actually questing Wengy's passion or committment to the club, i think unfortunately this passion and committment manifests itself in the wrong way so he comes across as Wenger the intransigent or Wenger the entrenched and any other colorful epiphet you'd like to apply to him.
I would question the passion and commitment of many of the players, they seem to allow themselves to live in the bubble their manager creates for them....none of them seem to want to take responsibility for their own performances and look like lost children on the pitch at times.

[Özim]

There's not too many players that drive a team or are self motivated, those that exist aren't at our club we got rid of them and never replace them....we're talking about players like Vieira, Adams, Yaya Toure, Roy Keane.....these kind of players do the work on the pitch form you, most players however need the manager to inspire them and get them playing...sadly our manager is unable to do this, he was lucky the likes of Adams and Vieira did it for him in the past, but sadly he's now no longer interested in signing these kind of players.

If you can't lead your team from the bench, then don't strip it of all it's leaders.

[Cripps_orig]

Read that Wenger has never won a trophy with a team where he has bought all the players

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jesus wept.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I never saw Vieira as a leader....he was a fantastic box to box midfielder whose passing and precision in the middle of the park was the vital cog in the Arsenal Engine (the last time we won a trophy was his last kick of a ball for us). But he wasn't a leader, he wasn't the type of player to rally those around him or lead by example....he was giving the captaincy as a quid pro quo agreement to stop him from sulking and looking to go elsewhere.

[Özim]

I disagree, he was a leader in the sense that he would put a hard tackle in win the ball and drive the team forward, perhaps not vocal like an Adams, but a hard aggressive tackle on someone does a lot to rouse the crowd and the players.

[Özim]

This kind of thing is the reason Wenger has gained the reputation for BS:


Arsenal: Theo Walcott contract talks to continue into new year

Theo Walcott's contract dispute with Arsenal is set to continue into the new year, despite Gunners boss Arsene Wenger issuing a Christmas deadline.

Walcott has so far rejected Arsenal's attempt to resume formal negotiations but talks are expected to resume.

The England forward, 23, could sign a pre-contract agreement with a foreign club from 1 January or join a Premier League side for free in the summer.

Liverpool, Chelsea, and both Manchester clubs have indicated an interest.

Wenger said he does not want Walcott to leave in the upcoming transfer window, even if that opens the possibility of him departing for nothing at the end of the season.

But the Frenchman made similar suggestions about Samir Nasri and Robin van Persie as they entered the final year of their contracts, only to see them sold to City and United respectively.

Liverpool are keen to recruit Walcott in January, Chelsea and City would rather wait until the summer - unless he is put up for sale in the new year - and United have asked to be kept informed.

City pursued Walcott last summer and had a bid rejected before the transfer window closed.

Walcott's preference is to stay with Arsenal if they meet his wage demands and offer him opportunities to play as a central striker having spent most of his Gunners career on the wing.

They are prepared to raise his salary from £60,000 a week to £75,000 a week, but the Southampton academy graduate is holding out for closer to £100,000 a week.

Walcott may choose to delay his decision until the summer, at which point he would know how the season had materialised for both himself and Arsenal.

But it is understood the main reason negotiations have not recommenced is the player's anger at being relegated to the substitutes' bench after he turned down the improved contract.

Although Walcott has started each of the last five matches he has been available for, earlier in the campaign he started just three of 13 matches when fit.

He is Arsenal's top scorer this season with 10 goals in 17 appearances and when asked on Friday if Walcott would be a part of the club's long-term future, Wenger replied: "I believe so, yes."

Arsenal signed the then 16-year-old Walcott from Southampton in 2006 for an initial £5m rising to £12.5. He has scored 30 goals in 161 league appearances for the club and has 30 caps for England.


26 September

"We want him to stay, I always said exactly the same. We are all professional and let's hope we can extend his deal. I speak to Theo of course, we are always in touch with them [his agent] and you have to give us some time to try and sort that out."

1 November

"There is urgency, how much I don't know, but there is urgency. We want to sort it out before Christmas, one way or the other. I would not like to [sell Walcott]. I have not even thought about that, because at the moment I think we will still manage to make a deal with him."

8 November

"My desire is to keep Theo. We do what is needed to keep him and hopefully we can sort this situation out very soon. Very soon is before the end of December one way or another, that is for sure."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20732920

You can't set a deadline (as he has many times in the past) and then change it because nothing is resolved, either don't set a deadline or stick to it.

We all know he's gone, let's at least set about signing a replacement, preferably not some unknown from the French league.

[Cripps_orig]

:lol: Wenger is a coward

[fakeyank]

I never saw Vieira as a leader....he was a fantastic box to box midfielder whose passing and precision in the middle of the park was the vital cog in the Arsenal Engine (the last time we won a trophy was his last kick of a ball for us). But he wasn't a leader, he wasn't the type of player to rally those around him or lead by example....he was giving the captaincy as a quid pro quo agreement to stop him from sulking and looking to go elsewhere.

Dont agree at all. I remember those good old days when we challenged Man Utd where he would go out of his way to not only protect his players but more importantly make an example by putting his body on the line. He wasnt vocal like Adams or 'Capi' :lol: but he was a brilliant captain!

[fakeyank]

Now that I mention Capi, I had to look this up: :haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IcjiCPmnwk

Last Arsenal team to play brilliant fast attacking football. Most heart breaking season :(

At least we were entertained then... its been a shower of cow dung since then. Not to forget, that was also the last season we played 4-4-2. Coincidence?

EDIT: Out of all those players, only Sagna is there. Says everything you need to know about our manager. And he says we are still challenging for CL, PL and FA cup. Fuck off you c*nt!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This kind of thing is the reason Wenger has gained the reputation for BS:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20732920

You can't set a deadline (as he has many times in the past) and then change it because nothing is resolved, either don't set a deadline or stick to it.

We all know he's gone, let's at least set about signing a replacement, preferably not some unknown from the French league.

Its common sense Theo is going you don't neen at article to say other wise. Wenger is hardly going to come out and say we are selling him in Jan, even though we know theo is going anyways.

[Syn]

Now that I mention Capi, I had to look this up: :haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IcjiCPmnwk

Last Arsenal team to play brilliant fast attacking football. Most heart breaking season :(

At least we were entertained then... its been a shower of cow dung since then. Not to forget, that was also the last season we played 4-4-2. Coincidence?

EDIT: Out of all those players, only Sagna is there. Says everything you need to know about our manager. And he says we are still challenging for CL, PL and FA cup. Fuck off you c*nt!

Rofl. We weren't even close to playing 4-4-2. The most successful spell - the one that got us flying in the table by Christmas with record points, was all under the most blatant 4-5-1 you'll see.

[fakeyank]

Rofl. We weren't even close to playing 4-4-2. The most successful spell - the one that got us flying in the table by Christmas with record points, was all under the most blatant 4-5-1 you'll see.

:lol:

I didnt mean to imply we played 4-4-2 the whole season in all matches home and away. What I meant was this was the last season we played 4-4-2 in a match ever.. remember matches where Adebayor and Eduardo played up front or when Cesc played behind Adebayor like Gerrard? Our last 'only 4-4-2' team was in 2006 in Highbury. We still played 4-5-1 in Europe and reached the final of the CL. That was the biggest hint to AW that we should play 4-5-1... look where we are now.

4-4-2 got us all the titles under Vinegar. 4-5-1 has got us shit.

[fakeyank]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4698675/Steven-Howard-Arsene-Wenger-is-in-denial.html

:lol:

He has gotten so desperate that he is throwing out false facts! :haha:

Wenger :rose:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

has he fucked off yet?

[Kano]

:lol:

I didnt mean to imply we played 4-4-2 the whole season in all matches home and away. What I meant was this was the last season we played 4-4-2 in a match ever.. remember matches where Adebayor and Eduardo played up front or when Cesc played behind Adebayor like Gerrard? Our last 'only 4-4-2' team was in 2006 in Highbury. We still played 4-5-1 in Europe and reached the final of the CL. That was the biggest hint to AW that we should play 4-5-1... look where we are now.

4-4-2 got us all the titles under Vinegar. 4-5-1 has got us shit.

eduardo started on the wide left in that brum game. that's how we set up all season. 4-5-1 until bendtner came on as his sub.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Now that I mention Capi, I had to look this up: :haha:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IcjiCPmnwk

Last Arsenal team to play brilliant fast attacking football. Most heart breaking season :(

At least we were entertained then... its been a shower of cow dung since then. Not to forget, that was also the last season we played 4-4-2. Coincidence?

EDIT: Out of all those players, only Sagna is there. Says everything you need to know about our manager. And he says we are still challenging for CL, PL and FA cup. Fuck off you c*nt!

how the fuck did wenger not win a trophy with that team? :lol:

and how we miss someone with gallas' voice in the dressing room today. who does all the talking now? gibbs? Lol

[Olivier's xmas twist]

how the fuck did wenger not win a trophy with that team? :lol:

and how we miss someone with gallas' voice in the dressing room today. who does all the talking now? gibbs? Lol

You mean Gallas, who cried in the middle of the pitch at the brum game?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

yeah, the gallas that showed a bit of fucking passion unlike these spineless bunch of cowards who pick up their wages and hit the clubs every night.

[Power n Glory]

There were games where we'd play two strikers up front. It was during Eduardo's short scoring spell between Prem games and Cup games. We played 4-5-1 for most games though.

I don't think it makes a difference on the formation. We can easily play a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 but it all depends on the balance of the squad and Wenger's squad selection. If continuted to play Gervinho up front and Ramsey and Podolski out wide in a 4-4-2 we'd still struggle.

I think we need to find a way to Arshavin playing in the hole, Giroud or Podolski playing up front, Rosicky has to play in the middle and maybe it's time to push Cazorla out wide left? I just hope we try something new because it's getting tedious. If a we line up with the same set up on Monday with slight variations, we're still going to struggle. We need some bold changes from Wenger to things flowing again.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Come on you must have laughed wgeb you wrote this bit.

wgeb :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

yeah, the gallas that showed a bit of fucking passion unlike these spineless bunch of cowards who pick up their wages and hit the clubs every night.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00441/William_Gallas_280x_441703a.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There were games where we'd play two strikers up front. It was during Eduardo's short scoring spell between Prem games and Cup games. We played 4-5-1 for most games though.

I don't think it makes a difference on the formation. We can easily play a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 but it all depends on the balance of the squad and Wenger's squad selection. If continuted to play Gervinho up front and Ramsey and Podolski out wide in a 4-4-2 we'd still struggle.

I think we need to find a way to Arshavin playing in the hole, Giroud or Podolski playing up front, Rosicky has to play in the middle and maybe it's time to push Cazorla out wide left? I just hope we try something new because it's getting tedious. If a we line up with the same set up on Monday with slight variations, we're still going to struggle. We need some bold changes from Wenger to things flowing again.

Im sure he'll be sold in Jan as his deal runs out end os the season.

[Özim]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00441/William_Gallas_280x_441703a.jpg

This is a coward.
How is that a coward?

The only thing he's guilty of is wanting to win to be honest, let's not forget he came from a club who won trophies to us so it's no surprise he was frustrated when we imploded.


Perhaps his sit down protest was il-advised but you can't argue he was desperate to win.